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NorseQuest (A Norse Xianxia)

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TheCount said:
You both forgot he will have frenzy.
Even if he hadn't, it's not like he is blind or passive to just respond to what we did last turn.
And even animals can plan ahead even if not as complexly as humans.
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We've been told very explicitly that we may well get less effective if we use berserkergang because we're a technical fighter who uses specific counters to specific enemy actions and similar stuff. Being clever with your shapeshifts and planning things out like this is very much 'technical fighter' territory...if you can do that, then berserkergang doesn't have a real down side (beyond the 'can't tell friend from foe'), which goes very much against what we've heard about it.

Like, I'm not saying he won't have plans exactly, but he won't be making counter-plans to ours. He will have a thing he is trying to do and assign the shapeshifts to do it, ignoring what we're planning unless it's glaringly obvious. And we can very likely work with that and bait him into suboptimal choices.
 
The Lone badger said:
In the future where the fight continues, is Hooknails still half a man or is the berserkergang shroud performing the duties of his missing parts?
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It provides a healing factor, I think, but we will see...
And freeform shapeshifting can be whacky.

Edit: damn, sorry for the double post.
DeadmanwalkingXI said:
We've been told very explicitly that we may well get less effective if we use berserkergang because we're a technical fighter who uses specific counters to specific enemy actions and similar stuff. Being clever with your shapeshifts and planning things out like this is very much 'technical fighter' territory...if you can do that, then berserkergang doesn't have a real down side (beyond the 'can't tell friend from foe'), which goes very much against what we've heard about it.

Like, I'm not saying he won't have plans exactly, but he won't be making counter-plans to ours. He will have a thing he is trying to do and assign the shapeshifts to do it, ignoring what we're planning unless it's glaringly obvious. And we can very likely work with that and bait him into suboptimal choices.
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Oh, I am not saying he will do stuff like setting up mist walls to beat us into it or stuff like that.
And definitely not straight up "I knew you knew that I knew you knew I will do this" type stuff, but he will do more than just react to what we did.
But I doubtful as to why would shapeshifting be counted as tactical?
And he will have slots to spare to do more than just fix what he lacked the previous turn, I think, shapeshift wise.
 
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[X] You find his scorched body at the bottom of a crater (End it here, with victory in hand)

Please no. Overconfidence will kill us. We won. Please dont snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Also @Imperial Fister, what led to the creation of the new finale. Which technique combinations led to it? And this is a finale for the stoker style right? Can a style have multiple finales?
 
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Solar Saiyan said:
Also @Imperial Fister, what led to the creation of the new finale. Which technique combinations led to it? And this is a finale for the stoker style right? Can a style have multiple finales?
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From context, it seems like powering up Fire Poker until it was Finale level (which we did) unlocked the Finale version of the same Trick. And I don't think we were ever told it was one Finale per Style there's usually just diminishing returns on too many Finales. This one seems good, though. Shorter charge time than FTB but only one target rather than AoE...that's a niche we didn't have otherwise.
 
[X] You find his scorched body at the bottom of a crater (End it here, with victory in hand)

Let's take the win.
 
I feel the need to point out to people voting to end it here, not only is there a boon in it for us, but we basically skipped to the second phase with basically nothing else spent than from the first round. And the Orth payment can easily be gotten back from an Aspect burn. Not to mention part of what made Hooknails deadly was his clever usages of his hugareida, which he's gonna have a reduced skill in due to Frenzy.
 
A huge chunk of Hooknails threat in this past fight was his abilities as a technical fighter being leveraged to try and counter Hallas build and even then his best move got uno reversed into an unambiguous kill shot

Here he'll be trading finesse for raw power. Power that was already meaningfully expended in getting his ass beat along with what itll cost him to get back into the fight at all.

While Hallas defenses remain relatively intact. And Hooknails only weapons will likely be what his Shapeshifting affords him

Theres genuinely no reason to back away from a fight that's far beyond winnable, itll also let Halla learn more of Frenzy, which is a key element of Norse Cultivation

The more holistic her understanding the more she can pass on to her descendants. There is just as much a risk of death going for Round 2 as there was going for Round 1 in the first place:

Considerable, but not cripplingly so
 
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mythfan12 said:
I feel the need to point out to people voting to end it here, not only is there a boon in it for us, but we basically skipped to the second phase with basically nothing else spent than from the first round. And the Orth payment can easily be gotten back from an Aspect burn. Not to mention part of what made Hooknails deadly was his clever usages of his hugareida, which he's gonna have a reduced skill in due to Frenzy.
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So. If we win, the second phase is obviously worth it. The question is what are our odds of winning and is the benefit worth the risk. I don't think anyone is voting for ending it here because they think the expenditures will be too high, they're doing it because we might die. We are risking True Death for the rewards here...we had no real choice about this fight, it was Fated. But if we end it here, we live. Probably pretty much for sure...we fight the second phase? That might not be the case.

And Hooknails will definitely be less tactical while he's in Berserkergang. No doubt. But we don't know what else will be true of him in that state, how hard he'll hit or how hard he'll be to kill. We don't know enough about berserkergang to properly gauge the threat, but it's not small.

Which doesn't mean we shouldn't do this. As I said, I'm ambivalent on that point, but if we do it, we should know we are taking a significant risk in doing so, not thinking in terms of it being easy.

TehChron said:
Here he'll be trading finesse for raw power. Power that was already meaningfully expended in getting his ass beat along with what itll cost him to get back into the fight at all.
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One theory proposed is that Berserkergang, like our Calm Charges, recovers all spent Aspects by burning them out for later use. That seems highly plausible given what else we know about berserkergang. We should assume that he'll have full Aspects for the fight. It might not be true, but better to plan for the worst case scenario.

TehChron said:
Theres genuinely no reason to back away from a fight that's far beyond winnable, itll also let Halla learn more of Frenzy, which is a key element of Norse Cultivation
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IF specifically noted on Discord that there is a reason he gave us the choice to end it here. I do not think assuming the second stage of this fight will be easy is the way to go. Easier than the first stage? Maybe. Easy? Definitely not.
 
DeadmanwalkingXI said:
IF specifically noted on Discord that there is a reason he gave us the choice to end it here. I do not think assuming the second stage of this fight will be easy is the way to go. Easier than the first stage? Maybe. Easy? Definitely not.
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TehChron said:
There is just as much a risk of death going for Round 2 as there was going for Round 1 in the first place:

Considerable, but not cripplingly so
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Assuming you missed the edit and clarification of my position
 
DeadmanwalkingXI said:
So. If we win, the second phase is obviously worth it. The question is what are our odds of winning and is the benefit worth the risk. I don't think anyone is voting for ending it here because they think the expenditures will be too high, they're doing it because we might die. We are risking True Death for the rewards here...we had no real choice about this fight, it was Fated. But if we end it here, we live. Probably pretty much for sure...we fight the second phase? That might not be the case.

And Hooknails will definitely be less tactical while he's in Berserkergang. No doubt. But we don't know what else will be true of him in that state, how hard he'll hit or how hard he'll be to kill. We don't know enough about berserkergang to properly gauge the threat, but it's not small.

Which doesn't mean we shouldn't do this. As I said, I'm ambivalent on that point, but if we do it, we should know we are taking a significant risk in doing so, not thinking in terms of it being easy.
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All completely fair points, I wasn't intending to downplay how dangerous it would be, but I personally feel the benefits and situation changes make it worth it.
 
DeadmanwalkingXI said:
We were Fated to fight Hooknails. This is not a setting where fighting Fate leads anywhere good, at least not when attempting to avoid danger for people at our power level. Note that the second option emphasizes that we try, not that we succeed.
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That's just a case of you weighing costs and benefits before choosing the path of least resistance though

The option still existed
 
Honestly I'm voting for Hooknails getting back up in Berserkergang because it feels cooler and more appropriate for a Viking story. Guy just going "This is not my time, not now, not ever!" as he steadfastly does everything he can to win the fight and live another day.

As to whether we can win, uhhhhhh, well it's gonna be a painful fight honestly. I suspect only Boulderbomb and FTB can even do meaningful amounts of damage.

Well, Berserkergang is rightly feared for good reason. Just in the narrative itself Hooknails will have survived a whole ton of Sparkbombs! That's really scary.

The theory I've postulated, and which I personally think is accurate, is that what Berserkergang does is:

1) All your Hugr (and Hugr Infusions!) goes into Hamr. Hooknails had Hamr 9/10 and Hugr 10. So he goes straight to Hamr 19/20. He effectively has 14/15 Shapeshifting Slots.
2) Your Frenzy becomes your Berserkergang Shroud. Effects unknown, but likely better than Frenzy in raw 'power'*.
3) Probably additional effects based on your Berserkergang Martial Rank.

Narratively, power demands sacrifice, and more sacrifice equals more power. In this case your sacrifice is your Hugr, your ability to think, in exchange for Hamr, power. Naturally the more thought sacrificed, the more power gained. Additionally, I suspect that what's happening is that the barrier between 'thought' and 'action' is eliminated. Thought is now action. You can't plan anymore. You may even sacrifice non-perfected hugr tricks, but that's an iffier proposition.

*Possible effects:

Frenzy becomes DR at the level of Frenzy.
Frenzy causes a Fear effect at the level of Frenzy.
More?

I'm pretty sure Berserkergang Shroud does not provide any level of tactics, and in fact I think you effectively have Tactics: 0.

Do you retain Orthstirr and Aspects? I dunno. Orthstirr requires that you have the ability to decide your own fate - Agency, in other words - and someone in Berserkergang doesn't have agency anymore. Though I honestly hope you do, because if you don't retain them then the implication is that you get something else in their place, which is freaking scary in this current situation.
 
Shard said:
1) All your Hugr (and Hugr Infusions!) goes into Hamr. Hooknails had Hamr 9/10 and Hugr 10. So he goes straight to Hamr 19/20. He effectively has 14/15 Shapeshifting Slots.
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Note that he has also had Shapecrafting done, so at least his Fasts are on top of this, and he may have some other shapecrafted slots as well. Those slots couldn't shift around, but are worth keeping in mind. I think the most likely ones he has other than the Fasts are Speed boosts and Target-Tracking Eyes, but it could be whatever.
 
TehChron said:
...Dont think that I dont notice what youre doing there. I never said a fight could be avoided, only that round 1 of the duel could have been.

The mass combat plan is what got interrupted, after all
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I'm skeptical that would have worked and always was. We could have tried, but I don't think it would have succeeded at that point, he would have just insulted us and forced us into a duel. Realistically, I think the duel was always gonna happen. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

It was in the plan basically as something to negotiate down from, and in case he agreed to it, but as soon as he proposed a duel, it was a dead idea.
 
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[X] Hooknails climbs from his would-be-tomb, wrapped in a shroud of Berserkergang (Round 2, Bonus Rewards)
glory or death, let gods and kings know our name
 
[X] Hooknails climbs from his would-be-tomb, wrapped in a shroud of Berserkergang (Round 2, Bonus Rewards)

Just caught up with the quest. Above all, this feels appropriate for me. We're a Norse warrior, panicking and trying to evade fights and consequences is odrengskarpr behavior.
 
Heavygenium said:
Just caught up with the quest.
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Welcome!

Heavygenium said:
Above all, this feels appropriate for me. We're a Norse warrior, panicking and trying to evade fights and consequences is odrengskarpr behavior.
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Just to be clear, this vote is not a choice Halla is making in-character. It's a choice we the Questers are making about what happens...Halla just has to live with whatever choice we make. Wanting to do it because it's appropriate is totally valid, but the appropriateness if a narrative thing, not a matter of Halla avoiding anything.
 
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