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Starfleet Design Bureau

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Just blitzed both of these threads, loving it so far.

[X] Blister Forward Deflector (200,000 -> 220,000 Tons)

As noted by several others this feels like a good way to preserve space for SCIENCE! without too much scope creep.
 
[X] Inline Deflector (-Internal Space)

Given the sunk cost seems to be rearing it's head of 'let's inflate the mass of the most massive option so we can keep our options open to use all this mass we're paying a premium for' I'd rather just nip this in the bud. This thing never needed copious internal volume and paying more and more for the privilege is exactly what I wanted to avoid.
 
Karugus said:
[X] Inline Deflector (-Internal Space)

Given the sunk cost seems to be rearing it's head of 'let's inflate the mass of the most massive option so we can keep our options open to use all this mass we're paying a premium for' I'd rather just nip this in the bud. This thing never needed copious internal volume and paying more and more for the privilege is exactly what I wanted to avoid.
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You understand that this ship is going to be like 60% of the mass of the NX-class. You talk like we're building a science Thunderchild.
 
[X] Inline Deflector (-Internal Space)

Big Saucer gives us space to use on Stuff, this is Stuff, let's use the Big Saucer space.

Alternately,

[X] Engineering Section (200,000 -> 260,000 Tons, +Internal Space)

To lol yolo this design into being an Explorer instead of a mere survey ship. Let's make the Intrepid-class early!
 
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Jensaarai said:
"Something something, scope creep," I guess? That seems to be the new buzzword at least.
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Look at the past designs and past quest. How many times have we slapped all the prototypes onto a thing, even when strictly speaking it wasn't necessary, and caused issues? how many times have we made the biggest ship possible and then it didn't hammer out? Because there were at lest three times i can remember in past quest, and now that we have to not only design a thing but also keep the books balanced that means sometimes we can't give a ship the century or Galaxy class treatment and shove absolutely everything into it.

Feature creep isn't a buzzword so much as an attempt to verbally shorten that arguement so we can not only make good ships but lots of ships as well.


Endorfinator said:
You understand that this ship is going to be like 60% of the mass of the NX-class. You talk like we're building a science Thunderchild.
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You also realize this ship is going to cost as much as if not more than the Nx simply due to the fact this ship is a lot more complicated hosting a lot more complex components and we're designing it while our fleet is neutered do to the war and the losses, we took at Cheron while we're also down industry due to Romulans making a point to destroy our industrial base as much as possible? Like yes we'll catch back up sooner rather than later unless someone kicks us over, or some giant space anemone decides Earth is a good munchie, but we need new ships out there and our old ones do not cut it now. We were lucky that the Romulans didn't have many of the Vulcan peer ships otherwise we'd be hosed. Anyone else looking to pick a fight isn't going to swing at us with such archaic tech.
 
CuriousRaptor said:
Look at the past designs and past quest. How many times have we slapped all the prototypes onto a thing, even when strictly speaking it wasn't necessary, and caused issues? how many times have we made the biggest ship possible and then it didn't hammer out? Because there were at lest three times i can remember in past quest, and now that we have to not only design a thing but also keep the books balanced that means sometimes we can't give a ship the century or Galaxy class treatment and shove absolutely everything into it.

Feature creep isn't a buzzword so much as an attempt to verbally shorten that arguement so we can not only make good ships but lots of ships as well.




You also realize this ship is going to cost as much as if not more than the Nx simply due to the fact this ship is a lot more complicated hosting a lot more complex components and we're designing it while our fleet is neutered do to the war and the losses, we took at Cheron while we're also down industry due to Romulans making a point to destroy our industrial base as much as possible? Like yes we'll catch back up sooner rather than later unless someone kicks us over, or some giant space anemone decides Earth is a good munchie, but we need new ships out there and our old ones do not cut it now. We were lucky that the Romulans didn't have many of the Vulcan peer ships otherwise we'd be hosed. Anyone else looking to pick a fight isn't going to swing at us with such archaic tech.
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Slapping all the prototypes on this one was very much the plan from the start on the basis that for most of those things it was in the least trouble if they didn't pan out, to my understanding. It was a large part of why we went for the survey ship over the other options.

Edit: the idea being that then those other, bigger, more expensive ships doing riskier jobs would not be the ones running prototype everything and/or not benefitting from new tech.
 
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CuriousRaptor said:
Look at the past designs and past quest. How many times have we slapped all the prototypes onto a thing, even when strictly speaking it wasn't necessary, and caused issues? how many times have we made the biggest ship possible and then it didn't hammer out? Because there were at lest three times i can remember in past quest, and now that we have to not only design a thing but also keep the books balanced that means sometimes we can't give a ship the century or Galaxy class treatment and shove absolutely everything into it.

Feature creep isn't a buzzword so much as an attempt to verbally shorten that arguement so we can not only make good ships but lots of ships as well.
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Now I'm interested in what ships you think didn't work out. Because the only one I can really think of is the Reliant, and she tried to dethrone the Miranda, which is a goddamn beast.

But still, yeah sure, we've taken risks on some prototypes, and they haven't always panned out. But are you really going to try and say that we should be making the cheapest, most minimalist crap, just so we don't have to roll the dice? So the books can be balanced? Where's your sense of adventure? Of risk?

I think all the ships we've designed were awesome, big or small.
 
CuriousRaptor said:
Look at the past designs and past quest. How many times have we slapped all the prototypes onto a thing, even when strictly speaking it wasn't necessary, and caused issues? how many times have we made the biggest ship possible and then it didn't hammer out? Because there were at lest three times i can remember in past quest, and now that we have to not only design a thing but also keep the books balanced that means sometimes we can't give a ship the century or Galaxy class treatment and shove absolutely everything into it.

Feature creep isn't a buzzword so much as an attempt to verbally shorten that arguement so we can not only make good ships but lots of ships as well.




You also realize this ship is going to cost as much as if not more than the Nx simply due to the fact this ship is a lot more complicated hosting a lot more complex components and we're designing it while our fleet is neutered do to the war and the losses, we took at Cheron while we're also down industry due to Romulans making a point to destroy our industrial base as much as possible? Like yes we'll catch back up sooner rather than later unless someone kicks us over, or some giant space anemone decides Earth is a good munchie, but we need new ships out there and our old ones do not cut it now. We were lucky that the Romulans didn't have many of the Vulcan peer ships otherwise we'd be hosed. Anyone else looking to pick a fight isn't going to swing at us with such archaic tech.
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You all voted for the blister deflector option, so none of you even disagree about how much internal volume to leave in the ship for science and medicine and engineering. It seems like you are disagreeing about what prototype options to take on a vote that we don't have yet and therefore don't know what the tradeoffs are? This just all seems too hypothetical to be arguing about right now.
 
Jensaarai said:
Now I'm interested in what ships you think didn't work out. Because the only one I can really think of is the Reliant, and she tried to dethrone the Miranda, which is a goddamn beast.

But still, yeah sure, we've taken risks on some prototypes, and they haven't always panned out. But are you really going to try and say that we should be making the cheapest, most minimalist crap, just so we don't have to roll the dice? So the books can be balanced? Where's your sense of adventure? Of risk?

I think all the ships we've designed were awesome, big or small.
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I will say that in this quest at least, while nothing has outright failed, our tiny ships have done a bit better than the large ones.

I hope that in the preceding options after this deflector vote, there's a little blurb by Sayle explaining why each option could be useful on a Survey ship specifically (even if it doesn't turn out to be accurate). Would help us decide I think, and prevent some arguments if we know more or less why Starfleet 'thinks' the option would be useful on the type of ship we are making.
 
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