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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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NSMS said:
True, though I imagine the internal bleeding from a shadow knife will likely be significantly more extensive (spread over a larger area, at minimum, is what I'd expect) than what you'd get from naturally caused internal bleeding. Enough that it doesn't really change what I said- that it'd get people looking at it.
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That's fine, though - we want people looking at it. It doesn't actually have to look like natural causes at first glance, it only needs to be plausible that the killer intended it to look like natural causes. A knife through the chest doesn't achieve that, but some sort of internal wound that according to expert testimony doesn't look quite right could easily be a botched attempt to fake natural causes. A ruptured spleen, for example, can bleed quite a bit, and the blood can spread over a large area. Maybe the Lahmian assassin wanted to fake that but got a bit overzealous?
 
chocolote12 said:
I do have to ask: Somebody mentioned us being interrupted doing something weird to the Tzar and deciding to kill him and bug out in a Lahmian fashion would be an excellent plan B. Would we take advantage of that sort of serendipity, though?
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IMO it would be weird if we didn't. "Get interrupted doing a fancy slow assassination" -> "do a regular quick assassination and scarper" ain't exactly rocket surgery.
 
Wiggy said:
Man, I was rereading the drycha fight, and it occurs to me that Mathilde has run into a weirdly high amount of intrusive magical thoughts. Stone being an insulator, the bits in that fight about the forest not being friendly to athel loren, the Bird injecting memories of its speech into her. Any other examples people remember? Because I'm starting to think we should be wearing a tin foil hat to keep stuff out lol.
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The options presented to voters throughout the Sylvanian campaign often included variations on "Let's do Dhar, it's totally cool", which Boney mentioned were explicitly intrusive thoughts from the effect of the province's ambient Dhar on Mathilde's mind. E.g.
  • "[ ] There is an awful lot of Dhar around. And it is, you've heard, easy to use and quite empowering..." during the run-up to the Drachenhof assault
  • "[ ] Dhar lies thick in the air. You just need a little. Just enough to give a Grey Wizard the power to heal..." after Abelhelm was wounded,
  • Fully half the options for the Liber Mortis, etc.
Boney said:
If you had [the belt] in Sylvania you would have just had to deal with occasional minor flashfires on your skin instead of those ominous 'go on, raise the dead, you know you want to' options popping up all over the place.
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Wiggy said:
Man, I was rereading the drycha fight, and it occurs to me that Mathilde has run into a weirdly high amount of intrusive magical thoughts. Stone being an insulator, the bits in that fight about the forest not being friendly to athel loren, the Bird injecting memories of its speech into her. Any other examples people remember? Because I'm starting to think we should be wearing a tin foil hat to keep stuff out lol.
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In the Trouble in Talabheim updates when chasing Alberich, we had some maybe-ulric, maybe-taal, maybe-korne influence/blessing, from what i recall
 
mathymancer said:
That's fine, though - we want people looking at it. It doesn't actually have to look like natural causes at first glance, it only needs to be plausible that the killer intended it to look like natural causes. A knife through the chest doesn't achieve that, but some sort of internal wound that according to expert testimony doesn't look quite right could easily be a botched attempt to fake natural causes. A ruptured spleen, for example, can bleed quite a bit, and the blood can spread over a large area. Maybe the Lahmian assassin wanted to fake that but got a bit overzealous?
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I did say something like that in my original post, yeah- that the increased likelihood of having people look at it wasn't necessarily a bad thing.
Nurgle said:
Ok so why are so many people voting for the matrix while it takes a hour? That is a complication that means Mathilde could be found out
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Mostly confidence that we're unlikely to be interrupted by anything that can actually detect us in that hour, I think. Vlad won't be waking up due to Mockery of Death, and Mathilde will presumably be using Substance of Shadow to be invisible- something that lasts until she ends it or sufficiently bright light is shone on her, no concentration required. Basically, even if somebody walks in they won't be able to see Mathilde without some form of wind sight, and there's no mundanely visible signs to her casting. While there is an increased risk of being discovered, Mathilde's skills and the spells she has access to should keep it as an incredibly small one.
 
Nurgle said:
Ok so why are so many people voting for the matrix while it takes a hour? That is a complication that means Mathilde could be found out
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The voters for that option judge the effect of the Matrix worth the added risk (entirely internal wounds that are obviously magical on examination, especially with the heavy lingering Ulgu from the Matrix itself).
The voters for the other option judge that it's not worth the added risk.

The camps are pretty settled I think at this point, so it's down to personal risk tolerance and your opinion on whether the Matrix effect is better for our purposes. People on both sides have put forward scenarios in their favour, but everyone's got their own ideas on which are relevant or relatively likely.
 
Abby Normal said:
In the Trouble in Talabheim updates when chasing Alberich, we had some maybe-ulric, maybe-taal, maybe-korne influence/blessing, from what i recall
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And that was because Mathilde decided to Howl to signal Taalites in the city of the God of the Wild, which is also contested by the God of Wolves, and she did so by channeling a Wolf whose soul she's connected to. Sometimes Mathilde practically invites Gods to crash into her headspace, but then again, that's why we have Avatar.
 
Reminds me of this Terry Pratchett quote:

First Thoughts are the everyday thoughts. Everyone has those. Second Thoughts are the thoughts you think about the way you think. People who enjoy thinking have those. Third Thoughts are thoughts that watch the world and think all by themselves. They're rare, and often troublesome. Listening to them is part of witchcraft.
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Except Mathilde, being Ulgu, has turtles thoughts all the way down—and only most of them are hers. Good thing those thoughts are all paranoid little buggers. Like a spy agency tasked to investigate itself.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Reminds me of this Terry Pratchett quote:

Except Mathilde, being Ulgu, has turtles thoughts all the way down—and only most of them are hers. Good thing those thoughts are all paranoid little buggers. Like a spy agency tasked to investigate itself.
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Hmm...
modified Terry Pratchett quote said:
"What kind of human creates her own witch hunter?"
"One who fears the dark."
"And so she should," said Dhar Insight, with satisfaction.
"Indeed. But I think you misunderstand. I am not here to keep the darkness out. I am here to keep it in." There was a clink of metal as the tall Witch Hunter lifted a dark lantern and opened its little door. Orange light cut through the blackness. "Call me… the Guarding Shadow. Imagine how strong I must be."
Dhar Insight backed desperately into the alley, but the light followed it, burning it.
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Glau said:
Or, you know, a candle.
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I don't think a candle is enough illumination to dispel a shadow spell.

Like, they're synonymous with 'a light', but a modern handheld flashlight and an actual analogue candle differ in intensity by orders of magnitude. If you light one candle, a room is still in shadow, is what I'm trying to say.

One candle couldn't reveal that a normal person isn't a creepy shadow person; ergo it shouldn't unveil an actual creepy shadow person unless they're basically touching us with the open flame, I think.
 
chocolote12 said:
I don't think a candle is enough illumination to dispel a shadow spell.

Like, they're synonymous with 'a light', but a modern handheld flashlight and an actual analogue candle differ in intensity by orders of magnitude. If you light one candle, a room is still in shadow, is what I'm trying to say.

One candle couldn't reveal that a normal person isn't a creepy shadow person; ergo it shouldn't unveil an actual creepy shadow person unless they're basically touching us with the open flame, I think.
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I'm going by the way we were coached to look at risk when we went into the sunken river monitor: a light on the other side of the door would have forced us into reality in the door. There wasn't a 'a candle isn't bright enough' qualifier, so I'd like to see more textual support before I buy into your opinion.

As for the other responses: yes, Mathilde has a large number of ways to deal with an innocent civilian, and some even leave them alive.

But that wasn't the point. The point is, a servant walking in unexpectedly with a candle could, with very little luck, break substance of shadows and force one of those responses. +/- chance of scream.
 
Glau said:
But that wasn't the point. The point is, a servant walking in unexpectedly with a candle could, with very little luck, break substance of shadows and force one of those responses. +/- chance of scream.
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As others note, us aborting our spell to stab him with shadow-knives and then vanishing in this situation is actually verging on a best case scenario if the escape wasn't tricky. Like, even assuming you are correct, this would arguably be good for us...it's certainly acceptable. Having our ritual interrupted and needing to kill him more overtly but still with shadow-magic right in front of a witness? That's near perfect assuming we can get away and given our ability to, among other things, teleport, I'm pretty sure we can.
 
Mopman43 said:
Boney's response to the idea was "it works because it's magic".

I don't think you're going to be able to debate him into agreeing with you.

Edit: Weber'd.
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I was not trying to debate anything just trying to figure out what he thought the way the Spell targeted memories was and it's limits. Just saying it destroys all memories linked to the being casting the spell in any way works for me. I want to understand how Boney has the spell work so I know for sure what we can and can't do with it.

JayTar said:
Why is Nighttime Heart Attack considered a good idea? Doesn't Matrix + Shadow Dagger have a non-negligible chance for a knife to come flying out of his chest?

How exactly would that be explained?
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The QM has said the chance that the Shadow Knife leaves his body is small and plus it is clearly a murder that could only have been done with Magic which is what Boris wants so he can make people think the Vampires assassinated his father.
 
I need to stop my engagement with the risk debate since it feels circular and unproductive, but I do feel as though there is a cognitive dissonance in the thread between how much people like to puff up Mathilde's skills and achievements as one of the best suited to assassination in the Old World, and yet when push comes to shove they treat her as if she were a complete novice incapable of reacting/adapting to simple circumstances.

A single candle will expose her and mundane guards and servants can simply "walk in on her" at first glance. And if she's discovered, there won't be anything she can do and the plot is ruined. The sheer contrast is boggling and toes the line of fear mongering.

Edit: found the post. Apparently there's single digit numbers of people in the Old World that can match what Mathilde does, and none of them can hide from unsuspecting mooks for an hour, or pull off a back up plan if exposed.

Glau said:
But that wasn't the point. The point is, a servant walking in unexpectedly with a candle could, with very little luck, break substance of shadows and force one of those responses. +/- chance of scream.
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So you do not in fact believe a Grey Lady Magister has the skill/tools/repertoire to evade or neutralize a mundane person that is unaware of anything suspicious. And that the Grey Lady Magister is incapable of adapting to a change in circumstance and switching to a simpler method if the first one runs into complications.
 
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Also remember that she's been doing this whole operation in disguise, so someone walking in wont see Mathilde Weber, or even a Grey Magister, doing the assassination. Which is the actually secret part.
 
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