- Location
- UK
How many times do we have to tell you, Omegahu-
Looks at name.
This is getting out of hand, now there are two of them!
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
How many times do we have to tell you, Omegahu-
Looks at name.
This is getting out of hand, now there are two of them!
Thebigpieman
I've got this, I think.
- Location
- United States
Now this is necro-shilling.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
We wouldn't. Using Dhar is no more warping than using Ulgu for Mathilde.
- Location
- Oklahoma
Even if we assume that the belt will continue to work if we go full necromancer (and there's been hints that it wouldn't) that's the far less important point than the bit where we lost all our friends and allies.
Like. That dramatis persona page? The vast majority of the people on there would now be justifiably trying to kill is. All our institutional backing would be not only gone, but reversed.
I think it's important to mention this kind of thing every once in a while.
EDIT: The hint I had in mind:
Like. That dramatis persona page? The vast majority of the people on there would now be justifiably trying to kill is. All our institutional backing would be not only gone, but reversed.
I think it's important to mention this kind of thing every once in a while.
EDIT: The hint I had in mind:
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Actually we have gotten no such hints. Plenty of orcs have brained dwarfs with stolen rune weapons bearing the Runes of the Ancestor Gods. They have no ability to turn off or otherwise influence their runes.
Not saying we should do necromancy, just wanted to point out how our stuff works.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
It's not how science works when applying the post enlightenment scientific method. But who is or isn't a crackpot isn't decided that way, especially not in the current Empire outside of the Colleges and maybe Nuln.
Sad? I guess I get how it's sad. From Omegahugger's perspective that is. All this power and talent, languishing on the sidelines nearly unused.
Well, if we ever get the chance I'm contractually obliged to vote in favor, since it brings us closer to Dum.
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The mindset required to use Dhar is not one that many people would describe as healthy, and people are entirely capable of going crazy even when they don't suffer from Dhar poisoning. Especially when they go against their core beliefs and earn the enmity of everyone they care about.
Runes in general, yes. The actual Ancestor Runes and their direct derivatives, that's not something that should be stated with anything like this level of confidence. Especially since Mathilde has had a direct personal experience with an Ancestor God watching over her shoulder when using His rune with the Eye of Gazul.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
I believe in the past you've directly stated that properly grounding Mathilde in her social connections with her friends would obviate much of those concerns. Obviously that doesn't work if we're full black magister and declared as such but I figured the scenario was going with a more subtle approach that hurl dhar around given what started this chain of conversation was talk about dhar ulgu tongs and how the belt could probably stop the majority of the environmental poisoning.
Actually thinking about it, in this scenario Mathilde would still be using Ulgu as her primary mindset with dhar being the intermediary so even less of a problem.
You really don't think Mathilde would suffer any negative psychological effects from knowingly crossing a line into performing an Abominable Act, secretly becoming Heretic and Traitor, and knowing that if anyone finds out extremely powerful people will do everything in their power to put her to sword and fire immediately?
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
The point is that "No, there's no 'Safe' way to use Black Magic, you don't get to cross the line and then pretend you're still a good person, and that can fuck you over more than anything else."
And at any rate, there's not really any point to it either. The only thing Black Magic can do is destroy and corrupt--it's telling that even the best possible interpretations are still "Detonate a nuclear weapon--but on top of bad guys". It's not desirable even if it solves your problem quickly.
The way forward is in Serial Enchantment and casting! We've proven that it's impossible to make Wind A manipulate Wind B, but we also learned that the specific circumstances in which a Wind of Magic collapses into Dhar (To wit, it's self-destruction brought on by the Wind panicking and shaking itself apart by being tangled up in another Wind or otherwise abused too much). In short, as long as the Winds are channeled such that the natural repulsion creates the desired effect--or alternately, that the desired effect simply involved the Winds being deployed sequentially--it should be safe.
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Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
There has never been just one Necromancy advocate.
Even at our lowest points, there were at least 3 of us! That means we're officially a crowd!
- Location
- England, unfortunately.
- Pronouns
- She/They
It doesn't count when you're raising up people to vote for you.
I do think that such effects wouldn't be big enough to be called "went crazy". No guarantees for going full necromancer, though, since it's hard to see any circumstances where necromancy is an option for Mathilde without her sanity already shot to hell.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
Oh please, if I had the power to raise dead accounts loyal to my will we would've broken double digits by no-Er, I mean, I would never do that, I'm patiently waiting for the rest of the thread to see the light and let Mathilde do what she should've done ten years ago.
Ganurath
Literal Enthusiast
- Location
- A Valid Location
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That's just overt supporters.
I would draw a distinction between going crazy and having went crazy. Obviously there's not really a likely scenario where a decision is made that immediately switches Mathilde to the other side of a sane/insane binary. But completely rejecting a core belief of every institution one has ever been a part of is the sort of thing that puts a person on a less than ideal mental trajectory.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
Or at the very least requires you to already be at a bad place mentally.
So the thread better take proper care of Mathilde's loved ones, or us Dhar enthusiasts will find a way to sneak past!
Clearly joining the Black College would've been a great move for Mathilde's sanity. It means there's always going to be at least one organization that approves of what she's doing!
NavySeel
"I don't know what I'm doing."
- Location
- Places
Mathilde:"I'll try raising the dead, that's a good trick."
You're dead wrong, it's a deadfull trick and really kills the mood. Don't bother, even if it's just to kill some time.
consequences
Not A Nice Person At All
- Location
- Jerkville
At last, the proper union of both uses of the term 'silent majority'.
If you don't like seeing debunked arguments in the thread, then stop making debunked arguments.
This is an urban legend started in 1970 to excuse people from responsibility when acting like greedy assholes. There is no such duty. Further reading on what duties DO exist: There Is No Effective Fiduciary Duty to Maximize Profits
TL
R the only real duties are1) Don't use company assets for personal gain at the expense of the company
2) Actually pay attention to your job (doing profitably at that job is not a duty; losing money doesn't violate this duty)
[x] - [x] The Golden Order
[x] - [x] The Order of Life
[x] - [X] Let Eike decide
[x] Magic-Dampening
- Location
- Belgrade, Serbia
My take on any kind of Dhar usage is that is is not worth it. Let us assume that there is a 'safe' way to do it with our knowledge and equipment. Let's even assume that it extends to all winds, not just Ulgu. A way to use it to just nuke the bad guys and nothing else. It would still be limited to us. It would be a work of generations to get something like that approved, if it ever could be. In that time we, and any potential successors of ours would either have to not use it, or do it in utmost secrecy, or risk undoing whatever progress was achieved and getting hunted down by all our allies. But let's say that it can be done. In a century the Empire officially approves of Magisters using whatever safe method of manipulating Dhar if they have the proper equipment. Which, as far as we know requires a Runelord on the level of Kragg to make. Still, it might be possible to do a lesser variant(just the Rune of Valaya's Vengeance) with lesser runesmiths. The Dwarfs are still not going to mass produce these. Each is going to have to be earned. All of this for, in my opinion, a marginal benefit. Having a safe way to use Dhar will provide some use for less nuke-capable winds, occasional power spike in dire situations and perhaps more potential for Dhar cleanup, but it is not free lunch. It would require a lot of time to train this new way of spellcasting, and it would almost certainly increase the attrition rate of young wizards as Dhar is a lot more volatile than normal winds. Then there is also the problem with having Dhar usage, in any way, considered acceptable. You would have a lot more random idiots trying it and failing/getting corrupted. And anyone actually trained would be a lot more dangerous if they go Black Magister(of their own free will, as it is known to happen occasionally) as they would already heve some knowledge of how to use Dhar.
On the other side we can spend that time developing new improvements to spellcasting, enchanting, rituals, or whatever else that is not forbidden on the pain of death. Any of these improvements can be shared with our College, incrementally improving the collective ability. So while we are in a unique situation where we might be able to develop a safe way to use Dhar, it is not actually worth it compared to other options available.
On the other side we can spend that time developing new improvements to spellcasting, enchanting, rituals, or whatever else that is not forbidden on the pain of death. Any of these improvements can be shared with our College, incrementally improving the collective ability. So while we are in a unique situation where we might be able to develop a safe way to use Dhar, it is not actually worth it compared to other options available.
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Basically, yeah, that's my feeling on the matter.
"The energy taken to somehow using Dark Magic 'Safely' could be better expended furthering the discipline of Color Magic to new heights."
After all, the Imperial Paradigm is still in its relative adolescence, and Boney's already said that it's begun to diverge from its Ulthuani origins and inspirations and becoming its own thing--something respectable in its own right rather than just "Shittier version of what the Elder Races can do". It just means that Humans handle Magic more like Dragons do, and I don't think anyone's going to say Dragons are shitty wizards just because they're also Kaiju sized super monsters!
Specialization isn't a weakness.
"The energy taken to somehow using Dark Magic 'Safely' could be better expended furthering the discipline of Color Magic to new heights."
After all, the Imperial Paradigm is still in its relative adolescence, and Boney's already said that it's begun to diverge from its Ulthuani origins and inspirations and becoming its own thing--something respectable in its own right rather than just "Shittier version of what the Elder Races can do". It just means that Humans handle Magic more like Dragons do, and I don't think anyone's going to say Dragons are shitty wizards just because they're also Kaiju sized super monsters!
Specialization isn't a weakness.
- Location
- England, unfortunately.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Even if they were borderline magically inert, they'd still be badass wizards on the basis of being Kaiju Sized super Monsters.
The fact that they can also be incredibly magically powerful is really just a T-Pose at that point.