Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
[X] [LIBRARY] Back-fill.
[X] [PURCHASE] The Lady: Extensive Bretonnian, Shallya: Extensive Bretonnian, The Kingdom Of Bretonnia: Extensive Bretonnian, Trade: Extensive Eonir, The Karaz Ankor: Extensive and Esoteric Eonir, a dwarven axe for Baba Brzeginias/Gerdouen
 
We're probably not doing Back-fill again period, certainly not doing it two turns in a row.
What makes you say this? A lot of the support I've seen is from people wanting to turn KAU into a "proper" library and I highly doubt one round of backfill will even get close to that goal unless it gives us a truly ludicrous amount of total books.
 
Lifetime Goals;
  • Fuck (up the plans of) the Chaos Gods
  • End Times Delenda Est
  • Betterment of Empire, Karak Ankor, and related polities
  • Living up to Abelhelm's example
Long Term Goals
  • Waystone Project
  • The Library of Kron-Azril-Ungol
  • Panoramia
  • Running the EIC
  • Screwing over Skaven
  • Ranald
  • Acquiring books of knowledge/smut
  • Finish writing all papers
Short Term Goals
  • Hiring/getting support for the Waystone Project
  • Producing WSP results
  • Supporting Heidi & Manfred
  • Panoramia

Decided this might be a thing to do. Things in italics are thread goals, as opposed to Mathilde's goals.

Anything I should add or remove? If this becomes I thread mark I'll try to keep it up to date.
 
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What makes you say this? A lot of the support I've seen is from people wanting to turn KAU into a "proper" library and I highly doubt one round of backfill will even get close to that goal unless it gives us a truly ludicrous amount of total books.
It'll fill up a lot of the holes we have. Of the remaining holes left, probably only a few are ones we have particular interest in filling, so better and cheaper to simply pay for them ourselves.

In addition to that, our next two library destinations are Drakenhof and Vlag. Drakenhof has been hinted to have a bunch of looted Empire books from across centuries. Vlag loves us and will gladly partner with us no matter what our current collection. Between our library post-backfill, Drakenhof, and Vlag, that's enough books to get in good with just about any library not already inclined to dislike us (like the Great Library of Marienburg). This is before considering we have the Great Deed we can use to guarantee copy access to all the books of the Librarium Secularum: the biggest secular library in the Empire.
 
Oh, wait, college books is a library acquisition, which is distinct from a library action. I totally mixed those up, huh.

So then its mainly competing with Backfill, so... then its a question of the role of Backfill for me. Is backfill something we're going to need to do repeatedly in order to turn the Library into a "proper library"? How many books will it add?

I've seen a lot of talk about how Backfill will give the library more legitimacy as a real library, but how much is that actually the case, especially for a singular action?

EDIT: And is backfilling to make our library more "legit" not somewhat redundant when we've got plans for getting a crapton of books from other libraries, which will also give a huge assortment of books on a large variety of topics?
 
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[X] [LIBRARY] Back-fill.
[X] [PURCHASE] The Lady: Extensive Bretonnian, Shallya: Extensive Bretonnian, The Kingdom Of Bretonnia: Extensive Bretonnian, Trade: Extensive Eonir, The Karaz Ankor: Extensive and Esoteric Eonir, a dwarven axe for Baba Brzeginias/Gerdouen
You're wrong to worry about a lot of libraries being Scrollbearer aligned, but for the sake of argument, let's that most libraries are indeed Scrollbearers - we still want the Lorekeepers. The Lorekeepers are closely allied to the Order of Mysteries who we know are organised by the priest in charge of the Great Library of Altdorf, so it's quite likely that the biggest Verenan library in the Empire belong to the Lorekeepers. Let the Scrollbearers keep their many libraries (which I need to emphasise they don't actually have) - we have the biggest one.
A lot of institutional libraries were indicated to behave like Scrollbearers, even if they aren't Verenans. Their rare books are their claim to prestige.

They would be nuch harder to get on board if openly affiliated with an order that seeks to spread them
Sure try to trick the cult of an ancestor god. You know, if you want to go slayer, you don't need to be this elaborate about it. :p

Jokes aside, the fact that theres a custom for the crowd to promptly not be is a strong indicator that it happens often enough.
Less trick, more guilt trip for the good of the clan.

This is important if a suitor the clan likes but the Bride does not wins the gifting round
While I understand what he's saying, surely he should understand that all the routes he suggested are subpar compared to Marienburg? The River of Echoes is a highly flawed trade route thanks to being so narrow that specialised boats have to be made, and it can't carry large cargo. Land travel is inherently more dangerous, unreliable and slower/less efficient in terms of cost vs cargo capacity than water travel. Marienburg's geography is vital to how it can maintain itself as the most optimal trade route to the Empire. If Marienburg cut off all trade to the Empire, the Empire would starve (though that might change with the new canals). It wouldn't be able to supply itself with the other methods it suggested because it's just too damn big for those inefficient methods of trade. I'm sure he knows this.
Think from the Marienburg perspective.
They don't care about the ability to service Imperial trade, but rather their profitability.

And they'd continue to profit because of trade friendly policies, skilled logisticians and other services.

He's definitely downplaying the importance of geography however. But then he's well aware of how much earthmoving is needed to even get to even ground with their natural advantages. Barring Act of Slann its not happening
I don't think we'd need to clear out the Iron Orcs to get the Damsels help, I think that identifying what's up with them and wrecking the place that's making their chaos armour would be enough and something Mathilde has the tools to do.
Boney clairified. Its both.
We need to demonstrate some results then take care of the orcs occupying their attentions
 
Anything I should add or remove? If this becomes I thread mark I'll try to keep it up to date.

I fundamentally do not think this is a good idea, because Goals are whatever the voters say they are, including voters not participating discussion this week, or who might come to the game for the first time a month from now. We can only build consensus through votes, not your threadmarked post.

For instance, there's items on your list I don't care about and won't be voting to pursue but I know other voters care about a lot, so they can't be both on the list and off the list.
 
It'll fill up a lot of the holes we have. Of the remaining holes left, probably only a few are ones we have particular interest in filling, so better and cheaper to simply pay for them ourselves.
I'll be honest I have no idea what you consider the holes to be that need plugging but there are tons of different things backfill can target and we get the books at random so I feel like hoping backfill will plug any of the holes you care about it is a big gamble. The idea it will somehow plug all or most of them in a single action seems extremely unlikely.
 
It's a shame that we're unlikely to get Damsels unless we can clear out the orcs, which seems... tricky to manage, if Carcassonne hasn't been able to do it themselves. That seems like a task that'd need an army, and the only one in the area we might be able to borrow is Karak Norn's, and I am skeptical about that for a number of reasons.

That is not at all my reading of the response we got. It's not about the orcs. It's about having more than promises and dreams. Lay the foundations, get in a couple of years of progress and show tangible results, and then they'll consider coming in.

There seems to be a weird idea that has taken root among some members of the thread (not necessarily you) that anyone not recruited before Lay the Foundations will never be recruited, but in fact it's the exact opposite. It will be much easier to get organizations on board after we produce some kind of results showing all this could lead somewhere,
 
[X] [LIBRARY] Colleges of Magic: Apparitions, Power Stones, Forest Spirits, Liminal Realms
[X] [PURCHASE] The Lady: Extensive Bretonnian, Shallya: Extensive Bretonnian, The Kingdom Of Bretonnia: Extensive Bretonnian, Trade: Extensive Eonir, A dwarven axe for Baba Brzeginias/Gerdouen

Well, I'm shifting my library vote to this. I'm way more interested in getting this prepwork optimization out of the way than some nebulous "library legitimacy" that I'm not sure we even really need, especially right now.

Like, is say, Vlag going to care that we haven't backfilled this turn? Will the Black Library? Are people carefully keeping track of our library to make sure we get plenty of Good Books before we add anything from the Black Library?

The main thing here I'm not sure about in my vote is Liminal Realms, but they seem like something that's becoming a lot more relevant as of late. Also they sound very fascinating. If someone else has a better suggestion, though...
 
Regarding the library vote:
[ ] [LIBRARY] Back-fill.
[ ] [PURCHASE] The Lady: Extensive Bretonnian, Shallya: Extensive Bretonnian, The Kingdom Of Bretonnia: Extensive Bretonnian (300 gc)
As I've already said there's a decent chance that The Lady is Ranald's daughter and those books will help us see how likely that is. This is the only way to get hints regarding that theory that doesn't involve actually turning the coin to the Father and walking up to the Damsels, which I think would be premature at this point.

Is this post why everyone is voting for all those Bretonnian books? Seems like a wild goose chase to me, and I'm not interesting in spending a bunch of coin on book that seem irrelevant to the quest as it is today.
 
I think I'm much more inclined to do Backfill the majority of the time, and do the other acquisitions only when something specific carries significant benefit. In this case, I think "specific carrying significant benefit" applies. Right now I'm leaning towards doing the College acquisition today, and then Backfilling for probably a few turns.

EDIT: To be specific, I view Backfill as the "fallback" option. Right now I want to do the library acquisition that we need to do before we can progress a bunch of our tech trees.
 
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[X] [LIBRARY] Back-fill.

[X] [DWARF] No purchase.

[X] [COLLEGE] No purchase.

[X] [PURCHASE] No purchase.
 
That is not at all my reading of the response we got. It's not about the orcs. It's about having more than promises and dreams. Lay the foundations, get in a couple of years of progress and show tangible results, and then they'll consider coming in.

There seems to be a weird idea that has taken root among some members of the thread (not necessarily you) that anyone not recruited before Lay the Foundations will never be recruited, but in fact it's the exact opposite. It will be much easier to get organizations on board after we produce some kind of results showing all this could lead somewhere,
Word of Boney you may have missed:
She wasn't saying "get results with the waystone project, then we'll join", she was saying "kill these orcs and then we'll join".
She was saying both.
So it is, in fact, about the orcs as well as having concrete results. I am strongly in favor of doing followup recruitments in the future after we lay the foundations. However, the AP necessary to clear the orcs out of the mountains is something I raise an eyebrow at. We'll see how things go, but right now my subjective assessment of how likely it is we get Damsels in the future is way down unless it turns out we need them for some reason.
 
The main thing here I'm not sure about in my vote is Liminal Realms, but they seem like something that's becoming a lot more relevant as of late. Also they sound very fascinating. If someone else has a better suggestion, though...
I'm voting back-fill but this seems decent as far as a Colleges of Magic purchase goes. If you don't like liminal realms consider instead getting books on the Aethyr - we already have 2 BOÖK on the subject so its less BOÖK, but it still saves us the 4 College Favour (which is the really expensive part) and the Aethyr is a pretty broad subject.
 
Well, I'm shifting my library vote to this. I'm way more interested in getting this prepwork optimization out of the way than some nebulous "library legitimacy" that I'm not sure we even really need, especially right now.

Like, is say, Vlag going to care that we haven't backfilled this turn? Will the Black Library? Are people carefully keeping track of our library to make sure we get plenty of Good Books before we add anything from the Black Library?

This is a good point, we have at least two actions that we're likely to prioritize that are pretty indifferent to how full our library is, plus some others we could do if that time frame still doesn't plump it up satisfactorily. So forgoing backfill this turn isn't that big a deal.

Word of Boney you may have missed:


So it is, in fact, about the orcs as well as having concrete results. I am strongly in favor of doing followup recruitments in the future after we lay the foundations. However, the AP necessary to clear the orcs out of the mountains is something I raise an eyebrow at. We'll see how things go, but right now my subjective assessment of how likely it is we get Damsels in the future is way down unless it turns out we need them for some reason.

I read that as she's saying both statements are true. Basically either way would work, not both as in you need to do both.
 
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