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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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[ ] Starting up debt free, with Webmat field trip
-[ ] MAX: Learning: Gyrocopter lessons from Prince Gotri's pilots.
-[ ] WEB-MAT: Investigate Alric with one or more members of WEB-MAT (Egrimm) (NEW)
-[ ] WEB-MAT: Investigate Gryphon Wood with one or more members of WEB-MAT (Johann, Egrimm, Max) (NEW)
-[ ] Personally scrutinize a Waystone as thoroughly as you possibly can.
-[ ] Lay the foundations: work with the current members of WEB-MAT and the Waystone Project to build a single unified framework for understanding the Waystones.
-[ ] Attempt to bring a Major House or Ward into the Waystone Project (Frost)
-[ ] Write a paper: Observations of Johann's prosthetic arm (FRESH)
-[ ] EIC: Investigate what trade goods the Eonir might be willing to import from the Empire. (NEW)
-[ ] Seek the publishing contacts to start acquiring large amounts of books from a nearby realm (specify which: Bretonnia)
[ ] The Protector

The idea of making the gryphon wood investigation a full college activity is one I liked, so I dropped the ritual class in order to have Max available to fly us around the area, as that seems like both the best niche for him and helps mobility wise which is more necessary if it's not just Johann and Mathilde. The idea of using the EIC to investigate I don't think would be too useful, as they've not really got any sort of contacts in the area, on top of it not seeming like the kind of thing they'd be good at anyway.

Also switched protector in as I'm not horribly concerned about the foundations action, we've got a solid group there.

I don't think now is the time to seek agreements with other libraries, as ours still isn't even finished construction. A bit more time to finish that up, expand the collection and build some more acquisitions channels seem like the way to go in order to make it more appealing.
 
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I still do not think we should bring the mage whose skill set is 'archer' and 'scribe' into the woods to fight... well the sort of things that live the woods in Warhammer. We have the seed and the belt, Johann is made of gold, poor Max does not have those advantages and is only human. I am also not sure how useful a gyro is in dense woods, where would it land?
 
DragonParadox said:
I still do not think we should bring the mage whose skill set is 'archer' and 'scribe' into the woods to fight... well the sort of things that live the woods in Warhammer. We have the seed and the belt, Johann is made of gold, poor Max does not have those advantages and is only human. I am also not sure how useful a gyro is in dense woods, where would it land?
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The problem is taking place over a wide area though, being able to fly from the Kislev side of the forest and back, multiple times if necessary. Could well be useful.

Max at this point is also a solid combatant, it's not his ideal terrain perhaps but I expect he'll do well enough. Not all the members need to be together for the entire time also, they can be deployed as their aptitude suits.
 
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Codex said:
Page 126 and 127 of Tome of Salvation 2nd Edition:

"Of all the races within the Empire, Halflings could be said to be the least obviously religious. Halflings prefer to celebrate the here and now rather than the heroes and deeds of the forgotten past, worshipping their Gods when circumstances require it, but not giving themselves over to piety. Most Empire folk—especially those in Stirland—would say that the only thing a Halfling worships is the drink in his flagon and the food in his belly.

It is true that Halflings are a comparatively irreligious folk, their somewhat happy-go-lucky nature at odds with serious, organised religion. When practised, the Halfling faiths are more often used as a thinly veiled excuse to feast (much as many Humans do, if truth be told—Halflings are just more honest in their motivations)."

"Of the four major races, Halflings are the most irreverent. Setting aside the fact that Halflings have no talent for magic, the small folk are so completely unsuited to the idea of venerating anything that to even broach the topic to them would result in endless gales of laughter, perhaps followed by a proper robbery to teach the uncultured fool a good lesson. The Halflings do have their Gods, certainly, but no Halfling could be bothered to commit himself to daily and nightly prostration in the name of anyone, let alone some invisible presence that does nothing but sit around and eat and have dalliances with its siblings. When a pious mood does settle on Halflings, a festival results, and a few locals are selected to officiate the affair, being bribed heavily not to get overly drunk so that they may maintain at least the appearance of ceremony"

The official source for religion in 2E treats the Halflings like a joke, so there isn't much material on Quinsberry that isn't the Lodge.
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Still, in regards to DL, we've met a High Priestess of Esmeralda, I'm sure some level of official priesthood for Quinsberry exists. Even if there's nothing in canon that talks about it.
 
I'm mostly confused by why Bretonnia, the least literate nation in the old world, is in more Library votes than the Verenans, the biggest book nerds in the old world.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
I'm mostly confused by why Bretonnia, the least literate nation in the old world, is in more Library votes than the Verenans, the biggest book nerds in the old world.
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All that needs to be done to get access to Bretonnian books is contact some book sellers and give them money. Getting access to Verenan libraries will I expect cost concessions. Concessions that will probably be quite a bit heavier (If they even agree to deal at all) at this point then they might be later on, when our library has a bit more polish to it.
 
Thomasfoolery said:
All that needs to be done to get access to Bretonnian books is contact some book sellers and give them money. Getting access to Verenan libraries will I expect cost concessions. Concessions that will probably be quite a bit heavier (If they even agree to deal at all) at this point then they might be later on, when our library has a bit more polish to it.
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Mopman43 said:
I think the logic is that we need to work our way up to the Verenans, that we don't have much to offer them currently.
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they were willing to make a deal way back when Our personal library was just getting started?

this is already way better then back then.
 
Ok, final plans before the vote

[ ] Plan: Jyn: let talk to people
-[ ] WEB-MAT: Investigate Gryphon Wood with one or more members of WEB-MAT (Johann and Egrimm)
-[ ] Attempt to bring a Major House or Ward into the Waystone Project (Ward of the Frost)
-[ ] Spend time assisting or ingratiating yourself with someone else: Have Lord Magister Krammovitch introduce you to the Hedgefolk of The Forest of Shadows to get your foot in the door.
-[ ] Spend time assisting or ingratiating yourself with someone else: use the pretext of your recent interest in Hekarti to contact and get the feel of House Tindomiel
-[ ] COIN: The Father
-[ ] EIC: Have the Hochlander set up a shadow headquarters for the EIC in the Sunken Palace.
-[ ] Seek an agreement with a Cult to have access to their libraries (Verenans)
-[ ] Write a paper: Observations of Johann's prosthetic arm (FRESH)

Let's use the talking to people action for once, instead of just assuming.


[ ] Plan: Jyn+debt free
-[ ] MAX: Learning: How to fly a Gyrocopter
-[ ] WEB-MAT: Investigate Alric with Johann
-[ ] WEB-MAT: Investigate Gryphon Wood with Johann and Egrimm
-[ ] Attempt to bring a Major House or Ward into the Waystone Project (Ward of the Frost)
-[ ] Spend time assisting or ingratiating yourself with someone else: Have Lord Magister Krammovitch introduce you to the Hedgefolk of The Forest of Shadows to get your foot in the door.
-[ ] COIN: The Father
-[ ] EIC: Have the Hochlander set up a shadow headquarters for the EIC in the Sunken Palace.
-[ ] Seek an agreement with a Cult to have access to their libraries (Verenans)
-[ ] Write a paper: Observations of Johann's prosthetic arm (FRESH)

The 'no debts option', while still talking to the Hedgefolk

and if we are going to the Gryphon woods anyways (every plan has it) then why not talk to the Hedgewise and get some synergy going?

[ ] Plan: Jyn+Lay the foundations
-[ ] WEB-MAT: Investigate Gryphon Wood with one or more members of WEB-MAT (Johann and Egrimm)
-[ ] Attempt to bring a Major House or Ward into the Waystone Project (Ward of the Frost)
-[ ] Spend time assisting or ingratiating yourself with someone else: Have Lord Magister Krammovitch introduce you to the Hedgefolk of The Forest of Shadows to get your foot in the door.
-[ ] Lay the foundations: work with the current members of WEB-MAT and the Waystone Project to build a single unified framework for understanding the Waystones.
--[ ] The Gambler
-[ ] Personally scrutinize a Waystone as thoroughly as you possibly can.
-[ ] EIC: Have the Hochlander set up a shadow headquarters for the EIC in the Sunken Palace.
-[ ] Seek an agreement with a Cult to have access to their libraries (Verenans)
-[ ] Write a paper: Observations of Johann's prosthetic arm (FRESH)

the option that I don't really want, but would prefer if a 'lay foundation' vote wins.
 
Mopman43 said:
I think the logic is that we need to work our way up to the Verenans, that we don't have much to offer them currently.
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If we are going for expanding our contacts, wouldn't Araby be a better option? Seems like they'd have more different books available compared to our current options.

That said I am still staning Quinsberry as a way to actively improve the library compared to just stalling and maintaining a holding pattern.
 
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Jyn Ryvia said:
they were willing to make a deal why back when Our personal library was just getting started?

this is already way better then back then.
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I don't recall any sort of guarantee they were willing to make a deal. We had an option to contact them to try to set up an exchange. But that A: Wasn't guaranteed to work, and B: was a more personal scale, less formal arrangement, that seems like it would've flown under the radar more easily.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
Even if I'm not for Attempting to bring people in before talking to them, please consider the Hedgewise before the Ice witchs, we have an in with the HW, not so much with the Ice Witchs.
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I support getting the Hedgewise, but Haletha is one of the candidates for using the Father Coin, so we should get them on the same turn we investigate the other options.
Cadaeth was the one who pitched the Waystone Project to us. We've already talked.
 
Jreengus said:
If we are going for expanding our contacts, wouldn't Araby be a better option? Seems like they'd have more different books available compared to our current options.

That said I am still Staning Quinsberry as a way to actively improve the library compared to just stalling and maintaining a holding pattern.
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We'd have to establish some sort of translator situation at some point if we're trying to get areas like Araby. Bretonni is mutually intelligible with Reikspiel, and Verenans have plenty of books in Reikspiel, but I don't imagine many of the locals know Arabyan, so if we import books we'd need to deal with the translation aspect. We'd also have to take that into account for Tilean/Estalian books, but we have local Tileans and probably Estalians to draw from thanks to the Undumgi and proximity to Barak Varr.
 
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As some one who is supporting getting contacts in Bretonnia this turn, I have to say that Quinsberry is a great idea and I'll support it next turn (and if this turn it's going to come down do Quinsberry or some other cult I'll go with Quinsberry).

The library should start with easier targets. The books and prestige we'll get from one collaborator will assist with getting the bigger organizations, which probably won't be as interested in the library as it currently stands. And I think the Quinsberry cult is a good first target.

Credit to @Jreengus for coming up with this idea. I'm kind of mad that I didn't come up with this myself because it's so obvious in retrospect. Quinsberry is the halfling God of tradition and knowledge, there's a library dedicated to Him and offerings to Him include books. He's basically the equivalent to Verena's aspect as the Goddess of knowledge in the halfling pantheon, and when the option came to have our library be pious he was mentioned along with Verena, Hoeth and Valaya, so there should be no doubt that His cult will be a useful source of books.

As Marshal Titus Muggins told us, the purpose of the halfling expedition to Karak Eight Peaks was to put some of the halfling eggs in another basket. The expedition has certainly done this with the population of the Moot, and so we now offer the cult of Quinsberry the opportunity to do it with the knowledge of the Moot. If the Moot is lost in some disaster tomorrow some halflings will survive, yes, but think of all the knowledge and history and tradition that will be lost. We graciously offer the halflings a chance to have a copy of all of the significant works and records of the halflings safely stored within The Library of Karak-Eight-Peaks, and in return we ask for a copy of all of their insignificant works as well. And also they may copy our books too I guess.

Now if you pay close attention you'll notice that the deal is that we get books, and in return we agree to get even more books. Pretty good deal, if you ask me. And I think the cult of Quinsberry will be inclined to agree.
 
[X] Plan: Jyn: let talk to people
-[X] MAX: Learn to pilot the Gyrocopter along with Mathilde
-[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Gryphon Wood with one or more members of WEB-MAT (Johann and Egrimm)
-[X] MAX: Receive dictation: The Black Orc Warboss' worship of Only Gork, and what you saw of the Rogue Idol ritual (FADED)
-[X] Attempt to bring a Major House or Ward into the Waystone Project (Ward of the Frost)
-[X] Spend time assisting or ingratiating yourself with someone else: Have Lord Magister Krammovitch introduce you to the Hedgefolk of The Forest of Shadows to get your foot in the door.
-[X] Spend time assisting or ingratiating yourself with someone else: use the pretext of your recent interest in Hekarti to contact and get the feel of House Tindomiel
-[X] COIN: The Father
-[X] EIC: Have the Hochlander set up a shadow headquarters for the EIC in the Sunken Palace.
-[X] Seek an agreement with a Cult to have access to their libraries (Verenans)
-[X] Serenity: Observations of Johann's prosthetic arm (FRESH)

[X] Plan: Jyn+debt free
-[X] MAX: Learning: How to fly a Gyrocopter
-[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Alric with Johann
-[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Gryphon Wood with Johann and Egrimm
-[X] Attempt to bring a Major House or Ward into the Waystone Project (Ward of the Frost)
-[X] Spend time assisting or ingratiating yourself with someone else: Have Lord Magister Krammovitch introduce you to the Hedgefolk of The Forest of Shadows to get your foot in the door.
-[X] COIN: The Father
-[X] EIC: Have the Hochlander set up a shadow headquarters for the EIC in the Sunken Palace.
-[X] Seek an agreement with a Cult to have access to their libraries (Verenans)
-[X] Write a paper: Observations of Johann's prosthetic arm (FRESH)

[X] Plan: Jyn+Lay the foundations
-[x] WEB-MAT: Investigate Gryphon Wood with one or more members of WEB-MAT (Johann and Egrimm)
-[x] Attempt to bring a Major House or Ward into the Waystone Project (Ward of the Frost)
-[x] Spend time assisting or ingratiating yourself with someone else: Have Lord Magister Krammovitch introduce you to the Hedgefolk of The Forest of Shadows to get your foot in the door.
-[x] Lay the foundations: work with the current members of WEB-MAT and the Waystone Project to build a single unified framework for understanding the Waystones.
--[x] The Gambler
-[x] Personally scrutinize a Waystone as thoroughly as you possibly can.
-[x] EIC: Have the Hochlander set up a shadow headquarters for the EIC in the Sunken Palace.
-[x] Seek an agreement with a Cult to have access to their libraries (Verenans)
-[x] Write a paper: Observations of Johann's prosthetic arm (FRESH)
 
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[X] Plan Allies and Favours
-[X] MAX: Study an artefact: (Books and rubbings from an Asur explorer of Lustria and the Southlands)
-[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Gryphon Wood with one or more members of WEB-MAT (JOHANN)
-[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Alric with one or more members of WEB-MAT (EGRIMM)
-[X] Explore one of the Wards of Laurelorn (Frost)
-[X] Attempt to bring a non-Order magical tradition into the Waystone Project (Nordlander Hedgewise)
-[X] Attempt to bring a Major House or Ward into the Waystone Project (House Tindomiel)
-[X] EIC: Have the Hochlander set up a shadow headquarters for the EIC in the Sunken Palace.
-[X] Seek the publishing contacts to start acquiring large amounts of books from a nearby realm (Bretonnia)
-[X] Write a paper: Observations of Johann's prosthetic arm
-[X] The Father
 
[X] Plan Starting up debt free, with Webmat field trip
-[X] MAX: Learning: Gyrocopter lessons from Prince Gotri's pilots.
-[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Alric with one or more members of WEB-MAT (Egrimm) (NEW)
-[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Gryphon Wood with one or more members of WEB-MAT (Johann, Egrimm, Max) (NEW)
-[X] Personally scrutinize a Waystone as thoroughly as you possibly can.
-[X] Lay the foundations: work with the current members of WEB-MAT and the Waystone Project to build a single unified framework for understanding the Waystones.
-[X] Attempt to bring a Major House or Ward into the Waystone Project (Frost)
-[X] Serenity: Observations of Johann's prosthetic arm (FRESH)
-[X] EIC: Investigate what trade goods the Eonir might be willing to import from the Empire. (NEW)
-[X] Seek the publishing contacts to start acquiring large amounts of books from a nearby realm (Bretonnia)
-[X] The Protector

[X] Plan Starting up debt free
-[X] MAX: Learning: Rituals from the colleges. Mathilde pays
-[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Alric with one or more members of WEB-MAT (Egrimm) (NEW)
-[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Gryphon Wood with one or more members of WEB-MAT (Johann) (NEW)
-[X] Personally scrutinize a Waystone as thoroughly as you possibly can.
-[X] Lay the foundations: work with the current members of WEB-MAT and the Waystone Project to build a single unified framework for understanding the Waystones.
--[X] The Gambler
-[X] Attempt to bring a Major House or Ward into the Waystone Project (Frost)
-[X] Serenity: Observations of Johann's prosthetic arm (FRESH)
-[X] EIC: Investigate what trade goods the Eonir might be willing to import from the Empire. (NEW)
-[X] Seek the publishing contacts to start acquiring large amounts of books from a nearby realm (Bretonnia)
-[X] The Gambler

[X] Plan Compromise
 
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[X] Plan Adventure Time
-[X] MAX: Learning: How to fly a Gyrocopter
-[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Alric with Johann and Egrimm
-[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Gryphon Wood with Johann, Max, and Egrimm
-[X] Attempt to bring a Major House or Ward into the Waystone Project: The Ward of Frost.
-[X] Attempt to bring a non-Order magical tradition into the Waystone Project: Ice Witches
-[X] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them.
-[X] COIN: The Night Prowler
-[X] EIC: Try to uncover what's going on in Gryphon's Wood.
-[X] LIBRARY: Seek an agreement with a Cult to have access to their libraries (Quinsberry)
-[X] SERENITY: Write a paper: Windsoak Mushrooms book 1/2

[X] Plan Adventure Time w/Arm
-[X] MAX: Learning: How to fly a Gyrocopter
-[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Alric with Johann and Egrimm
-[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Gryphon Wood with Johann, Max, and Egrimm
-[X] Attempt to bring a Major House or Ward into the Waystone Project: The Ward of Frost.
-[X] Attempt to bring a non-Order magical tradition into the Waystone Project: Ice Witches
-[X] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them.
-[X] COIN: The Night Prowler
-[X] EIC: Try to uncover what's going on in Gryphon's Wood.
-[X] LIBRARY: Seek an agreement with a Cult to have access to their libraries (Quinsberry)
-[X] SERENITY: Observations of Johann's prosthetic arm (FRESH)
Reasoning:
I'm open to hiring Adela for the Gyrocopter, but I like having both Max and Mathilde being able to fly, so the WEB-MAT action has more potential and flexibility, and I don't see any of the current magical artifacts or papers as pressing enough to take precedence over the Gyrocopter.

As per the plan name, I want to take both investigation actions this turn, and I don't see a reason not to bring along larger parties for both. This distribution has us giving 2 AP's worth of assignments to each WEB-MAT member.

Cadaeth was the one who pitched the project to us, and if we want to work with her, then we need the Ward of Frost.

Kislev was much more enthusiastic about the project than any of the others, so I want to bring them in over the others. For Father-coin candidates, we should try to bring
them in all at once.

Branarhune because it's the token one non-job related action, and because it fits with the adventure time theme!

Night Prowler for Alric, whose Hysh might otherwise no-sell a lot of Mathilde's traditional stealth tricks.

I don't have a strong opinion on the rest, and they're open to change.

Edit: Swapped out Verena for Quinsberry.
 
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Derpmind said:
I'll admit I'm not on top of which Elf deity is which, but I'm going by @picklepikkl's reasoning for his Library vote here:
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The victorious asks for books on Hekarti and Loec. My preference would have been asking for books on Hekarti and Hoeth, but I was approval voting on the former since at least we get books on Hekarti and Loec books is something I do want eventually.

Hekarti is the goddess of magic in it's raw and natural form. That includes dark magic (which her dark elf worshippers emphasize), but also other worldly magic like the eight winds. She is the patron of the least racist of the more magical Elven Houses in Laurelorn.

Loec is the god of trickery, dance, partying and joy. More interesting to us though is that Deathfang looked at Mathilde with what is very likely great magic sight and identified her as a Loec worshipper. There might also be other overlap with Ranald that doesn't come to mind right now.

Hoeth is the god of knowledge and scholarly pursuits. He is the patron of most High Elf mages (whose central base is the Tower of Hoeth). Two of the three magic focused Houses in Laurelorn have him as patron.
Boney said:
which would be best represented with the title Doulos.
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"Slave" is an official Magister title for right hand trouble shooters in the Light Order? Hot damn...

Or would that just be Egrimm using Classical to "subtly" gripe?
 
[x] Plan: Hugo Bann is the man.
-[x] MAX: Learning: Powerstone creation with Mathilde
-[x] EGRIMM: Attempt a Windherder enchantment with Egrimm: Ring of Sudden Dawn
-[x] WEB-MAT: Attempt to recruit someone to WEB-MAT: Hugo Bann
-[x] Explore one of the Wards of Laurelorn: Frost
-[x] Experiment with integrating the Vitae into enchantment
-[x] Investigate Alric - The Night Prowler
-[x] Seek an agreement with a Cult to have access to their libraries: Quinsberry
-[x] EIC: Try to uncover what's going on in Gryphon's Wood.
-[x] Write a paper: Observations of Johann's prosthetic arm (FRESH)

Obligatory try to recruit Hugo plan.

Edit:
[X] Plan Compromise
 
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@Boney I just recalled something but I do not know how far it goes. We were able to get Bretonian books though Barak Var, does that stretch as far as we reasonably can with publicly available books or would sending scouts into Bretonia count for a lot more? For instance we do have Bretonian books on the Karaz Ankor and anatomy, but only up to extensive, is that the limit of public books or can we go higher at the source?
 
DragonParadox said:
@Boney I just recalled something but I do not know how far it goes. We were able to get Bretonian books though Barak Var, does that stretch as far as we reasonably can with publicly available books or would sending scouts into Bretonia count for a lot more? For instance we do have Bretonian books on the Karaz Ankor and anatomy, but only up to extensive, is that the limit of public books or can we go higher at the source?
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If you had contacts in Bretonnia you could go higher, how high would depend on how it went.
 
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