Orc Quest; or, A Critical Examination of Agency Through in Interactive Fiction (Warcraft)

The thing is I'm pretty much unhappy with most of them :p

Yes including the one I presented (damn compromise plan being the popular one).

-[X] Lead
Accompany your warriors on patrol, or in other activities, rather than delegating this duty. Write in what you're doing unless it's just a patrol.
--[X] Captain
Grumble

Explore the wider area around the Manor with a decent chunk of the warband and look for threats to destroy. Not looking to make enemies, but kill feral undead, monsters, bandits, etc.
Not best pleased with this, not sure its a good idea to go looking for trouble so quickly without information. Might bring unwarranted heat down on our heads and we're not at peak condition etc.

-[X] Organisation
--[X] Captain
-[X] Lead
Grumble.

-[X] Speak to Vok'fon about his experiences as a leader
Considering changing, but not sure. If I had more AP I'd combine it with training tactics which does have more synergies.

Hesitant, on the one hand OOC we know the Scarlet crusade is doing something with the undead, but still, hardily the worst thing in the world.

However, my fears of spreading ourselves too thin (this applies to stretch our legs) still applies.

I'm happy to work out a compromise to the compromise if people are interested.
 
Vote closed
Scheduled vote count started by FractiousDay on May 8, 2021 at 3:05 PM, finished with 53 posts and 10 votes.
 
Still messy. I guess it's time for manual review... or splitting it into individual choices:
a plan vote is ignored if the same person also appears in individual choices elsewhere
+ if a person appears only in a plan, then their vote is added to the plan's choices.
 
Lordaeron Turn 1 Results
Lordaeron Turn 1 Results

[X] Plan do lead, restore the connection


You take a fairly conservative course of action over your first month in Tirasfal Glades, spending your time largely in contemplation, both of a spiritual manner and on more practical matters. The weather is unchanged, a little chilly but still the perpetual unsettled twilight, and your warriors go out into the woods to hunt prey and in turn make themselves at home in the manor. You're lucky that the land is sufficient for your needs as though animals are relatively scarce, they do exist and the woods are vast, rather than the strange mutated plants and undead wildlife which exist further east into the Plaguelands.

Meditation

You attempt meditation, seeking to clear your mind and begin to rebuild your connection to the Spirits, yet you find yourself distracted. You are in an unfamiliar place, a dangerous one and though you've found little but roaming undead so far which have occasionally wandered close to the Manor, you still feel uneasy. The wind whistles through broken boards and holes in the walls and you feel at all time suspicious and agitated. At one moment you'll hear what sounds like a groan or a scream and it'll remind you of the horrific faces trying to press their way out from beneath the Ur'zuhl's skin during the battle, or you'll hear once again the cracking of rock and stone under Forneus' fist when actually you know it's only the floors creaking under the unfamiliar tread of the Orcs. You try to keep to your thoughts but you're too preoccupied with the material work, even small matters like the furniture being too small for for the orcs around you and most of being broken up for firewood. You lie in an unusual bed, sit on strange chairs to take your food, look out through windows of glass over a landscape unknown to you.

Other changes have also been made. The manor is settled and fortified, windows newly rebarricaded with some nails found in the basement, leaving the place much more defensible, though the outbuildings are only explored briefly. Kartha informs you that there seem to have been signs of recent habitation in what seems to have once been a granary. Who exactly was there you don't know, nor, you reflect, does it really matter.

Tirasfal wasn't ever on the front lines of wars and you understand that the nobles of the area relied on some sort of elaborate tribute system that you don't really understand. You know what taxes are of course, you have a reasonable education regarding foreign lands and customs, but you can't really grasp why the serfs of Lordaeron would obey their masters. The peons of the Horde and the smallest orcs, the most cowardly or stupid, an underclass lacking in the will to live free and fight, yet they're cared for and supplied rather than sheared to the bone like a tabuk of Nagrand.

Before your mind wanders to the old stories, you bring yourself back to the present. Tirasfal hadn't seen war in a long time and that was plain enough in the architecture of Cold Hearth Manor, in the impressive but weak construction of the central manorhouse, in the lack of walls, even a palisade, and even in the contents of the manor. There were various rooms including a library of half-mouldered books and a display room of weapons and trophies of hunts, yet there was no armoury, no barracks, none of the spaces you'd have expected to see in an orcish fort.

The humans kept a large portion of their population subjugated in favour of investing effort and resources in a smaller portion, their knights. As you understood it this varied somewhat with different human kingdoms, but for the most part it was accurate. You made calculations mentally as you considered the matter. A single knight of Stormwind or Lordaeron would occupy a manor much like the one you sat in now, and there could only be so many of these manors in a kingdom. In turn each manor would have serfs and a dozen smaller villages around them, some of which you planned to visit soon. A rough estimate would put the number of people required to sustain a single knight and his armour at several hundred. Could magic or the technology of the dwarves and gnomes change this number? Possibly, but it remained that your own people could still put a significantly higher number of warriors in the field than the humans, which likely accounted for the Horde's early successes in the First War.

Only a knight, a professional, armoured warrior with the benefit of a mount, could really stand a chance against even the rudest grunt among the Orcs, let alone the more specialised warrior clans like the Warsong or the Blackrock. Your people (excepting you) were simply so much larger and more powerful that it would take a dozen humans to beat each one of your warriors. Yet in turn, the humans used their weakness as strength, standing together, creating great fortifications and cities the likes of which your people had never created. These same fortifications, as well as the significant power of the humans when roused to war and employing a greater fraction of their populations in warfare, had allowed the humans to win battles and wars after they grew accustomed to the Orcish tactics.

Was the answer then to have a more flexible society? Your people could hunt and fight, but that was about it, there were only a few clans specialised in other activities, notably the Blackrock with their forging and building, but the humans had far larger populations, as far as you're aware driven by their abilities in farming and trade. The mages of Dalaran in its prime were said to have ten thousand among their order, comparably you don't think there could have ever been more than a thousand shaman among the Orcish people, every clan included.

Was the solution then to simply have more Orcs? The most obviously question then became how these warriors were to be fed and provided for. A single Orc would eat in a sitting at least three times what a human would, and in turn an Orc would presumably need three times the territory of a human to sustain it. You own people the Burning Blade were a sort of Orcish knights you mused, investing the majority of the clan's resources in single exceptional fighters, would that then mean a single Orcish knight in the fashion of a human one would take almost a thousand humans to sustain him? Or were your calculations beginning to spiral out of control.

For now you let the matter drop. You've other matters to attend to and set out to visit Vok'fon instead.

Speak to Vok'fon about his experiences as a leader

You learn the Troll has been taught the human tongue by his father and you converse in it at his request rather than in the Orcish language so that he might reacquaint himself with the words. It's unusual to hear Vok'fon speak without an accent, though your ear is that of a foreigner and you certainly couldn't tell a Troll speaking in Tirassian rather than a man of Lordaeron. He still shortens certain words, unconsciously substituting them for certain words in Orcish, but it's a start.

"This isn't the first time I've led troops, but previously I've led only briefly and have little experience in such things. What advice do you have for me?"

Vok'fon considers your question, squatting on the ground in the fashion of his people at rest, pursing his lips around tusks as he considers your question, "Ya party en't like that I led." he replies, "Ya've been exiled, so was I to a'n extent, but like ya I did so willingly, and like ya I took support wit me. F'rty or so fightas joined me, and many more woulda support me when I went journeyin'. The Horde for the most part en't carin' about da Darkspear matters and I know ya people don't seem ta be careful a' caravans being attacked. I would say ma first piece of advice is abut da similarities between our people, a leader must bring victory."

You remain silent, letting him speak.

"Without victory morale drops like a stone in da water, without victory ya warriors will lose heart and even if dey're able to overcome da foe they'll weak. Dey'll turn away and return to their camps, they may even leave ya."

You speak more and Vok'fon relates more points regarding the qualities of a leader, speaking of his position as the director of the band, a figure ordering from the back and from camps, rather than riding into each battle. Vok'fon did after all take to banditry for political reasons, so it doesn't surprise you to learn he acted as more of a political leader than someone like Vark might have.

Meditation 2

You see to some of the minor things, but return to meditation following your discussion with Vok'fon. Did his specific advice apply in this instance? The Orcs of your warband don't really have anywhere to go so it's unlikely they'd desert in the manner Vok'fon suggests, but he's still correct that without victory the morale and cohesion of a force will decline.

Vok'fon led his warriors through charisma and vision. The Troll had a degree of authority already due to his father's position as a respected elder, and Vok'fon himself was known as a skilled warrior and leader, but he had no explicit authority over the warriors he took, other than that which he used in persuasion. Comparably you have always received support from your father and the Burning Blade generally, being furnished with warriors, supplies and expertise as necessary. You wear a sword that you certainly believe you've earned as a son and a warrior, but still a sword you've been given, not one you'd won or taken by your own merits solely.

You know some of the Orcs in your warband, but you've not really spoken to them and you certainly don't know all of their names. This isn't completely necessary for a leader, after all, Thrall doesn't speak regularly with each warrior in the Horde, not even the chiefs speak often with their clansfolk, but you reflect that perhaps it would be necessary to know your people more. They accept your leadership as a captain, and in turn your future responsibilities as the clan's chief, but unlike Vok'fon you didn't really have to persuade anyone to join you.

You intended to lead in future as well. You didn't have any particular idea of when or how, but it seemed clear that if you intended that your clan grow in power you would also grow in power as the clan's heir. In time it was possible that your father step down from his position and leave it to you, retiring to manage the clan's warlocks as he does now, which would leave you in command of several thousands. Certainly at that point charisma and vision would be necessary rather than simply wandering about as you have previously with a band of fighters at your back.

You knew your own purpose, you knew leadership of the Burning Blade could aid you and was likely the fastest and easiest path to greater power and in turn to the success of your goals. The question was how best you could support your path. Here in Lordaeron you intended to fight alongside the Scarlet Crusade, but perhaps you could also acquire greater forces to prove your ability to lead? On the other hand though you could also investigate other traditions of magic or take to diplomatic efforts toward the humans in order to strengthen and provide strength for your clan? What was the best way?

Organisation: Captain

Your next task is to see to the organisation of your warband in the future, and you assemble your officers to discuss the matter.

"I do not intend to simply hand over control of this warband while I see to other matters. I am a shaman," you explain, "but foremost I'm a warrior and captain of the Burning Blade."

There are murmurs of approval from the others.

"I will maintain responsibility for the overall direction, leadership and training of this warband." you state clearly, "In turn, Scorn will serve as my second, and my brother Vark as my third. I have fought with both previously and know you both and your capabilities."

Vark nods and a few of the others also show their agreement, though Sorek looks somewhat less pleased.

"In battle our centre will be the shieldwall of the Burning Blade, commanded by Scorn. Vark, you will lead those Orcs who have recently joined the clan, and you'll train them in battle as well. Teach them what you know of the Warsong, they'll be our scouts and skirmishing force, I've no wish to be surprised by the undead. Sorek, you and your company will be the reserve. 'The blade is sheathed when dry'."

Sorek nods, recognising one of Akinos' teachings of the philosophy of the Blademasters in war.

"No warrior will pursue the enemy without orders, no warrior will break ranks or go where he wills, and no warrior will retreat while the standard still flies."

You describe other matters, occasionally consulting the others on particular points or suggestions such as Kartha's that the new clan members under Vark's new command be investigated for any particular skills they might be able to teach others. You emphasise skill and discipline rather than the simple valour and might that characterises your people, relating the matters you've been considering. You give you warriors purpose, you give them vision.

"It is well that you lead as Blackhand did." one of the older warriors says and those of the Blackrock, as well as many of the other clans agree.

"Blackhand was the greatest general our people have ever had." you reply, thinking back to Akinos' words on the Orc, "You know why I left Durotar, I intend to do what the Forgers made our people for. We are going to war. Lok'tar!"

Your first warband struggled bravely under your command. The fate of this one will be different and you allow yourself a smile as the officers salute, fist striking breast as they return the battlecry.

-1 action per turn to represent your efforts to lead the warband yourself, managing matters more directly and having more of a say over the different affairs of battle and march, as well as greater awareness of emergent issues rather than relying on others to tell you about things.

+2 Warband Actions per turn, representing anything you might reasonably do with the warband from logistical matters, training and exercising, military actions such as attacking places. You are, after all, here to fight a war.

Lead: Search for human settlements to make friendly contact.


Your warriors have already been out for hunting and you find it relatively easy to find a human settlement. You simply walk down one of the roads until you find a track that's more recently worn away and head down it, leading a good part of your warband while the rest remain at the manor.

The village you find is much as you might expect, there's several thatched cottages and a single larger building, possibly a barn or similar, with a wooden palisade around the settlement and a few crude watchtowers, not much more than three pine trunks lashed together with a platform on top.

There's also a horde of several hundred undead outside.

These are the first undead you've seen, well… apart from Jubei'thos perhaps… They're, in a word, rather unimpressive. They paw at the pallisade, some managing to find gaps between the calking of the wall and slowly weakening the structure yet you can only imagine they're dangerous because of their large numbers and unending hunger and resilience. A few carry weapons in slackened grip, some wear the colours and metal of Lordaeron but all are in states of decay.

"What motivates them do you think?" you murmur to Sorek beside you, "Some intelligence of evil or merely the memories of hate and fear they preserve beyond life?"

He looks at you, "Does it matter?"

"'The mind moves the blade'." you reply.

"Yes, I remember," he shrugs, it was another of Ankinos' teachings, "but it seems pointless with those down there. Either they're directed as you say by some intellect utterly beyond us or they're less than animals. It would be like empathising with an ant hive."

You frown, looking down at the undead. "Perhaps you're right."

Scorn though is unimpressed, "If you're both done, do we need to attack anyway? This matter doesn't seem pressing and the humans will certainly report our arrival."

"We aren't trying to hide, and it'll be good to blood the band here." you reply, "Move in cautiously, let them come up to attack us here and make a shieldwall. Sorek, you're in reserve as I've said, get me some prisoners I want a closer look at them."

They both nod and you advance. The march of Orcish feet and the clash of axe on shield is heard immediately and the horde turns, groaning and moaning as they shuffle toward you, one emaciated figure falling into a run on all fours, slavering and hissing like a beast as it leaps toward you.

The peace of the blade falls upon you as you draw your sword.

Purpose fill you.

And you leave only ash in your wake.

+ minor skill increases
 
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This place might be a good place to train our warband as there is no really leadership among the undead in the Tirisfal Glades
 
I take it we got some scuff rolls for our meditation.

The village you find is much as you might expect, there's several thatched cottages and a single larger building, possibly a barn or similar, with a wooden palisade around the settlement and a few crude watchtowers, not much more than three pine trunks lashed together with a platform on top.

There's also a horde of several hundred undead outside.
mmm...

Outside means they're hopefully alive inside, fingers crossed.
 
I take it we got some scuff rolls for our meditation.
So as far as I understand it, a GM should roll for consequential things rather than things which are either easy or trivial in significance. You don't have a roll to not stab yourself while training etc, nor do you have rolls for relatively easy tasks like ordering people about when they're required to obey you. None of the actions this turn were you trying to do anything difficult, to 'change' things. For example 50 orcs vs 300 zombies is pretty trivial, the undead are too weak to do anything and orcs are massive. What would a roll for talking to Vok'fon be? Is he going to be reluctant to talk to you? Not really, nor is he going to withhold information. For the warband action your using blademaster tactics generally, which to the Blackrock look very similar, and you're deliberately deploying quotes from your well respected teacher, so it's not like anyone is going to disobey etc.

Meditation is somewhat tricky though. What would a roll represent here? What is meditation doing? Is it for suddenly getting your elemental connection back and the elements talking to you again? No certainly not, that's pretty much impossible at the moment. Did your meditation give you insight into the warband stuff and later allow you to activate your fire sword again? Yes. If you were actively trying to connect with an elemental, do some flameseeing or something then sure I'd roll for that, but I wouldn't roll for sitting down having a think.
 
So as far as I understand it, a GM should roll for consequential things rather than things which are either easy or trivial in significance. You don't have a roll to not stab yourself while training etc, nor do you have rolls for relatively easy tasks like ordering people about when they're required to obey you. None of the actions this turn were you trying to do anything difficult, to 'change' things. For example 50 orcs vs 300 zombies is pretty trivial, the undead are too weak to do anything and orcs are massive. What would a roll for talking to Vok'fon be? Is he going to be reluctant to talk to you? Not really, nor is he going to withhold information. For the warband action your using blademaster tactics generally, which to the Blackrock look very similar, and you're deliberately deploying quotes from your well respected teacher, so it's not like anyone is going to disobey etc.

Meditation is somewhat tricky though. What would a roll represent here? What is meditation doing? Is it for suddenly getting your elemental connection back and the elements talking to you again? No certainly not, that's pretty much impossible at the moment. Did your meditation give you insight into the warband stuff and later allow you to activate your fire sword again? Yes. If you were actively trying to connect with an elemental, do some flameseeing or something then sure I'd roll for that, but I wouldn't roll for sitting down having a think.

so what was the mechanical impact of the meditation? Did it buff skill increases?

I guess next turn we need to do flameseeing to scout out areas of elemental power? Plus maybe send the war and scouting for it?
 
so what was the mechanical impact of the meditation? Did it buff skill increases?

I guess next turn we need to do flameseeing to scout out areas of elemental power? Plus maybe send the war and scouting for it?
There was none, at least there. What are you guys expectations regarding this? As a shaman meditation is required, in this chapter it served a narrative purpose. I could have simply said 'you meditated' and 'you organised your warband'. Things like talking to Vok'fon didn't give you any specific mechanical bonuses and the skill ups you did get were also pretty minor, but for things like meditation you're effectively sorting out your mental health issues. You almost died many times, had various traumatic experiences and so on, I've written in various symptoms of ptsd like phantom pains and flashbacks, meditation and contemplation goes some way to reducing them. You can't really separate your general guilt at doing some dark shamanism and so on with the mental health implications. Here you got distracted and didn't get into it, in future sessions you might, but that depends on you actually confronting the issue of how you approached shamanism. Feldad references this, he's sort of misinterpreted what you were saying and basically said 'dont worry about it it'll go away in a bit and you'll feel ok'. This isn't a matter of 'you did X number of meditation actions, you are now Y away from being back to normal'
 
So as far as I understand it, a GM should roll for consequential things rather than things which are either easy or trivial in significance. You don't have a roll to not stab yourself while training etc, nor do you have rolls for relatively easy tasks like ordering people about when they're required to obey you. None of the actions this turn were you trying to do anything difficult, to 'change' things. For example 50 orcs vs 300 zombies is pretty trivial, the undead are too weak to do anything and orcs are massive. What would a roll for talking to Vok'fon be? Is he going to be reluctant to talk to you? Not really, nor is he going to withhold information. For the warband action your using blademaster tactics generally, which to the Blackrock look very similar, and you're deliberately deploying quotes from your well respected teacher, so it's not like anyone is going to disobey etc.

Meditation is somewhat tricky though. What would a roll represent here? What is meditation doing? Is it for suddenly getting your elemental connection back and the elements talking to you again? No certainly not, that's pretty much impossible at the moment. Did your meditation give you insight into the warband stuff and later allow you to activate your fire sword again? Yes. If you were actively trying to connect with an elemental, do some flameseeing or something then sure I'd roll for that, but I wouldn't roll for sitting down having a think.
Which is fair. My defence would be that wasn't the impression I got for the meditation rolls, if nothing else I didn't realise that we had activated the firesword again.

You mentioned the ash in the wake, but I assumed that was either metaphoric, or from the fact the fire sword is inherently an enchanted fire sword which I'm assuming is the point, since him being able to do it again probably would have been a big deal.

There was none, at least there. What are you guys expectations regarding this? As a shaman meditation is required, in this chapter it served a narrative purpose. I could have simply said 'you meditated' and 'you organised your warband'. Things like talking to Vok'fon didn't give you any specific mechanical bonuses and the skill ups you did get were also pretty minor, but for things like meditation you're effectively sorting out your mental health issues. You almost died many times, had various traumatic experiences and so on, I've written in various symptoms of ptsd like phantom pains and flashbacks, meditation and contemplation goes some way to reducing them. You can't really separate your general guilt at doing some dark shamanism and so on with the mental health implications. Here you got distracted and didn't get into it, in future sessions you might, but that depends on you actually confronting the issue of how you approached shamanism. Feldad references this, he's sort of misinterpreted what you were saying and basically said 'dont worry about it it'll go away in a bit and you'll feel ok'. This isn't a matter of 'you did X number of meditation actions, you are now Y away from being back to normal'
Ah, now here's where the rolls come in because while yes there is the possibility to get the distracted the rolls point is to try and induce a level of randomisation. It'd need to be a damn good roll to not get distracted, but it implies the possibility.

Anyway, would be neat to know in the future, nice to know I essentially wasted this turn's attempts because I assumed we'd get rolls hence my emphasis on focus, damn it all.

And no I know its not a matter of do X action Y times, but I had assumed he'd at least focus on the issues presented in the action rather than literally anything but, which was another reason for my assumption we got a crap roll.

Since he did focus on literally anything but, including the furniture.

Edit
I guess next turn we need to do flameseeing to scout out areas of elemental power? Plus maybe send the war and scouting for it?
We can't do that, we still can't do shamanism.
 
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There was none, at least there. What are you guys expectations regarding this?
Also to emphasise what I was expecting was for "meditation"

To focus on this
From your father's words the abandonment of the Spirits will end in time, yet perhaps they've abandoned you not because you supported the summoning of demons but because of the darkness the Kolkar shaman noted in your heart? Certainly you've been practicing the form of shamanism common to your clan and similar to that of others, but if so why had the Kolkar been so outraged?
Not furniture, not how humans do war, not how humans govern themselves, the orcs govern themselves, or Grok having to once more reaffirm that he is in fact here to do the thing he's been saying he's going to be doing for the past six weeks!

I was expecting him to get to thinking about his shamanism, instead of (as I have said) literally anything else. The point of taking the action was to get him to try and think about these things, and we had zero indication would then not do that for reasons entirely unrelated to "distraction" or trauma but because he has no attention span!

Having thought it over a bit, I feel duped!
 
Good update, it was fun to read how the MC was putting himself together and receiving lots of support from everyone.
 
Ah, now here's where the rolls come in because while yes there is the possibility to get the distracted the rolls point is to try and induce a level of randomisation. It'd need to be a damn good roll to not get distracted, but it implies the possibility.

Anyway, would be neat to know in the future, nice to know I essentially wasted this turn's attempts because I assumed we'd get rolls hence my emphasis on focus, damn it all.

And no I know its not a matter of do X action Y times, but I had assumed he'd at least focus on the issues presented in the action rather than literally anything but, which was another reason for my assumption we got a crap roll.

Since he did focus on literally anything but, including the furniture.
Not furniture, not how humans do war, not how humans govern themselves, the orcs govern themselves, or Grok having to once more reaffirm that he is in fact here to do the thing he's been saying he's going to be doing for the past six weeks!

I was expecting him to get to thinking about his shamanism, instead of (as I have said) literally anything else. The point of taking the action was to get him to try and think about these things, and we had zero indication would then not do that for reasons entirely unrelated to "distraction" or trauma but because he has no attention span!

Having thought it over a bit, I feel duped!
So again, what is your expectation regarding this?

Any action which involves this sort of this is going to be necessarily nebulous. Here Grok was unable to concentrate and focus for a variety of reasons. This doesn't mean the action was wasted, and instead he considered other matters during his contemplation. The stuff about how humans govern themselves vs orcs, about how military forces are invested in and so on is entirely relevant. The relationship between orcs and the Elements is indeed spiritual, but like all religion (and especially because as others have noted this is a story about historical materialism as much as its about orcs), the other factors are important. The Blackrock contemplation of the elements is inextricably linked to their industrial culture and environmental practices. The Frostwolves are a crude people, lacking in the martial culture of other clans. They hunt, that's about it, they don't try to change things like the Thunderlords who actively hunt the gronn. This is also reflected in their spiritual practices, they're the most 'respectful' clan. The Burning Blade in turn are the only clan to practice arcane magic with the blademasters, and that's (possibly, given its never explained) because the blademasters among all the orcs practice self-discipline and skill over just hitting stuff or performing sacrifices. In turn this martial excellence must be fed by the rest of the clan, thus the monologue regarding knights and their peasants.

I'll acknowledge that I could have made this more explicit but that seems crude for what's supposed to be a narrative of self discovery. Meditation remains a spiritual experience and I understand you like to metagame and munchkin stuff but you can't jailbreak spirituality. To be spiritually wise requires spiritual contemplation.

You mentioned rolls and their purpose earlier in your post. Yes rolls represent randomness, although I'd use the term agency instead, but sometimes things aren't random and agency is restrained or indeed guaranteed. Jubei'thos got a roll for when he'd get to you, not if. There was no roll for persuading Proudpeak because you kidnapped and tried to enslave him and he'd never consider working with you.

In terms of narrative vs mechanical, I could have said something like 'talking to vokfon gives you +20 for the command action' but that seems reductivist. Here you meditated on the previous wars and the nature of the human civilisation, then you spoke to vokfon about various things, learning about his emphasis on vision and charisma, which you further considered. Then you did indeed meditate on your purpose in Lordaeron, which again formed an element of your general introspection. This in turn informed your actions with the warband where you gave an explicit goal, to wage war, to show the pride of your people, to achieve victory etc, and also this contributed to lighting your sword up. Would you have lit it without those meditation actions? I'm not going to give an indication either way on that because I didn't mechanicise it either way, but sure it would have been a contributing factor.

Similarly, compare things like previously when Scorn told you to sod off when you tried to talk to him with here where you've gotten specific approval for the way you're talking to people. Grok is learning about stuff, partly because he's been thinking in this manner which yes is represented by the + you got to Tactics this turn, but is also represented in narrative.

So yes, the meditation actions did indeed contribute to your successes this chapter, and were not wasted.
 
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*crosses arms*
Basically, for future, we should grab meditate actions for the character development, especially because even IF the elements were to be like 'we cool Grok' Grok himself would likely be like 'but HOW CAN I LIVE WITH MYSEEEELF!' all dramatic-like.
 
we should grab meditate actions for the character development,
Sure, but keep in mind I'll take it as n opportunity to waffle on about stuff to develop the narrative, which I'll do even if you don't specifically take such an action. I would suggest taking it periodically to contemplate particular issues, or perhaps to try out new magics.

Also, found this when I was doing some reading, classic orcs right here lol:

"The Sentinels had been skinned and then chopped up into pieces, left for carrion feeders. Whether or not they had been alive when they were skinned was debatable. The skins of the murdered night elves were hung on trees that had painted Horde symbols depicted on them; written with elven blood. Since the night elves have ceased to allow Horde members into Ashenvale in protest of the incident at the Wrathgate, many orcs celebrated this attack."
 
Sure, but keep in mind I'll take it as n opportunity to waffle on about stuff to develop the narrative, which I'll do even if you don't specifically take such an action. I would suggest taking it periodically to contemplate particular issues, or perhaps to try out new magics.

Also, found this when I was doing some reading, classic orcs right here lol:

"The Sentinels had been skinned and then chopped up into pieces, left for carrion feeders. Whether or not they had been alive when they were skinned was debatable. The skins of the murdered night elves were hung on trees that had painted Horde symbols depicted on them; written with elven blood. Since the night elves have ceased to allow Horde members into Ashenvale in protest of the incident at the Wrathgate, many orcs celebrated this attack."
That is just so orcish almost to the point they're like ancient Celts doing prisoner mutilation.
So again, what is your expectation regarding this?

Any action which involves this sort of this is going to be necessarily nebulous. Here Grok was unable to concentrate and focus for a variety of reasons. This doesn't mean the action was wasted, and instead he considered other matters during his contemplation. The stuff about how humans govern themselves vs orcs, about how military forces are invested in and so on is entirely relevant. The relationship between orcs and the Elements is indeed spiritual, but like all religion (and especially because as others have noted this is a story about historical materialism as much as its about orcs), the other factors are important. The Blackrock contemplation of the elements is inextricably linked to their industrial culture and environmental practices. The Frostwolves are a crude people, lacking in the martial culture of other clans. They hunt, that's about it, they don't try to change things like the Thunderlords who actively hunt the gronn. This is also reflected in their spiritual practices, they're the most 'respectful' clan. The Burning Blade in turn are the only clan to practice arcane magic with the blademasters, and that's (possibly, given its never explained) because the blademasters among all the orcs practice self-discipline and skill over just hitting stuff or performing sacrifices. In turn this martial excellence must be fed by the rest of the clan, thus the monologue regarding knights and their peasants.

I'll acknowledge that I could have made this more explicit but that seems crude for what's supposed to be a narrative of self discovery. Meditation remains a spiritual experience and I understand you like to metagame and munchkin stuff but you can't jailbreak spirituality. To be spiritually wise requires spiritual contemplation.

You mentioned rolls and their purpose earlier in your post. Yes rolls represent randomness, although I'd use the term agency instead, but sometimes things aren't random and agency is restrained or indeed guaranteed. Jubei'thos got a roll for when he'd get to you, not if. There was no roll for persuading Proudpeak because you kidnapped and tried to enslave him and he'd never consider working with you.

In terms of narrative vs mechanical, I could have said something like 'talking to vokfon gives you +20 for the command action' but that seems reductivist. Here you meditated on the previous wars and the nature of the human civilisation, then you spoke to vokfon about various things, learning about his emphasis on vision and charisma, which you further considered. Then you did indeed meditate on your purpose in Lordaeron, which again formed an element of your general introspection. This in turn informed your actions with the warband where you gave an explicit goal, to wage war, to show the pride of your people, to achieve victory etc, and also this contributed to lighting your sword up. Would you have lit it without those meditation actions? I'm not going to give an indication either way on that because I didn't mechanicise it either way, but sure it would have been a contributing factor.

Similarly, compare things like previously when Scorn told you to sod off when you tried to talk to him with here where you've gotten specific approval for the way you're talking to people. Grok is learning about stuff, partly because he's been thinking in this manner which yes is represented by the + you got to Tactics this turn, but is also represented in narrative.

So yes, the meditation actions did indeed contribute to your successes this chapter, and were not wasted.
I saw Blackhand get mentioned. In more mediative actions I imagine Grok contemplating the famous members of the horde looking at their strengths and weaknesses. Blackhand for one was good at what he did but was still a pawn to the real power holders the shadow council.

The shadow council itself is also good to contemplate as it's a secret society with a purpose.
 
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I'll acknowledge that I could have made this more explicit but that seems crude for what's supposed to be a narrative of self discovery. Meditation remains a spiritual experience and I understand you like to metagame and munchkin stuff but you can't jailbreak spirituality. To be spiritually wise requires spiritual contemplation.
Its not crude, it means I don't go into actions with the expectation of this

From your father's words the abandonment of the Spirits will end in time, yet perhaps they've abandoned you not because you supported the summoning of demons but because of the darkness the Kolkar shaman noted in your heart? Certainly you've been practicing the form of shamanism common to your clan and similar to that of others, but if so why had the Kolkar been so outraged?
And get none of that.

I (unsurprisingly) expect what I am told to expect because that is what I am told to expect and I want to trust that I can trust the GM is not misleading me on what the actions say they're doing to do.

Doing far too much repetition of words in that last sentence, but I think its good for emphasis.

Regardless not crude to try and work with the players nor to shape their expectations.

In any case I do object, I am not trying to munchkin it, I am trying to be efficient and want our actions to have meaning. I know I can't jail break spirituality, but I can try to time when we do it for better effect if that is in fact an issue!

I had assumed that Grok would be able to go off and focus on the topics presented in the option, they are laid out, instead they are not even mentioned, nor do they apply to the supposed goal of the actual option in the first place.

Any action which involves this sort of this is going to be necessarily nebulous.
In short, do not give me the excuse of nebulousness when you give very concrete examples of shit Grok himself feels he should be thinking about. Never mind acting surprised at my expectations being subverted.

This could have all been alleviated if you'd put instead (for example)

[a] Mediate: You have many things to think about in order to come to terms with who you are, what is going on, how you are doing and what you are becoming.

That is not ****Ing crude it's general it gives you freedom, it does not inform my expectation of what I'm getting from an action!

TLDR: If I was going in with the impression of Grok musing on a wide variety of topics to try and help his spirituality I'd not be bitching, instead I was told he was going to try and do a self evaluation to try and figure out why the Kolkar think he's evil, which if nothing else I assumed would mean thinking about that!

You mentioned rolls and their purpose earlier in your post. Yes rolls represent randomness, although I'd use the term agency instead, but sometimes things aren't random and agency is restrained or indeed guaranteed. Jubei'thos got a roll for when he'd get to you, not if. There was no roll for persuading Proudpeak because you kidnapped and tried to enslave him and he'd never consider working with you.
And I agree as a rule.

Then you did indeed meditate on your purpose in Lordaeron, which again formed an element of your general introspection. This in turn informed your actions with the warband where you gave an explicit goal, to wage war, to show the pride of your people, to achieve victory etc, and also this contributed to lighting your sword up. Would you have lit it without those meditation actions? I'm not going to give an indication either way on that because I didn't mechanicise it either way, but sure it would have been a contributing factor.
Which again is him just repeating what he's already considered, several times now with and without player input.

Also for the write in not the intent!

As for that last bit, the essential answer of "doesn't matter if it did or not" is the ****ing problem!

Furthermore, it also undercuts the thing to have whatever Grok did with the bloody sword essentially become an after thought, I have no ****ing idea what he did with it beyond "its on fire now" which from a magic fire sword is a statement about as interesting as water wet.

"The Sentinels had been skinned and then chopped up into pieces, left for carrion feeders. Whether or not they had been alive when they were skinned was debatable. The skins of the murdered night elves were hung on trees that had painted Horde symbols depicted on them; written with elven blood. Since the night elves have ceased to allow Horde members into Ashenvale in protest of the incident at the Wrathgate, many orcs celebrated this attack."
Sigh.

Shit like this is why I am growing increasingly to think that Daelin Proudmore was right.
 
This could have all been alleviated if you'd put instead (for example)

[a] Mediate: You have many things to think about in order to come to terms with who you are, what is going on, how you are doing and what you are becoming.
While I don't really accept some of your points, I think this one is fair. There was a chain of logic there of thinking about the spirits and stuff but I get how this might not have come across from simply the wording there
 
While I don't really accept some of your points, I think this one is fair. There was a chain of logic there of thinking about the spirits and stuff but I get how this might not have come across from simply the wording there
Which of said points (likely tomorrow since it is late for me and presumably you). I am overly fond of hyperbole, but I am trying to make this a two way thing, so my logic (or lack there of) in my points needs critique as well.

And yes there is a chain of logic to be had in considering why he thinks about spirits and elementalism, how it relates to his culture (his immeasurably messed up culture) and in turn why he's lost his shamanism. I personally think its not a very useful chain of logic, since in this case the problem is demonstrably one personal to Grok and we have the fel and elemental using Blademaster to prove it, but nobody accused Grok of being overly burdened with common sense a lot of the time.

He was right when Garrosh lobbed that mana bomb at Theramore.
Problem is he was arguably right long before that point, Garrosh just gave all the evidence needed for his position and then some.
 
He could but they didn't when they had them by the throat after Doomhammer's loss. Instead there was the internment camps.
I mean he did argue for killing the lot of them then and I'm still not down with genocide no matter what.

Teranas was inarguably the merciful one of the alliance's leaders because the internment camps were the least death filled option proposed.
 
I mean he did argue for killing the lot of them then and I'm still not down with genocide no matter what.

Teranas was inarguably the merciful one of the alliance's leaders because the internment camps were the least death filled option proposed.
Just stating the facts. It is also a good mediative topic to go through by learning from the present and dead Alliance leaders.

They have their good and bad points that won them the war but lost them to the undead which to be fair was the new OCP.
 
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