NorseQuest (A Norse Xianxia)

I.F. Ister · Jun 18, 2023

DeadmanwalkingXI said:
Hmmm. Thinking about this again, maybe treat Seidr spells like Skill-Tricks? 6 successes needed and you either have them or don't? That seems to mesh better with how they've been presented and described thus far than treating them as conventional Tricks would.

That's how I was thinking of it. Sorry for not clarifying

Shard said:
Can we teach Abjorn Eye-Speak?

You can, yes. You can teach people what to do, but you can't teach people why it works — which is how most people then start to innovate and improve — without them having earned the right to do so.

It's similar to runes. Any moron can scribble down some runes and color them in, but it takes someone who knows what they're doing to actually make stuff happen the way they want it to.

CedeTheBees said:
Can Stabilizing Palm be used on a non-Norse cultivator?

That's a good question.

0~0~0

If you were wondering, this would've been how you were introduced to the concept of the gate and odr in general had you not had a brain blast with the weaving of Aspects.

Shard · Jun 18, 2023

Imperial Fister said:
If you were wondering, this would've been how you were introduced to the concept of the gate and odr in general had you not had a brain blast with the weaving of Aspects.

Imagine if we had done it earlier, and then asked the Seeress about Odr and if she knew anything about it.

Solrun just going O_O

Skippy · Jun 18, 2023

Imperial Fister said:
[ ] Why is this even a question? You're going to get those godsdamned breadsticks or so help you Odin!

[X]

Shard · Jun 18, 2023

Imperial Fister said:
when I am certain that you won't accidentally summon something that decides your soul is a good place to set up shop

Also.

Blackhand turned himself into a Dark Forest Spirit!

But how the hell did he survive so long in the Dark Forest as a splintered spirit when there are so many predators? 10 years, even!

###

Imperial Fister said:
If you were wondering, this would've been how you were introduced to the concept of the gate and odr in general had you not had a brain blast with the weaving of Aspects.

I wonder what would have happened if instead we decided to experiment by smacking ourselves with Stabilizing Palm a couple of times.

###

So from what I gather, Ods is Chaos-Aspected, which is why it's weaker in civilized places like a farm that you own. In principle you can get more Odr in a more Chaos-Aspected area.. like the Hading forest..

###

Could we give Blackhand Odr, if he wove his Aspects together, but took the Odr from our well, instead of from the outside? Could he use our Odr, as a matter of fact? Don't we share the same soul?

7734 · Jun 18, 2023

[x] Why is this even a question? You're going to get those godsdamned breadsticks or so help you Odin!

I.F. Ister · Jun 18, 2023

Toboe said:
Hey Blackhand, is the existence of Seeresses something that was won from the enemy?

'There is a high possibility that everything we have right now was something ripped from its grasp. After all, this is a war that was started long before the idea of Midgard was ever floated.

So yes, seers and seeresses were likely won from the Enemy.'

Shard said:
Don't we share the same soul?

Same soul, but it's not his anymore. It's like taking a dead man's sword. While it's still the same sword, it's not his anymore.

Toboe · Jun 18, 2023

@Imperial Fister
Can we do breadsticks and animal shopping in the remaining time?

Hey Blackhand, with Solrun able to talk about Odr she obvious has earned the right to know... Could i tell her about true cultivation without the enemy being able to interfere? Does she know already?

Constenanto · Jun 18, 2023

I should've asked how odr can be used to heal people, smh.

[X] Why is this even a question? You're going to get those godsdamned breadsticks or so help you Odin!

Alectai said:
And then we need to Win the Disclosure, and repeat that method in the future, because the Enemy's already lost his claim as long as the rest of the Trial is suitable. We paid the price to pass the knowledge on, and the Trial we set pays the price for people to be allowed to study from that same lore. The Enemy no longer gets a say in the matter because we've sorted it all out ourselves.

This something that we can totally do, and should, but we'd need appropriate permanent defenses. The Enemy isn't a machine - if we have a way for people to learn odr free of charge and it was something as widespread as a book, they'd probably actively try to destroy it, rather than just automating a trial or something similar to take advantage.

Shard · Jun 18, 2023

Imperial Fister said:
'There is a high possibility that everything we have right now was something ripped from its grasp. After all, this is a war that was started long before the idea of Midgard was ever floated.

So yes, seers and seeresses were likely won from the Enemy.'

Hey Blackhand,

Do you know the price we paid for Orthsirr?

wrecksalot · Jun 18, 2023

Maybe the Trial for Orthstirr is continuous, and that's why it is earned through deeds.

Toboe · Jun 18, 2023

Alectai said:
And then we need to Win the Disclosure, and repeat that method in the future, because the Enemy's already lost his claim as long as the rest of the Trial is suitable. We paid the price to pass the knowledge on, and the Trial we set pays the price for people to be allowed to study from that same lore. The Enemy no longer gets a say in the matter because we've sorted it all out ourselves.

For a start we could see how many cultivation secrets are part of Seer training. And If it isn't already, see if we can make the basics for true cultivation part of it.

Shard · Jun 18, 2023

So, I think it's a two-part price:

1) Knowledge of Odr
2) Knowledge of Opening The Gate (w/o Dying)

Doing this as part of a Sect has some issues, however. All Odr cultivation to our knowledge *needs* a Property for us to Cultivate at.. Unless we can 'rent out' cultivation spots in a way legally fitting under The Law*? In that case, we'd basically be adapting the Warband structure (sort of). The Clan method may also work, but in this case you would need to give your children access to Odr before they're born, which is morally dubious.

As for the Trial of Odr.. We would want something that definitively proves their 'right' to learn Odr while ideally being cheesable by initiates.

*Ex: "You own the spot under the Ash Tree for 1 week"

###

Man. Imagine if Steinarr had Odr.

Constenanto · Jun 18, 2023

Shard said:
Doing this as part of a Sect has some issues, however. All Odr cultivation to our knowledge *needs* a Property for us to Cultivate at.. Unless we can 'rent out' cultivation spots in a way legally fitting under The Law?

I don't think this'd work... I mean, we can certainly try it, I suppose, but from what Imperial has said, renting land isn't actually the same in Norse society as actually owning the land you on. Technically, the land isn't 'yours' if you were to rent it out from someone... it'd be more akin to borrowing it, rather than making it your own.

Oshha · Jun 18, 2023

[X] Why is this even a question? You're going to get those godsdamned breadsticks or so help you Odin!

Toboe · Jun 18, 2023

Shard said:
So, I think it's a two-part price:

1) Knowledge of Odr
2) Knowledge of Opening The Gate (w/o Dying)

Doing this as part of a Sect has some issues, however. All Odr cultivation to our knowledge *needs* a Property for us to Cultivate at.. Unless we can 'rent out' cultivation spots in a way legally fitting under The Law*? In that case, we'd basically be adapting the Warband structure (sort of). The Clan method may also work, but in this case you would need to give your children access to Odr before they're born, which is morally dubious.

Constenanto said:
I don't think this'd work... I mean, we can certainly try it, I suppose, but from what Imperial has said, renting land isn't actually the same in Norse society as actually owning the land you on. Technically, the land isn't 'yours' if you were to rent it out from someone... it'd be more akin to borrowing it, rather than making it your own.

Do we know that it needs to be a place owned by the cultivators?
Or does it need to be a place owned by someone friendly?
Also, is it a strict requirement or something that slows it down to a more easily managed level.

We could try cultivating at Steinarrs farm and compare it to our farm.

Constenanto · Jun 18, 2023

Toboe said:
Do we know that it needs to be a place owned by the cultivators?
Or does it need to be a place owned by someone friendly?
Also, is it a strict requirement or something that slows it down to a more easily managed level.

Well, Imperial's exact words were 'When the Jarl comes to visit, why does he not take the high seat?'. Being friendly with the owner of the land still wouldn't mean that you can take the high seat.

Not to mention that Aki is definitely friendly with his Father, yet we were told that he wouldn't be able to cultivate odr despite the fact he lives on Runar's farm.

Toboe · Jun 18, 2023

I found the quotes of IF telling us what @Constenanto was refering to:

Imperial Fister said:
If I were you, I would review the wording of the write in. I can't tell you any more than that, not for free.

Imperial Fister said:
[X] Aki's soul may be asleep, but he may be dreaming. "I don't know if you're going to remember this later, but you've shown interest, and your courage has never been in question. Take from this what you will, but I will leave the information with you here regardless, if you are willing to take up the responsibility and risks of delving into these secrets. When you have a Farm of your own, a place that you can truly call yourself King in, Summon your allies to you within your fence to serve as guardians and companions, and with your Orthstirr at its heights, stoke your Aspects further still. Weave them together as one, and you will find within a Path Forward, should you have the strength and fortitude to endure the flood of inspiration and the courage to face the great Foe of our people and his minions when his eye turns to you later. This is a secret I gift to you, as a symbol of our friendship and my thanks for the harm you took aiding me and my kin, but take care, the Enemy will not allow us to spread it further without challenge, and it may be some time yet before we can prepare a field to face it's reprisal."

Side Note:
We did not mention the need to close the gate. This could get Aki killed by him not being prepared to close the gate.

Back to main part:

Imperial Fister said:
What you had before was fine, it just wouldn't work.

When the Jarl comes to visit, why does he not take the high seat?

Alectai said:
... Because the home owner is king there.

So he has to do it on his own farm? Or otherwise property that belongs to him?

Imperial Fister said:
And there we have it, the crux of the matter.

Unrelated to the topic of telling Aki anything, but that little nugget of knowledge sure casts getting outlawed in a new light, eh?

Constenanto · Jun 18, 2023

Wait, but we were able to disclose odr to Aki, yet he went through no trial though? Was there no trial required because he wasn't conscious?

Toboe · Jun 18, 2023

Constenanto said:
Wait, but we were able to disclose odr to Aki, yet he went through no trial though? Was there no trial required because he wasn't conscious?

Ginnungagap is outside the senses of the enemy.
The enemy simply didn't hear it.

Simon_Jester · Jun 18, 2023

Constenanto said:
Wait, but we were able to disclose odr to Aki, yet he went through no trial though? Was there no trial required because he wasn't conscious?

We were in a place that's inherently a bit more paranormal than Midgard, and where the Enemy could not perceive what we were doing.

If you blind the Tribulation mechanism to your actions, you can bypass it.

Constenanto · Jun 18, 2023

Toboe said:
Ginnungagap is outside the senses of the enemy.
The enemy simply didn't hear it.

Simon_Jester said:
We were in a place that's inherently a bit more paranormal than Midgard, and where the Enemy could not perceive what we were doing.

If you blind the Tribulation mechanism to your actions, you can bypass it.

Yeah, but the Enemy doesn't have to be the one that presents your trial. Look at the Seeress, for example. I doubt she fought the Enemy to learn about odr, too. My impression is that you need to go through a trial, it's just that the Enemy makes sure that your trial is guaranteed to kill you whenever they get the chance to intervene. The Enemy isn't the inherent tribulation mechanism, it's just that they're capable of hijacking it.

seekingflame · Jun 18, 2023

Alectai said:
snip

So that is also how we might be able to bypass the Enemy retribution by passing the secrets of Odr in riddle speak or sufficiently subtle way, it's not that we manage to pass the knowledge under the Enemy's nose. We are effectively enacting a Trial of the mind.

Toboe · Jun 18, 2023

Constenanto said:
Yeah, but the Enemy doesn't have to be the one that presents your trial. Look at the Seeress, for example. I doubt she fought the Enemy to learn about odr, too. My impression is that you need to go through a trial, it's just that the Enemy makes sure that your trial is guaranteed to kill you whenever they get the chance to intervene. The Enemy isn't the inherent tribulation mechanism, it's just that they're capable of hijacking it.

Maybe you don't inherently need to go through a trial, but without your own apropriate trial the enemy can force its own (deadly) trial.

Constenanto · Jun 18, 2023

Toboe said:
Maybe you don't inherently need to go through a trial, but without your own apropriate trial the enemy can force its own (deadly) trial.

All evidence points to the contrary, though. Otherwise the Seeress made us go through a trial for no reason. Like, Odin himself needed to go through a trial to learn knowledge of seidr and runes, and 'Power requires Sacrifice' is a big part of the culture. Not to mention Aki never actually went through an 'appropriate trial' either.

seekingflame · Jun 18, 2023

Imperial Fister said:
"An odd phenomenon that we seidr practitioners have observed is that attempting to teach someone about odr — which is intrinsic to how seidr operates — is impossible without the student having 'earned' the right to do so."

That, and the fact that Aki quite literally couldn't recall us using Odr, point to needing an trial not just to shield yourself from the enemy but also to gain the Power.

Which does put a spin a thing on whatever he managed remember what we told him while in Ginnungagap, because dodging the enemy gaze is one thing, evading the need for the trial itself is another. could be either other realm shennigans or maybe dying in our raid against Horra count as sufficient trial.

...He did just spend a week in Ginnungagap without his Fylgja, which other described as a literal torture... A Trial if you want to be poetic about it.

NorseQuest (A Norse Xianxia)

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