NorseQuest (A Norse Xianxia)

Skippy · Oct 19, 2023

Alectai said:
No, but with the nerfs on TSS, he can overcome the Time Stop, and then presumably with his own Standstill, he can enter the Frozen Time properly, which means we just wasted an Aspect.

So, I think I'm right in saying this... Standstill by itself does not let you do anything in the Stopped Time. To stop time, you have to turn your Standstill inside and use it to cloak yourself, so it's freezing the rest of the universe and leaving you free to act. This technique takes a long time to master; look for example at how long it took Halla to crack this.

I don't disagree with the broader point that he might be able to protect himself in a TSS - he can probably add a ton of dice to any opposed check, although Stoker State potentially lets us match this. But Standstill alone probably does not let him enter the Stopped Time, although I am somewhat unclear about the what the wording means there to begin with, and exactly how much agency someone who beats a check gets.

alexthealright · Oct 19, 2023

At the very least he would probably need to burn an aspect

Skippy · Oct 19, 2023

Like, narratively, I think him being able to move in the Stopped Time would be really scary and a cool scene, so it makes sense - but the wording apparently lets people defend, but not move if they beat the check on TSS?

But my point was that Standstill by itself shouldn't confer the ability to just instantly comprehend what's going on and move like Halla can; there's quite a lot of steps in between.

alexthealright · Oct 19, 2023

Skippy said:
but the wording apparently lets people defend, but not move if they beat the check on TSS?

No it lets them perceive things in the time stop but they still can't do anything until it ends

DeadmanwalkingXI · Oct 19, 2023

weeblypanda said:
Why do we need to burn the other Aspects?
Edit: Or at least why do we need to pop them both right away?

Technically speaking burning both might be slight overkill...but it's pretty slight. We need one to do the planned Guards and would be left very low indeed after those and our theoretical defenses. Burning both seems like a safer bet.

alexthealright said:
No it lets them perceive things in the time stop but they still can't do anything until it ends

This is the wording, yeah.

alexthealright · Oct 19, 2023

I think normal Hooknails had a chance of being able to follow us into TSS but Hooknails in Berserkergang should have no chance of figuring it out

I.F. Ister · Oct 19, 2023

Bass11 said:
Wouldn't this mean we could technically brace ourselves using veto motion to use Thermic Reckoning in the air? Once we got Thermic Reckoning down?

Yes, but I would recommend that you still don't aim at the ground, at least as long as you don't mind losing whatever you're fighting on

Some_guy_161 · Oct 19, 2023

[X] Plan Time To Tend The Flame

Bass11 · Oct 19, 2023

Imperial Fister said:
Yes, but I would recommend that you still don't aim at the ground, at least as long as you don't mind losing whatever you're fighting on

Yeah, I'm not saying we should aim it anywhere near the ground. It does seem to be a generally fuck you to anything within the line of effect.

tygerbright · Oct 19, 2023

[X] Plan Time To Tend The Flame

mythfan12 · Oct 19, 2023

Imperial Fister said:
Yes, but I would recommend that you still don't aim at the ground, at least as long as you don't mind losing whatever you're fighting on

Well, I guess we now know how Blackhand made a giant crater while alive.

DeadmanwalkingXI · Oct 19, 2023

mythfan12 said:
Well, I guess we now know how Blackhand made a giant crater while alive.

Probably not that Trick specifically, but various similar ones seem very possible, yes.

alexthealright · Oct 19, 2023

He probably also added The Infinite Murder Fire to whatever Finale he was using

mythfan12 · Oct 19, 2023

alexthealright said:
He probably also added The Infinite Murder Fire to whatever Finale he was using

..... That gives me a terrifying idea. Blackhand's Conceptual Murder fire mixed with a Finale with Devouring Blaze as a base.

AeonIlluminate · Oct 19, 2023

should we dump some research on getting Sten to do his Rain Of Arrows at us to charge up another arbitrarily high amount of stoker dice and dump them all into a Stoker Trick, and just work our way through testing each of them for Finale Potential, and other benefits. Maybe Firepit Fling would make us so fast we get Acceleration out of it?

I.F. Ister · Oct 19, 2023

I just won a Grass Crown in A Legionary's Life so I'm feeling really good right now. I reckon I can do another update today, if you folks are okay with only having a scant few hours of planning?

alexthealright · Oct 19, 2023

I'm ok with it so long as everyone else is

Skippy · Oct 19, 2023

alexthealright said:
No it lets them perceive things in the time stop but they still can't do anything until it ends

DeadmanwalkingXI said:
This is the wording, yeah.

As a sidebar, this honestly makes no sense to me. It's hard to see how this is a meaningful defence - I suppose some Hugareida abilities might be useable in that state. I'm not sure why we wouldn't go with the much more cinematic option of the opponent starting to perceive and move within the stopped time.

Imperial Fister said:
I just won a Grass Crown in A Legionary's Life so I'm feeling really good right now. I reckon I can do another update today, if you folks are okay with only having a scant few hours of planning?

Nice one! I love that game!

And yeah, probably, although I have a couple of questions:

(1) If we used Time Stands Still defensively and did three Backstep defences, how much time/space would that buy us (can we fold them to get six?), and would Hooknails get an opposed save?

(2) Could Sagaseeker use Forceful Lever whilst we're charging the FTB?

I.F. Ister · Oct 19, 2023

Skippy said:
(1) If we used Time Stands Still defensively and did three Backstep defences, how much time/space would that buy us (can we fold them to get six?), and would Hooknails get an opposed save?

Hooknails would be able to observe what you're doing in stopped time if he won the contest. You'd get more then enough space to get out of the way of anything he's doing save a large-scale Finale

Skippy said:
(2) Could Sagaseeker use Forceful Lever whilst we're charging the FTB?

Yes, he could

DeadmanwalkingXI · Oct 19, 2023

AeonIlluminate said:
should we dump some research on getting Sten to do his Rain Of Arrows at us to charge up another arbitrarily high amount of stoker dice and dump them all into a Stoker Trick, and just work our way through testing each of them for Finale Potential, and other benefits. Maybe Firepit Fling would make us so fast we get Acceleration out of it?

I'm skeptical we can get finales for free this way, or gain Hugareida. It's how we'd train them if we wanted to train them, but the xp costs would be as normal. Like, if we want 'more powerful but a finale' on a Trick, we can probably get it...but there's a limit to how many of those are good and useful.

Skippy · Oct 19, 2023

Okay, so @DeadmanwalkingXI, suggestions for your plan before the vote is called:

- As a last ditch option, we use Time Stands Still and as many Backstep defences as we can stick in there to create a ton of distance. This gets us out of harm's way when all our other defences have failed, and creates a ton of distance, which buys us more charging time as he has to try and chase down again. This does not have the same reliability issues as using it offensively - even if he beats the check it still does what we need it to do.

- Have Sagaseeker who is still flying around use Forceful Lever, to create distance and knock Hooknails backwards. (Also it gives Sagaseeker a cool moment to show off.)

This is probably going to come down to seconds, so every moment we buy and every bit of distance we create helps us.

AeonIlluminate · Oct 19, 2023

AeonIlluminate said:
should we dump some research on getting Sten to do his Rain Of Arrows at us to charge up another arbitrarily high amount of stoker dice and dump them all into a Stoker Trick, and just work our way through testing each of them for Finale Potential, and other benefits. Maybe Firepit Fling would make us so fast we get Acceleration out of it?

@Imperial Fister would this work for generating a bunch of Finale class moves and maybe a few other benefits, or are you gonna strike it down for narrative/mechanics abuse reasons?

DeadmanwalkingXI · Oct 19, 2023

Skippy said:
Okay, so @DeadmanwalkingXI, suggestions for your plan before the vote is called:

- As a last ditch option, we use Time Stands Still and as many Backstep defences as we can stick in there to create a ton of distance. This gets us out of harm's way when all our other defences have failed, and creates a ton of distance, which buys us more charging time as he has to try and chase down again. This does not have the same reliability issues as using it offensively - even if he beats the check it still does what we need it to do.

So, this is already in the plan with the exception of the Backsteps, which I'm not sure are needed given our speed? I'll add them as a conditional if they're faster.

Skippy said:
- Have Sagaseeker who is still flying around use Forceful Lever, to create distance and knock Hooknails backwards. (Also it gives Sagaseeker a cool moment to show off.)

This I'm less sure about...it'd involve not having Sagaseeker providing a Guard for us which is harder to guard break than usual...lemme think.

@Imperial Fister related questions on Guards:

1. If Sagaseeker is Guarding us can he take a break for a moment, use Forceful Lever then go back to it without needing to re-spend the Orthstirr? Or not?
2. As a slightly less related question, can we upgrade an existing Guard (from 60d6 to 120d6, for example) or do we need to recreate it from scratch?

I.F. Ister · Oct 19, 2023

AeonIlluminate said:
@Imperial Fister would this work for generating a bunch of Finale class moves and maybe a few other benefits, or are you gonna strike it down for narrative/mechanics abuse reasons?

Just to give you a bit more information on how Finales operate, the first Finale you get in a Martial Style is significantly easier then subsequent Finales in the same Martial Style. Finales are the epitome of a Style, it's kinda hard to have two epitomes let alone three.

DeadmanwalkingXI said:
1. If Sagaseeker is Guarding us can he take a break for a moment, use Forceful Lever then go back to it without needing to re-spend the Orthstirr? Or not?

He can, yes. He is Realized

DeadmanwalkingXI said:
2. As a slightly less related question, can we upgrade an existing Guard (from 60d6 to 120d6, for example) or do we need to recreate it from scratch?

You have to touch the Guard to do so, but yes

Bass11 · Oct 19, 2023

I mean, it might be better for Sagaseeker to forceful lever us in that situation rather than trying to contest Hooknails into being moved. Either to add to our speed or shield the plan from Hooknail's frenzy since he's definitely focusing all his attention on us.

NorseQuest (A Norse Xianxia)

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