Lex Sedet In Vertice: A Supervillain in the DCU CK2 quest

Gumiho said:

Congradulations on the scholarship and getting into Law School.

Dat lab improvement section though, i find it super intimidating to go over.

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I honestly recommend using the inbuilt search tool (Ctrl+F) for finding a lab type you want and then building a budget around that, rather than trying to read every entry as there's a lot of repeated information in the equipment areas that you ought to skim through. I do have an idea for an edit that might help but the downside of giving a ton of options is that it inherently becomes harder to go through.

If you're into dark humor the Costume Creation subvote was initially even worse than that before I heavily retooled it. The specialized lab subvote only has about 585 entries beneath it. The Costume Creation subvote would've easily broken 3,000 entries

Edit: the change has been made to space out each lab a little bit. Does that help?

King crimson said:

[ ] [SCU] Replace all vehicles used by the SCU with Kryptonite powered ones where possible (7 points)
[ ] [SCU] Enable LexCorp to freely remove any evidence the SCU has from lock-up under the pretext of analysis (2 points

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These 2 are critical. I don't care for the rest even the Direct Oversight one if only to give the SCU a veneer of impartiality.

King crimson said:

[ ] [Demon] Meet with Talia al Ghul and Cassandra's biological mother to discuss Cassandra's development

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We should meet if only to be aware? Or no?

King crimson said:

[ ] [Brain] Refer the Brain to Wade Eiling if he wishes to strike a deal with the US government

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I'd like to not deal directly with supervillains and leave such things to the government. Unless Questors want to refer him to Waller just to see fireworks? If Waller is doing Cadmus, maybe they can grow Brain a new body or something?

Votes open folks

I dunno, I don't really see the need for Cass to take a costumed identity. She's a Luthor, she should be above that type of thing.

Lord Ultimus said:

I dunno, I don't really see the need for Cass to take a costumed identity. She's a Luthor, she should be above that type of thing.

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I had a bunch of costume ideas for Cass as leftovers from planning the "Titansverse omakes" and other non-canon stories. As such I included her in this subvote both to give people the option if they so chose to do so and to give some ideas to people of things they could put on other characters and just some general design ideas. Plus I figured you guys would rather have the option available and not want it than want the option but not have it available so it got included. In earlier drafts of that subvote I gave every character costume options regardless of whether or not the thread would likely act on that but it quickly wound up being overwhelming so I tried to simplify and streamline some stuff.

[ ] [Inch] Get no improvements to LexCorp tower's defenses but gain a large DC drop of 20 next turn

[ ] [SCU] Allow LexCorp to plant spyware in the SCU headquarters (30 points)
[ ] [SCU] Replace all vehicles used by the SCU with Kryptonite powered ones where possible (7 points)
[ ] [SCU] Enable LexCorp to freely remove any evidence the SCU has from lock-up under the pretext of analysis (2 points)

[ ] [Bill] Begin taxing superheroes and their merchandizing based on income from sales

[ ] [Bone] On-command growth (26 points)

[ ] [Freeze] Ease of constructions (3 points, can be taken repeatedly)
[ ] [Freeze] Ease of constructions (3 points, can be taken repeatedly)
[ ] [Freeze] Freeze grenade launcher (20 points)

[ ] [Brain] Refer the Brain to Wade Eiling if he wishes to strike a deal with the US government
[ ] [Brain] Refer the Brain to Amanda Waller if he wishes to strike a deal with the US government

These I would agree to. We still owe Diana for her Bill favour, what else did she want?

So this isn't really a solid threadmarkable post but I did kind of want to potentially jar some discussion regarding a few subjects that I've been thinking on as of late.

Firstly I find it kind of a shame that a lot of Deathstroke's really strong theming has been lost with time as people focused more and more on making him as cool and badass as possible. See Deathstroke's got a great thematic resonance with explorations of trauma and PTSD. The man is very literally a Vietnam war veteran who returned back home and found he couldn't adjust to living life as a civilian and his marriage and home life promptly self-destructed as a result of actions he took due to being unable to adjust back to being a civilian. His kids are all to some degree or another haunted by his actions (Grant died trying to be like him, Joseph tried to make up for his father's mistakes and then asked to die when he realized he was becoming like him and Rose very literally harmed herself trying to be more like her father on top of some other stuff). There's also a really great scene in one of the old Teen Titans comics where Beast Boy is planning on killing Deathstroke during a court hearing to avenge all of the things he did to Terra and the Titans only to be unable to go through with it when he sees Deathstroke on the stand without his costume and realizes he's just a human being and not this incredible demonic figure.

I enjoy Deathstroke as a badass and I think he's a great character but I think a lot of comic book writers have kind of made the same mistake as Beast Boy in that comic and Deathstroke has slowly transitioned from having really strong theming regarding war damaging people long term to just another amoral mercenary who kills for money. I probably will be keeping some of the older characterization as I feel it's a solid thematic core for Deathstroke and it recontextualizes a lot of his actions in an interesting and engaging way that separates him from a lot of other supervillains.

Speaking of general theming I figured I'd share some thoughts on Superman villains. I've mentioned before that of the DC trinity I think Superman best reflects the ideal of "Justice" and that all of his villains ought to in some way be thematically constructed around that. It is a simplification but I think it narratively conveys a solid core of the character.

Toyman is a thematic challenge to Superman because he represents a warped childish vision of justice. Toyman is fundamentally someone who refuses to grow up or take any responsibility for things or move on with his life. Because his father was imprisoned and he lost his childhood he takes out his anger on undeserving targets. Superman then interferes and Toyman instead goes on to blame Superman and attack him. Toyman views his actions as being just and justified in a childish sense because he feels he was wronged by them first and so his disproportionate responses are his own way of attempting to get justice. Naturally Superman is there to refute that.

Also low-key do people have thoughts about Maxima one way or another? I personally want to try and make use of her and I've got some ideas for characterization but she's a character I think could be updated and made interesting even though her initial motivation of "horny for Superman" isn't exactly all that great (being motivated to villainy by unrequited love on a hero that the character wants to love them can work like with Amora the Enchantress, Mad Hatter or Cupid but it generally needs a little extra to it for it to really work).

Lastly regarding the quest do people want me to do more posts about theoretical developments, scrapped plans, alternate universes and general explanations? Is there a topic people really want to see covered? I kind of want to write a post about "schools" of magic just so people have a bit of background knowledge about the setting at large.

Hm.

One way to make Maxima work better would be if they legitimately had a fling or something and then Maxima refused to get over it.

Who knows what Superman got up to while he was out in space for like six months?

I thought Maxima simply has a Man of Kleenex Woman of Steel problem?

No, Maxima's past is a lot more interesting than that, at least in the current wiki.

She left her betrothed Ultraa behind and he was equally superhumans as are most of her species, but she thought she could do better.

Honestly, I think Maxima is more interesting than most western male readers give her credit for - mostly because despite the initial 'horny for Superman' thing that people tend to reduce it to, she's a lot more clinical about going for Superman as opposed to a genuine romantic attachment and she has a hell of a lot better points than most acknowledge in her quest to have strong children.

For example, she oftentimes brings up that Superman and her are genetically compatible, that he can give her children that are super-powerful and that her powers will mix well with his own. A casual read takes that as a bald come-on, that her interest in him as a 'great warrior' is driven by the kind of romantic attraction most contemporary woman have towards a strong man. But if you consider that most places in the DC other than Earth are hilariously vulnerable to invasion and genocide, and that she is the oldest member of the royal family on her planet...

It would sure as hell be good for Almerac to have the strongest superpowered protectors possible when threats like Darkseid or Imperiex roll up. Of course while she is absent her planet ends up in all kinds of trouble, but it's arguable that if recruiting a powerful husband from Earth DID work and bring suitable power to Almerac's royal family, it would have been worth the risk.

The issue is that she doesn't much seem to count mere friendship a worthwhile alliance... With some justification. And of course, pride for sure.

If I were to characterize Maxima as any kind of justice, it'd be a more traditional feudal type for sure - but one not without it's points.

Negation said:

I thought Maxima simply has a Man of Kleenex Woman of Steel problem?

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Yeah, but first of all that's kind of a weird and skeezy motivation. And second of all, there are a lot of humanoid aliens out there who, if not as strong and durable as Superman, are at least within shouting distance. Superman is far too much of a weird unique snowflake of a being (what with Krypton getting blown up) for Maxima to be motivated only or even primarily by that.

drake_azathoth said:

No, Maxima's past is a lot more interesting than that, at least in the current wiki.

She left her betrothed Ultraa behind and he was equally superhumans as are most of her species, but she thought she could do better.

Honestly, I think Maxima is more interesting than most western male readers give her credit for - mostly because despite the initial 'horny for Superman' thing that people tend to reduce it to, she's a lot more clinical about going for Superman as opposed to a genuine romantic attachment and she has a hell of a lot better points than most acknowledge in her quest to have strong children.

For example, she oftentimes brings up that Superman and her are genetically compatible, that he can give her children that are super-powerful and that her powers will mix well with his own. A casual read takes that as a bald come-on, that her interest in him as a 'great warrior' is driven by the kind of romantic attraction most contemporary woman have towards a strong man. But if you consider that most places in the DC other than Earth are hilariously vulnerable to invasion and genocide, and that she is the oldest member of the royal family on her planet...

It would sure as hell be good for Almerac to have the strongest superpowered protectors possible when threats like Darkseid or Imperiex roll up. Of course while she is absent her planet ends up in all kinds of trouble, but it's arguable that if recruiting a powerful husband from Earth DID work, it would have been worth the risk. The issue is that she doesn't much seem to count mere friendship a worthwhile alliance... With some justification.

If I were to characterize Maxima as any kind of justice, it'd be a more traditional feudal type for sure - but one not without it's points.

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Yeah, I think this is a very insightful take.

It's not a kind of mindset that modern readers are really going to sympathize with and understand, but it's a very realistic character motivation. Maxima wants her family to continue to rule Almerac, and importantly to be able to prevent Almerac from being destroyed... And selectively breeding to ensure that her descendants are some of the strongest warriors in the universe is a pretty good way to accomplish that.

A male character with similar designs on Supergirl would be really fucking creepy, and such a take on Maxima is likewise damn creepy too if it's all about the superbabies and if she doesn't have genuine affection for him, mind you.

But it's a plausible motivation, even if a creepy one, and it has room for nuance if one is willing to explore it.

Simon_Jester said:

Yeah, but first of all that's kind of a weird and skeezy motivation. And second of all, there are a lot of humanoid aliens out there who, if not as strong and durable as Superman, are at least within shouting distance. Superman is far too much of a weird unique snowflake of a being (what with Krypton getting blown up) for Maxima to be motivated only or even primarily by that.

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She was interested in Lobo when he showed up though. She simply saw vids of Superman 1st.

Good to see the update, haven't been on much since my computer needs to be repaired and the parts are still stuck at the port. Writing this on my brother's computer.

So for the SCU I'd be good with these, and it leaves 10 points left over to lower the DC, willing to switch the spyware option for Bone Growth formula or lower the DC.
[ ] [SCU] Offer to cybernetically enhance interested officers of the SCU (9 points)
[ ] [SCU] Enable LexCorp to easily access any metahuman awaiting transfer to a prison (5 points)
[ ] [SCU] Allow LexCorp to plant spyware in the SCU headquarters (30 points)
[ ] [SCU] Replace all vehicles used by the SCU with Kryptonite powered ones where possible (7 points)
[ ] [SCU] Enable LexCorp to freely remove any evidence the SCU has from lock-up under the pretext of analysis (2 points)

Don't have anything for the bill, but I'm good with these for meeting with Talia
[ ] [Demon] Meet with Talia to discuss alien invasions, Count Vertigo's war and Superman
[ ] [Demon] Meet with Talia and Ra's al Ghul to discuss alien invasions, Atlantis and long term alliances
[ ] [Demon] Meet with Talia al Ghul and Silver Monkey to discuss Batman and his sidekicks

For General Richter I'd favor this option since it gives us a reason to start producing helicopters and maybe get Carol on another Plane action, cool off from all the fighting.
[ ] [Richter] Agree to create new combat capable aircraft or drones for General Richter in exchange for a lot of money and her tacit support in getting LexCorp more backing with the US military

For costumes the one I'd go with is
[ ] [Costume] Leonard Snart
- [ ] [Design] The Future is Cold (70 points)
Leonard is going to be in the middle of the fighting, giving him something effective in the coming battle and memorable when we use the footage for PR purposes. Or we could go with promoting a large amount of heroes with:
[ ] [Costume] Mari McCabe
- [ ] [Design] Armored Tiger (24 points)
[ ] [Costume] Leonard Snart
- [ ] [Design] Arctic Assault (27 points)
[ ] [Costume] Samuel Scudder
- [ ] [Design] Full-Mirror Suit (14 points)
[ ] [Costume] Caitlin Snow
- [ ] [Design] Open-Air Attire (2 points)
[ ] [Costume] Siobhan McDougal
- [ ] [Design] Ghostly Dress (1 point)
adds up to 68 points with 6 left over to lower the DC.

For the lab we could upgrade the vehicle lab or bone lab, or put points to lowering the DC for Pharmaceuticals. If we want to go with the combat planes deal with General Richter and improving our space capabilities I'd go with the vehicle lab.

Not too sure on computers, though two plans I've got are
[ ] [Comp] Improved facial recognition and generation technology (6 points, can be taken repeatedly) X2
[ ] [Comp] Better processing (15 points, can be taken repeatedly)
[ ] [Comp] Improved data storage (8 points, can be taken repeatedly) X2
[ ] [Comp] Cloud computing (19 points)
[ ] [Comp] Improved arithmetic logic units (5 points, can be taken repeatedly) X2
[ ] [Comp] Improved anti-virus tech (15 points, can be taken repeatedly)
[ ] [Comp] Improved spyware bugs (12 points, can be taken repeatedly)
-99 points with one left over, three options are X2
or
[ ] [Comp] Improved facial recognition and generation technology (6 points, can be taken repeatedly)
[ ] [Comp] Better processing (15 points, can be taken repeatedly)
[ ] [Comp] Improved data storage (8 points, can be taken repeatedly)
[ ] [Comp] Cloud computing (19 points)
[ ] [Comp] DNA spectrography program (17 points)
[ ] [Comp] Improved arithmetic logic units (5 points, can be taken repeatedly)
[ ] [Comp] Improved anti-virus tech (15 points, can be taken repeatedly)
[ ] [Comp] Improved spyware bugs (12 points, can be taken repeatedly)
-97 points with three left over, and no repeats

For the bone formula we could go with
[ ] [Bone] Improved rate of regeneration (2 points, can be taken repeatedly)
[ ] [Bone] On-command growth (26 points)
[ ] [Bone] Reduced throat complications (1 point)

For freeze grenades I like @Negation's picks
[ ] [Freeze] Ease of constructions (3 points, can be taken repeatedly) X2
[ ] [Freeze] Freeze grenade launcher (20 points)

[ ] [Whale] Agree to not interfere in any capacity with Tobias Whale's criminal operations provided he does not become too publicly visible and he and his associates do not interfere with LexCorp business
-This is really the only option I'd go with, because eventually we're going to improve the police in Dakota City and if he's too big a target, we'll need to be publicly seen going after him similar to criminals in Metropolis. It would be odd if we ignore him when the rest of the local government wants all known criminals removed. We don't have to jump to have Whale killed and I don't want to trigger his blackmail backup, just leave him be if he stays under the radar.

So for the Brain, I'm going with this because it would be a good thing to have villains helping to fight off a threat to the planet, and its something we're trying to push for with rehabilitating villains in the bill (I'm oversimplifying it but I don't want to give the Brain a location connected to us, and I don't want to refuse to work with him entirely).
[ ] [Brain] Agree to help the Brain gain temporary amnesty and a reduction of sentence for him and the Brotherhood of Evil in exchange for his aid in dealing with an alien invasion.

OMG.
There is so much suff to do, but so little time.

HavocOrder0999 said:

For General Richter I'd favor this option since it gives us a reason to start producing helicopters and maybe get Carol on another Plane action, cool off from all the fighting.
[ ] [Richter] Agree to create new combat capable aircraft or drones for General Richter in exchange for a lot of money and her tacit support in getting LexCorp more backing with the US military

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[ ] [Richter] Provide General Richter with blizzard blanket drones in exchange for General Richter's meteorological data

I'd like to hire Weather Wizard and his brother next 2 turns so this would lower the DCs for weather control technology development.

Negation said:

She was interested in Lobo when he showed up though. She simply saw vids of Superman 1st.

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Yeah, pretty much this. People tend to see her going gaga over Superman and flirting with other superpowered men and judge by 20th century patriarchal standards and say "Haha, what a slut." But despite her eugenics plans, Maxima tends to own herself a lot better than most women in comics.

She does have standards if odd ones, she feels no need to justify her decisions, she is often willing to help native Earthers out for little real diplomatic benefit, and her typical offer of 'Hey why not come to my planet, be my royal consort, and have superbabies together' would be a perfectly sane and attractive proposition in a lot of places outside the United States superhero scene.

Negation said:

I thought Maxima simply has a Man of Kleenex Woman of Steel problem?

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History time!

Maxima like all comic characters has a lot of different characterizations over the years. Generally the throughline is that she's attracted to Superman and wants to marry him but there is nuance within that. Keep in mind that in the following descriptions I'm simplifying a fair bit for some of them.

Smallville plays her as almost delusional with her literally only knowing of Kryptonians from stories she heard as a little girl and becoming convinced that a random Kryptonian signal from earth was an invitation to marry one (who she didn't even know how he looked or what his name was) and then she became murderous towards Lois when she realized Superman was interested in her and not Maxima herself.

The DCAU makes her a lot more brash and childish where all she cares about is finding a mate equal to her in strength but at the same time has her focus on her goal make her easy to usurp. By the end of her episode she happily swaps out Superman for Lobo as her partner in a romantic/marital relationship. The issue of biological compatibility wasn't really presented in the episode itself and while it can be read into with knowledge of Maxima's focus on it in the comics, it's subtext at the absolute best.

New Earth comic book Maxima started off as wanting to marry Superman instead of her intended betrothed Ultraa and then got enraged when Superman rejected her. Maxima then served Brainiac a bit under coercion before turning on him and becoming a superhero. She tried to get other heroes who were powerful interested in her but got rejected again, attempted to get Superman to agree to marry her once more thinking being a superhero would make him interested in her (he rejected her again due to being married to Lois at this time) and as such she joined the Superman Revenge Squad and promised to bring war to Superman. She then teamed up with Darkseid's son Grayven for a bit before fighting in the Imperiax war and ultimately biting it at the hands of Brainiac 13.

Prime Earth Maxima is terribly written and honestly next to no elements of that depiction of the character will come into play. There are ways to write a lesbian woman rebelling against an oppressive society that seeks to force her to conform to a traditional gender role. Writing a story where the worldbuilding contradicts itself, the characters are all idiots whose actions directly go against their motives and which unintentionally implies that imperialism is a good thing and you should totally conquer people for their own good as they're too stupid and backwards to do what's right is not how you do that.

drake_azathoth said:

No, Maxima's past is a lot more interesting than that, at least in the current wiki.

She left her betrothed Ultraa behind and he was equally superhumans as are most of her species, but she thought she could do better.

Honestly, I think Maxima is more interesting than most western male readers give her credit for - mostly because despite the initial 'horny for Superman' thing that people tend to reduce it to, she's a lot more clinical about going for Superman as opposed to a genuine romantic attachment and she has a hell of a lot better points than most acknowledge in her quest to have strong children.

For example, she oftentimes brings up that Superman and her are genetically compatible, that he can give her children that are super-powerful and that her powers will mix well with his own. A casual read takes that as a bald come-on, that her interest in him as a 'great warrior' is driven by the kind of romantic attraction most contemporary woman have towards a strong man. But if you consider that most places in the DC other than Earth are hilariously vulnerable to invasion and genocide, and that she is the oldest member of the royal family on her planet...

It would sure as hell be good for Almerac to have the strongest superpowered protectors possible when threats like Darkseid or Imperiex roll up. Of course while she is absent her planet ends up in all kinds of trouble, but it's arguable that if recruiting a powerful husband from Earth DID work and bring suitable power to Almerac's royal family, it would have been worth the risk.

The issue is that she doesn't much seem to count mere friendship a worthwhile alliance... With some justification. And of course, pride for sure.

If I were to characterize Maxima as any kind of justice, it'd be a more traditional feudal type for sure - but one not without it's points.

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This is an interesting proposal and I do like it even if there would need to be some wrinkles added to it.

I think it's a good way to solidly ground and contextualize Maxima's fixation on marrying the strongest entity possible. If it's a political move to some extent then it makes sense why Maxima might go after Superman, a powerful entity with no political connections to other powers in space, as opposed to say Grayven or a Daxamite or Larfleeze since Superman is much more likely to let her keep Almerac both under her control and free of the authority of the other powers in space.

I'll be keeping this in mind going forwards, thank you for your contribution.

Plus I'm pretty sure Larfleeze would be a lousy lover.

Simon_Jester said:

Plus I'm pretty sure Larfleeze would be a lousy lover.

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He's all take, no give.

Some interesting options here so lets have a look

King crimson said:

Every Inch subvote

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I feel like this one is pretty obvious, we're about to deal with an alien invasion, reducing our defences in exchange for a very slight bonus once the invasion is over is just stupid

King crimson said:

SCU subvote

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What I'm thinking here is:

[ ] [SCU] Enable LexCorp to easily access any metahuman awaiting transfer to a prison (5 points)
[ ] [SCU] Replace all vehicles used by the SCU with Kryptonite powered ones where possible (7 points)
[ ] [SCU] Enable LexCorp to freely remove any evidence the SCU has from lock-up under the pretext of analysis (2 points)

And either [ ] [SCU] Recruit Lyle Beeder to LexCorp (43 points) or [ ] [SCU] Allow LexCorp to plant spyware in the SCU headquarters (30 points) and [ ] [SCU] Have the SCU provide LexCorp security with identical uniforms and false badges (13 points)

King crimson said:

Battle for the Bill subvote

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For this I'm thinking

[ ] [Bill] Make it so that only the DOMA can approve of a sponsor in order to be able to legally sponsor a superhero - 20
[ ] [Bill] Begin taxing superheroes and their merchandizing at a flat rate - 16
[ ] [Bill] Allow superpowered criminals amnesty for non-heinous crimes if they can find a sponsor willing to draft them as soldiers or superheroes, and pay an indemnity to clear their name to be paid to the victims families - 16
[ ] [Bill] Make it so that any costumed vigilante who operates without a sponsor is effectively treated as potential murderers and will be arrested on sight - 14
[ ] [Bill] Give the government oversight board the power to demand the identity of anyone operating as a superhero if given reason to suspect wrongdoing - 10
[ ] [Bill] Push for the Bill to be completed as fast as possible - 20

This way we fulfil our deal with Diana, the flat rate means its beneficial for heroes to associate themselves with larger brands like LexCorp, we push being able to recruit villains some more, we make it worse to break the law, we have an excuse to learn the identities of any heroes that do break it and get the bill done before it grows out of control

King crimson said:

Dealing with Demons subvote

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I think that this:

[ ] [Demon] Meet with Talia and Ra's al Ghul to discuss alien invasions, Atlantis and long term alliances

Is the best option, it covers the alien problem and everything else can be discussed as part of a theoretical alliance

King crimson said:

Meeting with Richter subvote

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This ones tricky but I'm going to go with:

[ ] [Richter] Agree to create a new airspace monitoring system in exchange for General Richter to provide you with exact monitoring on Superman when possible using this system

[ ] [Richter] Agree to create new combat capable aircraft or drones for General Richter in exchange for a lot of money and her tacit support in getting LexCorp more backing with the US military

[ ] [Richter] Provide General Richter with blizzard blanket drones in exchange for General Richter's meteorological data

[ ] [Richter] Agree to provide improved security for the US's supply of nuclear warheads in exchange for gaining access to these locations and facilities

My reasoning is that it's always good to have a way to track Superman, we're bound to make more planes/drones eventually anyway and the DC's are low, we already have the blizzard drones so that's easy and knowing where the nuclear arsenal is and having access to it opens some interesting possibilities

King crimson said:

Creating Costumes subvote

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The only people I'm really interested in here are Mari, Caitlin and maybe Siobhan

Though I do have to say @King crimson I'm somewhat disappointed in the options for Caitlin's outfit, two of them are pretty damn expensive, the ridiculously cheap one is kinda the worst of both worlds with it having no armour and Caitlin being uncomfortable with it and the middle option also being very expensive and literally described as her having multiple bombs strapped to her

Ideally I'd go with:

[ ] [Costume] Mari McCabe
- [ ] [Design] Armored Tiger (24 points)
The armored tiger costume is meant to be stylish and sleek whilst not compromising on fashion or appearance at all. The sentai-esque suit is a bit different from traditional superhero costumes but the orange and black skintight suit is armored in discreet locations and its tiger helm is stylized enough to look sleek and elegant as opposed to menacing. The suit does contain razor sharp claws and the armoring does make it more defensible so it can be used in combat fairly effectively despite its focus on fasion. The utility belt containing bolas, caltrops, first aid kits, a communicator, a flashlight and lockpicks only adds to the utility of this option.

[ ] [Costume] Caitlin Snow
- [ ] [Design] Cold Kryptonite suit (62 points)
The cold kryptonite suit is a compromise between power and comfort. Gauntlets, boots and a chest piece each with a kryptonite based heating system installed in them make up the bulk of costume and provide it with most of its weight. However Caitlin's head, shoulders and fingers are all exposed so that she may freely use her power and draw heat from the environment around her. This suit is essentially equivalent to walking around with multiple bombs strapped to her but one advantage it does have is that Caitlin can modify the energy being put into the kryptonite in her suit enabling her to ratchet up her power to be even more devastating for short periods of time. This costume is one Caitlin would be comfortable wearing and would let her effectively interact with others

[ ] [Costume] Siobhan McDougal
- [ ] [Design] Ghostly Dress (1 point)
This costume is designed to play into Siobhan's transformation and moniker. A tattered white dress isn't much of a costume but it helps to signal even harder that Silver Banshee is a ghost of some kind. Additionally it's easy to replace and while it doesn't offer defensive utility, being replaceable is something that meshes well with Siobhan's tendency to be able to shrug off otherwise fatal wounds and damage.

Though with the point limitation we'll probably have to go for one of the other Mari options, though I'd also kinda rather go for the more modern punk look for Siobhan than the ghost one

King crimson said:

Specialized lab subvote

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This one is tricky because 35 points isn't really enough to do anything major but I'm thinking either:

[ ] [Lab] Genetics (23 points)
-[ ] [Equipment] Automated assistance (12 points, can be taken repeatedly

or

[ ] [Lab] Bone Formula
-[ ] [Equipment] High powered computers (20 points)
-[ ] [Equipment] Extra experimental areas (10 points, can be taken repeatedly)
-[ ] [Equipment] More monitoring (4 points can be taken repeatedly)

Genetics would allow us to start at least making some progress on Cadmus , make future investments in it cheaper and help with Bone Formula at least somewhat I imagine or we could just go all in on Bone Formula

King crimson said:

Computer Creations subvote

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I have some thoughts on this but before I make a solid choice @King crimson could you explain what the DNA option means

King crimson said:

Bone formula subvote

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I feel like this is a pretty simple one:

[ ] [Bone] On-command growth (26 points)
[ ] [Bone] Reduced throat complications (1 point)

These should both increase the formulas viability a fair bit

King crimson said:

Freeze Grenade subvote

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For this I'm thinking of going:

[ ] [Freeze] Bigger blast radius (9 points, can be taken repeatedly)
[ ] [Freeze] Ease of constructions (3 points, can be taken repeatedly)
[ ] [Freeze] Cluster grenade (13 points)

Which would let us make more grenades, with a larger blast radius and that launch their own smaller grenades

King crimson said:

Working with Whale subvote

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I think at most we should go for:

[ ] [Whale] Agree to not directly attack Tobias Whale's holdings if he agrees to never directly attack LexCorp's holdings

[ ] [Whale] Offer Whale money in exchange for information on the criminal elements in Dakota City

King crimson said:

Bargaining with the Brain subvote

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This is another tricky one but I think I have to go for:

[ ] [Brain] Agree to help the Brain gain temporary amnesty and a reduction of sentence for him and the Brotherhood of Evil in exchange for his aid in dealing with an alien invasion

We're already advocating for rehabilitation of villains and I don't the Brotherhood has done anything that bad, publicly, yet

Simon_Jester said:

Plus I'm pretty sure Larfleeze would be a lousy lover.

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Yeah but if your only qualification for marriage is that your partner be as powerful then he's great. Larfleeze is strong enough that he could conceivably fight 7000 or so Green Lanterns and win. Larfleeze already keeps one planet nigh untouchable and no one on Okaara even had to marry him for that level of protection.

jonasquinn said:

Though I do have to say @King crimson I'm somewhat disappointed in the options for Caitlin's outfit, two of them are pretty damn expensive, the ridiculously cheap one is kinda the worst of both worlds with it having no armour and Caitlin being uncomfortable with it and the middle option also being very expensive and literally described as her having multiple bombs strapped to her

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I would like to point out that Caitlin's kind of immune to heat based explosive which is what a Kryptonite bomb effectively is. Caitlin wouldn't get injured by the ensuing explosion but it is a downside.

Also I'd like to point out that if you are disappointed with the prebuilt outfits then you can write-in your own and I'll give it the appropriate point values. I even put in the subvote itself that write-ins were strongly suggested for that subvote. What I gave as the "default" options were more examples of stuff you could do and you could always play around with the costume design to get closer to what you want. Heck, you could even write-in a costume design for a character not listed amongst the default options.

There's a solution to this potential problem presented in the subvote itself. I'll even go as far as to say that in the little foreword before the update itself I presented the fact that the full use of that subvote is dependent on write-ins

jonasquinn said:

I'd also kinda rather go for the more modern punk look for Siobhan than the ghost one

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In an earlier draft of the subvote there was an option for Siobhan titled "Skulls, Spikes and Leather" that would have given Siobhan a spiked black leather jacket, motorcycle pants and studded fingerless gloves. The ensemble cost 1 point and was scrapped because it was functionally the same as the Ghostly Dress.

Write-ins are available for the subvote. If you want it write it in. Heck if you can think of a functional improvement to the costume then you can toss it in and see how many points that costs you and then make a decision. I will say that most aesthetic choices are identical in terms of point cost so you can go pretty wild on that front and write-in the look you really want.

jonasquinn said:

I have some thoughts on this but before I make a solid choice @King crimson could you explain what the DNA option means

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The DNA spectrography program is basically a computer program that analyzes the light passing through a strand of DNA in order to attempt to sequence it as best as possible. It's not perfect and there's room for error but it's an easy way of figuring out "this DNA is the same as this DNA" and "here's where the DNA is different" without running a complicated analysis or damaging the sample over much.

King crimson said:

The DNA spectrography program is basically a computer program that analyzes the light passing through a strand of DNA in order to attempt to sequence it as best as possible. It's not perfect and there's room for error but it's an easy way of figuring out "this DNA is the same as this DNA" and "here's where the DNA is different" without running a complicated analysis or damaging the sample over much.

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Nice. If we choose that, we can examine the Alien Spit sample we got.

[X] [Plan] Red as Blood and Cold as Ice
-[] [Inch] Get no improvements to LexCorp tower's defenses but gain a large DC drop of 20 next turn
-[] [SCU] Enable LexCorp to easily access any metahuman awaiting transfer to a prison (5 points)
-[] [SCU] Allow LexCorp to plant spyware in the SCU headquarters (30 points)
-[] [SCU] Create an informal system to allow LexCorp to post "bounties" for certain metahumans (21 points)
-[] [SCU] Replace all vehicles used by the SCU with Kryptonite powered ones where possible (7 points)
-[] [SCU] Enable LexCorp to freely remove any evidence the SCU has from lock-up under the pretext of analysis (2 points)
-[] [Bill] Make it so that only the DOMA can approve of a sponsor in order to be able to legally sponsor a superhero (20 points)
-[] [Bill] Push against giving the president any special powers regarding superhuman sponsorship (20 points)
-[] [Bill] Allow superpowered criminals amnesty for non-heinous crimes if they can find a sponsor willing to draft them as soldiers or superheroes, and pay an indemnity to clear their name to be paid to the victims families (20 points)
-[] [Bill] Make it so that any costumed vigilante who operates without a sponsor is effectively treated as potential murderers and will be arrested on sight (20 points)
-[] [Bill] Push for the Bill to be completed as fast as possible (10 points)
-[] [Bill] Begin taxing superheroes and their merchandizing at a flat rate (6 points)
-[] [Demon] Meet with Talia and Ra's al Ghul to discuss alien invasions, Atlantis and long term alliances
-[] [Richter] Agree to create new combat capable aircraft or drones for General Richter in exchange for a lot of money and her tacit support in getting LexCorp more backing with the US military
-[] [Richter] Provide General Richter with blizzard blanket drones in exchange for General Richter's meteorological data
-[] [Costume] Caitlin Snow
Caitlin's powers necessitate that any costume designed for her use must be built around interacting with her powers. This means that the costume must hold up under extreme cold and that there must be at least one place for her to vent and draw heat from. However with this complication also comes an opportunity to design a costume that Caitlin can make use of and would be easier for her to wear in her day to day life than what she currently has.
--[] [Design] Cold Kryptonite suit (62 points)
The cold kryptonite suit is a compromise between power and comfort. Gauntlets, boots and a chest piece each with a kryptonite based heating system installed in them make up the bulk of costume and provide it with most of its weight. However Caitlin's head, shoulders and fingers are all exposed so that she may freely use her power and draw heat from the environment around her. This suit is essentially equivalent to walking around with multiple bombs strapped to her but one advantage it does have is that Caitlin can modify the energy being put into the kryptonite in her suit enabling her to ratchet up her power to be even more devastating for short periods of time. This costume is one Caitlin would be comfortable wearing and would let her effectively interact with others
-[ ] [Costume] Siobhan McDougal
--[ ] [Design] Skulls, Spikes, Light Armor and Leather (5 points)
This costume is one which appeals more to Siobhan's usual aesthetic. The black leather jacket with silver spikes, motorcycle pants, lace up combat boots and studded black fingerless gloves give this a unique and striking silhouette. The more punk aesthetic naturally pairs well with Siobhan's skull like face as the Silver Banshee and gives her a distinctive style and appeal. It's unlikely to be everyone's favorite design but it's one Siobhan likes and it could find its own invested audience. The additional armored plates subtly woven into the jacket and pants do give this look a bit of defense even if Siobhan's powers would be doing the majority of the heavy lifting in a serious fight.
-[] [35 Points] Reduce the cost of Pharmaceutical Lab
-[] [Comp] Wetware computers (78 points)
-[] [Comp] DNA spectrography program (17 points)
-[] [Comp] Improved arithmetic logic units (5 points, can be taken repeatedly)
-[] [Bone] Increased blood cell production (28 points)
-[] [Bone] Reduced throat complications (1 point)
-[] [Freeze] More compact grenades (7 points, can be taken repeatedly)
-[] [Freeze] Ease of constructions (3 points, can be taken repeatedly)
-[] [Freeze] Easier to throw grenades (16 points, can be taken repeatedly
-[] [Whale] Agree to not directly attack Tobias Whale's holdings if he agrees to never directly attack LexCorp's holdings
-[] [Brain] Agree to help the Brain gain temporary amnesty and a reduction of sentence for him and the Brotherhood of Evil in exchange for his aid in dealing with an alien invasion.

[ ] [Inch] Get no improvements to LexCorp tower's defenses but gain a large DC drop of 20 next turn

Not worth the risk of temporary lowered defenses.

[ ] [SCU] Enable LexCorp to easily access any metahuman awaiting transfer to a prison (5 points)
[ ] [SCU] Allow LexCorp to plant spyware in the SCU headquarters (30 points)
[ ] [SCU] Create an informal system to allow LexCorp to post "bounties" for certain metahumans (21 points)
[ ] [SCU] Replace all vehicles used by the SCU with Kryptonite powered ones where possible (7 points)
[ ] [SCU] Enable LexCorp to freely remove any evidence the SCU has from lock-up under the pretext of analysis (2 points)

I think these are all relevant stuff that are fairly 'deniable' but help open us up for further control of the narrative where SCU is involved.

[ ] [Bill] Make it so that only the DOMA can approve of a sponsor in order to be able to legally sponsor a superhero (20 points)
[ ] [Bill] Push against giving the president any special powers regarding superhuman sponsorship (20 points)
[ ] [Bill] Allow superpowered criminals amnesty for non-heinous crimes if they can find a sponsor willing to draft them as soldiers or superheroes, and pay an indemnity to clear their name to be paid to the victims families (20 points)
[ ] [Bill] Make it so that any costumed vigilante who operates without a sponsor is effectively treated as potential murderers and will be arrested on sight (20 points)
[ ] [Bill] Push for the Bill to be completed as fast as possible (16 points)

I think these are what we want for the Bill. One big thing I think we should push for is to prevent the president from being able to sidestep the normal process, because we all know damn well that's ripe for abuse and Superman is bound to get an exception. Another is that we need to make sure the bill has some teeth in terms of dealing with vigilantes who operate without a sponsor.

[ ] [Demon] Meet with Talia and Ra's al Ghul to discuss alien invasions, Atlantis and long term alliances

Honestly, I don't anticipate any meeting with Lady Shiva to go well, so drawing attention to Cass by meeting her is counterproductive.

Meeting with Ra's al Ghul is something of a gamble, but despite the soured relations due to distrust earlier there's common goals.

[ ] [Richter] Agree to create new combat capable aircraft or drones for General Richter in exchange for a lot of money and her tacit support in getting LexCorp more backing with the US military

We want better drones anyway, and Brainiac tech is likely to make this easier, so it's a win.

[ ] [Costume] Caitlin Snow
Caitlin's powers necessitate that any costume designed for her use must be built around interacting with her powers. This means that the costume must hold up under extreme cold and that there must be at least one place for her to vent and draw heat from. However with this complication also comes an opportunity to design a costume that Caitlin can make use of and would be easier for her to wear in her day to day life than what she currently has.
- [ ] [Design] Cold Kryptonite suit (62 points)
The cold kryptonite suit is a compromise between power and comfort. Gauntlets, boots and a chest piece each with a kryptonite based heating system installed in them make up the bulk of costume and provide it with most of its weight. However Caitlin's head, shoulders and fingers are all exposed so that she may freely use her power and draw heat from the environment around her. This suit is essentially equivalent to walking around with multiple bombs strapped to her but one advantage it does have is that Caitlin can modify the energy being put into the kryptonite in her suit enabling her to ratchet up her power to be even more devastating for short periods of time. This costume is one Caitlin would be comfortable wearing and would let her effectively interact with others

This should do the job on making Caitlin a lot more comfortable, and while it offers some obvious risks, its also potentially makes her much more powerful for a small amount of time - not to mention deadly against Superman.

[ ] [35 Points] Reduce the cost of Pharmaceutical Lab

We need this to compete with Wayne and keep our heroes happy.

[ ] [Comp] Wetware computers (78 points)
[ ] [Comp] DNA spectrography program (17 points)
[ ] [Comp] Improved arithmetic logic units (5 points, can be taken repeatedly)

Wetware computers are literally revolutionary and offer us numerous opportunities to 'blackbox' against enemies like Brainiac or conventional hackers, they have tremendous potential for cybernetics, and they offer the chance to mix engineering and genetics in novel ways. Such as literally 'programming' an engineered organism's behavior. They are potentially more powerful and adaptable than conventional circuits. Very pricey, but worth the cost.

[ ] [Bone] Increased blood cell production (28 points)
[ ] [Bone] Reduced throat complications (1 point)

Increased blood cell production is one of those answers to a long litany of chronic and fatal diseases. Also a big potential performance booster that will allow for the strength and regeneration of the bone formula to hold up over time well.

[ ] [Freeze] More compact grenades (7 points, can be taken repeatedly)
[ ] [Freeze] Ease of constructions (3 points, can be taken repeatedly)
[ ] [Freeze] Easier to throw grenades (16 points, can be taken repeatedly)

Just makes the grenades more practical.

[ ] [Whale] Agree to not directly attack Tobias Whale's holdings if he agrees to never directly attack LexCorp's holdings

Simple for a start.

[ ] [Brain] Agree to help the Brain gain temporary amnesty and a reduction of sentence for him and the Brotherhood of Evil in exchange for his aid in dealing with an alien invasion.

Passing things off to Eiling will not help protect Lexcorp in particular nearly as well as pushing this in a more personal way.

We often worry about bad publicity. Like, A LOT. And with good reason, bad publicity for a businessman is a big problem. You know what else is a big problem? Fucking Brainiac trashing our supercomputer and leaving our businesses looted to smoking ruins! Unfortunately, our wonderful supercomputer and sizable piece of the computer and research market makes us a big fat target for Brainiac.

We may take a hit to our relations with a small part of the more idealistic government and public for this when he inevitably backslides, but the Brain is a TOP TIER mad scientist capable of COMPLETELY changing the context of a battle with Brainiac, and his assistance in defending Lexcorp and the U.S. could make or break things for us. Helping the Brain cut a deal is also a nice way to extend an olive branch to a powerful potential ally.

It's time to 'cash in' a bit of that reputation for tangible benefits. We can get away with this given our established reputation, and it's a game-changer.

@drake_azathoth I hate to be that guy but can you please switch your vote to plan format if you wish for it to be counted?

Additionally I noticed that there are no write-ins in your plan. I strongly recommend that the thread consider write-ins for at least some of the subvotes. The costume vote is one where I especially would encourage people to make use of the write-in system as that system is intended to work around it very heavily since write-in's give more flexibility and optimal results as opposed to me listing out hundreds of options and repeating things for each character or you picking one of the defaults I made as an example of a general design you could emulate.

King crimson said:

I would like to point out that Caitlin's kind of immune to heat based explosive which is what a Kryptonite bomb effectively is. Caitlin wouldn't get injured by the ensuing explosion but it is a downside.

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Yeah but she'd still be going around with several bloody bombs attached to her, regardless of is she's immune to them herself that kinda seems like a non-starter

King crimson said:

Also I'd like to point out that if you are disappointed with the prebuilt outfits then you can write-in your own and I'll give it the appropriate point values. I even put in the subvote itself that write-ins were strongly suggested for that subvote. What I gave as the "default" options were more examples of stuff you could do and you could always play around with the costume design to get closer to what you want. Heck, you could even write-in a costume design for a character not listed amongst the default options.

There's a solution to this potential problem presented in the subvote itself. I'll even go as far as to say that in the little foreword before the update itself I presented the fact that the full use of that subvote is dependent on write-ins

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I get that but I am not good at write-ins, especially ones that require fashion and scientific knowledge, and given that the examples we have to work with are an expensive clunky suit of armour, a suicide bombers wet dream that is almost as expensive and a cheap leotard I'm not exactly sure where to start

King crimson said:

In an earlier draft of the subvote there was an option for Siobhan titled "Skull's, Spikes and Leather" that would have given Siobhan a spiked black leather jacket, motorcycle pants and studded fingerless gloves. The ensemble cost 1 point and was scrapped because it was functionally the same as the Ghostly Dress.

Write-ins are available for the subvote. If you want it write it in. Heck if you can think of a functional improvement to the costume then you can toss it in and see how many points that costs you and then make a decision. I will say that most aesthetic choices are identical in terms of point cost so you can go pretty wild on that front and write-in the look you really want.

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Good to know, though it again runs into my poor write-in skills

King crimson said:

The DNA spectrography program is basically a computer program that analyzes the light passing through a strand of DNA in order to attempt to sequence it as best as possible. It's not perfect and there's room for error but it's an easy way of figuring out "this DNA is the same as this DNA" and "here's where the DNA is different" without running a complicated analysis or damaging the sample over much.

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That... just seems like a more complicated DNA test

drake_azathoth said:

I think these are what we want for the Bill. One big thing I think we should push for is to prevent the president from being able to sidestep the normal process, because we all know damn well that's ripe for abuse and Superman is bound to get an exception. Another is that we need to make sure the bill has some teeth in terms of dealing with vigilantes who operate without a sponsor.

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DOMA also wants to tax superheroes

drake_azathoth said:

Just the most bang for our buck as far as costumes are concerned. This seems to drastically enhance Leonard's abilities and we use him all the time for all kinds of Martial stuff or missions unlike Snow or Isley, so it's a win all around.

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Keep in mind that the main reason we took this option was to create something for Caitlin