Marrying INTO a family technically makes him part of it.
He'd not be blood-related, but still others would feel compelled to protect him as some sort of family honor.
 
It is good to get some OOC confirmation that Deep Family Roots is primarily a defensive trait, rather than the offensive trait that makes the ruling class just hate Halla on sight. It does mean that we can't attack until Horra overextends and exposes himself, but it's good that we don't suddenly need to move to another country or something.
 
...

Question, What exactly is the Frami, Virthing, and Saemd, specifically?

We know we can tap them for Orthstirr, and it creates cool special effects. But what Are they? When did Halla learn how to rouse them, and why are they divided in three but apparently equal receptacles of Orthstirr?

I tried reviewing the early posts, but I don't recall her ever receiving a lesson on them, just that there was a tutorial on stoking them as soon as she had a little Orthstirr of her own.
There was a decent explanation of it in one of the spoilertags in a pretty early post
Steinarr blinks, confusion writ across his face. "Do you not know about stoking your orthstirr?"

"Of course I know how to ready orthstirr!"

"No, not ready it, stoke it."

"...Is there a difference?"

"Right, well, this is my fault." Steinarr rocks on his heels, hissing through a bit lip. He sighs, slumps, and holds up three fingers. "Orthstirr is made up of three parts; frami, virthing, and saemd. Frami is your fame, how well-known you are, virthing is how respected you are, and saemd is how prestigious you are."

You nod, your orthstirr-enhanced mind makes memorizing that a breeze. "And how does frami, virthing, and saemd play into 'stoking' my orthstirr?"

"By tapping into the base components of orthstirr, such as saemd," he gestures at the crown atop his head as it further faded, "you temporarily boost your supply of power. This is called 'stoking your orthstirr'. It doesn't last long, and they can only be used once in a while, but it should last long enough for you to do what you need it for."

"So, I can stoke my frami, virthing, and saemd to gain a brief boost of power? How much power, exactly? And if saemd manifests itself as a crown, is there one that's a cloak?" You ask, thinking back to when Eric stoked his orthstirr.

"Each gives you a third of your orthstirr supply. And yes, that would be virthing," he focuses and a purple cloak unfurls itself around his body. Gold, silver, and other materials you don't recognize wind their way through the cloak in gorgeous displays, "and this is frami," an aura of fire appears around his body, outlining it in a crimson hue.

"It can be difficult to determine how much orthstirr someone else has, but a display like this," he gestures at himself, "will tell you all you need to know. If you know what you're looking for, that is. I'll teach you how to, some time."
 
You know, back to the Orthsirr discussion, I wonder if stoking your frami, virthing, and saemd *while* at Full Orthsirr could be used to cultivate *properly*. The excess Orthsirr is just.. lost, yes, but maybe there's something there?
 
You know, back to the Orthsirr discussion, I wonder if stoking your frami, virthing, and saemd *while* at Full Orthsirr could be used to cultivate *properly*. The excess Orthsirr is just.. lost, yes, but maybe there's something there?

Not on its own, I don't think, but that might be involved in cycling it once we figure out how to do that, yeah.
 
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You know, back to the Orthsirr discussion, I wonder if stoking your frami, virthing, and saemd *while* at Full Orthsirr could be used to cultivate *properly*. The excess Orthsirr is just.. lost, yes, but maybe there's something there?

We could certainly try.

While in town and buying things, can we also get a nicer dress and apron?
 
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Mmm.

I think it's notable that all three components of orthstirr are external, formed by the expectations of others. That may be why there's no internal component to Norse cultivation - we're not cultivators in a traditional sense, we're Jedi - manipulating an energy field that's around us and a part of us but not internal to us. That's also true of kennings. And Tricks are just means to manipulate orthstirr.

Muna, on the other hand, are internal to an extent - they rely on a transcendent understanding, but that transcendent understanding changes us and lets us do things we otherwise couldn't. On the other hand, it's still all orthstirr.

There's also stuff with how advancing our core stats offers internal improvements - changing our soul self, letting us shapeshift and so on. But other than just pushing our stats, I'm not sure how we can leverage those into cultivation insights. I suppose unlocking them would be the first step.

In a way, this is all 'Dumbo's magic feather's based. Norse cultivation may work the way it does because people believe it works the way it does.
 
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I think it's notable that all three components of orthstirr are external, formed by the expectations of others.

I'm not sure that's correct. Alectai theorized that Virthing, meaning 'Worth' is actually a measure of self-worth to at least some degree, and there are certainly actions that get you things like Drengskapr and Nid even if nobody witnesses them, so it's not all based exclusively on other people's opinions. Norse cultivation is certainly primarily external, but I don't think it's exclusively so.
 
I'm not sure that's correct. Alectai theorized that Virthing, meaning 'Worth' is actually a measure of self-worth to at least some degree, and there are certainly actions that get you things like Drengskapr and Nid even if nobody witnesses them, so it's not all based exclusively on other people's opinions. Norse cultivation is certainly primarily external, but I don't think it's exclusively so.
Frami is your fame, how well-known you are, virthing is how respected you are, and saemd is how prestigious you are."
The quest text doesn't support this, though. Virthing is how respected you are.

One thing Norse cultivation is missing is a core/dantien/internal space. Christians have a Tabernacle and a castle around it (and priests have some connection to a church). Chinese cultivation probably has a dantien/core. Developing such a thing may help us internalize cultivation.
 
Mmm.

I think it's notable that all three components of orthstirr are external, formed by the expectations of others. That may be why there's no internal component to Norse cultivation - we're not cultivators in a traditional sense, we're Jedi - manipulating an energy field that's around us and a part of us but not internal to us. That's also true of kennings. And Tricks are just means to manipulate orthstirr.

Muna, on the other hand, are internal to an extent - they rely on a transcendent understanding, but that transcendent understanding changes us and lets us do things we otherwise couldn't. On the other hand, it's still all orthstirr.

There's also stuff with how advancing our core stats offers internal improvements - changing our soul self, letting us shapeshift and so on. But other than just pushing our stats, I'm not sure how we can leverage those into cultivation insights. I suppose unlocking them would be the first step.

In a way, this is all 'Dumbo's magic feather's based. Norse cultivation may work the way it does because people believe it works the way it does.

Honestly, I halfway feel like that's the problem, again, the Norse system in its current state is doomed to die, because it's engineered from the ground up to require you to take actions that get you killed young, and encourages you to not bother keeping a legacy that lasts longer than maybe--if you're lucky--the birth of your children. (Remember, most Norse don't reach 30, by that logic, Halla will be dead before any of her children are of age). Switching over to the Christian Setup isn't an outright fail state, because it doesn't lead to the certain annihilation of your line in the long run, but it's still effectively a compromise to an external force at the end of the day.

And again, your family doesn't get all of your Orthstirr when you die. The system would still be sustainable if badasses could pass a legacy on to their kin, but that doesn't happen--the overwhelming majority of the Orthstirr that someone holds just... Disappears somewhere. Something is profiting off of the Entire Existence of Norse Culture, though whether anything's actually being done with that or if it's effectively being tucked away somewhere and not being used because the people who'd be profiting aren't there to collect. Either way, the fact that Christianity is outcompeting the Entire Norse System despite being the relative New Kid On the Block suggests that the halls of Asgard are empty, and yet there's no reasonable successor on the table to pick up from where that left off.

I think Frami, Virthing, and Saemd are the key. That's the Orthstirr that's actually yours, with the 'Accessible' Orthstirr being what would be the normal resource pool. But nobody in the Norse system (That we know of) actually knows how to Cultivate, so it just sits there unused except as a reserve to tap for a bit of extra juice.

Notably, Nobody actually seems to understand what they are, except in the most poorly grasped fashion (Steinarr is not an authority on Deep Lore, he doesn't even know Reinforce, a Basic Dice Adder for god's sake!).

And even putting that aside, from a mechanical and meta standpoint, It doesn't make sense for literally half of your Orthstirr being tied up in three separate pools that all do nothing but store extra Orthstirr. It's added bookkeeping for no real profit aside from Flavor, and that's honestly anathema to a decent game.

No, I suspect the key to actual Norse Cultivation lies in cultivating those three into something Genuine, and someone dropping "Saga" being the equivalent of the Christian Rosary feels right. At the end of the day, the three facets of Orthstirr as grasped by a Norse Cultivator are about stories. "How Others See You", "How You See Yourself", and "How Important Were Your Acts"

Remember the Poetry thing? The Orthstirr wasn't gained until Halla could figure out how to describe it and settled on a final result. But you can't really get Orthstirr for just Making Shit Up, a story has to have actual meaning for it to generate power. If she made up that exact same poem but never fought the Draugr, It wouldn't have been worth shit I suspect.

Orthstirr is generated when you Do Something Cool, People Acknowledge you for it, and it was based on a True Story, Virthing, Frami, and Saemd, in that order, the three Aspects that it's composed of.
 
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The quest text doesn't support this, though. Virthing is how respected you are.

That's what Steinarr said...but I don't think he's an unimpeachable source on Cultivation. There's something internal going on with things like nid and drengskapr, so there's some internal element. Maybe it's not Virthing, but it's somewhere in there.

One thing Norse cultivation is missing is a core/dantien/internal space. Christians have a Tabernacle and a castle around it (and priests have some connection to a church). Chinese cultivation probably has a dantien/core. Developing such a thing may help us internalize cultivation.

That I agree entirely on. We need a way to store and circulate orthstirr...we just need to figure out how.

Remember the Poetry thing? The Orthstirr wasn't gained until Halla could figure out how to describe it and settled on a final result. But you can't really get Orthstirr for just Making Shit Up, a story has to have actual meaning for it to generate power. If she made up that exact same poem but never fought the Draugr, It wouldn't have been worth shit I suspect.

Notably the deed itself is still listed on our sheet and we can write a different poem and get more orthstirr if it's better. But we can't do something like that without a deed to do it with.

Now, we have also gained orthstirr for good poetry alone...but not at nearly the same rates.
 
More importantly, only when that Poetry was important, like when we did the whole inspirational brag session before we took a poke at the Manor.

Certainly more when it was important, but we got some orthstirr for doing a mediocre poem in our family's honor at Yule one year. Public performance alone gets you some...but not as much as when it means something.
 
..great, we got the scarecrow assassin for a loot.... hopefully, it goes blank after losing its stuffing, but who knows?

As for the Horra situation... yeah, that makes sense....

It was HIS ancestral home, makes sense his family has wormed its way everywhere in the untold generations before he got the stupids.

The warnings from both Aki and mom makes a staggering amount of sense now. If steinar hears it, it wont just be him who gets attacked...

Guess we really need to wait until Horra kills himself. Damn.
 
If we had to term, an internal storage for Norse Cultivators what would we call it? Although, given what we know of the Norse would they even have an internal storage? Would it not be better to be better tap/connection to their external public storage? If that's the case we could term it a bifrost?
 
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Actually, is that even a thing? My initial gut feeling was 'Is that a voodoo doll?'

If we had to term, an internal storage for Norse Cultivators what would we call it?

Saga makes all the sense in the world, given how the entirety of Norse Cultivation seems to be about Stories and Legends.

EDIT: Okay, on further re-examination.

It's a sack, a very tall sack, with openings for four arms and legs, each limb ends in a 'Glossy Black Spike', and it has a character on its face that reminds Halla of the characters on the Meteorite, it seems to have been filled with straw of some sort at some point.

It was also on a garbo roll of Owl Gacha, so it's probably either a Headache or just a pain in the ass to work with. Or alternately, it's just some Really Weird Shit that's not actually useful to us.
 
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I haven't had the biggest hold on the theorizing of how the system works, but is it possible the way to cultivate as Norse is to etch your story on the world yourself, which because the Norns plan things out is why most Orthstirr seemingly disappears after death?
 
I would borrow from Christian cultivation and stylize it as a building. The Hearth, Mead Hall or Longhouse. A pace for warrior spirits (in the form of Orthstirr) to gather and lend strength.
 
Saga makes all the sense in the world, given how the entirety of Norse Cultivation seems to be about Stories and Legends.

Saga is definitely what we call the method and the metaphor for the whole process, the equivalent of the Rosary for Christian cultivators or the imagined elixir of life for Chinese ones, and the methodology for the how of building things.

But all of them have separate terms from that for their internal space (tabernacle, dantian, etc.), so we probably need a separate term for that and I'm less sure what it would be be. A building metaphor there seems fine, but I'm less sure what building is most appropriate.
 
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[X] Yes, go shopping
-[X] See if any livestock are for sale, particularly milk cows
-[X] See if we can hire a farmhand who will bring his wife to help us with housework and children
-[X] See about buying more land
-[X] Check the blacksmith for tools, weapons, and metals
-[X] Visit the Seeress
--[X] reveal Asbjorns Fylgja
--[X] does she know how to get evidence on the nisse or evidence that could get Horra outlawed
--[X] Ask about the prophecy we got about Steinarr getting involved in the Horra situation being bad...see why she didn't go to him about this.
--[X] Ask about finding Thievesbane's original owner
 
So anyone taking bets on whether Folkmarr will in fact try to attack us once we leave the village, or if Halla is overreacting there?
 
So anyone taking bets on whether Folkmarr will in fact try to attack us once we leave the village, or if Halla is overreacting there?

The amount of Nid he would achieve from doing so is astronomical. Backstabbing a fellow member of the Felag as they returned home after a successful raid? There is literally no scenario in which that looks good for him. "I killed her because she grumbled about an unpopular, distant cousin and wanted advice on the legality of fighting him" makes him look like an unstable lunatic, and that's one of the better ways for that all to be sorted out.

He's Ambitious, and this would end any prayer of achieving whatever that is. Because nobody would ever trust him again.

Keep in mind, Halla has only established that she has a grudge, she's taken no action about it, and in fact--just got Warned Off from doing so. At most, he's going to inform Horra that we have a grudge, but straight up telling him how to kill us or actively helping him take pre-emptive action? No, he doesn't hate us enough for that, even though going from '7' to '-1' in one go despite everything is an absurdly over the top reaction to what amounted to being words and a request for advice

Still, that Trait is stupidly powerful. It's basically a Perfect Defense, and apparently applies insanely broadly given how distant the relation apparently is. Either Horra's done something fucky to strengthen that (If the trait is coming from his end), or how the fuck if Folkmarr supposed to accomplish anything if he can't even countenance the idea of 'Allowing a second cousin twice removed getting killed in a feud that he started'. Willing to alienate a powerful, loyal ally in the process because he couldn't just let it be settled with "Seriously, he's my relative, out of consideration for our achievements, I'll forget you said this, but seriously, leave him alone if he doesn't bother you." is... Uh, not a good sign for his future endeavors.

And if Horra is a good enough sorcerer to ensnare half the valley in a spell that makes the idea of fighting him literally unthinkable as long as he has a tenuous blood connection with them, I don't think he's something we can handle in a year's time anyway, if that's the case.

(Though admittedly, Fister said that Folkmarr is very much being Stupid about this whole thing too, so it might just be that he's Being Stupid)
 
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