Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

[Ancient Scholar]

So, would writing this paper and establishing clear laws and rules of magic have any major benefit to the other schools?

 

[Klaus Wulfenback]

[X][Action] Plan Is Bundebad Good Or Bad

 

[Yanez]

[X][Action] Plan Is Bundebad Good Or Bad

 

[Rafin]

Unless anyone comes forth with a defence of it as a possible action in this or any future plan, I'll take it out for the next turn.

Click to shrink...

Maybe at some point in the future we are such a great mage and have delegated well enough that we can rent out our magery for great gain to us, Striland, College and Empire.

 

[NotteBoy97]

[X][NAME] Weber's Web

 

[DarkLight140]

As far as benefits to wizardry at large from this project... we shouldn't be expecting much of an impact. Here's why:

Mathilde is a journeyman wizard. As wizards go, with Learning 19 and Magic 4 she's skilled but not truly impressive (remember the stat scales; 10 average, 20 impressive, 25-30 heroic, and with Magic under 5 she can't even begin to start mastering a full third of the known Shadow spellbook). This means that there are a lot of wizards who have been much better than wizard-ing than her.

All those wizards had mastery projects. Sure, some of those mastery projects were probably things like "added Burning Shadows to the standard spell list" or "killed a vampire", but it's a good bet that a lot of them were also devoted to developing specialized, innovative, and really cool applications of magic a lot like what Mathilde is doing right now. All those mastery projects were completed, sent out to the Orders, and are somewhere in the Colleges' archives.

Note how we haven't learned any of them. We've never even heard of them. Without easy access to other wizards to confer with and having the massive archives of the Colleges at our fingertips instead of needing to send away for every tome we want, we don't even know that most of those cool, innovative applications of magic exist. In fact, we haven't even started learning enchantment, which we most certainly know exists and we're exceptionally talented at, because there's always something else that demands our action slots.

Most journeymen are going to have similar profiles; either unaware that our research exists, without the ability to exploit it, or with higher priorities in their lives. The only people who are going to have the appropriate intersection of knowledge, ability, and time are the Magisters who live at the colleges and devote themselves to esoteric magical research. Those people will definitely learn and appreciate what Mathilde is doing, and maybe it'll make a significant difference to them someday- but these are the same people who have probably devoted action slots to learning dozens of fascinating niche techniques pioneered by bright young journeymen at one time or another, and no few more potent techniques developed by actual geniuses and Wizard Lords at the peak of their careers (Learning 25+, Magic 6+). Their bags of tricks are both broad and deep, and the addition of Mathilde's Magical Matrix Method (or whatever we call it) is going to be a marginal improvement in their overall competence.

Basically, this is cool and it's helpful and the only people who are ever going to learn it are the full Magisters with a lot of spare time who are looking to broaden their array of magical tricks.

 

[Derpmind]

Well, that's a really cynical view of things. This spell is a vector for other spells, a way to use many spells in new applications. The usefulness of this new "trick" is compounded by every spell that it can be combined with. Plus, it's potentially aplicable to all schools of magic instead of just one. Look at the description of the first publish action:

[ ] Publish Or Perish, Part 1: Though it's currently of limited utility to you personally, sharing your discovery might bring it to the attention of hundreds of wizards who could put it to great effect. Though before you do that, you'll need to learn the vocabulary to communicate exactly what it is you're doing, since you can't exactly submit the poor chicken as part of your paper. (NEW)

Click to shrink...

A successful publishing isn't going to be seen by half a dozen and then buried in an archive. It's going to be seen by many, many wizards. It even might attain status similar to many of the spells in our spellbook, that of a spell that any journeymen level wizards know of and can have the materials to learn it sent through correspondence. All those spells we know of by one word names mught have much longer 'proper' names that our character reflexively shortens.

 

[Exmorri]

As far as benefits to wizardry at large from this project... we shouldn't be expecting much of an impact. Here's why:
(good reasons)

Click to shrink...

I agree whole-heartedly. Permit me to play devil's advocate nonetheless:

The Colleges of Magic are less than two centuries old. (Specifically, Teclis founded them in 2304 and it's now 2476.) They'd have fairly low initial numbers, and even once the numbers starting getting usefully large, there's still going to be a lot of Battle-ish Wizards on the one hand who study Bigger Fireballs rather than matrix theory, and on the other hand jobsworths who do the minimum necessary to graduate to magister and then make a nice career out of not casting spells. Some ramp-up time would also be required just to get to the point of the standard spell list we know. All in all, it's still possible for there to be low-hanging fruit of great value in the field of magical study, particularly as Dame Weber's Contextually Initiated Thaumoprocrastinatory Ulgulic Matrix isn't really the invention of a journeyman. It's a journeyman stealing credit from an evil master who might well have a century of practice.

 

[ALanos]

[X][Name] Mathilde's Mystical Matrix
[X][Action] Plan Is Bundebad Good Or Bad
-[X][Personal] Now that the land is cleared between Stirland proper and Nachthafen, spend some time in the court of the only Sylvanian noble to recognize and be recognized by the Empire, Countess Gabriella von Bundebad.
--[X] Ranald's Blessing
-[X][Personal] Publish Or Perish, Part 3: You spent a month running into roadblocks; hopefully that means that you got them all and now there's nothing between you and actually writing the damn paper. (NEW)

 

[Stewart9]

I like this name the best because it fits someone from Sigmar's empire.
[X] [name] Dame Weber's Contextually Initiated Thaumoprocrastinatory Ulgulic Matrix
While I really think that getting the lab set up would help with the paper we have a job and we need to do it. Plus Veekie's right at this point we just have to plow ahead with the paper so we do not forget anything about it by going away and then coming back.
[X][Action] Plan Is Bundebad Good Or Bad
-[X][Personal] Now that the land is cleared between Stirland proper and Nachthafen, spend some time in the court of the only Sylvanian noble to recognize and be recognized by the Empire, Countess Gabriella von Bundebad.
--[X] Ranald's Blessing
-[X][Personal] Publish Or Perish, Part 3: You spent a month running into roadblocks; hopefully that means that you got them all and now there's nothing between you and actually writing the damn paper. (NEW

 

[WorldSlayer]

[X] [action] Plan Enchantrix

No time. We still aren't ready with the Bound Spells paper, we don't want to put it off(as anyone writing a paper knows, putting it off for two months means you hardly remember what it was about).

At most we could set up the lab. But no time to experiment with the drippings of Weber's Box yet.

Click to shrink...

I've been thinking about this (and also those swords). Here's the thing we've got these fancy magic items but not enough time to research them ourselves. On the other hand we also have money problems and everyone knows that wizards love shiny things.

Basically I think we should sell off a few vials of magic juice (a few drops at a time and doing our best to milk it as much as possible of course) and if we have time see if we can sell or trade a few of the swords (might even manage to get a combat wizard for them).

We already have access to an underground market so selling a few drops of magic juice and seeing what uses people put them to should at least be doable and not cost any actions I think. Money and research all in one morally grey, dubiously safe action.

[o] [action] Despair at the amount of stuff to be done
[x] [name] Dame Weber's Contextually Initiated Thaumoprocrastinatory Ulgulic Matrix

I don't think we know that yet. Maybe it'll have to be modified significantly for other winds. But even if it works the same way, we built it with Ulgu in the first place, so the name can be a tiny point scored for the Grey Order. Much like how the first act of a new Supreme Patriarch of the Colleges of Magic is usually turning the Wheel of Magic so their own Order's color is at the top.
(Meddle not in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and sometimes really petty.)

Click to shrink...

Considering we stole the spell pretty much completely from a necromancer using Dhar I've got my doubts on that.

Also can we change the trigger conditions on the matrix? It seems like it would be extremely useful to allow the greatswords to be able to turn their swords into magic weapons when in a sticky situation.

 

[Pyro Hawk]

[X][Name] Mathilde's Mystical Matrix
[X][Action] Plan Is Bundebad Good Or Bad

 

[JamesShazbond]

So what does an ideal perfect victory in this campaign look like? We do our purge, Asarnil burns down Drakehof, and then what? Do we annex all of Sylvania? Rip a chunk off? Divide it among the neighbors?

 

[HanEmpire]

So what does an ideal perfect victory in this campaign look like? We do our purge, Asarnil burns down Drakehof, and then what? Do we annex all of Sylvania? Rip a chunk off? Divide it among the neighbors?

Click to shrink...

Legally speaking Sylvania is already a part of Stirland. It's just occupied by vampire squatters.
Once we kill off the von Carsteins it'll be a long process of cleansing the land of vampiric corruption and undead stragglers. Van Hal and his descendants will have to spend decades to generations just covering the land in Sigmarite/Morrite shrines and monasteries.

After it's pacified Stirland could become a trade hub by building road connections to Zhufbar and other Dwarf Holds.

 

[UniqueName]

[X][Action] Plan Is Bundebad Good Or Bad

 

[veekie]

So, would writing this paper and establishing clear laws and rules of magic have any major benefit to the other schools?

Click to shrink...

It's a Masters paper building off a PhD project by an ancient vampire. The original idea is really impressive because it built a stable matrix out of goddamned Dhar. Its like building an engine out of rocket fuel.

Mathilde is using probably the easiest Wind for something like this. Ulgu is very resonant with the idea of waiting hidden until the right moment.

It'd probably be Magister research to make it work for Aqshy or Shyish. Building stable matrixes in living creatures with raw elemental fire or death is going to suck.

A Journeyman could probably copy it with some work on Chamon or Ghyran though.

As far as benefits to wizardry at large from this project... we shouldn't be expecting much of an impact. Here's why:

Mathilde is a journeyman wizard. As wizards go, with Learning 19 and Magic 4 she's skilled but not truly impressive (remember the stat scales; 10 average, 20 impressive, 25-30 heroic, and with Magic under 5 she can't even begin to start mastering a full third of the known Shadow spellbook). This means that there are a lot of wizards who have been much better than wizard-ing than her.

All those wizards had mastery projects. Sure, some of those mastery projects were probably things like "added Burning Shadows to the standard spell list" or "killed a vampire", but it's a good bet that a lot of them were also devoted to developing specialized, innovative, and really cool applications of magic a lot like what Mathilde is doing right now. All those mastery projects were completed, sent out to the Orders, and are somewhere in the Colleges' archives.

Note how we haven't learned any of them. We've never even heard of them. Without easy access to other wizards to confer with and having the massive archives of the Colleges at our fingertips instead of needing to send away for every tome we want, we don't even know that most of those cool, innovative applications of magic exist. In fact, we haven't even started learning enchantment, which we most certainly know exists and we're exceptionally talented at, because there's always something else that demands our action slots.

Most journeymen are going to have similar profiles; either unaware that our research exists, without the ability to exploit it, or with higher priorities in their lives. The only people who are going to have the appropriate intersection of knowledge, ability, and time are the Magisters who live at the colleges and devote themselves to esoteric magical research. Those people will definitely learn and appreciate what Mathilde is doing, and maybe it'll make a significant difference to them someday- but these are the same people who have probably devoted action slots to learning dozens of fascinating niche techniques pioneered by bright young journeymen at one time or another, and no few more potent techniques developed by actual geniuses and Wizard Lords at the peak of their careers (Learning 25+, Magic 6+). Their bags of tricks are both broad and deep, and the addition of Mathilde's Magical Matrix Method (or whatever we call it) is going to be a marginal improvement in their overall competence.

Basically, this is cool and it's helpful and the only people who are ever going to learn it are the full Magisters with a lot of spare time who are looking to broaden their array of magical tricks.

Click to shrink...

We're doing the iconic adventurer journeyman work: finding the work of prior masters, reverse engineering them and then patent it under their name.

 

[Exmorri]

I've been thinking about this (and also those swords). Here's the thing we've got these fancy magic items but not enough time to research them ourselves. On the other hand we also have money problems and everyone knows that wizards love shiny things.

Basically I think we should sell off a few vials of magic juice (a few drops at a time and doing our best to milk it as much as possible of course) and if we have time see if we can sell or trade a few of the swords (might even manage to get a combat wizard for them).

We already have access to an underground market so selling a few drops of magic juice and seeing what uses people put them to should at least be doable and not cost any actions I think. Money and research all in one morally grey, dubiously safe action.

Click to shrink...

If anything it's the swords we should sell off first, or just give to the Amethyst Order in exchange for favours. The swords are distinctly Shyish-aligned and unhelpful. Whereas the Asp's Blood is unaligned and unknown. I agree about the time crunch being reason to reconsider keeping them, though. There is pretty much no way we're getting around to the Shyish swords any time soon.

 

[Boney]

On further thought and review of Realms of Sorcery, I feel I have to point out that the descriptions of both the Celestial Wizards and the Light Wizards aren't actually correct, both are just as intellectual in their own ways as the Gold Order. The Light Order most definitely isn't the "fill it with holy radiance and see what happens" type, they are more like Warhammer Jedi(philosophers with if anything an even stronger belief in discipline and self-control) and while the astromancers do often need to resort to metaphor and wordplay when speaking of the future, they are also some of the biggest mathematicians in the Empire(to the point where in hindsight I'm a little surprised that Mathilde got her trigonometry book from the Gold Order rather then the Celestial Order). Those two, plus the Gold Order, make up the more "intellectual" Colleges of the Empire(in contrast to the more practical minded Bright, Amethyst and Grey orders or the more primitive and rural minded Jade and Amber Colleges).

Click to shrink...

​

It's almost like Mathilde isn't a true and perfect source of factual information on every facet of the Warhammer world, or something. As a member of the order of shadows, is it just a teensy bit possible that she has been taught and continues to hold negative stereotypes about those of the order of light? As a member of the order of spies, is it possible there's some bad blood between them and those that pluck information straight from the future rather than work for it?

To put it plainly: Mathilde has a number of prejudices, some of which she inherited from her College. These prevent her from being a living Wikia on Warhammer lore.

As far as benefits to wizardry at large from this project... we shouldn't be expecting much of an impact. Here's why:

Click to shrink...

It's true that this is an interesting trick to join a number of already existing interesting tricks, but it is important to remember that the Colleges of Magic aren't actually that ancient - there's not quite 180 years of sanctioned wizarding history in the Empire at this point. And while the Matrix may be far from the first interesting trick, I invite you to imagine what the upper classes of the Empire would pay to have a voice-activated healing spell bound within them at all times, or to have bodyguards that have one-shot magical blessings available at a moment's notice. It's a solid middle ground for those unable to afford a wizard full-time, but still well-off enough to buy a few hours of their time.

 

[atrophy]

[X][Name] Mathilde's Mystical Matrix
[X][Action] Plan Is Bundebad Good Or Bad

 

[atrophy]

Yeah having a jade healing spell available for battle for elites seems like a great application people . It probably is only for the elites and commanders but that still would be very useful for them i imagine. But having it for important people so they dont die to one serious wound thanks to doing the spell in advance and dont rely completly on jade wizard availability to save their life?

 

[veekie]

@BoneyM

Out of curiosity, what are the stereotypes that Mathilde holds regarding the other college branches? Assuming she's typical of an impressionable Journeyman, I'm guessing:
-Shadow - The best of course, but we keep it quiet because it'd be crass, when we should be classy.
-Metal - Respected. Her own dabbling in Enchantment gives her respect for the best enchanters in the College.
-Life - Respected. Given her own propensity for risk taking, I imagine she's needed their help to patch up accidents more than once.

-Death - They do good work, even if they're kind of creepy
-Light - They're hard to deal with as zealots. No imagination at all

-Fire - Reckless idiots(says the one running around with a greatsword and ignoring deadly warp predators for years)
-Ghur - Cave dwellers(says the one who spent a year living in a cave. in a major city)
-Heavens - Stargazing daydreamers who spend so much time looking up and in the future that they don't see whats really going on under their noses

Or at least, going by a very crude stereotype of both sides

 

[Boney]

She, and the Grey Order in general, prefer practicality over respectability, so they're not as dismissive of the Amber Wizards - running around in the wilderness is built into their magic so one must make allowances. And they see the Amethyst Order as being like them only more so, doing the unpleasant work that must be done for the good of the Empire.

Obviously the best: Shadow
Good people doing necessary work: Life/Death/Metal
Useful enough that one makes allowances for their funny little ways: Fire/Amber
Dreadful oiks full of high ideals with no practicality whatsoever: Light/Celestial

 

[WorldSlayer]

@BoneyM

If we choose
[ ] Attach yourself to the general staff, so you can be present for anything interesting that might happen and keep a finger on the pulse of the war.
will we able to start loading up soldiers with bound magic? It would be pretty useful to have a load of test subjects soldiers enhanced with trigger-able magical abilities. I expect it would really help with the publishing of our new paper war effort against ghosts and ghouls and unstable terrain.


If so I'll probably change my vote to
[ ] Attach yourself to the general staff, so you can be present for anything interesting that might happen and keep a finger on the pulse of the war.
[ ] Publish Or Perish, Part 3: You spent a month running into roadblocks; hopefully that means that you got them all and now there's nothing between you and actually writing the damn paper. (NEW)

 

[LockedMind]

She, and the Grey Order in general, prefer practicality over respectability, so they're not as dismissive of the Amber Wizards - running around in the wilderness is built into their magic so one must make allowances. And they see the Amethyst Order as being like them only more so, doing the unpleasant work that must be done for the good of the Empire.

Obviously the best: Shadow
Good people doing necessary work: Life/Death/Metal
Useful enough that one makes allowances for their funny little ways: Fire/Amber
Dreadful oiks full of high ideals with no practicality whatsoever: Bright/Celestial

Click to shrink...

Something wrong here, Fire = Bright College, did you mean Light in last sentence?

 

[Exmorri]

If we choose
[ ] Attach yourself to the general staff, so you can be present for anything interesting that might happen and keep a finger on the pulse of the war.
will we able to start loading up soldiers with bound magic?

Click to shrink...

Almost certainly not, because we don't have any spells that it's useful to bind into soldiers. At its current level of development, Dame Weber's Contextually Initiated Thaumoprocrastinatory Ulgulic Matrix can only be used to bind spells that target someone else (which rules out self-only things like Skywalk and Aethyric Armour) and the spell will target the person it's bound into (which rules out hostile spells like Mindhole and Sleep).

We should pick up a more helpful buff like Mutable Visage if you want something to give to allies this way.