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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Deathbybunnies said:
In the long term though, I think that other parties coming in to trade will only tie the Empire and the Eonir together. Overall, I expect this to be a net benefit to Empire-Laurelorn relations, which is why I'm not concerned about taking it. (I would also like a big pile of money please, but that's not relevant to the political calculus.)
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i am actually also coming around the trade somewhat. we have now seen what nordlands move was, and it went the religious route which we are pretty well isolated from. i just want people to understand that this will be a very loud noise on the market. and people will want to know why a middling trading house from stirland is buying up all the ithilmar in the empire...
 
Mopman43 said:
I mean, we know a fair amount of what they want? Ingots, ore, charcoal, worked stone, spices, etc.
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I meant if we could not just get gold for Ilthimar but trade for other things too. Like the possible shadow bridge can possible net the colleges a tutor. I figure that the elves would like to spend less gold and trade in other goods or service .
 
Nurgle said:
I meant if we could not just get gold for Ilthimar but trade for other things too. Like the possible shadow bridge can possible net the colleges a tutor. I figure that the elves would like to spend less gold and trade in other goods or service .
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Do we actually have a quote for the tutor aside from boney saying "the eonir would be willing to reward the building of magical bridges." Because that's the only one I've seen so far...
 
[X] [LIBRARY] Back-fill: Social sciences
[X] [COLLEGE] A translation of the Indic Aqshy books obtained from the Elementalists (1 CF)
 
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Derpmind said:
Oh.

Every book we add to Kron-Azril-Ungol also, by extension, becomes part of the Library-We's memory. And the Library-We is too young to get a pile of romance novels dropped in there. Other kinds of fiction would be ok, but not romance. :(

[X] [LIBRARY] Back-fill: Social sciences
[X] [LIBRARY] Library of Mournings: Linguistics, Hoeth
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For what it's worth, the way the minds of The We work makes it seem like the splits are as much or more like forking (transhumanist/artificial intelligence style) as like being born. And the pre-split We was a romance option back in the day.

... That said. As funny as it would be to reprise Omagahugger's old posts in favor of introducing The We to human society with a side possibility of becoming romance novel enthusiasts (or funnier, novelists) another possibility occurs to me.

Adventure novels.

Mathilde had a number back during her time as an apprentice. Eike reads them currently. The Library-We is now in their own odd kind of apprenticeship. It certainly sounds like a recipe for adorable hilarity. If they do get into it enough to end up with spider-novelists... Well, adventure novels written by a librarian with full access to and knowledge of one of the greatest libraries in the world, all at once, would be quite a thing.

It's not like we have much to worry about. What are the odds that an ex-librarian with close ties to the Gunnery School of Karag Nar, a strong friendship with the Dawi, and far, far too many old adventure novels running through their collective mind could end up sicking an adventure-hungry pack of spiders on the world?

...Or swashbuckle-hungry for that matter, given Eike's personal interests and the transport logistics of a We. *imagines a trade ship at once home to and crewed entirely by a full colony of spiders for a moment*
 
About the Ithilmar trade I have to say my first tought is that people are overthinking the atention that is going to atract.

The fact is the action is all about taking advantage of the diference between the exorbitante price the metal has in the Empire and the even more Exorbitante one the Eonir are willing to pay to make a large profit, so once we do it people will notice and realize realize the metal is more precious than originaly expected, the market will adjust and there will never be another chance of making so much money doing this again. That is the inevitable very real dowside of atracting that much attention in the first place.

Now of couse there is the potential that this will atract Nordland/The Sigmarites to do something to us specificaly, but on one hand is questionable if the have the attention to spare, they have been very occupied already dealing with the fallout of the Eonir-Middleland alliance, so in a way they are already trying to make this difficult, and even if they wanted to make things difficult for us in particular, between having the ear of the Empress, being a Lady Magister and a specialy a Dwarf in good standing there is only so much they can do before inviting more trouble they can chew when they already have their hands full.

So overrall I would say the real big risk is that we would lose our first move advantage and may want to leave Ithilmar for last, but beyond that I don't see how this would cause the existing oposition to find untaped reserves of effort to point towards us.
 
[X] [LIBRARY] Library of Mournings: Linguistics, Ladrielle
[X] [COLLEGE] A translation of the Indic Aqshy books obtained from the Elementalists (1 CF)
[X] [DWARF] No purchase.
 
About the Ithilmar trade, next turn our EIC action is going to be going towards getting the Eonir to make a magical pathway for trade. (Likely using the RoW, of course.) So any Ithilmar trading is going to have to wait until turn 43 at the earliest.
 
The EIC may have the ready capital to start making multiple purchases worth thousands of gold without attracting more attention than the sudden snap purchase of Ithilmar collections itself would attract.

Mathilde does not have the cash reserves to do so. If you want Mathilde, personally, to profit, she would need to take loans- of tens of thousand of gold- to do so. Yes, she knows some people who could afford to front that. But taking those loans seems it would add another layer of visibility (and some financial risk) to the exercise.

Then when it comes to the Vow of Poverty and tetchy Bursars- are we sure the 'we could get away with it' covers anything other than the original framing of an EIC action, where the EIC is making the purchases and one-time windfall profit? I'd be surprised if it covers Mathilde personally enriching Lady Magister Mathilde Weber, Empire Envoy to Laurelorn through speculative trades?
 
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The Phoenixian said:
...Or swashbuckle-hungry for that matter, given Eike's personal interests and the transport logistics of a We. *imagines a trade ship at once home to and crewed entirely by a full colony of spiders for a moment*
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If spider silk sails become a thing before we get silk sheets we riot.

On another note, do we have any insight into how the We perceive fiction? Like, I assume lying was brought up in the cultural classes, but false book memories being inserted into their library brain might throw them for a loop. Hm.
 
I'm rereading (again), and I've found some interesting things.

Boney said:
And while the Matrix may be far from the first interesting trick, I invite you to imagine what the upper classes of the Empire would pay to have a voice-activated healing spell bound within them at all times, or to have bodyguards that have one-shot magical blessings available at a moment's notice. It's a solid middle ground for those unable to afford a wizard full-time, but still well-off enough to buy a few hours of their time.
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Our first paper probably did more for the Jade College than it did for ours.

Boney said:
This is near enough to spot on. The plan is based on trying to keep the advantage of undead tirelessness from telling. The Knights charged the gate to form a hole, the second wave ran to the gate to reinforce it and relieve the knights, the dwarves (slower but more tireless) form a third wave to reinforce the second and take the walls, and the fourth wave advances in number and at a march so they arrive in overwhelming numbers and ready for combat, pushing past the beachhead in the gate and into the town.

At least, that was the plan. It very much did not survive first contact with the enemy. How it broke down will be examined in-character.
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You know, I don't think we ever got the in-character explanation for how the attack went wrong, and I can't remember the out-of-character explanation either.
 
Oh cool, I think I found a racism.

WFRP 2e: Old World Armoury, page 13

I just wanted to find out what kind of silk products were available in the Empire.
 
infinityDivided said:
You know, I don't think we ever got the in-character explanation for how the attack went wrong, and I can't remember the out-of-character explanation either.
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Basically, the troops had spent months fighting 'wild' undead that are all even more mindless than the Necromancer-controlled variety.

They got complacent and the charge collapsed when the undead they were charging actually reacted.
 
[X] [LIBRARY] Barak Varr booksellers: Druchii of Naggaroth, Ten Kingdoms of Ulthuan, Kingdom of Nehekhara

Mostly just because I really like the Tomb Kings faction.
 
infinityDivided said:
You know, I don't think we ever got the in-character explanation for how the attack went wrong, and I can't remember the out-of-character explanation either.
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I think this might help.
Boney said:
"As far as I can tell, the charge was a complete failure, and we were the only ones to penetrate enemy lines."
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Boney said:
Our charge succeeded, but everyone else's failed. By the time the Dwarves of Zhufbar reached us..." You sigh, and drink deeply. "So I killed Castle Drakenhof."
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Wiggy said:
If spider silk sails become a thing before we get silk sheets we riot.

On another note, do we have any insight into how the We perceive fiction? Like, I assume lying was brought up in the cultural classes, but false book memories being inserted into their library brain might throw them for a loop. Hm.
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The first idea that comes to mind is the We perceiving fiction as a hypothetical exercise in mapping out interpersonal interactions and scenarios.

Seems in keeping with the character of the We being fairly logical in approach.

And, also, is part of why I've been wondering if a future where the Librarian-We picks up a taste for novels is one where they might be poised to invent science fiction. Combining a literally encyclopedic knowledge of sciences and philosophies with a logical mind and a taste for thought experiments/the hypothetical seems like the sort of thing that would give rise to that genre.

I just couldn't find a good arachnid pun for Jules Verne or another early science fiction author and went with spider-pirates instead.
 
Potus said:
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I'm so happy
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I think you're trying to display an image hosted on gmail that the rest of us don't have permission to see. At least that's what I think is happening, the URL is a confusing mess but I do recognize "mail.google.com" "attid" which I'm guessing might stand for "attachment id" and "permmsgid" the first part of which is presumably short for "permission" and the second part "gid" I have no clue but it presumably restricts who can view it. If you rehost it on another host like imgur it should work.
 
Glau said:
Help I got carried away



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The Apprentice Arc:

MARKUS KEHLMANN and the PLAGUE THAT WASN'T

MARKUS was having a very bad night. He had been asleep, the traveller was rude, it was raining, and the horse had bit him. But it got very much worse when the traveller was brutally murdered in front of him, the horse stolen, and he was left hiding with the saddlebags he had been coming to return.

Now, everyone from crazy prophetesses to one-eyed mercs to treacherous guardsmen wants a piece of him, and the secret that was in those bags.

Somewhere under Altdorf lies a terrible concoction of poison and plague, aimed like a dagger at the heart of an unknowing city, and no less than three different dark cults want it badly enough to kill in the streets.

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MARKUS KEHLMANN and the WELL-HOOKED BAIT

Fresh off his induction into the GREY WIZARDS, the former stableboy is sent to explore the city and learn how to look when looking with magic. What he sees instead is a kidnapping, and not just one. The docks of Altdorf are growing dangerous, and once the pleas of heartbroken relatives reach his ears MARKUS KEHLMANN knows he has no choice but to act.

But the vicious HOOK GANG is fishing for bigger prizes than nobles daughters and petty merchants, and if he isn't careful, he might get snagged himself.

Even with new comrades like fellow apprentice EKIE HOTHSCHILDE and Jeffrey, a BRETTONIAN SQUIRE seeking word of his brother-squire, the mystery of where the victims are being sent and why won't be easily solved.

Are new magic and new friends make enough to save everyone, or will MARKUS KEHLMANN join them in a FATE WORSE THAN DEATH?



MARKUS KEHLMANN and the PURPLE SUBMARINE

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OK, that last one might not be so hot.

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The Journeyman Arc:

MARKUS KEHLMANN and the REFOUNDED FOUNDRY

MARKUS KEHLMANN and the PRINCESS OF SKULLS

MARKUS KEHLMANN and the SPIDER'S RIDDLE


Check back soon for The Mastery Arc and The Grandmaster's War Arc announcements!
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You did not, you absolute mad-person!
 
reignonyrparade said:
I mean we are kinda scamming people, just on the other end, presenting the goods that we're buying from them as LESS valuable than they are.
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Not especially, I don't think. As Candesce noted, if the people who are selling to us were in a position to sell directly to Laurelorn, they might be able to get more - though they might not unless they're also in a position to buy up Ithilimar in bulk like the EIC is doing - but that's more or less just how trading works. You buy things that are not considered particularly valuable in one place, and you sell them somewhere that they are highly valued.
 
Derpmind said:
Every book we add to Kron-Azril-Ungol also, by extension, becomes part of the Library-We's memory. And the Library-We is too young to get a pile of romance novels dropped in there. Other kinds of fiction would be ok, but not romance. :(
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I disagree, we voted to let the We take charge of their own education and we shouldn't interfere by restricting the material they can educate themselves with. Romance novels would introduce them to an incredibly important component of non-We cultures, letting them understand others better. They could learn about how it works, the social mores and taboos that surround it, even the Overly Vulgar Romance books we have would help them learn how romance and sex interact as well as the contrast in how the romance either circumvents the subject of sex or focuses on it, how such novels are both publicly taboo yet privately popular. They deserve to have the opportunity to learn.

Plus for all we know it might inspire the We to try exploring romantic relationships for themself. To quote Boney:
Boney said:
Discussion of the We:

The sexuality of the We is difficult to map onto terms developed to describe human sexuality. The way they ensure genetic diversity is they either deliberately exchange Web-Weavers with other We, or Hunters go rogue and wander around until they find another We and are absorbed into it. In either case sexual reproduction does occur but at that point the individual components involved are all part of the one We. At that point it wouldn't even be accurate to call it masturbation, it's just normal internal mechanisms that rarely require any actual conscious thought or emotional engagement, the way a human usually doesn't have to think about the day-to-day operation of their internal organs. Parthenogenesis or self-pollination might be the best description for it, but biology isn't my strong suit.

So a form of romance the We might recognize as such would be an extended mutual evaluation and then a mutual expression of interest, then an exchange of gifts, at which point the relationship is fulfilled and the two go their separate ways. You can adapt most of that quite easily into cultural terms we'd recognize - flirting, dating, and marriage. The only real sticking point is that We relationships end immediately after that final culmination, but the Karak's We has already recognized the possibility for peaceful and mutually beneficial prolonged relationships, so even that would not necessarily have been a sticking point. And the We could be considered asexual in the non-biological sense - their understanding of sex is as a means to an end performed by an individual, not as an act of intimacy between individuals.
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The We seem to be asexual or have a concept of sexuality so alien that it appears to be effectively asexual to us but asexuality isn't the same as aromanticism. Maybe they'll find that they enjoy romantic relationships with others, or maybe romance is either too alien to them to understand and appreciate it or maybe they will understand it but simply not be interested in it like non-spider aromantics. But we'll never know unless we give them a chance to learn and explore.
 
Derpmind said:
Oh.

Every book we add to Kron-Azril-Ungol also, by extension, becomes part of the Library-We's memory. And the Library-We is too young to get a pile of romance novels dropped in there. Other kinds of fiction would be ok, but not romance. :(

[X] [LIBRARY] Back-fill: Social sciences
[X] [LIBRARY] Library of Mournings: Linguistics, Hoeth
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while I'm not voting for romance novels, this feels false: by their nature they very much might be one of the oldest, if possibly the oldest, intelligences currently alive. being new to 'civilisation' is not being a child.

at the very least they are well over Mathy's age.
 
LadySerpentine said:
Not especially, I don't think. As Candesce noted, if the people who are selling to us were in a position to sell directly to Laurelorn, they might be able to get more - though they might not unless they're also in a position to buy up Ithilimar in bulk like the EIC is doing - but that's more or less just how trading works. You buy things that are not considered particularly valuable in one place, and you sell them somewhere that they are highly valued.
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Everyone wants to cut out the middleman until their is no middleman and they have to do all the thankless work themselves.
 
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