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Starfleet Design Bureau

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[X] 0: Upgrade the Stingray-class engines. (Warp 5 Engine, Impulse Thrusters) (30 Industry) (+3 Industry Cost)
[X] 1: Upgrade the Stingray-class weapons. (Atomic Torpedoes) (2 Industry) (+2 Industry Cost)
[X] 2: Do not upgun the Stingray-class.
 
[X] 0: Upgrade the Stingray-class engines. (Warp 5 Engine, Impulse Thrusters) (30 Industry) (+3 Industry Cost)
[X] 1: Upgrade the Stingray-class weapons. (Atomic Torpedoes) (2 Industry) (+2 Industry Cost)
[X] 2: Do not upgun the Stingray-class.
 
[X] 0: Upgrade the Stingray-class engines. (Warp 5 Engine, Impulse Thrusters) (30 Industry) (+3 Industry Cost)
[X] 1: Upgrade the Stingray-class weapons. (Atomic Torpedoes) (2 Industry) (+2 Industry Cost)
[X] 2: Do not upgun the Stingray-class.
 
Jensaarai said:
The launchers and torpedoes are grouped together in the same price, so even installing atomic torpedoes on a new ship would still cost 2 Industry

It's also possible the Warp 5 Engine still only costs 1 Industry, same as the old Warp 3, though as I understood when our tech increases in complexity so does the cost. That would still at least align with the +3 Industry cost increase, given the Impulse costs 2.

But I'm still not sure how it gels with the (30 Industry) line...
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If it wasn't for the Torpedo section it seems like the (30 industry lines) would be how much it would cost to refit all our current stingrays. As the currently built stingrays use a warp 3 engine(1 industry) and 2 reaction thrusters(1 industry each) that would have to be removed and would not get us any industry in return, so the 6 industry for the new systems x5 = 30. And same for the upgun, as that would just be making 3 new guns for each of the already existing stingrays, again at 6 per stingray(2 per cannon) for a total of 30. All I can think is that maybe the payload for the spatial torpedos can be cheaply upgraded to the payload for atomics and that they have the same shell or somethin.
 
[X] 0: Upgrade the Stingray-class engines. (Warp 5 Engine, Impulse Thrusters) (30 Industry) (+3 Industry Cost)
[X] 1: Do not upgrade the Stingray-class weapons.
[X] 2: Do not upgun the Stingray-class.

I think keeping it cheap would be best, but the speed upgrades should turn it's maneuverability from "very high" to "Comically high"
And the Warp 5 engine would actually let to do pirate patrols between colonies within a reasonable amount of time.
 
[X] 0: Upgrade the Stingray-class engines. (Warp 5 Engine, Impulse Thrusters) (30 Industry) (+3 Industry Cost)
[X] 1: Upgrade the Stingray-class weapons. (Atomic Torpedoes) (2 Industry) (+2 Industry Cost)
[X] 2: Do not upgun the Stingray-class.

I remember the old torpedos were rated as close to useless so I'm not happy leaving them. But I don't think it needs the extra coverage from more cannons, especially with the upgraded mobility.
 
[X] 0: Upgrade the Stingray-class engines. (Warp 5 Engine, Impulse Thrusters) (30 Industry) (+3 Industry Cost)
[X] 1: Upgrade the Stingray-class weapons. (Atomic Torpedoes) (2 Industry) (+2 Industry Cost)
[X] 2: Do not upgun the Stingray-class.
 
ShuTheDragon said:
If it wasn't for the Torpedo section it seems like the (30 industry lines) would be how much it would cost to refit all our current stingrays. As the currently built stingrays use a warp 3 engine(1 industry) and 2 reaction thrusters(1 industry each) that would have to be removed and would not get us any industry in return, so the 6 industry for the new systems x5 = 30. And same for the upgun, as that would just be making 3 new guns for each of the already existing stingrays, again at 6 per stingray(2 per cannon) for a total of 30. All I can think is that maybe the payload for the spatial torpedos can be cheaply upgraded to the payload for atomics and that they have the same shell or somethin.
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I actually forgot the Stingray had two thrusters. So, if we consider it as something like; Warp 5 Engine -2 Industry, 2x Impulse Thrusters -2 Industry, total Industry Cost -6, then yeah that would make sense with the 30 Industry spread across five ships... except that damn "+3 Industry Cost" still doesn't make sense with this.
 
[X] 0: Upgrade the Stingray-class engines. (Warp 5 Engine, Impulse Thrusters) (30 Industry) (+3 Industry Cost)
[X] 1: Upgrade the Stingray-class weapons. (Atomic Torpedoes) (2 Industry) (+2 Industry Cost)
[X] 2: Do not upgun the Stingray-class.
 
Jensaarai said:
I actually forgot the Stingray had two thrusters. So, if we consider it as something like; Warp 5 Engine -2 Industry, 2x Impulse Thrusters -2 Industry, total Industry Cost -6, then yeah that would make sense with the 30 Industry spread across five ships... except that damn "+3 Industry Cost" still doesn't make sense with this.
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Simply ignore the quantitative side of things, and vote based on vibes :V
 
[X] 0: Upgrade the Stingray-class engines. (Warp 5 Engine, Impulse Thrusters) (30 Industry) (+3 Industry Cost)
[X] 1: Upgrade the Stingray-class weapons. (Atomic Torpedoes) (2 Industry) (+2 Industry Cost)
[X] 2: Do not upgun the Stingray-class.
 
[X] 0: Upgrade the Stingray-class engines. (Warp 5 Engine, Impulse Thrusters) (30 Industry) (+3 Industry Cost)
[X] 1: Upgrade the Stingray-class weapons. (Atomic Torpedoes) (2 Industry) (+2 Industry Cost)
[X] 2: Do not upgun the Stingray-class.
 
[X] 0: Upgrade the Stingray-class engines. (Warp 5 Engine, Impulse Thrusters) (30 Industry) (+3 Industry Cost)
[X] 1: Upgrade the Stingray-class weapons. (Atomic Torpedoes) (2 Industry) (+2 Industry Cost)
[X] 2: Do not upgun the Stingray-class.
 
KNakamura said:
Yeah, but really you'd want some consoles to be behind fuses. I agree why it does it, though.
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actually, lack of fuses is exactly why the sparks are flying. The exploding consoles are a re-creation of a combat condition on WW2 ships known as a Battle Short, deliberately bypassing safety measures that protect the system from damage to ensure that the systems remain functional at all times, to avoid getting into a situation like the South Dakota did in its battleship-on-battleship duel. Rather than lose the functionality of a console because it lacks power, better to make sure the flow is uninterrupted, even if it produces scary sparks and such.

Jensaarai said:
I actually forgot the Stingray had two thrusters. So, if we consider it as something like; Warp 5 Engine -2 Industry, 2x Impulse Thrusters -2 Industry, total Industry Cost -6, then yeah that would make sense with the 30 Industry spread across five ships... except that damn "+3 Industry Cost" still doesn't make sense with this.
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+ 3 industry cost to new build stingrays, my friend. That's where it comes from.
 
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i kind of also want more gun but i am fine with the leading vote
[X] 0: Upgrade the Stingray-class engines. (Warp 5 Engine, Impulse Thrusters) (30 Industry) (+3 Industry Cost)
[X] 1: Upgrade the Stingray-class weapons. (Atomic Torpedoes) (2 Industry) (+2 Industry Cost)
[X] 2: Do not upgun the Stingray-class.
 
Skippy said:
Really hoping we made the right choice in going for three and not five extra NX-class, honestly. We voted for that because it would theoretically let us build more ships during the Earth-Romulan war, but this may not be helpful when ships take a year to build and the most dangerous time for Earth will be weathering the initial Romulan onslaught. Still, we know we'll survive somehow.
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To be honest a good factor of the Federation's Survival was more to Romulan ineptitude when it comes to politics and actual war.

Like they were destabilizing everyone because the Humans were apparently helping to stabilize the region and got caught decided to pick a fight and got folded. Mano-a-Mano probably results in the Romulan's winning this early, granted its really unlikely to stay given that the other powers in the Alpha quadrant don't like the Romulan.
 
UlseDovThur said:
Not sure where people are getting the idea that the Stingray isn't a real warship. It is literally nothing but a warship. Just because it doesn't have the maximum amount of guns doesn't change that.

Reminder that the NX is the equivalent of a heavy cruiser. The Stingray is a lighter warship but is still very much a proper warship.
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Oh no I am aware That the stingray are the equivalent of coastal Patrol boats right now.(Under armed, slow, and not very maneuverable.) With the full upgrades we turn it into a light cruiser. A stingray with warp 5 engine, Impulse drives, 6 guns and Atomic Torpedoes is going to be so much better than the block 1 ships that it isn't even funny.
 
[X] 0: Upgrade the Stingray-class engines. (Warp 5 Engine, Impulse Thrusters) (30 Industry) (+3 Industry Cost)
[X] 1: Upgrade the Stingray-class weapons. (Atomic Torpedoes) (2 Industry) (+2 Industry Cost)
[X] 2: Do not upgun the Stingray-class.
 
After the Stingray refit I would like to build a second flight of Stingrays. Then I want to make a new, bigger class for cargo transport to replace the Merchant class, and refit the existing Merchant class into science vessels with upgraded Warp Drives and the cargo bay turned into science labs, while leaving the reaction engines and weapons as they are. With those refits they would work really well for, and be very cost effective at, astrometric survey, second contact, and other longer duration science missions, after the NX class ships have done the exploration to make sure things are safe. I am not sure what other roles Starfleet needs filled right now.
 
[x] 0: Upgrade the Stingray-class engines. (Warp 5 Engine, Impulse Thrusters) (30 Industry) (+3 Industry Cost)
[x] 1: Upgrade the Stingray-class weapons. (Atomic Torpedoes) (2 Industry) (+2 Industry Cost)
[X] 2: Do not upgun the Stingray-class.
 
[X] 0: Upgrade the Stingray-class engines. (Warp 5 Engine, Impulse Thrusters) (30 Industry) (+3 Industry Cost)
[X] 1: Upgrade the Stingray-class weapons. (Atomic Torpedoes) (2 Industry) (+2 Industry Cost)
[X] 2: Do not upgun the Stingray-class.

Vehrec said:
actually, lack of fuses is exactly why the sparks are flying. The exploding consoles are a re-creation of a combat condition on WW2 ships known as a Battle Short, deliberately bypassing safety measures that protect the system from damage to ensure that the systems remain functional at all times, to avoid getting into a situation like the South Dakota did in its battleship-on-battleship duel. Rather than lose the functionality of a console because it lacks power, better to make sure the flow is uninterrupted, even if it produces scary sparks and such.
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The answer to that is to have a fusebox in the console but also a manual bypass lever.
 
Vehrec said:
+ 3 industry cost to new build stingrays, my friend. That's where it comes from.
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Alright yeah, that would make sense with the old thrusters and warp engine being removed. I think the only confusion is about the torpedoes now.

@Sayle, could we get some word on this; what does this "(Atomic Torpedoes) (2 Industry) (+2 Industry Cost)" mean? Would it really only cost 2 Industry to refit all five Stingrays with atomic torpedoes?
 
[X] 0: Upgrade the Stingray-class engines. (Warp 5 Engine, Impulse Thrusters) (30 Industry) (+3 Industry Cost)
[X] 1: Upgrade the Stingray-class weapons. (Atomic Torpedoes) (2 Industry) (+2 Industry Cost)
[X] 2: Do not upgun the Stingray-class.
 
Don't really need to vote since it's already the overwhelming majority, but

[X] 0: Upgrade the Stingray-class engines. (Warp 5 Engine, Impulse Thrusters) (30 Industry) (+3 Industry Cost)
[X] 1: Upgrade the Stingray-class weapons. (Atomic Torpedoes) (2 Industry) (+2 Industry Cost)
[X] 2: Do not upgun the Stingray-class.

Though, I am confused by Atomic Torpedoes' Industry Costs. If they use the same tubes as Spatial Torpedoes then it suggests that the +1 relative cost per atomic torpedo launcher represents the (amortized) cost of producing the torpedoes. However, if that were the case, the 2 industry for the refitting the existing ones seems too low.
 
Bedpotato said:
Oh no I am aware That the stingray are the equivalent of coastal Patrol boats right now.(Under armed, slow, and not very maneuverable.) With the full upgrades we turn it into a light cruiser. A stingray with warp 5 engine, Impulse drives, 6 guns and Atomic Torpedoes is going to be so much better than the block 1 ships that it isn't even funny.
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No, my man. The Stingray is at least a frigate equivalent.

As has been stated the extra guns don't actually do very much for the Stingray. The would mostly just give it better firing arcs so that it could shoot effectively in all directions, however as mentioned when we were designing it;

"With all the weapons on the ventral surface, it means that it is theoretically possible for an enemy to stay in the dorsal arcs and evade counter-fire. More realistically the Daedalus' dual thrusters allows it rapid turns in the horizontal axis with asynchronous thrust, and its RCS thrusters at the edge of the saucer means that it can rotate along its longitudinal axis to bring its cannons to bear. Any ship capable of defeating both these efforts is likely one with such a technological advantage that the Daedalus has no business fighting it"

It doesn't need the extra guns because of how nimble it is, keeping an enemy in its sights won't be an issue. And this is before the new Impulse engines make it even more maneuverable. The Stingray is a lean, mean, fighting machine.
 
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