Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
That barely stopped Rasputin—and only after he had been poisoned, shot, and stabbed.

Edit—oh gods we've come full circle.
Actually Rasputin's legendary durability is exaggerated, his actual cause of death seems to have been three gunshot wounds and his repeated survival of things that should have killed him was made up as propaganda to imply that his survival was the result of him consorting with the devil (seriously). But then everyone ignored the whole he was actually a servant of Satan thing and all pop history remembers is "wow that guy was tough".
 
Baba Yaga gets brought up because Kislev is Russian-ish, and of course that sort of thing was obviously very influential on the Hag Witches once you hit the mid-2000s, but especially for the first decade I think the main influence is a different folkloric figure.


(It's worth pointing out that 'Ice Magic is solely and exclusively used by women' only becomes a thing in Realm of the Ice Queen, prior to that in sources such as 1e Realms of Sorcery, Ice Magic is female-dominated but still open to male users. The Dark Omen series of videogames from the mid-90s actually had male Ice Magic users, with the named example being Vladimir Stormbringer)
Holy deja vu Batman, I just remembered this story, it is probably one of the first books I read by myself when I was a little kid but didn't really remember the name.

Yeah I don't like most fairy tales looking back as an adult and I don't remember liking them as kid but this one I love.
 
I am pretty aure that with our killiness and disguise spells we could hijack a small tribe of goblins and ambush the Tzar

Thus being us the reason he actually died in canon
 
There's explicitly a prophecy, that a Male Ice Witch 'will corrupt the pure flows of Ice Magic, changing it forever'.

I wonder what the world would look like after, if the fulfillment of this prophecy had space to breath without getting piled on by a ton of other events.

Troll country would expand to the borders of Nordland, which would presumably have a huge flood of refugees and probably a few pretty large cities in the years after, becoming surprisingly cosmopolitan as the traders and others rebuild their lives and connections.

There'd probably be a number who fled to the other side of the Eastern mountains, so maybe a successor state anchored by Vlag that returns to a more nomadic tribal culture, while remaining order-aligned? Chance for a Good army full of horse archers.

The real question is whether the 'corrupted' ice magic would be hostile or hospitable to chaos. Assuming hospitable, we might see chaos shift too, with a few actual chaos cities and a dark mirror of Kislev aesthetics. If it's hostile, we might see a new Althel Loren, where humans tied to the land mutate and are driven slightly mad- so an anti-chaos beastmen faction?

It's fun to think about borders actually changing, and centers of civilization moving around. Like, what if Nekehara were cleansed, but the Reik basin lost, so the remnants of the empire had to reconstitute themselves in an unfamiliar land as refugees, a diaspora trying desperately to restore the land's fertility? Or what if the southern citystates had a golden age, and conquered the southern half of the empire? With Altdorf and Nuln in Talian hands, the remainder of the empire would probably regress quite a lot in terms of tech and military formations. Sigmarism would probably become a hidden cult?
 
So for killing methods, I see a few: First, an accident. We aren't especially skilled at this. We don't know poisons, we don't know have the deceiver enabled, we don't have a way to control an animal during a hunt, etc. Our best bet is a falling chandelier or something similar, but that's risky (he could dodge). If he ever walks someplace relevant, a slip and fall would work, but that's luck dependent.

Second, make it embarrassing, so that when a cover up is discovered, there's a decent 'answer' to be found, one that isn't murder. A classic is autoerotic asphyxiation screw up, but that's almost certainly slaaneshi related, so IDK if that's a good idea. Plus, if people don't know about it in popular culture, it doesn't work the same, and it's likely too out of character.

Third, pin it on someone else. Skaven are a great option here (prety much the only option), but IDK if there's an undercity for Praag.

Quite simply, we don't want to rely on a cover up if possible. Each extra person who knows is one more problem.
 
Honestly, we should do very simple thing of casting mockery of death while the man is asleep and then slitting his throat. Straightforward, fits our specialties, few failure points unlike other plans.
 
They'd probably prefer someone like Regimand, LM-level skill without the level of endorsement officially being promoted to LM would bring making him more deniable. That might be part of why they don't insist on promoting him, he's a good deniable asset for politically sensitive operations like high profile assassinations. And the assassination of the Empress was him fulfilling that role without his superiors even knowing that they should be asking him to do such a thing.

Regimand isn't quite LM-level skill. He's a very good Magister, but there's still a difference between a very good Magister and a LM.

Fuller answer: Regimand is good at Grey Wizarding, that's why he made Magister. He's been good at Grey Wizarding for a long time, which has made him very good at it. He's built up a lot of contacts and experience and knowledge over the years. This is what you should expect of any Grey Wizard of advanced age: that they are very good at whatever their job happens to be. The Journeyman examinations are stringent enough that almost all Magisters turn out to be damn good Magisters, and unlike the other Orders the Grey Order doesn't let its Wizards just take a nice cozy sinecure somewhere reading the palms of rich old ladies or whatever, and yet over 90% of them will die as Magisters. This is not a failure on their part. It's not one of those things where if you've punched the clock long enough without punching your boss you'll get the promotion eventually, and if you don't something must be wrong with you. Lord Magister requires more than that. You need to be considered exceptionally loyal, exceptionally able, exceptionally reliable, and exceptionally experienced. Regimand could be argued to tick the reliable and experienced boxes, but his ability has plateaued and the whole conspiracy thing muddied the waters enough that there's some questions even though most of the details of that never got out. If he really wanted Lord Magister he could push himself harder to increase his abilities, do something to prove his allegiances, or find a Great Deed to do to waive one of those boxes, and possibly die in the attempt... but he doesn't want it. He wants to do what he's already doing.

He doesn't get promoted because he doesn't have the ability expected of an LM, and isn't quite trusted enough. He could conceivably angle for a promotion, but he doesn't want it. Which is a bit different from 'they want to promote him but he doesn't want it' or 'they don't promote him to make him more deniable'.

I'd also like the point out that the latter probably isn't something they'd do regardless- all Grey LMs are 'deniable', for the most part. The Grey Patriarch is widely thought to be dead.

There are very few LMs because the bar for entry is extremely high.

And I think that, ultimately, they'd much rather an LM be doing things like this if things like this need to be done. Being trusted to get up to this kind of thing is what being an LM means.
 
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Honestly, we should do very simple thing of casting mockery of death while the man is asleep and then slitting his throat. Straightforward, fits our specialties, few failure points unlike other plans.
And leave him obviously assassinated? While the point is for his son to take the throne without open conflict? The goal is not to have a dead Tzar for its own sake, but a smooth transition of power to Boris.
 
While I know its not an option, and bearing in mind that I know they'd prefer to never hear about this, I am curious:
If the assassination gets accepted, would the Grays prefer that a regular magister was the one who agreed, so it was more easily deniable as a rogue asset rather than a Lord Magister who should be expected to be able to speak for the empire and its interests. Or would this regular magister really be overstepping their rank to attempt something like this and they'd prefer it in the hands of more experienced LM? Or would it be that success changes what the next big problem they're looking at, and if the assassination fails they'd prefer a magister they disavowed failed and if it succeeded they'd prefer it was a LM they trusted.

The Grey Order isn't built to ever be in the position to make that decision, so there isn't really an answer that exists to this question. The closest you'd get is that the Grey Order would hope that the Grey Wizard that finds themselves on the spot, whatever their rank, uses their best judgement.

I was probably exaggerating, but I've literally never heard the Ungols mentioned other then as an underclass and it's talked about a lot on their wiki page:

"[The Kossars] are now a combined force of Ungol and Gospodars, an attempt to bind the two peoples together within the Kislevite military as well as in the wider culture."
"Piss-drinker is a term of derision for those Kislevites who live in the most northern regions of the Old World, referencing the Ungol..."
"[Ungol Horse Archers] are watched over closely by the Gospodars for any signs of disloyalty"

I was talking about half remembered lore and I now recognize this is almost entirely over and done with (In the bad way), but I'm under the impression that the Ungols and their traditions still exist as a minority and they still face discrimination.

That's not quite the dynamic in the current era, they're more two parallel cultures rather than an outright overclass and underclass, with Gospodars and Ungols mostly having their own settlements and the two peoples only really intermixing in the three major cities - sort of like a personal union. It works fine under Vladimir and would continue to under canon-Boris' reign, but it caused a lot of problems and tension when Katarin tried to crash-centralize Kislev.

The clear inspiration for the dynamic is the long and complicated history in Eastern Europe with the settled nobility being at times clashing with, at times keeping at arms length, and at other times granting privileges to the semi-nomadic Cossack tribes that lived throughout their lands.
 
Parenthood
Parenthood

Mathilde Weber had never truly considered the concept of parenthood.

The less that was said about her parents, those imbeciles who gave away their daughter to be sacrificed out of superstition, the better. For all intents and purposes, she didn't have parents. One could argue, and perhaps a part of her does believe so, that Regimand was the closest she had to a parental figure. He certainly taught her the ways of the Wizard, which she had built her life around after she left her past behind. Yet, she had never truly considered whether what she had was what most people would consider "parenthood".

The most common ideal of such a relationship was one that was biologically determined. According to some of the books she had read, giving birth was supposed to impart some sort of connection between mother and child that transcended the physical plane, what they called "unconditional love". Mathilde was of the mind that it was all hogwash. Unconditional love didn't exist, it was all conditional, she knew that firsthand.

Of course, you didn't need to be biologically related to have these relationships, but usually, the process involved a parent raising a child. And that is where the second concept that Mathilde struggled with came into play.

Children. Kids. Mathilde was never good with those.

She found them profoundly annoying and a nuisance at the worst, and at the best she simply didn't know what to do with them. They were unstable balls of energy and Mathilde could never predict them. She never found them "adorable" or "cute" as some others tend to call them.

Perhaps this was because Mathilde preferred, and enjoyed, intellectual company, and kids were perhaps one of the furthest from that ideal. Or perhaps it was because she had been robbed of her own childhood and never came to terms with it, so she never understood what it was like to be one, and her envy became distaste. She didn't care enough for introspection on a topic that she didn't care much about either way. The end result was that she didn't really like children, and if she needed a dose of "cuteness" she had Wolf to keep her company.

It helped that she was in a relationship that didn't demand having children. She was a noble, but there was no pressure on her continuing the bloodline, and her paramour did not desire to continue her family's legacy enough to insist on having one. While Panoramia did not possess the necessary equipment to have a child with her in the typical way, there were more than enough alternatives if they really wanted to. But did they? All signs pointed towards a "probably not". Mathilde didn't really know what Panoramia's opinion on having children was, and they never broached the topic, but the two loved each other's company, scarce as it was to find an opportunity in these busy and turbulent times, and a child would only get in the way of that.

The question then becomes, why was she even thinking about all of this.

She found herself, as usual then, thinking about Eike.

Mathilde never really thought much of the kid when she first met her. That precocious and curious kid that possessed a wisdom beyond her years, and was placed with the burden of inheriting a legacy thrust onto her as a result of abandonment. She was firmly squared into the "not her problem" category, and that would usually be the end of that.

Everything changed when it turned out she had magical potential.

What a coincidence it was for a friend of hers to have a gifted child capable of magic and for Mathilde to be the one to find her. Some part of her was jealous of how fortunate Eike was, Mathilde certainly would have preferred a less traumatic way of being introduced to magic, but another part of her was relieved. Eike wouldn't have to live through what she did, and that was okay with her.

Mathilde could have left her at that. She discovered Eike's magical talent and she could have just passed her onto the Colleges and washed her hand of the matter. And yet. She did not.

Instead, she decided to keep visiting the kid, who grew to be a teen, in the dormitories of the Grey College. There was a bittersweet feeling to sharing a part of her life with a kid who she'd grown to be fond of, one who was eager to learn and become better. Perhaps there was a part of Mathilde that enjoyed imparting knowledge. Scratch that, she knew there was a part of her that loved it. That was the whole point of the Ducklings. Her nosiness knew no bounds and she kept getting into other people's business and trying her best to make their lives better. Mathilde didn't know exactly where that came from, it's not like the Grey College or Regimand insinuated that networking involved such a connection with her contacts. She just felt like it.

Their relationship grew from then on, and she decided to follow through. She would become Eike's master.

The reality of the matter, however, is that Mathilde never really considered how eager of a student Eike was.

Mathilde was unreasonably flattered when she found out how much Eike respected and admired her. It was humbling to be a positive figure to an impressionable teenager, and it was more so when she could see and help develop that teenager into what would undoubtedly be one of the Empire's foremost assets. There was no doubt in Mathilde's mind that Eike was exceptional. It wasn't simply talent or luck, although Mathilde couldn't help feeling a little jealous at how quickly Eike picked up new things or how lucky she was to get the Mark of Ulgu. That talent, that luck, was accompanied by a voracious hunger for knowledge and improvement that reminded Mathilde of herself.

Mathilde was well aware of how comically obsessed with books most people viewed her to be, and to be fair, they were right. But the reason behind it was a simple insatiable desire for knowledge. Mathilde resonated with Ulgu in a way that most Grey Wizards did not, and it manifested in a way that wouldn't be out of place on a Light Wizard, as much as she would hate to admit it.

That same desire for knowledge and drive for improvement was present in Eike, and Mathilde couldn't help but feel proud. It was then that Mathilde began questioning the concept of parenthood.

Mathilde had never desired to have a child, and she might never desire to have one. And yet, she couldn't help but feel a degree of what it must feel to be a parent to look at the way Eike was shaping to be. Mathilde wondered if Regimand had felt the same. He was never all that open with his emotions. She wondered if she could, or even if she would, ever get such an admission out of him. She also wondered if she could ever let Eike find out how proud she was.

Probably not. It would get to her head. She couldn't have that, it would make her a bigger target.
 
What was acceptable to cishet white men in the 80s and 90s was vastly different to what was acceptable to queer people of color and women. The only difference in modern day society is that people started to notice we exist and made accomodations.
The idea of women-only magic is and has been a feminist concept, coming up in feminist novels and whatnot.
The idea that magic systems should never be gender-segregated could easily be weaponised as a critique of genuine feminist works.
Example in a spoiler below:
IDK if you have read The Power, a novel by a british feminist that came out in 2021 (Atwood wrote it a glowing review). Well it did just that.
I didn't actually like the book, but it's an immediate example of "women-only magic" being used by women that I could find offhand

Similarly, the real world is full of magical traditions"only accessible to women" (magic isn't real of course, I'm talking about people's beliefs). I'm not talking about medieval european witch hunts, here. "Only women have this magic" isn't a white male idea, it's surprisingly common actually. Ask me for examples in 6 hours if you want some.

My point is that just because GW used it in a sexist and objectifying manner doesn't mean that it wasn't also being used as a feminist thing in the same era. Which it was !



Another example of this general principle are stories in which all men stop existing. Obviously this has been used in a mysoginistic manner, sometimes even by authors trying to be feminist ("Y, the last man", I'm looking at you). But it's also been a feminist concept ! Think of Gilman's Herland, written by Charlotte Perkins around a century ago. Or The Female Man by Joanna Russ, from the 1970s.
Are these good tropes ? No. Are they still popular today? Not so much, but they are still around and feminists still write such books. Has this concept also been used by mysoginistic white men ? Yes !
 
The creators were right, and I suggest you internalize more "don't like, don't read" instead of presuming to order how doubly-fictional magical traditions "should" be.
Yes, I stopped reading WHF. I'm glad you told me to do something I was already doing. If it wasn't for this quest I wouldn't be engaging in this setting. But as we are discussing the setting within this thread, I feel perfectly comfortable speaking on my opinion in regards to the material.
 
The idea of women-only magic is and has been a feminist concept, coming up in feminist novels and whatnot.
The idea that magic systems should never be gender-segregated could easily be weaponised as a critique of genuine feminist works.
Example in a spoiler below:
IDK if you have read The Power, a novel by a british feminist that came out in 2021 (Atwood wrote it a glowing review). Well it did just that.
I didn't actually like the book, but it's an immediate example of "women-only magic" being used by women that I could find offhand

Similarly, the real world is full of magical traditions"only accessible to women" (magic isn't real of course, I'm talking about people's beliefs). I'm not talking about medieval european witch hunts, here. "Only women have this magic" isn't a white male idea, it's surprisingly common actually. Ask me for examples in 6 hours if you want some.

My point is that just because GW used it in a sexist and objectifying manner doesn't mean that it wasn't also being used as a feminist thing in the same era. Which it was !



Another example of this general principle are stories in which all men stop existing. Obviously this has been used in a mysoginistic manner, sometimes even by authors trying to be feminist ("Y, the last man", I'm looking at you). But it's also been a feminist concept ! Think of Gilman's Herland, written by Charlotte Perkins around a century ago. Or The Female Man by Joanna Russ, from the 1970s.
Are these good tropes ? No. Are they still popular today? Not so much, but they are still around and feminists still write such books. Has this concept also been used by mysoginistic white men ? Yes !
Alright? I was talking about GW's depiction of women in the setting, not the concept of women only magic being inherently problematic. I don't care if you want to do women only magic or male only magic, insofar as the source material actually does it well.
 
"Only women have this magic" isn't a white male idea, it's surprisingly common actually.

Ironically enough though, the first example that springs to mind, seidr, was very much a thing restricted to women by white men. Usually by ostracizing or outlawing the ergi who learned it, despite the saga's example of Odin.

I think this might be where the trope of manly men with swords vs effeminate magic users that came to fruition in Conan might have started?
 
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