Magoose
SV's Questing Fanatic
- Location
- California USA
- Pronouns
- He
Yes...
It's just we may see more faction rolls and new actions.
-
Going forward, links to content from Twitter (now X) will no longer be embedded. Pre-existing links should not be affected.
A Reforged World (NO SV, You are King of Italy, in a Greatly Changed World)
- Thread starter Magoose
- Start date
- Original Alt. History
It's just we may see more faction rolls and new actions.
ThatGuyWithIdeas
Treize died for our sins
- Location
- Romania
[X] Plan Networking and Invention
Which leads to my point of Iron and Coal reserves being not as plentiful and in good quality in current Italy aside from Modern French Land of Savoy (Coal) and a small amount in Jura Mountains (Iron), The island of Elba (Iron), Corinth-Spartan region (More Toxic-fied Coal), some in Tuscany (Coal).
Why I made a point on that? How much can we feed to a rising industrializing Italy before we have to start importing more from different countries who'll start to be intrigued on what's going on.
Thus brings an interesting idea..an European Coal and Iron Trade Agreement. (During a Time like this? Unless we attempt a Napoleonic-styled Conquista on Europe, not going to happen).
Regal Cuddling
"All I ask. Don't force yourself on me."
"I won't. I won't until you are ready."
Not a day went by that Princess Isabella Hapsburg, or more accurately Queen Isabella Grazini as she often had to remind herself, didn't go without Isabella thinking of those words that marked the beginning of hers and Luciano's first night as spouses and monarchs.
She had asked what had been a rather childish wish, one that went against all the principles of royal marriages and would have seen her receive a firm slap, if not multiple from her Austrian tutors if she had shared such a desire before her marriage. The wedding night was supposed to be that of consummation, the creation of the heir. Even if the future Italian King were not conceived that night, it was still her duty to at least try.
However, Isabella was tired, weak, and fearful. Even with all the progress the Italian doctors had overseen, she was still a sickly girl who was not even twenty. Isabella had no idea if she would survive the birth of her first child, and she had long ago accepted death in the birthing bed as a likely path for her in life.
It was only thanks to the naivety and surprising empathy from Luciano that she had dared to ask a question. Luciano could have rejected and it would have been his right as King. Isabella did expect him to break his word, he was a young man after all and she a beautiful women. Yet King Luciano the Magnanimous had earned his reputation by being more noble than all the Knights of Europe and honoring her request. They did not touch that night save for the brushing of skin when they laid in bed together and a surprising chaste kiss by Luciano which accompanied a promise to make this marriage work.
In the weeks afterwards, Luciano had honored her request further by setting up her own chambers and never once advancing on Isabella in lust. It was not as if Luciano was a sodomist, for Isabella observed the looks of attraction he gave to other women and her, even if Luciano thought himself rather clever in how he hid it. Yet he never once advanced on her, all because she asked it.
It was a nice state of affairs, allowing Isabella to continue to strengthen her health and adapt to her new role of Queen than be solely concerned about babymaking. Yet as pleasant as such a state of affairs was, Isabella could not continue with her selfishness. With each passing weeks, Isabella heard more whispers in the court. Gossiping about why the King and Queen barely shared any physical interest, how they never shared a bed, how she showed no signs of lost virginity. As both the foreigner and the woman, most rumors were focused on slanders towards Isabella. How she was barren, had a secret lover, or had no interest in men. Even if Isabella wasn't ready, she had to at least give the appearance of working for an heir so that she could be accepted as Queen of Italy.
One night, Luciano arrived at his chambers with a heavy yawn, then stopping at his door as he found his wife in his bed, with Isabella bundled under four layers of blankets and reading a book.
"What are you doing?" Luciano asked. Isabella flinched with the expectation of a scolding, but then she realized Luciano's tone was more of curiosity and amusement.
Isabella lowered her book with a sigh, "As honorable as you have been, I have to at least spend the night in your chambers to give the appearance of copulation, for both our reputations." She informed.
"Ah." Luciano simply said, then moved to sit on the edge of the bed, the two spouses staring away from each other in awkward silence. "Do you....wish for me to-"
"No!" Isabella said in reactive alarm, then curled up and away from her husband in shame. Once again he was asking for her desire and command. Him the King, asking for what should be rightfully his.
"I will someday, soon. I just...need more time. Until then, we have to at least show the court we're trying." Isabella argued.
Isabella turned back, expecting, almost wanting Luciano to be enraged and angry at her. Instead he simply smiled softly at her in understanding, "As you wish." Luciano then moved to a nearby desk, lit a candle, and began writing in one of his large books he had writing around, leaving Isabella to stew in confusion, gratitude and frustration.
For the next month they spent half the days together in Luciano's chambers, with Luciano sometimes being as bold as to venture to Isabella's. As they were not even close enough to be friends, the days spent together were quiet with little direct interaction. Yet in spite of the lack of intimacy, Isabella found herself enjoying these shared times. Luciano respected her boundaries and in return she respected his work or studies. During these nights, there was no obligation from either to perform as King and Queen, or even husband and wife. They were simply too young souls living in comfortable silence, left to be whatever they wanted in their brief respite from the demanding and burdensome world. There were even some nights where they would engage in conversation and Isabella found herself enjoying these talks, where she was spoken to as an equal with a valuable opinion instead of as a tool of her family.
With their time together, the rumors while not completely fading, had subsided and the court slowly started to embrace her as the Queen. Isabella could have well stopped by that point, but she still made sure to at least spend a few days per week in Luciano's chambers, enjoying the peace, though at the same time yearning for more, even if she didn't want to admit it.
One night, Isabella had been bedridden with a drastic drop in composition. Her body combined with a cold front made it feel as if it were winter, and even a fully lit fireplace could not heal her weak spirit.
Delirious and exhausted, Isabella shivered under a pile of blankets, praying for the pain to go away. Too fatigued, Isabella did not notice a visitor in her chambers. In her dazed state, Isabella briefly observed the figure of Luciano, and would have ignored his entrance were it not for him climbing into her bed and wrapping his arms her.
At the touch, Isabella shrieked and thrashed in startlement, believing Luciano to have shown his true colors and that her destined fate as the Queen was to come. Yet instead of ravishing her, Luciano simply held onto her, hands never straying in a lustful manner.
Finally, Isabella managed to push him away, yet only for a brief foot and more out of Luciano's lack of resistance than any strength on her part. "What are you doing?!" She demanded.
"Keeping you warm." Luciano simply answered.
"How?! Could you simply not fetch me another blanket or quilt!" Isabella demanded.
Luciano frowned, "If you add more layers you will be suffocated to death and the fire is burning at full strength. The maids informed me you were heavily ill, and with all of this failing, I thought I could help, however I could."
"Why would that be your course of action?" Isabella questioned.
Luciano's face then fell in mourning, "Cause it was what my mother did when I was ill, and it always made me feel better."
At the explanation, Isabella immediately calmed down and felt great guilt, even if her reaction was justifiable for having felt that she was under attack. She recalled in her education before journeying to Rome how Luciano Grazini was not born a royal, or even noble for he had been a commoner born to artisan parents, parents who if the stories were true he loved deeply only to have them be taken by paranoid nobles in assassination.
Isabella may have had the best pedigree in the world, but she did not grow up in a house of love. Her mother was practically a stranger, often kept in confinement or traveling away from her, whispered to be mad with Isabella keeping distance for fear of infection. Her father was mostly in Spain and when Isabella did see him, she was in return treated with gifts and furthered as a tool.
From just one look at Luciano, she knew that however brief his time with his parents were, that he had been loved and he loved them in return. To honor their memory and share a form of love, Luciano had attempted to treat her with such kindness, and she pushed him away.
Touched by the gesture, confused by his character, her body aching for warmth, and somewhat wanting such a close touch. Isabella tiredly scooted closer towards Luciano, eyes looking downward.
Conflicted by the body language, Luciano slowly wrapped his arms once more, a brief nod from Isabella confirming the consent to continue forward until they were fully embraced, the closest they had been since saying their vows.
"Sleep well my Queen." Luciano whispered, which she soon did. While it was not immediate, Isabella did feel the cold begin to drift away as they were together, and when she awoke, still held in her husband's muscular arms, she felt not a drop of illness remaining in her body, simply warmth and comfort.
For nearly two weeks they did not share the same quarters, an awkward impasse being placed between the King and Queen on what that night meant and where they would go from there. However, at the same time it did feel like some great gap had been closed somewhat, and displays of warmth and affection which were previously rare grew to become daily occurrences in small and private ways.
Eventually, Luciano returned to his chambers to find Isabella retired, greeting at him with a tired smile. Happy that their marriage had returned to normal, Luciano smiled back and concluded his day with letters. Then retired to his bed and found himself surprised when Isabella moved to be closer to him and initiate an embrace of her own.
"I'm cold and I need warmth." Isabella simply explained, yet Luciano remembered that she had only resided with two covers of blankets and had a thin layer of nightwear, not to mention the Roman night itself was rather warm.
Covering her forehead with his palm, Luciano could not detect anything besides a warm temperature, but he did not see the point or desire of challenging her claim, simply returning her embrace and the two sleeping together, with Isabella continuing to be "Cold" for many nights to come.
"All I ask. Don't force yourself on me."
"I won't. I won't until you are ready."
Not a day went by that Princess Isabella Hapsburg, or more accurately Queen Isabella Grazini as she often had to remind herself, didn't go without Isabella thinking of those words that marked the beginning of hers and Luciano's first night as spouses and monarchs.
She had asked what had been a rather childish wish, one that went against all the principles of royal marriages and would have seen her receive a firm slap, if not multiple from her Austrian tutors if she had shared such a desire before her marriage. The wedding night was supposed to be that of consummation, the creation of the heir. Even if the future Italian King were not conceived that night, it was still her duty to at least try.
However, Isabella was tired, weak, and fearful. Even with all the progress the Italian doctors had overseen, she was still a sickly girl who was not even twenty. Isabella had no idea if she would survive the birth of her first child, and she had long ago accepted death in the birthing bed as a likely path for her in life.
It was only thanks to the naivety and surprising empathy from Luciano that she had dared to ask a question. Luciano could have rejected and it would have been his right as King. Isabella did expect him to break his word, he was a young man after all and she a beautiful women. Yet King Luciano the Magnanimous had earned his reputation by being more noble than all the Knights of Europe and honoring her request. They did not touch that night save for the brushing of skin when they laid in bed together and a surprising chaste kiss by Luciano which accompanied a promise to make this marriage work.
In the weeks afterwards, Luciano had honored her request further by setting up her own chambers and never once advancing on Isabella in lust. It was not as if Luciano was a sodomist, for Isabella observed the looks of attraction he gave to other women and her, even if Luciano thought himself rather clever in how he hid it. Yet he never once advanced on her, all because she asked it.
It was a nice state of affairs, allowing Isabella to continue to strengthen her health and adapt to her new role of Queen than be solely concerned about babymaking. Yet as pleasant as such a state of affairs was, Isabella could not continue with her selfishness. With each passing weeks, Isabella heard more whispers in the court. Gossiping about why the King and Queen barely shared any physical interest, how they never shared a bed, how she showed no signs of lost virginity. As both the foreigner and the woman, most rumors were focused on slanders towards Isabella. How she was barren, had a secret lover, or had no interest in men. Even if Isabella wasn't ready, she had to at least give the appearance of working for an heir so that she could be accepted as Queen of Italy.
One night, Luciano arrived at his chambers with a heavy yawn, then stopping at his door as he found his wife in his bed, with Isabella bundled under four layers of blankets and reading a book.
"What are you doing?" Luciano asked. Isabella flinched with the expectation of a scolding, but then she realized Luciano's tone was more of curiosity and amusement.
Isabella lowered her book with a sigh, "As honorable as you have been, I have to at least spend the night in your chambers to give the appearance of copulation, for both our reputations." She informed.
"Ah." Luciano simply said, then moved to sit on the edge of the bed, the two spouses staring away from each other in awkward silence. "Do you....wish for me to-"
"No!" Isabella said in reactive alarm, then curled up and away from her husband in shame. Once again he was asking for her desire and command. Him the King, asking for what should be rightfully his.
"I will someday, soon. I just...need more time. Until then, we have to at least show the court we're trying." Isabella argued.
Isabella turned back, expecting, almost wanting Luciano to be enraged and angry at her. Instead he simply smiled softly at her in understanding, "As you wish." Luciano then moved to a nearby desk, lit a candle, and began writing in one of his large books he had writing around, leaving Isabella to stew in confusion, gratitude and frustration.
For the next month they spent half the days together in Luciano's chambers, with Luciano sometimes being as bold as to venture to Isabella's. As they were not even close enough to be friends, the days spent together were quiet with little direct interaction. Yet in spite of the lack of intimacy, Isabella found herself enjoying these shared times. Luciano respected her boundaries and in return she respected his work or studies. During these nights, there was no obligation from either to perform as King and Queen, or even husband and wife. They were simply too young souls living in comfortable silence, left to be whatever they wanted in their brief respite from the demanding and burdensome world. There were even some nights where they would engage in conversation and Isabella found herself enjoying these talks, where she was spoken to as an equal with a valuable opinion instead of as a tool of her family.
With their time together, the rumors while not completely fading, had subsided and the court slowly started to embrace her as the Queen. Isabella could have well stopped by that point, but she still made sure to at least spend a few days per week in Luciano's chambers, enjoying the peace, though at the same time yearning for more, even if she didn't want to admit it.
One night, Isabella had been bedridden with a drastic drop in composition. Her body combined with a cold front made it feel as if it were winter, and even a fully lit fireplace could not heal her weak spirit.
Delirious and exhausted, Isabella shivered under a pile of blankets, praying for the pain to go away. Too fatigued, Isabella did not notice a visitor in her chambers. In her dazed state, Isabella briefly observed the figure of Luciano, and would have ignored his entrance were it not for him climbing into her bed and wrapping his arms her.
At the touch, Isabella shrieked and thrashed in startlement, believing Luciano to have shown his true colors and that her destined fate as the Queen was to come. Yet instead of ravishing her, Luciano simply held onto her, hands never straying in a lustful manner.
Finally, Isabella managed to push him away, yet only for a brief foot and more out of Luciano's lack of resistance than any strength on her part. "What are you doing?!" She demanded.
"Keeping you warm." Luciano simply answered.
"How?! Could you simply not fetch me another blanket or quilt!" Isabella demanded.
Luciano frowned, "If you add more layers you will be suffocated to death and the fire is burning at full strength. The maids informed me you were heavily ill, and with all of this failing, I thought I could help, however I could."
"Why would that be your course of action?" Isabella questioned.
Luciano's face then fell in mourning, "Cause it was what my mother did when I was ill, and it always made me feel better."
At the explanation, Isabella immediately calmed down and felt great guilt, even if her reaction was justifiable for having felt that she was under attack. She recalled in her education before journeying to Rome how Luciano Grazini was not born a royal, or even noble for he had been a commoner born to artisan parents, parents who if the stories were true he loved deeply only to have them be taken by paranoid nobles in assassination.
Isabella may have had the best pedigree in the world, but she did not grow up in a house of love. Her mother was practically a stranger, often kept in confinement or traveling away from her, whispered to be mad with Isabella keeping distance for fear of infection. Her father was mostly in Spain and when Isabella did see him, she was in return treated with gifts and furthered as a tool.
From just one look at Luciano, she knew that however brief his time with his parents were, that he had been loved and he loved them in return. To honor their memory and share a form of love, Luciano had attempted to treat her with such kindness, and she pushed him away.
Touched by the gesture, confused by his character, her body aching for warmth, and somewhat wanting such a close touch. Isabella tiredly scooted closer towards Luciano, eyes looking downward.
Conflicted by the body language, Luciano slowly wrapped his arms once more, a brief nod from Isabella confirming the consent to continue forward until they were fully embraced, the closest they had been since saying their vows.
"Sleep well my Queen." Luciano whispered, which she soon did. While it was not immediate, Isabella did feel the cold begin to drift away as they were together, and when she awoke, still held in her husband's muscular arms, she felt not a drop of illness remaining in her body, simply warmth and comfort.
For nearly two weeks they did not share the same quarters, an awkward impasse being placed between the King and Queen on what that night meant and where they would go from there. However, at the same time it did feel like some great gap had been closed somewhat, and displays of warmth and affection which were previously rare grew to become daily occurrences in small and private ways.
Eventually, Luciano returned to his chambers to find Isabella retired, greeting at him with a tired smile. Happy that their marriage had returned to normal, Luciano smiled back and concluded his day with letters. Then retired to his bed and found himself surprised when Isabella moved to be closer to him and initiate an embrace of her own.
"I'm cold and I need warmth." Isabella simply explained, yet Luciano remembered that she had only resided with two covers of blankets and had a thin layer of nightwear, not to mention the Roman night itself was rather warm.
Covering her forehead with his palm, Luciano could not detect anything besides a warm temperature, but he did not see the point or desire of challenging her claim, simply returning her embrace and the two sleeping together, with Isabella continuing to be "Cold" for many nights to come.
- Location
- Take a wild guess
To understand Europe you need to understad the balance of power. In a pre-unified Italy your points would make sense but the unification of Italy changed the balance. Right now the Habsburgs are dealing in a situation with both the Ottomans and France are their rivals and mortal enemies. Did it suck that we lost our claims on Italy? yes. Was it a disapointing that Italy did not turn into a vassal? yes. But is in the past. The Ottomans are knocking on Vienna's door and the franks are helping them. To balence this they need Italy who is quite litterly in the middle of this and hey the queen is a Habsburgs so he's one of us, so lets not offend him infear he leaves us. So The Habsburgs are incentiviced to let bygones be bygones and help foster relations.
1) The Med is about to be a whole less important due to the America's
2)Spain has the Atlantic slave trade which OTL filled all demand for centuries, so no need for arabic slave trade
3) If you want tech you buy it or steal it not wage war and also name one instance in history where a nation declared war over schools?
- Location
- parker colorado
[X] Plan: King Luciano and the Invention of Leonardo
"Graziani"
"two"?
There should be a comma after "rumors".
"his arms around her"
This sentence should end in a question mark in addition to the exclamation point.
"Graziani"
There should be a comma after "who", and another one after "true".
"was"
There should be a comma after "well".
[X] Plan Networking and Invention
The Great Tea-napper
He hasn't been home for many years.
Ever since the day he left his homeland, he's always envisioned a day where he can bring home something of a Great Treasure that can be shared to his friends and family..he hasn't even seen his nephew as he left when he was just a babe.
He went off from his homeland to become someone like Marco Polo..with albeit a more ulterior motive that was developed when he arrived in India. A motive that confuses a lot of people in his past when he was searching for it all over the place in Asia: Tea.
After drinking that one sip of tea, after being offered by Arabian guides one night, paved away an ambition to return home with the knowledge of how to brew such a magnificent taste that can calm a person with only a sip, and the plants needed to make more of the leaves.
So on he went, on a long journey that lasted for years on end..even arriving in the far-places that not even Marco Polo managed to reach – just to learn the ways of Tea Crafting and growing, albeit while pretending to be an important Chinese Scholar under the guise of 'Hong Mushi'.
While sometimes he runs afoul of the Ming Dynasty's officials based on..other aspects that he can compare to the high class behaviours of the European Nobles (he even recorded these incidences in his journal). He managed to learn plenty of languages with a focus towards the Chinese, Korean, and Japanese regions to be able to understand the people's sayings vocally and written.
Nonetheless, he managed to record many of his discoveries in the art of Japanese, Chinese, and Korean Tea-making, their traditions, the different variants of tea categories under colours – an example would be 'Green Tea –, and even drawings of movements as added visual instructions.
In addition to his interest in tea, conversations shared between him and other tea-drinkers in his journeys shared different works of literature that he was also intrigued to bring home with him, after spending time in different bookstores in across the districts of China to boy several books his acquaintances were happy to share to export these ideas to a scholar like himself.
But finally, after a long excruciating journey from another tour around the East Asian countries to check on further accuracies and..definitely not attaining any forms of plants or seeds that may or may not implicate him of theft..he went on his way with an Arabian merchant caravan on the Northern Silk Road to return home through the Black Sea.
The journey to Crimea consisted of stories being shared between both the caravan and himself, escaping from bandits that tried to attack them, and even managing to have a cordial meeting with an Ottoman Anti-Banditry force – one of them a drunk complaining about the current situation between the Ottoman Empire and a Kingdom of Italy? He was intrigued at the news of the latter.
At Sevastopol, he greeted fellow Italian Merchants that were waiting for the next boat back to the City of Venice while he departed with his Arabian friends that were in the city for trade deals before leaving for Constantinople.
A quick stop in the aforementioned City to supply the ship made him look at the Hagia Sophia with awe, even drawing a picture of the building to his journal as he writes down the happenings of the day.
The days at sea in the mediterranean were filled with headaches that he've forgotten about when he crossed over the sea on the voyage towards the very ends of the known world, anything he wrote during this time of strife have squiggles and continued-on lines and circles as he kept writing.
After an unknown amount of time on sea, he finally arrived in the City of Venice – he definitely did not cry in relief and kiss the ground, thank you very much.
Going home back to Milan, he became impressed by the new infrastructure works that man, Leonardo Da Vinci, created as a project requested by Machiavelli to connect the United Regions into one unified road and bridge way. The cleaner and more professional look compared to the other roads of other nations really made the way back home smoother than he'd thought.
"Brother!" He announces loudly with cheer in his voice as he hugs the person that opened the door. "It's good to finally meet you after all this!" He steps back as he waves his hand back behind him. "I even brought gifts from my travels!"
"Bevitore?" His brother asks with a stunned look on his face. "You're finally back?"
"Of course! I want to also meet my nephew!" He walks towards the chest that he bought from China. "Speaking of him..I'd like to introduce you and him to a new drink of mine!"
"The Chinese call it 'Jasmine Green Tea'." He says with a soft tone after taking a sip of it.
He hasn't been home for many years.
Ever since the day he left his homeland, he's always envisioned a day where he can bring home something of a Great Treasure that can be shared to his friends and family..he hasn't even seen his nephew as he left when he was just a babe.
He went off from his homeland to become someone like Marco Polo..with albeit a more ulterior motive that was developed when he arrived in India. A motive that confuses a lot of people in his past when he was searching for it all over the place in Asia: Tea.
After drinking that one sip of tea, after being offered by Arabian guides one night, paved away an ambition to return home with the knowledge of how to brew such a magnificent taste that can calm a person with only a sip, and the plants needed to make more of the leaves.
So on he went, on a long journey that lasted for years on end..even arriving in the far-places that not even Marco Polo managed to reach – just to learn the ways of Tea Crafting and growing, albeit while pretending to be an important Chinese Scholar under the guise of 'Hong Mushi'.
While sometimes he runs afoul of the Ming Dynasty's officials based on..other aspects that he can compare to the high class behaviours of the European Nobles (he even recorded these incidences in his journal). He managed to learn plenty of languages with a focus towards the Chinese, Korean, and Japanese regions to be able to understand the people's sayings vocally and written.
Nonetheless, he managed to record many of his discoveries in the art of Japanese, Chinese, and Korean Tea-making, their traditions, the different variants of tea categories under colours – an example would be 'Green Tea –, and even drawings of movements as added visual instructions.
In addition to his interest in tea, conversations shared between him and other tea-drinkers in his journeys shared different works of literature that he was also intrigued to bring home with him, after spending time in different bookstores in across the districts of China to boy several books his acquaintances were happy to share to export these ideas to a scholar like himself.
But finally, after a long excruciating journey from another tour around the East Asian countries to check on further accuracies and..definitely not attaining any forms of plants or seeds that may or may not implicate him of theft..he went on his way with an Arabian merchant caravan on the Northern Silk Road to return home through the Black Sea.
The journey to Crimea consisted of stories being shared between both the caravan and himself, escaping from bandits that tried to attack them, and even managing to have a cordial meeting with an Ottoman Anti-Banditry force – one of them a drunk complaining about the current situation between the Ottoman Empire and a Kingdom of Italy? He was intrigued at the news of the latter.
At Sevastopol, he greeted fellow Italian Merchants that were waiting for the next boat back to the City of Venice while he departed with his Arabian friends that were in the city for trade deals before leaving for Constantinople.
A quick stop in the aforementioned City to supply the ship made him look at the Hagia Sophia with awe, even drawing a picture of the building to his journal as he writes down the happenings of the day.
The days at sea in the mediterranean were filled with headaches that he've forgotten about when he crossed over the sea on the voyage towards the very ends of the known world, anything he wrote during this time of strife have squiggles and continued-on lines and circles as he kept writing.
After an unknown amount of time on sea, he finally arrived in the City of Venice – he definitely did not cry in relief and kiss the ground, thank you very much.
Going home back to Milan, he became impressed by the new infrastructure works that man, Leonardo Da Vinci, created as a project requested by Machiavelli to connect the United Regions into one unified road and bridge way. The cleaner and more professional look compared to the other roads of other nations really made the way back home smoother than he'd thought.
"Brother!" He announces loudly with cheer in his voice as he hugs the person that opened the door. "It's good to finally meet you after all this!" He steps back as he waves his hand back behind him. "I even brought gifts from my travels!"
"Bevitore?" His brother asks with a stunned look on his face. "You're finally back?"
"Of course! I want to also meet my nephew!" He walks towards the chest that he bought from China. "Speaking of him..I'd like to introduce you and him to a new drink of mine!"
"The Chinese call it 'Jasmine Green Tea'." He says with a soft tone after taking a sip of it.
My take on this: Conflict with Charles is inevitable, as @Magoose and others have laid out. Even if we don't move against him at all and stay focused on the Mediterranean, he WILL move against us eventually to reopen the Mediterranean Slave Trade Routes, because he wants ALL the Slaves to build his new Empire.
But we shouldn't kick it off NOW. Let's use the time we have to preparebour country and our forces better and shore up more Alliances.
But we shouldn't kick it off NOW. Let's use the time we have to preparebour country and our forces better and shore up more Alliances.
Last edited:
Morroco is a Centre of That Trade..which becomes conflicting to the mission of the Navy.
- Location
- Take a wild guess
He has all the slaves he needs from Africa. Why would he go against a Habsburg power to open up a slave trade he does not need and disturb the balance of powers against him? They're not pokemon cards. OTL the atlantic slave trade delivered all needed manpower for centuries.
In OTL, the build-up in the New World was also a much slower process that took centuries and didn't have the direct, personal attention and presence of an Emperor behind it, causing the demand for Slaves in OTL to gradually increase, slowly enough that the Sub-Saharan Routes alone could supply the demand.
Charles wants to build an Empire to rival those of Europe within his lifetime in the Americas. And since he wants to do all of that with Slave Labor, he will need a LOT more Slaves a lot quicker then in OTL. All he can get his hands on, in fact.
In addition, all the Sub-Saharan Slave Routes are controlled by Portugal, not him. Charles could very easily decide that he wants to open up new Routes under his personal control.
Both cases will eventually bring him back to the Mediterranean...and to us.
Also, the Sub-Saharan Routes are nit nearly as build-up as they would become in later centuries. Another reason I doubt they alone will be enough to satisfy Charles' and the Portuguese own demands for Slave Labor.
And as for the 'balance of power': For one, that concept isn't really a thing yet in European politics and for other, Charles has grown megalomaniacal enough to decide that fighting the other European Powers to build his New World Empire is a fight he wants to and can take.
And what Habsburg Power would he go against if he reopened the Mediterranean Slave Trade? Us? Because last time I checked, we are NOT, in fact, a Habsburg Power.
Last edited:
- Pronouns
- Reader
I think the main problem is the whole, we fucked it up a bunch.
The main problem would be, well, the need to relocate to the strait of Gibralter, and build an entirely new town there. Honestly, looking back, I have to ask why @Magoose how it is we don't control their side of the strait already?
Agreed. The thing about the balance of power, is it's something Europe settled into in original history over the first few decades of the 1500s. That isn't happening here. Italy has disturbed too much. We unified Italy, ending it's time as the playground/warzone of numerous powers around the Mediterranean, which has seen them shift conflict elsewhere. We took Rome as our capital, which the pope fought us on, weakening the churches influence in the process. We became the worlds leading naval force, crushing the ottomans in the process and ending north African coastal slave trade, which I can't begin to imagine all the impact of, but the big one is it inspired Charles to take a personal interest in the new world do to feeling the need to compete with us for accomplishments, and may yet cause an succession crisis which could lead to infighting among the Habsburg over an empty spanish throne.
Last edited:
- Location
- Take a wild guess
The first generation of slaves would be natives at first it would not be until minimum a decade-ish after that they're were being replaced. And if Charles really REALLY needs more slaves he'll just buy from portugal or take it from in a trade war, that is much easier and cheaper then fighting a war to revive slavery in a region notorious for taking christians as slaves and pissing of Italy in to the hands of the French and Ottomans.
Charles is not a moron, he knows to secure his families (and his) European fortune and land an allied Italy is invalueble. He can choose to start another war for the Habsburgs after they're already being battered or make peace with Italy and get his slaves from Africa through peacefull or violent means. This is basic geopolitics, something that should be obviously clear to any one who thinks for just a moment. Sometimes I think you want that Spain would declare war.
Yeah but don't take it the wrong way, this idea that Spain is destined to attack us is stupid and is overtly alarmist and I didn't want to waste my time with it but I couldn't help myself when you said something wrong.
Last edited:
Before anyone asks..no, We can't send a fleet to Portugal to force them as it'll be out of our supply zone and none of our vessels are for Atlantic Navigation (As far as I know).
- Pronouns
- Reader
Your right about the supplies issues, though acquiring some Islands in the chain of 3 archipelagos off the west African coast leading to the main southern atlantic slave trade route would resolve many of them, but the Navy is made up of all kinds of vessels many of them fit for open sea voyage...
Especially it's new flagship.
Last edited:
Yeah, I don't think it's wrong at all. That's where we disagree.
Maybe I will be proven wrong in the future but I doubt it.
Oh and, also: When in History has what is 'obvious in geopolitics' ever stopped an insane megalomaniac like Charles has become from doing what he wants, believes he has to do or thinks is his 'god-given right'?
- Location
- Take a wild guess
Time tells all. Charles is not a stupid man, something which is made clear in this quest, so when he's presented with 2 options with one of them being better in every single way then he will pick that option. He can sense the diplomatic wind and knows that screwing over Italy is bad in the long term and short term.
- Pronouns
- Reader
Intelligent men are as susceptible to madness as any other. Alexander the great was an intelligent man, yet his beliefs saw him make declaration about his succession which saw his vast empire rapidly torn apart. Nobunaga oda is a similar figure, and Cesare Borgia was certainly not stupid.
Your faith in a ruler engaged in a world shaking power trip hell bent on remaking two continents in his image in a single lifespan to simply have no chance of making a politically and tactically unsound decision do to a growing sense of invincibility, simply because they are intelligent, is itself flawed logic.
If such were the case, the kingdom of Wu China would not have collapsed to internal politics after 80 years of successfully repelling the might of the kingdom of Jin. It's leaders were intelligent, but intelligent and power or glory hungry men do not consistently act logically.
Last edited:
[X] Plan I forgot to name this
Duke William of
I really need to finish my quests. :V
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Plan Networking and Invention
While I also believe that war with Spain is inevitable, I absolutely do not want to jump the gun. Let's build up and prepare our forces, alliances, economy, and other matters before war, and I'd really just like Spain to be the aggressors so we can claim the moral high ground.
"Preventive war is like committing suicide out of fear of death." – Otto von Bismarck.
While I also believe that war with Spain is inevitable, I absolutely do not want to jump the gun. Let's build up and prepare our forces, alliances, economy, and other matters before war, and I'd really just like Spain to be the aggressors so we can claim the moral high ground.
"Preventive war is like committing suicide out of fear of death." – Otto von Bismarck.
- Location
- leiden (NL)
[X] Plan True Control of the Mediterranean.