Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Oliver_Twister
Idea-Man, He Who Shits Ideas
- Location
- West Africa
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[ ] Mountain Halls-Focus your efforts on building reputation and cachet in the Foundations and Wang lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
[ ] Garden of Sinners-Focus your efforts on the Central Valley and Diao lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
Honestly, this vote is pretty frustrating. So. Here's why:
We have a number of pokers in the fire with the Diao, but we haven't been able to properly dive into pokering about with them due to various circumstances. And they're actually kind of important to our long-term political stability and our cultural-historical projects and even a bit of interpersonal things? This is a great opportunity to actually, finally, poke at the Diao and browse through their subfactions for potential allies and all of that. But... the Diao aren't involved in the summit. Committing to this path means taking time in the next two months, the time leading up to the summit, and dedicating it to a provincial faction which has pointedly turned up its nose at the entire summit business. Doesn't really make sense.
Then we have the Wang, who haven't dodged the summit, so they'll be involved. Maybe? We have a Wang contact now, but we haven't actually spoken with her in that capacity. At all. So actually we don't really know what's up with the Wang, here? But you know what we do know about the Wang, it's that they've contributed to ~ F I E F - B U I L D I N G ~. If you look through the posts since the update, you'll see quite a lot of excitement over rubbing shoulders with the Wang to get more fief building goodies. Taking actions/narrative opportunities in the leadup to the summit, instead of actually engaging with the summit. Doesn't really make sense.
[X] Garden of Sinners-Focus your efforts on the Central Valley and Diao lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
I'm voting for this because having effort and time that should be going towards summit preparation inevitably collapse into another +1 for fief bullshit will legitimately shorten my lifespan. So screw it, time's misallocated either way, let's get some context for our political decisions. Just because the Diao are being tsun about it doesn't mean decisions we make during the summit won't implicate their interests, whether material or ideological. Getting a clearer view of those will help us navigate the issues as they arise. Getting a broader view of provincial perspective is just a good idea anyway.
I wish we weren't committing our time to politics before getting a clearer idea of where people stand or what issues there are through the preliminary diplo meeting we're having this month. This is a frustrating vote.
[ ] Garden of Sinners-Focus your efforts on the Central Valley and Diao lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
Honestly, this vote is pretty frustrating. So. Here's why:
We have a number of pokers in the fire with the Diao, but we haven't been able to properly dive into pokering about with them due to various circumstances. And they're actually kind of important to our long-term political stability and our cultural-historical projects and even a bit of interpersonal things? This is a great opportunity to actually, finally, poke at the Diao and browse through their subfactions for potential allies and all of that. But... the Diao aren't involved in the summit. Committing to this path means taking time in the next two months, the time leading up to the summit, and dedicating it to a provincial faction which has pointedly turned up its nose at the entire summit business. Doesn't really make sense.
Then we have the Wang, who haven't dodged the summit, so they'll be involved. Maybe? We have a Wang contact now, but we haven't actually spoken with her in that capacity. At all. So actually we don't really know what's up with the Wang, here? But you know what we do know about the Wang, it's that they've contributed to ~ F I E F - B U I L D I N G ~. If you look through the posts since the update, you'll see quite a lot of excitement over rubbing shoulders with the Wang to get more fief building goodies. Taking actions/narrative opportunities in the leadup to the summit, instead of actually engaging with the summit. Doesn't really make sense.
[X] Garden of Sinners-Focus your efforts on the Central Valley and Diao lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
I'm voting for this because having effort and time that should be going towards summit preparation inevitably collapse into another +1 for fief bullshit will legitimately shorten my lifespan. So screw it, time's misallocated either way, let's get some context for our political decisions. Just because the Diao are being tsun about it doesn't mean decisions we make during the summit won't implicate their interests, whether material or ideological. Getting a clearer view of those will help us navigate the issues as they arise. Getting a broader view of provincial perspective is just a good idea anyway.
I wish we weren't committing our time to politics before getting a clearer idea of where people stand or what issues there are through the preliminary diplo meeting we're having this month. This is a frustrating vote.
Ok, so we haven't really ever sat down and talked about what we're actually trying to do with the Summit here, and thus what our strategy is.
Broadly speaking, the summit seems to be about touching base and developing diplomatic contact more than anything. Really, anything major would be fairly premature at this stage since we're currently separated by a thousand miles of untamed wilderness full of hostile nomads. Unless of course the Ice Ladies decide to move more aggressively to expand into the southern Wall.
Looking at things, our general approach I think can be summed up as a southern ES development strategy, and we should be working towards that. We aren't really expected any major agreements to be being made with the ice ladies at this stage given the situation, so we're probably more expecting to touch base and try to just start building connections for when the war is over and we can get into more serious development. And also to ensure that we get along and see each other as being an opportunity to bring value to our border regions so that they don't think about maybe supporting the cloud nomads.
At the same time, if, for example, the White Sky look at these developments and decide to move more aggressively on the southern wall in order to secure their area of influence, then security questions and perhaps treaties become more salient. Understanding southern interests in the wall is obviously critical. At the same time, ensuring that parties that might be opposed to treaties with barbarians don't create too much trouble for us could also be important - and currently the central valley is very worried about their security. Hammering home the importance of security over cultural concerns could be valuable there - though obviously a bit of a different tack from what originally got us into trouble with the Diao.
Broadly speaking, the summit seems to be about touching base and developing diplomatic contact more than anything. Really, anything major would be fairly premature at this stage since we're currently separated by a thousand miles of untamed wilderness full of hostile nomads. Unless of course the Ice Ladies decide to move more aggressively to expand into the southern Wall.
Looking at things, our general approach I think can be summed up as a southern ES development strategy, and we should be working towards that. We aren't really expected any major agreements to be being made with the ice ladies at this stage given the situation, so we're probably more expecting to touch base and try to just start building connections for when the war is over and we can get into more serious development. And also to ensure that we get along and see each other as being an opportunity to bring value to our border regions so that they don't think about maybe supporting the cloud nomads.
- Long term goal - the Iron Road: develop the southern ES and bring security and prosperity to the region by domesticating the region. Eliminate the hostile southern border, and turn it into a value-adding trade connection to the South that we can tax the shit out of and make lots of money. Eliminate or suborn current threats through the benefits of trade. This will take decades if not centuries, and obviously the immediate issue is the war. Trade routes aren't getting built until that is done with.
- Immediate goals:
- Make sure ice ladies don't provide support to the Cloud Nomads (a concern given their ties to the southern tribes could lead to nomad sympathies)
- Ensure we both understand each other's interests in the regions, and can respect them
- Build connections that can lay the ground work for further diplomatic relations, and facilitate future development when we move into the post-War development phase
- Needs:
- Understanding of imperial interests and anticipated borders in the south
- Ability to establish positive relations with the ice ladies so we can both understand that we're civilised people who can work with each other for mutual benefit in the future, and that conflict really wouldn't serve either of us.
At the same time, if, for example, the White Sky look at these developments and decide to move more aggressively on the southern wall in order to secure their area of influence, then security questions and perhaps treaties become more salient. Understanding southern interests in the wall is obviously critical. At the same time, ensuring that parties that might be opposed to treaties with barbarians don't create too much trouble for us could also be important - and currently the central valley is very worried about their security. Hammering home the importance of security over cultural concerns could be valuable there - though obviously a bit of a different tack from what originally got us into trouble with the Diao.
[X] Mountain Halls-Focus your efforts on building reputation and cachet in the Foundations and Wang lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
[X] Garden of Sinners-Focus your efforts on the Central Valley and Diao lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
I'm getting increasingly skeptical of the Diao but whatever. Maybe this will let us learn more about them.
I'm getting increasingly skeptical of the Diao but whatever. Maybe this will let us learn more about them.
- Location
- the internet
You're wrong that the Diao have nothing to do with summit, technically. Factions of the Diao oppose the whole point of the summit and LQ needs to combat their xenophobic/pro-imperial views and counter those views with arguments that will actually sway people among the Diao and in their lands. By making this about softening/eliminating opposition to their goals towards diplomacy, Yrsillar can make this relevant to the summit.
[X] Mountain Halls-Focus your efforts on building reputation and cachet in the Foundations and Wang lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
- Location
- Earth
[X] Garden of Sinners-Focus your efforts on the Central Valley and Diao lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
[X] Garden of Sinners-Focus your efforts on the Central Valley and Diao lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
Ultimately decided to leverage on the Ith-ia war narrative to get our foot in while everyone still wants to talk to the hero of the day
Ultimately decided to leverage on the Ith-ia war narrative to get our foot in while everyone still wants to talk to the hero of the day
[X] Garden of Sinners-Focus your efforts on the Central Valley and Diao lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
I really doubt that we will ever be on great terms with the Diao. Their interests and beliefs are just too opposed to what we are trying to do. Maybe long term we can convince them, but that probably won't be for decades, once we have more power and a higher rank.
With that in mind, I consider improving Diao opinion here to be more pre-emotive damage control. We will piss them off again in the future
Personally, I'd much rather use this opportunity to get a strong base of support. Having a count clan annoyed at you is much more bearable when you have one willing to back you in turn.
I also think that it's important to consider our position. While we are taking a lot of personal initiative, we are ultimately Cai Renxiang's vassal. Admittedly I'm slightly unsure about every implication of that, but I think it's more useful to her for us to have allies and enemies, rather than being on meh to decent terms with everyone. She can "reign us in" to gain favor with the enemies, while relying on us to provide support from our allies.
I suspect a large portion of our power (or at the very least our wealth) will come from the southern trade route. As much as the Diao might have impacts on the politics, having good roads and the support of the nobles closest to the trade route (pretty sure Wang are closest?) will be much more important.
Several people have mentioned the limited opportunity to get some points with the Diao. And honestly, I don't think that's really a priority. Short term the only thing we are doing that might annoy them is the summit, and I think we'll be fine there regardless. Long term they won't be our allies anyway. So unless you are very focused on fox or want to fight more Ith-ia, I'd say vote Wang.
[ ] Mountain Halls-Focus your efforts on building reputation and cachet in the Foundations and Wang lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
With that in mind, I consider improving Diao opinion here to be more pre-emotive damage control. We will piss them off again in the future
Personally, I'd much rather use this opportunity to get a strong base of support. Having a count clan annoyed at you is much more bearable when you have one willing to back you in turn.
I also think that it's important to consider our position. While we are taking a lot of personal initiative, we are ultimately Cai Renxiang's vassal. Admittedly I'm slightly unsure about every implication of that, but I think it's more useful to her for us to have allies and enemies, rather than being on meh to decent terms with everyone. She can "reign us in" to gain favor with the enemies, while relying on us to provide support from our allies.
I suspect a large portion of our power (or at the very least our wealth) will come from the southern trade route. As much as the Diao might have impacts on the politics, having good roads and the support of the nobles closest to the trade route (pretty sure Wang are closest?) will be much more important.
Several people have mentioned the limited opportunity to get some points with the Diao. And honestly, I don't think that's really a priority. Short term the only thing we are doing that might annoy them is the summit, and I think we'll be fine there regardless. Long term they won't be our allies anyway. So unless you are very focused on fox or want to fight more Ith-ia, I'd say vote Wang.
[ ] Mountain Halls-Focus your efforts on building reputation and cachet in the Foundations and Wang lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
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Kai Merah
Hound Hearted Hedonist
- Location
- Somewhere in the corners of my imagination
Choosing this coz everyone thinks of us as a hero and expert against the enemy now, and I believe it's best to capitalise on that.
[X] Garden of Sinners-Focus your efforts on the Central Valley and Diao lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
[X] Garden of Sinners-Focus your efforts on the Central Valley and Diao lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
[x] Mountain Halls-Focus your efforts on building reputation and cachet in the Foundations and Wang lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
- Location
- Washington
I think it's not IMPOSSIBLE to basically cultivate a sub-faction within the Diao that specifically we're on good terms with, but it'd probably gonna be somewhat orthogonal to our direct political agenda and also honestly probably relies on Su Ling marrying into the Diao which I know goes against a lot of the thread's shipping desires. In general the Diao are pretty opposed to us but a theoretical faction of Diao That Would Like To Revive Diao Pyromancy is probably gonna be LESS opposed to us than average and at that point we might be able to leverage personal connections like that if they end up existing.
ElizatronicWarfa
Himejoshi Supreme
- Pronouns
- She/They
[X] Garden of Sinners-Focus your efforts on the Central Valley and Diao lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
kfrar
Aspiring Encyclopedia
Nah, we want Su Ling to get adopted into the Diao, to enable the thread's shipping desires.
Play our cards right with the Diao Fox Faction, and Su Ling becomes the political marriage.
[X] Garden of Sinners-Focus your efforts on the Central Valley and Diao lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
(Also, I'm happy to use the Meng as our core support base and progressing that questline is non-optional for us, so I'd rather strike while the iron is hot for the Diao.)
Garden of Sinners kind of has better follow-through, here. Like, we built up a decent chunk of narrative working with Diao Hualing on the sabotage thing, then there was the Yan Renshu interrupt, and now we've got this temporary swell of respect and reputation as a result. But now it's just kind of hanging? And we never did get a real debrief with Diao Hualing.
Framing wise it just kind of looks like that thread is leading somewhere? It'd be weird for it to just drop out of nowhere.
By contrast, there isn't currently any livewire plots in play with the Wang right now. I'm sure we'll be getting into their stuff a little bit with general summit prep, but then that can be handled then. We're on friendly terms, no huge risk there.
I just think it'd be odd to essentially drop what looks like a still live plot thread to go scrounging around for a brand new one, with no clear objective behind it.
Framing wise it just kind of looks like that thread is leading somewhere? It'd be weird for it to just drop out of nowhere.
By contrast, there isn't currently any livewire plots in play with the Wang right now. I'm sure we'll be getting into their stuff a little bit with general summit prep, but then that can be handled then. We're on friendly terms, no huge risk there.
I just think it'd be odd to essentially drop what looks like a still live plot thread to go scrounging around for a brand new one, with no clear objective behind it.
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CedeTheBees
Probably high right now
- Location
- Somewhere
- Pronouns
- They/Them
The stuff in the parentheses is important. Your vote is counted separately.
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[x] Garden of Sinners-Focus your efforts on the Central Valley and Diao lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
We need to get started on the Diao sometime, and now is an unique opportunity to get an in with them. With the Cai being so small, they are the defacto-adjacent ruling clan of the Emerald Seas. The moment in time is a bit chaotic, the people we are talking to will probably more receptive to us than in a more normal situation. It's opportunity, and we should strike it while its hot.
The Wang are alreadygoing to be fellow travellers LQ's quest, unless something goes catrastrophically wrong, so I feel like they should be the lower priority here.
We need to get started on the Diao sometime, and now is an unique opportunity to get an in with them. With the Cai being so small, they are the defacto-adjacent ruling clan of the Emerald Seas. The moment in time is a bit chaotic, the people we are talking to will probably more receptive to us than in a more normal situation. It's opportunity, and we should strike it while its hot.
The Wang are alreadygoing to be fellow travellers LQ's quest, unless something goes catrastrophically wrong, so I feel like they should be the lower priority here.
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