- Location
- Romania
[X] You
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
-
- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
It was a bit more ambiguous.
Knowledge OF Dark Magic is not illegal in itself, and indeed it is basically impossible for a Magister who fights Dark Magic users to avoid learning something of Dark Magic in the process, just by observation.
Seeking knowledge of Dark Magic is in itself a suspicious, but not inherently illegal activity. Because it is often followed by using Dark Magic.
And the letter of the law doesn't matter one bit with the Liber Mortis, because this book brings with it the capacity to singlehandedly take on the Empire. Nobody is trusted to have more power than the Empire if they went Black Magister. Granted, any Black Lord Magister is epicly bad news to begin with, but they deal with it because Lord Magisters rarely go astray.
So file it as Legal, But Nobody Cares That It Is.
Last edited:
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I think we often exaggerate the power of the Liber Mortis. Like, no joke, it is a very significant book that can make a two bit caster into a full fledged Master Necromancer, but there are a few limiting factors to keep in mind here.
Vanhel was a genius. He lacked magical power, but he was an extremely smart guy who revolutionised the field of Necromancy with his Danse Macabre. He wasn't just some schmuck that got the contents of the book and used it to single-handedly hold back the Under-Empire. The second factor is that Vanhel had a ridiculous stock of Warpstone from the meteors that fell down all over Sylvania, and Sylvania is implied to be a heavily magical land already, so he took advantage of that stuff to do even more than what he would normally be capable of. Corpse Carts were invented by Vanhel because of all the corpses that piled up causing a confluence of energies that gave him an idea for a mobile war machine consisting of Dhar and Shyish.
Mathilde can very much be a threat to the entirety of the Empire if she fully embraced the Liber Mortis, but that's because she's a Magic 9, Learning 29 Lady Magister with an absurd knowledge base and powerful magic, artifacts and a number of additional factors that could make her absolutely frightening. If the Liber Mortis was in the posession of any random Magicker, I doubt they would cause anywhere near the same amount of damage as Vanhel or Mathilde could. Not that it's something that should be trifled with either. Whether it's Empire wide threat or not, it's still an absurdly destructive threat that could cause the equivalent of a nuclear fallout except with Dhar.
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Short version of my argument: Vlad knew the contents of the Liber Mortis, had centuries of prep time, collected warpstone from Mordheim, performed rituals using Drakenhof as a base, was an intelligent and ancient progenitor, and even though he was definitely super dangerous and caused havoc and mayhem, his total damage could be argued to be less than that of Gorbad Ironclaw 300 years prior.
I'm not saying I disagree with everything you said, but it should be noted that 'a petty necromancer with one chapter of this book would be a threat to an Imperial province' comes from Mathilde, with her lore and understanding of magic and the empire. She might be overstating things, but I do not think it is easy to judge by how much.
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Yeah it's something that Mathilde said, which I don't entirely agree on. It's possible that her internal exaggeration is a reaction to the general hysteria involving the book. It has a lot of weight and history behind it, so it's effect can often be exaggerated by people with personal emotional weight involving the history of the book. I think it would be more accurate to say that a Magister with the Liber Mortis could be a threat to an Imperial Province.
At the end of the day, I think it's pretty telling that both Vlad and Mannfred failed to become emperor and are instead dead and imprisoned somewhere.
Sure, they caused a lot of destruction getting to that point, but they both ultimately failed.
And this was before the college's were a thing.
Sure, they caused a lot of destruction getting to that point, but they both ultimately failed.
And this was before the college's were a thing.
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Actually, I'll be fair and give Vlad the benefit of the doubt. He wanted to control the Empire, not destroy it. He probably restrained himself from going absolutely ham like some others (Cough Konrad Cough) would. One might question why he cares since he could create an Empire of Undead to follow him like Nagash planned to do with Nehekhara, but maybe Vlad is just weird and he wants to rule humans for some reason.
EDIT: I somehow forgot that Vampires need humans for sustained survival, since they need blood.
EDIT: I somehow forgot that Vampires need humans for sustained survival, since they need blood.
Last edited:
I think Mathilde knows enough about the subject matter, the quality of necromancers and strategy that she's not far off.
A necromancer in seclusion with the Liber Mortis and time to build up has everything they need to challenge an imperial province. Remember, its not just necromancy, it covers a variety of necromancy adjacent lore, insight into the workings of Dhar, and detailed tactics and strategy with the use of undead, including likely sapient undead.
The major limitations on 'wild' necromancers are:
-They're using Dhar wrongly. Gather, shape and toss like a live grenade massively caps the skill that can be achieved, and greatly increases the risk of fumbling. Using the First Secret of Dhar greatly enhances the potency and consistency of Dark Magic
-Their tactics are primitive. The majority of necromancers have no formal education in strategy, while the Liber Mortis is written by an author who is rather gifted at the art of using undead in war. And while a peasant copying moves out of the Liber Mortis is not exactly a master general, they are a major qualitative change from "Push large horde of undead in the direction of enemy"
-The variety of undead used is dismal and the control scheme poor. Most necromancers don't know how to make that many kinds of undead, and the strategic depth offered by shoving swarms of directly controlled is terrible, forcing the necromancer to remain close to their forces to achieve much. The Liber Mortis informs about how they can be created, or found and bound to servitude
-Their spellbook is incomplete. This greatly limits their ability to raise their Magic score by mastering spells. And if you happen to have nothing between Lesser magic and Battle Magic...well, good luck surviving Battle Wizard Track With Dhar. The Liber Mortis comes with a complete Lore of Necromancy spellbook
Suffice to say, by changing these factors a necromancer changes from leader of a warband to a Province scale actor. And THAT means that instead of being quickly taken down they're likely to last long enough to expand on their tricks. Even changing SOME of these factors would make a terror, as Mathilde alluded to regarding degraded copies in circulation.
Last edited:
- Location
- Utrecht
That, and Vlad probably likes the Living, and not just as prey, slaves or pets.
He fell in love with Isabella when she was still mortal, and bound to him in a marriage of convenience.
- Location
- Aotearoa
While I wasn't in favour of an apprentice initially, even when Eike was Ranald'd, between the rolls for her aptitudes being so close a parallel to Mathildes and growing familiarity with the idea, as well the sympathetic portrayal by Boney, has brought me around to it more.
[x] You
But I'm also not completely wedded to the idea and I'd also be happy for her to study with Wilhelmine, that'd be fine with me too.
[x] Wilhelmine
[x] You
But I'm also not completely wedded to the idea and I'd also be happy for her to study with Wilhelmine, that'd be fine with me too.
[x] Wilhelmine
Last edited:
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
We're moving in with a whole company of Dwarfen miners to dig up what is probably the most heavily-watched location in the southern Empire.
If we didn't tell them, they'd probably have questions.
Nope, if we dig em up, their going into our library. The colleges don't have the manpower or inclination to go through that horde if they already have a trustworthy LM on sight with their own library and dwarven Karak around said library.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Vampires falling in love with individual humans and turning them doesn't necessarily have any bearing on their general opinions on the living at large.
Sources on how Vlad's rule was vary quite a bit. 8th edition at least includes a section talking about how many children tended to 'disappear' during Vlad's rule.
- Location
- Utrecht
I prefer a "not a complete monster" Vlad.
Just one less bad than the insane nobles of Sylvania, enough for the Sylvanians to prefer him than his predecessor.
Children disappearing is one of the things that make people take note, even if they're completely powerless to do anything about it.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Regardless of his personal rule, it's a pretty major mark against him that he empowered those insane nobles of Sylvania. By turning them into Vampires.
I see people say sometimes things along the lines of "The peasants of Sylvania preferred the Vampires to their old nobles", even though the two groups were the same people.
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Believe it or not, but End Times Vlad is actually a very compelling representation of him. In there, he's a classic Tyrant who believes that humans have great potential as long as they have a firm guiding hand leading them, and he believes that he is that guiding hand who can lead humans to greatness. In there he presents an actual degree of respect to humans fighting Chaos and doing their job, but also believes that them being Undead makes them much better soldiers, way more coordinated and loyal.
- Location
- Oklahoma
... Or we burn them, like we did with Alka-seltzer's books.
We only did that because we had no way to secure them and the alternative was letting the mob get them
Sinsystems
Patron Librarian
[x] You
Once we have Eike as our apprentice I want one of the first tasks we give in when visiting 8 Peaks is to tell her to get a specific book from the Library, without telling her about the We. Would be hilarious and a lesson to expect the unexpected.
Once we have Eike as our apprentice I want one of the first tasks we give in when visiting 8 Peaks is to tell her to get a specific book from the Library, without telling her about the We. Would be hilarious and a lesson to expect the unexpected.
The only books that could be a danger to us are the ones with their own thoughts on the matter. I don't think there would be many of those kinds under Drakenhof. And the rest will run against the iron wall of Mathilda liking being a dawi wizard lady and not wanting to move out any times soon.
SakSak
Unbound
- Location
- The Cold Wastes of the North
It should be remembered that the relationship between the Witch-hunters and Magisters / Lord/Lady Magisters in good standing, is that the Magisters are the backup the Witch-Hunters call upon when they're in too deep of a shit.
Witch-Hunters directly witnessing a Magister doing highly illegal shit? Stakes and burnination (if they can manage) with a very good and very thorough explanation needed to be given to the Colleges. Otherwise, signal the alarms and call for the Colleges to handle the rogue Magister.
Witch-Hunters directly witnessing a Magister doing what they think might be somewhat illegal shit? Um, have to check for a dispensation, this could in fact be sanctioned. Better get validation from the Colleges as well.
Witch-Hunters suspecting a Magister may be doing illegal shit? Report to the Colleges and move on; Can't exactly hang Magisters based on suspicions, because that would lead to civil war.
In every other circumstance, Witch-Hunters and Magisters of the Colleges are direct, if at times only tolarated, allies working towards the same goals of keeping the Empire safe and secure from Dark Magic.
Yeah, Witch-Hunters probably going to look crosseyed at a magic user looting a likely Dark Magic library. But their course of action is to complain to other magic-users about it. Which, given we're a Lady Magister of the Grey College, probably amounts to nothing, and the Witch-Hunters would know this.
So they jot down our name on some list somewhere, and the next time an undead army rises they double-check we're not in the area or have an alibi and if we don't, then they'll likely call upon someone of higher authority to interview us.
It's kind of hard to threaten a Lady Magister of the Grey College with a sword in the dark keeping them in the straight and narrow, when the Grey College is the sword and we're among its highest and therefore most trusted members.
EDIT: hell, it is not at all far-fetched that if some magister from some other College looted that library, we'd be potentially on the list of people called by the Witch-Hunters to vet that Magister and examine those books!
Witch-Hunters directly witnessing a Magister doing highly illegal shit? Stakes and burnination (if they can manage) with a very good and very thorough explanation needed to be given to the Colleges. Otherwise, signal the alarms and call for the Colleges to handle the rogue Magister.
Witch-Hunters directly witnessing a Magister doing what they think might be somewhat illegal shit? Um, have to check for a dispensation, this could in fact be sanctioned. Better get validation from the Colleges as well.
Witch-Hunters suspecting a Magister may be doing illegal shit? Report to the Colleges and move on; Can't exactly hang Magisters based on suspicions, because that would lead to civil war.
In every other circumstance, Witch-Hunters and Magisters of the Colleges are direct, if at times only tolarated, allies working towards the same goals of keeping the Empire safe and secure from Dark Magic.
Yeah, Witch-Hunters probably going to look crosseyed at a magic user looting a likely Dark Magic library. But their course of action is to complain to other magic-users about it. Which, given we're a Lady Magister of the Grey College, probably amounts to nothing, and the Witch-Hunters would know this.
So they jot down our name on some list somewhere, and the next time an undead army rises they double-check we're not in the area or have an alibi and if we don't, then they'll likely call upon someone of higher authority to interview us.
It's kind of hard to threaten a Lady Magister of the Grey College with a sword in the dark keeping them in the straight and narrow, when the Grey College is the sword and we're among its highest and therefore most trusted members.
EDIT: hell, it is not at all far-fetched that if some magister from some other College looted that library, we'd be potentially on the list of people called by the Witch-Hunters to vet that Magister and examine those books!
Last edited:
Also the relationship between Witch Hunters and Wizards is self correcting. The ones too bigoted to work with each other are more likely to be eaten by gribblies whilst those who do work together are more likely to survive to see another day.
Jolly Cooperation!
Jolly Cooperation!
K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
- Location
- Belgium
- Pronouns
- He
Yeah, Vlad is a conquering tyrant who does pretty awful things, but he's not cartoonishly evil like his successors and Nagash. He's no more evil than Alexander the Great or Mehmer the Conqueror. His depiction in End Times is imo one of the few good things in there.