I think Hugareida inversion is much more of an XP-Sink, given it's opening up an entirely new tree of Tricks, and we need to think quite strategically about whether the added options are worth it. Fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times, and not 10,000 kicks, etc. etc.
That being said, I'm not totally averse to the idea, especially if there's a particular cool idea or ability it's in service of.
...We don't even know what the inverted forms of our other Hugareidas, but Inverted Ignition yields no tricks.
My main point against the Sword Idea is that we only have Sword 2 and if we invest in making it awesome it'll be a real bummer when we meet people with better Sword Hugareida (as we did against Rikard). Of course if we're willing to invest heavily in Sword, I'd point out that 36/72 exp in Sword Strike allows for us to basically double our attack speed by adding an Instant Sword Strike to our every move.
Would still be a huge bummer if we run up against someone with better Sword Hugareida.
Personally I'm more inclined to look at Fylgja 10 and Fylgja mods.
My main point against the Sword Idea is that we only have Sword 2 and if we invest in making it awesome it'll be a real bummer when we meet people with better Sword Hugareida (as we did against Rikard). Of course if we're willing to invest heavily in Sword, I'd point out that 36/72 exp in Sword Strike allows for us to basically double our attack speed by adding an Instant Sword Strike to our every move.
Notably, we can do this already at 8 Orthstirr a pop (9 if we use Sharpen)...for 25 attacks, that's only 200 Orthstirr (225 with Sharpen). We can afford that. Those do take dice, though, so that's a thing.
Until recently, that was probably not worth it because of low damage, but it might be more worth it on turns we invest heavily in the right shapeshifts...8 slots adding to damage make a lot of otherwise marginal attacks a lot better. That assumes Target-Tracking Eyes actually adds to damage and means we should be doing it on ranged turns rather than melee ones, but it's worth considering.
...We don't even know what the inverted forms of our other Hugareidas, but Inverted Ignition yields no tricks.
My main point against the Sword Idea is that we only have Sword 2 and if we invest in making it awesome it'll be a real bummer when we meet people with better Sword Hugareida (as we did against Rikard). Of course if we're willing to invest heavily in Sword, I'd point out that 36/72 exp in Sword Strike allows for us to basically double our attack speed by adding an Instant Sword Strike to our every move.
Would still be a huge bummer if we run up against someone with better Sword Hugareida.
Personally I'm more inclined to look at Fylgja 10 and Fylgja mods.
I think that Instant Sword Strike + Stoked Engage could be a pretty potent combo, especially if we don't need to neglect our defences and generally spend time choosing by having a choice over whether to do a Sword Guard or Sword Strike each turn. But yes, the ability for people to no-sell it is annoying.
I think that Instant Sword Strike + Stoked Engage could be a pretty potent combo, especially if we don't need to neglect our defences and generally spend time choosing by having a choice over whether to do a Sword Guard or Sword Strike each turn. But yes, the ability for people to no-sell it is annoying.
They also use different shapeshifts which is not great. But really, my point is that we can already do this. We don't need new Tricks for it, it's readily available to us when we want to do it. It's a tad pricey, but nothing unworkable on that end...the issues have more to do with how useful and practical it is, which is pretty variable and depends on the defenses enemies have.
They also use different shapeshifts which is not great. But really, my point is that we can already do this. We don't need new Tricks for it, it's readily available to us when we want to do it. It's a tad pricey, but nothing unworkable on that end...the issues have more to do with how useful and practical it is, which is pretty variable and depends on the defenses enemies have.
I think generally a major blocker for us using Sword Strike more often is that there's an awkwardness penalty as it means we have to not have Sword Guard active to do so. Plus once we've invested in Sword Guard, we aren't going to want to lose that sunk investment. (And Sword Guard is really, really useful.) Streamlining that should be helpful, and I think we can all broadly agree it would be good in principle?
I think generally a major blocker for us using Sword Strike more often is that there's an awkwardness penalty as it means we have to not have Sword Guard active to do so. Plus once we've invested in Sword Guard, we aren't going to want to lose that sunk investment. (And Sword Guard is really, really useful.) Streamlining that should be helpful, and I think we can all broadly agree it would be good in principle?
We can do both of those things simultaneously already. Only if we need multiple Guards is this ever an issue, and even then we can do some Atgeir Bodyguards instead of a second Sword Guard. It's just not actually a major obstacle in practice. People having better Sword Hugareida than us has been more of a problem. By a lot.
The big issue (other than people with better Sword, something Atgeir Strike may help with as we use it instead) is that a Sharpened Sword Strike follow-up attack does, like, 4d6 attacks for 3-4 damage for 9 Orthstirr which is pretty seriously inefficient. Now, with our new shapeshift-shuffling, if we can up that to 12 damage or so (or even 8 damage or so), that's suddenly a lot more viable, but that only became an option very recently...in fact, we have had zero actual rolled fights since hitting Hamr 10 (and getting Shapecrafting done).
We can do both of those things simultaneously already. Only if we need multiple Guards is this ever an issue, and even then we can do some Atgeir Bodyguards instead of a second Sword Guard. It's just not actually a major obstacle in practice. People having better Sword Hugareida than us has been more of a problem. By a lot.
The big issue (other than people with better Sword, something Atgeir Strike may help with as we use it instead) is that a Sharpened Sword Strike follow-up attack does, like, 4d6 attacks for 3-4 damage for 9 Orthstirr which is pretty seriously inefficient. Now, with our new shapeshift-shuffling, if we can up that to 12 damage or so (or even 8 damage or so), that's suddenly a lot more viable, but that only became an option very recently...in fact, we have had zero actual rolled fights since hitting Hamr 10 (and getting Shapecrafting done).
Multiple Guards are good to a point (if 3 Guards weren't enough I'm skeptical about 4+), but we can already throw out a bunch...whether they are Sword Guards is much less relevant (Atgeir Bodyguards are probably better, honestly).
And running people out of defenses require the attacks to be relevant, not something that they can ignore...Guards and DR alike rapidly make relatively pricey low die 3-4 damage attacks ignore-able, as do cheap Perfects. Those aren't completely universal, but they are common enough that it's a niche tactic.
And I'm pretty sure they don't. With an Alloy we can probably make them, but that runs into all the other problems just discussed.
I feel like that should in no way require Stoker State stuff...if we want a plasma sword, we should probably be able to do that with Sunfire alone. It's likely to be absurdly expensive and risky to use, though, however we go about it.
Haggar Worm follows in your wake as you open the door to Johannes' house. When you met the Frisian last, he was outside overseeing the tradeyards from the shade of a covered stand, so you didn't get a good look at his domicile. Now, though, that changes.
While the outside is a quaint sort of building with bark-covered pillars and thick, well-insulated walls, the inside of Johannes' house is as wealthy as the man himself. But rather than flaunt with gold and silver like so many other holders of fortune, Johannes chooses more subtle ways of showing off.
Rare items line the walls like tools line a workshop. Spiraling horns of pure-white ivory serve as wall sconces for flames of multicolored hues, casting the furniture in rainbow light. The hearth is lined with rocks of the deepest sea depths while the fire sits upon everlasting wood like a cat does a warming stone. A yawn escapes a lick of flame, giving away the truth of its nature as you walk into the room.
Johannes sits upon the high chair as is his right as lord of the house. The polished chair is wide and sturdy, able to support men of all shapes and sizes thanks to the iron reinforcements cleverly hidden at the core of the wood—a feature only a skilled a smith as you would be able to spot. Despite the apparent simplicity of the design, the mere fact that it sits at the head of a room as wealthy as this one means that it must have cost a fortune.
Swishing around a light green liquid in a crystal goblet made in the shape of a man's skull, Johannes watches with silent glee as you come to a stop before him. Surrounded by scattered stacks of paper and hundreds of debt stick halves, it seems you've caught the man in the middle of his taxes.
"Ah, Halla Sunshine," Johannes snaps his fingers, calling forth a servant to pour you and Haggar cups of the same drink as his, "please, have a seat and some this fine Ljosalfar wine, we have much to discuss."
Shrugging, you do just that as you slide out a chair and take up a drinking horn. Bringing it to your lips, you catch a whiff of mint before the liquid hits your tongue in a burst of fruity flavor. It tastes odd, to put it simply, fresh, minty, yet with an underlying weightlessness that hints at heights yet unrealized. You're not certain you like it all that much—the way Haggar's face screws up as he downs the liquid in one quick gulp says that he's of a similar mind—but you could probably get used to it if you had to.
Regardless, alcohol isn't why you're here. "I found the Sea-Snake," you nod towards the natural harbor upon which Hedeby sits, "and recovered it."
"I'd heard of your arrival," Johannes' lips peel back into a smile as he sips at his wine, "and I must say that I expected you back earlier, but," he shrugs, heavy, fat-laden shoulders rising in falling, "with the situation, I believe that that can be forgiven."
"Jotnar'll do that to you," Haggar grunts as he folds his arms, leaving the drinking horn sitting in its holder.
"Indeed they will," Johannes chuckles as he nods, eyes flicking back your way. "I imagine you've also found that thrall you were after, yes? Or, rather," he smiles, eyes twinkling with humor, "the ex-thrall that you were after."
You squint at the Frisian, lips tugging into a slight frown, "How'd you know I freed him?"
His smiles grows yet wider, "You have a certain reputation, Halla Sunshine, that of a woman of wealth with arms harder than steel, yet a heart softer than downy wool. You'd freed your Slavs, it didn't take much imagination to stretch that to the Latin-speaking thrall."
Your narrowed eyes turns to a flat stare. "I freed them on the ship, far away from Hedeby."
"Yes, yes you did." His smile doesn't waver for even a moment, nor do his eyes blink as he sips at his drink.
'This guy is dangerous,' Blackhand mutters as you find yourself agreeing, 'be careful with him.'
You could beat Johannes in a fight without breaking a sweat, no doubt about that, but that's not why he's dangerous. He knows things he shouldn't and he knows them far sooner than word of mouth. With the wealth he so obviously has, you wouldn't want to make any enemy of him—especially since, according to that book you read, Frisians can live for a good couple hundred years or so. Wouldn't want him making things difficult for your descendants.
Thanking Johannes for his time, you climb from the chair and exit his house with a frown on your face and a surprising weight to your shoulders.
Johannes paid you well for your task. Not in gold, jewels, or silver, no, he paid you in the scrip of the truly wealthy: information. He told you exactly what the world at large things of you, which is not so easy to learn from the backwoods of the Hading.
(+30 Orthstirr)
(New Feat: Johannes' Job! +3 Orthstirr a year!)
0~0~0
What do you do next?
[ ] It's time to go home
[ ] Look for people willing to buy and sell cargo
[ ] Mingle with the populace, see whose who in the city and surrounding lands
[ ] Listen to the local Skalds, learn what news there is in Denmark
[ ] Go to the Jarl's hall and greet him
[ ] Wander the roads, see what you can't find
[ ] Write in
0~0~0
If someone raises a good point for something to do, I'll change, but I think we just want to get back home.
Also, Deadman, one the way back what do you think about feeding Sagaseeker some Whalebone so that he can be even more blingy, and get some kind of boost if there is one for shifting his haft into whalebone instead of the wood it currently is?
I'm not heartbroken if we just go home, but I feel like we're leaving money on the table by not at least looking around...we have a few things we could sell, and a way to transport cargo.
"Indeed they will," Johannes chuckles as he nods, eyes flicking back your way. "I imagine you've also found that thrall you were after, yes? Or, rather," he smiles, eyes twinkling with humor, "the ex-thrall that you were after."
You squint at the Frisian, lips tugging into a slight frown, "How'd you know I freed him?"
His smiles grows yet wider, "You have a certain reputation, Halla Sunshine, that of a woman of wealth with arms harder than steel, yet a heart softer than downy wool. You'd freed your Slavs, it didn't take much imagination to stretch that to the Latin-speaking thrall."
Your narrowed eyes turns to a flat stare. "I freed them on the ship, far away from Hedeby."
"Yes, yes you did." His smile doesn't waver for even a moment, nor do his eyes blink as he sips at his drink.
'This guy is dangerous,' Blackhand mutters as you find yourself agreeing, 'be careful with him.'
You could beat Johannes in a fight without breaking a sweat, no doubt about that, but that's not why he's dangerous. He knows things he shouldn't and he knows them far sooner than word of mouth. With the wealth he so obviously has, you wouldn't want to make any enemy of him—especially since, according to that book you read, Frisians can live for a good couple hundred years or so. Wouldn't want him making things difficult for your descendants.
Thanking Johannes for his time, you climb from the chair and exit his house with a frown on your face and a surprising weight to your shoulders.
Johannes paid you well for your task. Not in gold, jewels, or silver, no, he paid you in the scrip of the truly wealthy: information. He told you exactly what the world at large things of you, which is not so easy to learn from the backwoods of the Hading.
Honestly, he could have chosen to be less vaguely menacing, seems a bit much given that we did him a favour. But it's certainly interesting to see how we're perceived by others. Sounds about right to be honest. Although I think the world of NorseQuest at large may not be banking on how much SV Questers will go into a murderous fury if someone gets between them and their shinies.
Multiple Guards are good to a point (if 3 Guards weren't enough I'm skeptical about 4+), but we can already throw out a bunch...whether they are Sword Guards is much less relevant (Atgeir Bodyguards are probably better, honestly).
And running people out of defenses require the attacks to be relevant, not something that they can ignore...Guards and DR alike rapidly make relatively pricey low die 3-4 damage attacks ignore-able, as do cheap Perfects. Those aren't completely universal, but they are common enough that it's a niche tactic.
And I'm pretty sure they don't. With an Alloy we can probably make them, but that runs into all the other problems just discussed.
I think that given the amount of damage we can layer on stuff, not to mention the idea of making them burning swords, we can make the swords do enough damage to be relevant. But also, I expect that a lot of times they're contributing to a fight scene, the actual damage value won't matter so much as the fact that there are a lot of attacks happening, as long as it's above a certain threshold.
Mostly, I think that having flying swords that fight for their wielder is kind of a Xianxia trope, and it would be cool if we had flaming swords that did the same thing.
Honestly, he could have chosen to be less vaguely menacing, seems a bit much given that we did him a favour. But it's certainly interesting to see how we're perceived by others. Sounds about right to be honest. Although I think the world of NorseQuest at large may not be banking on how much SV Questers will go into a murderous fury if someone gets between them and their shinies.
Or revenge. I think that reputation isn't wrong exactly, but it must be understood to be relative. Halla is a softy for a Norsewoman. She's still extremely murderous when provoked.
I think that given the amount of damage we can layer on stuff, not to mention the idea of making them burning swords, we can make the swords do enough damage to be relevant. But also, I expect that a lot of times they're contributing to a fight scene, the actual damage value won't matter so much as the fact that there are a lot of attacks happening, as long as it's above a certain threshold.
Mostly, I think that having flying swords that fight for their wielder is kind of a Xianxia trope, and it would be cool if we had flaming swords that did the same thing.
Right, but my point is that we can do that already. We couldn't very well before because of low damage, so we haven't, but with Hamr 10 and the shapecrafting, we now can. Like...we don't need extra stuff to do this, we can do it already. It was dicey pre-Hamr 10, but Hamr 10 lets us pull it off, no new Tricks needed (okay, maybe a flaming weapon Trick, that one's possible).
Huh. This is very interesting. From what IF has said before, lifespan is tied to percentage of the population that can cultivate, but Frisians are apparently all cultivators and also long lived (if, it sounds like, not nearly as much so as, say, Carolingians). I wonder what the price they pay for actually combining those two things is...
Right, but my point is that we can do that already. We couldn't very well before because of low damage, so we haven't, but with Hamr 10 and the shapecrafting, we now can. Like...we don't need extra stuff to do this, we can do it already. It was dicey pre-Hamr 10, but Hamr 10 lets us pull it off, no new Tricks needed (okay, maybe a flaming weapon Trick, that one's possible).
Yeah, but my point is we can do it a lot more seamlessly if we didn't have to choose between a Sword Guard and Sword Strike, and having them on fire will both look cool, be thematically appropriate, and probably free up shapeshifting slots we're rather put towards other things if it boosts damage. Honestly I don't get why this is controversial, it's obviously beneficial to the extent that it's possible, and likely not very expensive except in research actions that we regularly spend on lower-EV bets than this.
I'm not heartbroken if we just go home, but I feel like we're leaving money on the table by not at least looking around...we have a few things we could sell, and a way to transport cargo.
Yeah, but my point is we can do it a lot more seamlessly if we didn't have to choose between a Sword Guard and Sword Strike, and having them on fire will both look cool, be thematically appropriate, and probably free up shapeshifting slots we're rather put towards other things if it boosts damage. Honestly I don't get why this is controversial, it's obviously beneficial to the extent that it's possible, and likely not very expensive except in research actions that we regularly spend on lower-EV bets than this.
But we already don't actually have to pick in practice. We can already do those things simultaneously...we have two Instances on Sword, and three more on Atgeir (which can also be used for Guards). Like...you are suggesting we get a new ability to do something we can literally already do. That's why the objection.
The damage boost ('making weapons flaming') I'm actually on board with, at least potentially. It's the trying to get Sword Guards to also strike that is just...not actually very useful at all.
Also, Deadman, one the way back what do you think about feeding Sagaseeker some Whalebone so that he can be even more blingy, and get some kind of boost if there is one for shifting his haft into whalebone instead of the wood it currently is?
Feeding Sagaseeker Whalebone is fine for me. But they have already drinked the Blood of a Jotnar, and we still haven't seen its effects. We should study that first.
Also, Deadman, one the way back what do you think about feeding Sagaseeker some Whalebone so that he can be even more blingy, and get some kind of boost if there is one for shifting his haft into whalebone instead of the wood it currently is?
I think feeding him one unit of Whale Bone is potentially reasonable. We might want to ask him first, though, and we almost certainly need to wait for him to wake up (he's still in a food coma from the Jotun).
I think feeding him one unit of Whale Bone is potentially reasonable. We might want to ask him first, though, and we almost certainly need to wait for him to wake up (he's still in a food coma from the Jotun).
