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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Aule said:
Heh. Shouldn't he have been the Mors leader in K8P at the time of our expedition?

I think I recall Boney's aversion to ignoble offscreen deaths, but if it doesn't apply here he was probably chewed by Cython during his rampage, eh?
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Sleek might have had an awesome last stand, but Mathilde was not privy to it. Mathilde is the POV character, and Boney very, very rarely shifts POV (I can think of four instances off the top of my head, Belegar, Francesco very briefly, Kragg and Baronet Willus). Boney never shifts POV to the villain either as far as I remember.

Boney mentioned that he disliked End Times' ignoble offscreen deaths, not that he disliked offscreen deaths in general. In End Times, they had the freedom to choose any POV they wanted, and they still offscreened several important and interesting character.
 
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Codex said:
Sleek might have had an awesome last stand, but Mathilde was not privy to it. Mathilde is the POV character, and Boney very, very rarely shifts POV (I can think of four instances off the top of my head, Belegar, Francesco very briefly, Kragg and Baronet Willus). Boney never shifts POV to the villain either as far as I remember.

Boney mentioned that he disliked End Times' ignoble offscreen deaths, not that he disliked offscreen deaths in general. In End Times, they had the freedom to choose any POV they wanted, and they still offscreened several important and interesting character.
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Also Vlag interlude, but I see your point.

That said, we did capture a lot of documents and correspondence from Skaven in K8P. I wonder if it contained names of their leaders. Never came up during the campaign, wasn't important after, but perhaps @Boney would confirm it?
 
Aule said:
Also Vlag interlude, but I see your point.

That said, we did capture a lot of documents and correspondence from Skaven in K8P. I wonder if it contained names of their leaders. Never came up during the campaign, wasn't important after, but perhaps @Boney would confirm it?
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If your question is if it was Sleek leading Mors, then that's answered in the text:
Boney said:
"Silence!" growled a Fangleader, and though all obeyed, the tension in the atmosphere rose even further; and with Skaven, it was no mere metaphor, and the sharp nose of a cunning leader could measure the mood of their underlings. "Beard-things are Beard-things," he says, his voice becoming wheedling. "They attack from front, always. Above, ready for Eshin, ready for Skryre. Now, we ready for Beard-things. Many messages sent to Warlord Sleek. We hold them off, Warlord Sleek returns, they are caught-trapped between us. We feed on them tonight."
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Boney said:
It's difficult to label either side a winner under the circumstances, but Clan Eshin seems to have been on the verge of eking out an extremely costly victory before being interrupted. You estimate both remaining forces in the low thousands, but those that remain are still formidable. Circling around Warlord Sleek with extreme paranoia are a battalion of extremely muscled Albino Stormvermin,
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One from the perspective of a Skaven and one from Mathilde's perspective.

And oh, that's another instance of a POV shift, to an enemy no less. It was to send across the idea of how terrifying Mathilde was to them.
 
[X] Plan Measured Support
-[X] Lord Magister Egrimm van Horstmann (1 Favour)
-[X] Lady Magister Elrisse (2 Favours)
-[X] Investigate Alric (2 Favours)
-[X] Introduction to the Order of Guardians (1 Favour)
 
Codex said:
If your question is if it was Sleek leading Mors, then that's answered in the text:


One from the perspective of a Skaven and one from Mathilde's perspective.

And oh, that's another instance of a POV shift, to an enemy no less. It was to send across the idea of how terrifying Mathilde was to them.
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Huh. Missed that. That means he was still alive when we interrupted the dragon's rampage and he had a fairly decent chance of escaping.
 
[X] Plan Measured Support
-[X] Lord Magister Egrimm van Horstmann (1 Favour)
-[X] Lady Magister Elrisse (2 Favours)
-[X] Investigate Alric (2 Favours)
-[X] Introduction to the Order of Guardians (1 Favour)

As promised, this has my support.
 
Aule said:
Huh. Missed that. That means he was still alive when we interrupted the dragon's rampage and he had a fairly decent chance of escaping.
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Well, I mean, this happened right after we spoke to Cython:
Boney said:
[State of the Battlefield, Eshin: 87.]
[State of the Battlefield, Mors: 1.]
[State of the Battlefield, Dragon: 50.]
[Hunting and being hunted: Intrigue, 96+22+5(Tactics: Skaven)+10(Windsage)=133 vs 68+???-10(Unaware)=???.]

You had estimated perhaps an hour left in this final desperate duel, but either you erred greatly or things went sideways in an incredible fashion the moment you took your eyes off the Skaven, because the remains of what looks like at least half of the Albino Stormvermin battalion are scattered throughout about a quarter of the Under-Karag, some half-eaten and some still sizzling as Eshin poisons burn their way through flesh. Some of those poisons are chemical in nature, while some have already begun to break down into the Dhar they were created from. Through this grim spoor you track your quarry, cloaked in as little Ulgu as possible to keep your Magesight clear. The Eshin blend of Dhar and Ulgu leaves a distinct tang in the air, but between Dhar dissolving and Ulgu dissipating it's hard to extract more information than 'he was here'. Hard, but not impossible. Not for you.
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He was protected by a battallion of Stormvermin, and at least half were eviscerated and scattered around the mountain when Mathilde was explicitly trying not to get caught up in the fight. The half eaten and sizzling seems to imply both Eshin and Cython were ganging up on them, and the Mors base was completely destroyed by the Dwarves and occupied so he couldn't have escaped there. Mathilde had an army everywhere except Karag Yar, and Eshin were the only ones to escape Yar with a Warp Drill. Any leftover Mors would have been wiped out.

I have very little belief that he somehow managed to survive. Clan Mors in K8P were completely destroyed. The only parts of Clan Mors that still survive would be ones outside K8P, and even those would be flimsy because they're being hunted down by other Skaven and their main base was in K8P. They're done, likely to be consumed by some other Warlord clan, and Sleek is most likely dead.
 
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[X] Plan Measured Support

[X] Plan Egrimm Sus
-[X] Magister Egrimm van Horstmann (free)
-[X] Lady Magister Elrisse (2 Favours)
-[X] Investigate Alric (2 Favours)
 
Codex said:
The half eaten and sizzling seems to imply both Eshin and Cython were ganging up on them
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I disagree. Skaven eat their opponents mid-battle, and Eshin use acids and warpstone poisons to "sizzling" makes sense there too.
I think there's zero implication Cython ganged up with any Skaven, and I'd be surprised if he even entertained the possibility. I didn't get the sense that "unnoficially allying with mortals against a shared threat" was something Cython did, really. Remember when Mathilde asked for help against the orcs that were coming for Cython?
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
I disagree. Skaven eat their opponents mid-battle, and Eshin use acids and warpstone poisons to "sizzling" makes sense there too.
I think there's zero implication Cython ganged up with any Skaven, and I'd be surprised if he even entertained the possibility. I didn't get the sense that "unnoficially allying with mortals against a shared threat" was something Cython did, really. Remember when Mathilde asked for help against the orcs that were coming for Cython?
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Clan Eshin are highly disciplined, but ok, let's assume they ate the corpses of their opponents, despite the fact that it would mean they'd break formation (something Clan Eshin Assassins would not tolerate, but they're hungry I guess). I think you underestimate the power of logic.

Cython decided to stop attacking at some point, letting Eshin go instead of pursuing them. We explicitly know that Cython, for whatever reason, didn't wipe out Clan Eshin because they managed to escape. That means Cython, at some point, thought it was too much trouble and they should fall back. If Cython is capable of restraining themselves to think of that, then they can see that Clan Mors is weakened and that's an opportunity worth taking. I don't think Cython was cooperating with Clan Eshin per se, more that they are capable of working on cold logic even when enraged, as they've demonstrated, and that they can see a good target when they see one.

I also assume that Clan Eshin were smart enough to stay out of Cython's way, and Cython couldn't disengage from Mors to attack Eshin who are in a much better spot (they rolled 84, Cython rolled 50, this is how I think it could have been represented).
 
[X] Plan Above The Politics
-[X] Lord Magister Egrimm van Horstmann (1 Favour)
-[X] Permanent access to KAU (1 Favour)

I think the whole Alric subplot might be distracting us from our current duties. Let's free Horstmann in case Alric makes a comeback and avoid more entanglement in college politics. As a Lord Magister officially assigned to the project Horstmann probably will have access to most of the infomation the Light college is willing to make available anyway.
 
[X] Plan Measured Support
-[X] Lord Magister Egrimm van Horstmann (1 Favour)
-[X] Lady Magister Elrisse (2 Favours)
-[X] Investigate Alric (2 Favours)
-[X] Introduction to the Order of Guardians (1 Favour)
 
Codex said:
Well, I mean, this happened right after we spoke to Cython:

He was protected by a battallion of Stormvermin, and at least half were eviscerated and scattered around the mountain when Mathilde was explicitly trying not to get caught up in the fight. The half eaten and sizzling seems to imply both Eshin and Cython were ganging up on them, and the Mors base was completely destroyed by the Dwarves and occupied so he couldn't have escaped there. Mathilde had an army everywhere except Karag Yar, and Eshin were the only ones to escape Yar with a Warp Drill. Any leftover Mors would have been wiped out.

I have very little belief that he somehow managed to survive. Clan Mors in K8P were completely destroyed. The only parts of Clan Mors that still survive would be ones outside K8P, and even those would be flimsy because they're being hunted down by other Skaven and their main base was in K8P. They're done, likely to be consumed by some other Warlord clan, and Sleek is most likely dead.
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Reasonable, but I think you are missing this:

Boney said:
The dragon is certainly formidable, but it is also very, very large, which limits where it can go. Clan Mors and Clan Eshin would easily be able to reach this conclusion and work around it to finish their fight to the death.
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Which sounds exactly like what happened. And since it doesn't mention his, well, body found, it's not unreasonable that he escaped, sacrificing half his guard. Clan Mors here is definitely done, but a small party of elites could have escaped. Or maybe it hasn't. Who knows?
 
Aule said:
Reasonable, but I think you are missing this:



Which sounds exactly like what happened. And since it doesn't mention his, well, body found, it's not unreasonable that he escaped, sacrificing half his guard. Clan Mors here is definitely done, but a small party of elites could have escaped. Or maybe it hasn't. Who knows?
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Was that before we knew the level of space warping we now know hysh is capable of?
 
Codex said:
Clan Eshin are highly disciplined, but ok, let's assume they ate the corpses of their opponents, despite the fact that it would mean they'd break formation (something Clan Eshin Assassins would not tolerate, but they're hungry I guess). I think you underestimate the power of logic.

Cython decided to stop attacking at some point, letting Eshin go instead of pursuing them. We explicitly know that Cython, for whatever reason, didn't wipe out Clan Eshin because they managed to escape. That means Cython, at some point, thought it was too much trouble and they should fall back. If Cython is capable of restraining themselves to think of that, then they can see that Clan Mors is weakened and that's an opportunity worth taking. I don't think Cython was cooperating with Clan Eshin per se, more that they are capable of working on cold logic even when enraged, as they've demonstrated, and that they can see a good target when they see one.

I also assume that Clan Eshin were smart enough to stay out of Cython's way, and Cython couldn't disengage from Mors to attack Eshin who are in a much better spot (they rolled 84, Cython rolled 50, this is how I think it could have been represented).
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1: The Skaven were eating their own dead in that battle. IIRC we explicitly saw them fallen prey to the Black Hunger when they both broke
2: Cython later fails the "basic logic" you describe when the orcs arrive.
3: Your logic relies on the premise that Cython considers the rats a threat. Do you have a evidence of that? I think he considers them pests, beneath him.
 
Codex said:
Clan Eshin are highly disciplined, but ok, let's assume they ate the corpses of their opponents, despite the fact that it would mean they'd break formation (something Clan Eshin Assassins would not tolerate, but they're hungry I guess).
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Skaven physiology has a supercharged adrenaline spike during battle that burns through the energy reserves of a Skaven's body so rapidly and thoroughly that they can drop dead if they don't eat immediately afterwards. This is known to Skaven as 'the Black Hunger', and the height of Skaven discipline is waiting until the battle is actually over to start eating.
 
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Even if Sleek has managed to escape the battle he'd still have to make his way to the nearest Mors outpost then somehow not get killed by the other Mors leaders and even then he's not going to have access to concoctions to prolong his life so he won't be able to rebuild enough force to take another stab at K8P.

Unfortunately even if we would want to add more notable Skaven to our Skaven prisoner collection we've missed the chance with Sleek (or even other notable Mors figures considering dwarfs don't really make particular efforts to take Skaven prisoners; dwarfs prefer to hoard gold or occasionally secrets).

We could try nabbing an Assassin or Warlock Engineer in the future though.
 
Posting @picklepikkl's plan for him.

[X] Plan Ritual Support
-[X] Lord Magister Egrimm van Horstmann (1 Favour)
-[X] Choirmaster Stephen (2 Favours)
-[X] Investigate Alric (2 Favours)
-[X] Introduction to the Order of Guardians (1 Favour)

Measured Support is nice and all, but I think the alternative to Elrisse deserves more consideration.

Boney said:
Skaven physiology has a supercharged adrenaline spike during battle that burns through the energy reserves of a Skaven's body so rapidly and thoroughly that they can drop dead if they don't eat immediately afterwards. This is known to Skaven as 'the Black Hunger', and the height of Skaven discipline is waiting until the battle is actually over to start eating.
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Wouldn't this make Skaven better front line combatants than Humans in short battles? Or do they have other drawbacks that balance it out? IIRC they aren't usually smaller than a Human.
I ask because my impression from tabletop and other games was that a Clan Rat is a weaker unit than most standard Human soldiers. Though maybe I just got mislead by my own misconceptions, because I never actually compared any statlines.


Edit:

[X] Plan Steal His Credit, Take His Wizards
 
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Sparsebeard said:
[X] Plan Above The Politics
-[X] Lord Magister Egrimm van Horstmann (1 Favour)
-[X] Permanent access to KAU (1 Favour)

I think the whole Alric subplot might be distracting us from our current duties. Let's free Horstmann in case Alric makes a comeback and avoid more entanglement in college politics. As a Lord Magister officially assigned to the project Horstmann probably will have access to most of the infomation the Light college is willing to make available anyway.
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What makes you favor Permanent access to KAU over Introduction to the Order of Guardians?
Zero Gravitas said:
We could try nabbing an Assassin or Warlock Engineer in the future though.
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I think long term imprisoning a Dhar caster is too risky to be worth it. It's not as if we know for sure, IC or OOC, that Warlock-Engineers really can't cast anything dangerous when stripped of their equipment (some of which might require invasive surgery to strip).
 
Rafin said:
Wouldn't this make Skaven better front line combatants than Humans in short battles? Or do they have other drawbacks that balance it out? IIRC they aren't usually smaller than a Human.
I ask because my impression from tabletop and other games was that a Clan Rat is a weaker unit than most standard Human soldiers. Though maybe I just got mislead by my own misconceptions, because I never actually compared any statlines.
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In combat, the average Clanrat moves and reacts faster than a typical state trooper of the Empire while having about equal strength, toughness, and martial ability, despite being about a foot shorter and about a quarter lighter.
 
Codex said:
But these rituals also serve a dual purpose of drawing out controllable elements of Ghyran from the Leylines and allowing it to disperse throughout the surrounding countryside in a manner that encourages the healthy and abundant growth of plants."
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That single fact makes the Jade Order one of the most important College for the survival and growth of the Empire. A major cause of death in the past was famine caused by bad harvests, especially the fact that it weakened the immunity of everyone involved. Having a large-scale way to make sure the harvests are plentiful more often than normal is a huge boon, that impacts every aspects of the Empire.
More food means more people surviving for longer and having more kids survive, more soldiers, more people to settle new lands, more potential wizards, …
 
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