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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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Personally, I want Dhar Insight because I'm a terrible person: I don't want anyone else to have fun.

Right now, we can stop Orks from having fun, and we can shut down any necromancer fun too. We can even stomp our their previously accumulated fun, which is very good. But there's still many left who we can't stop from having fun. There's Skaven, right now, having fun in their tunnels, and also Chaos dudes having fun on their steppes, or Beastmen in the forests. That is unacceptable. We can only hope future no-fun-stones will improve this abomidable state, and reduce the amount of fun available to other people. But even worse than just the existance of other people's fun, is that they might come to have fun near us, which is doubly unbearable.

With Dhar Insight, we can figure out how they're having fun, and then make sure it never happens again while we're around. Do you think Kragg got his name and age by letting others have fun? No! And as the oldest and best magic user we know, we should clearly follow his example.
 
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BurnNote said:
Personally, I want Dhar Insight because I'm a terrible person: I don't want anyone else to have fun.

Right now, we can stop Orks from having fun, and we can shut down any necromancer fun too. We can even stomp our their previously accumulated fun, which is very good. But there's still many left who we can't stop from having fun. There's Skaven, right now, having fun in their tunnels, and also Chaos dudes having fun on their steppes, or Beastmen in the forsests. That is unacceptable. We can only hope future no-fun-stones will improve this abomidable state, and reduce the amount of fun available to other people. But even worse than just the existance of other people's fun, is that they might come to have fun near us, which is doubly unbearable.

With Dhar Insight, we can figure out how they're having fun, and then make sure it never happens again while we're around. Do you think Kragg got his name and age by letting others have fun? No! And as the oldest and best magic user we know, we should clearly follow his example.
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And that's why Mathilde should get Dawri as her DIPLO trait, so that she opens the door to being adopted by Kragg as his daughter.
 
picklepikkl said:
Counterspelling and shutting down Dhar-based baddies does seem likely to be very useful, especially in the context of our new base of operations being in Beastmen country. Stunting on Bray-Shaman as hard as we stunt on Waaagh-users sounds hilarious and good for the digestion. Just, in general I prefer to build characters with an eye toward increasing skills for things I want to do, as opposed to increasing skill at stopping other people from doing things I don't want them to do.
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If it helps, I have a nice list of things that Mathilde could do with an insight into Dhar.

BurnNote said:
Personally, I want Dhar Insight because I'm a terrible person: I don't want anyone else to have fun.

Right now, we can stop Orks from having fun, and we can shut down any necromancer fun too. We can even stomp our their previously accumulated fun, which is very good. But there's still many left who we can't stop from having fun. There's Skaven, right now, having fun in their tunnels, and also Chaos dudes having fun on their steppes, or Beastmen in the forsests. That is unacceptable. We can only hope future no-fun-stones will improve this abomidable state, and reduce the amount of fun available to other people. But even worse than just the existance of other people's fun, is they might come to have fun near us, which is doubly unbearable.

With Dhar Insight, we can figure out how they're having fun, and then make sure it never happens again while we're around. Do you think Kragg got his name and age by letting others have fun? No! And as the oldest and best magic user we know, we should clearly follow his example.
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You monster! I get wanting to practice Dhark Arts that poison the lands and enslave innocents souls, but playing Azorius Control!?
 
I also have a theory stemming from my own personal thoughts why Dhar options are popular. Just a disclaimer, but I think most people's first thoughts are definitely to use the Liber Mortis and Dhar Insight for perfectly legal means, using it to shut down necromancers and the like.

That being said, I think Dhar is just incredibly tempting. We already know that the Liber Mortis can turn a person who barely has any magical ability into an absolute terror who shut down the Skaven in an entire province, how powerful could it be in the hands of an already powerful and knowledgable Lady Magister? We know from Boney that an apprentice who would read a paper about Dhar Insight published by Mathilde could become an Empire level threat, so therein lies the temptation. Dhar is a quick and easy way to power, and while I'm absolutely sure we'd never delve into Dhar at all if the circumstances were ideal or even bad, if things got bad enough there's always a part of our brain that appreciates having a secret weapon. Something we could pull out to turn the tides when things seem hopeless.

Obviously I would never advocate for the use of Dhar unless Belegar, Panoramia and possibly all of K8P falls, and using Dhar is a fast track to a game over state because it turns whoever uses it into a narcissistic megalomaniac and an absolute idiot (case in point, the greatest Necromancer of all time Nagasha playing Fetch with Sigmar because he saw his Crown and getting punted to death). It's still a tempting thing to have that much power in your backpocket.
 
It's not too late to vote for Collegiate! Knowing the right words to put in the right ears could mean the difference between recruiting individuals and recruiting entire traditions. It's not what you know, it's who you know, and with Collegiate we can come to know a great deal of powerful and knowledgeable people.
 
BurnNote said:
Personally, I want Dhar Insight because I'm a terrible person: I don't want anyone else to have fun.

Right now, we can stop Orks from having fun, and we can shut down any necromancer fun too. We can even stomp our their previously accumulated fun, which is very good. But there's still many left who we can't stop from having fun. There's Skaven, right now, having fun in their tunnels, and also Chaos dudes having fun on their steppes, or Beastmen in the forsests. That is unacceptable. We can only hope future no-fun-stones will improve this abomidable state, and reduce the amount of fun available to other people. But even worse than just the existance of other people's fun, is that they might come to have fun near us, which is doubly unbearable.

With Dhar Insight, we can figure out how they're having fun, and then make sure it never happens again while we're around. Do you think Kragg got his name and age by letting others have fun? No! And as the oldest and best magic user we know, we should clearly follow his example.
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Suddenly i am almost convinced to not be sad about not getting mystic.
I'm still sad for no mystic, but i am definitely sold on this being a decent outcome as well.
 
I would like to preface this post by saying I voted for both Collegiate and Polyglot. They're both excellent picks, and more wizard screentime is always good in my books.

And there's all sorts of good and practical reasons people have listed for voting Polyglot, among them ease of engaging new cultures and stealing their lore, broadening diplomatic outreach, discovering magical language insights, and increased B O O K bonuses.

But there's one pie in the sky sideproject I've not heard mentioned, and would like to make a case for now—magical word processing!

Because, as @Derpmind put it, Language is magic.

BoneyM said:
Lingua Praestantia, however, is no mundane language. It is descended from the tongue of the beings the Elves say shaped the world, and it not only possesses words for concepts alien to Reikspiel, it also resonates with magic in such a way that chants and incantations in it resonate with magic and assist with the shaping of spells, rather than acting as a mere mnemonic device. A much lesser known property of the language is that it works the other way as well - just as Praestantia can shape magic, magic can form Praestantia.
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And it's been five long years since Magister Mathilde Weber tried, and failed, to create a magical dictation mechanism.

BoneyM said:
You had explored the possibility of magical dictation, but had run into roadblocks early and often. There were two ways for it to work - one where the enchantment would access the mind of the user, and one that relied only on sound. The former was several disasters waiting to happen, as so far the intended users of the tower were yourself and Maximilian, which meant that at best half and more likely both of you would have a foreign magic operating on your brain, and creating Dhar inside one's brain was as terrible idea as it sounded, and even if your belt would protect you from it, it would still prevent it from working. The latter was trickier than it sounded, and you would either need to create or enslave a sentient mind for the purpose - rather drastic, morally dubious, and that's what you had Maximilian for - or you build a complete understanding of Reikspiel or Praestantia into the spell itself, which would be an utterly titanic undertaking. Infuriatingly, Dwarven runes could perform this easily - but only for Khazalid. Something to do with both the Klinkarun alphabet of Khazalid and the art of Runesmithing both descending from the Ancestor Gods, apparently. An interesting line of enquiry at a time when you're drowning in them, but no good for you unless you write a paper for Dwarven eyes only.
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Emphasis mine. And since then we've even seen Dwarven runes manipulate text:

BoneyM said:
The Elemental stops before it reaches you and raises a hand, and stone spreads out from its fingers until it is holding out a stone depiction of a tablet, and the surface of it ripples as Khazalid appears upon it. Visitor to Vala-Azril-Ungol; there exists danger within the Karak. Please proceed to safety at: Bok. None found. Please inform Runelord: Bok. None found. Please inform Archmage: Bok. None found. Please inform Runelord... And the writing repeats itself over and over until it reaches the end of the tablet. Underneath that, Eltharin runes, Classical characters, Nehekharan hieroglyphics, and another language you don't recognize perform what you assume to be the same repetition.
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So I say now, the time has come! Don't let Mathilde's dream of automagical dictation stay a dream! Vote for Polyglot, and embark on a grand journey to end once and for all the tyranny of handwritten paperwork!*​
* Linguist trait not included and sold separately. Do not mimic runecraft without supervision. Failure to comply with safety regulations may lead to serious injury. We are not responsible for any improper usage of this narrative device. Idea not guaranteed to be feasible. AP expenditures not refunded. Call your local healthcare provider if you experience any of the following symptoms: Monomaniacal laughter. Excessive wiki searches. Internet forum dependency. Omake writing. Chomsky Normal Form.
 
BurnNote said:
Personally, I want Dhar Insight because I'm a terrible person: I don't want anyone else to have fun.

Right now, we can stop Orks from having fun, and we can shut down any necromancer fun too. We can even stomp our their previously accumulated fun, which is very good. But there's still many left who we can't stop from having fun. There's Skaven, right now, having fun in their tunnels, and also Chaos dudes having fun on their steppes, or Beastmen in the forests. That is unacceptable. We can only hope future no-fun-stones will improve this abomidable state, and reduce the amount of fun available to other people. But even worse than just the existance of other people's fun, is that they might come to have fun near us, which is doubly unbearable.

With Dhar Insight, we can figure out how they're having fun, and then make sure it never happens again while we're around. Do you think Kragg got his name and age by letting others have fun? No! And as the oldest and best magic user we know, we should clearly follow his example.
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I resonate with this post like you wouldn't believe.

[X] DIPLO: Dawri
[X] DIPLO: Polyglot
[X] LESSON: Dhar Insight
[X] LESSON: Logistician
[X] LESSON: Light Fingers
 
ReImagined said:
While I agree generally, I feel like the trait that fits thematically the most with Duckling Club is Mentor - saving Gretel from her miscast, telling Hubert how to be his own wizard, everything that happened with Johann and Panoramia and company. The K8P wizards were the ones who saw an adventure in a precariously positioned hold at the edge of the world and thought, yeah, I want to be there instead of some cushy job in Reikland, and Mathilde was the one there to help guide and lead them through it. While Collegiate seems more to be about hobnobbing with Patriarchs and commissioning fancy artifacts and calling for aid.
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You're not wrong that Mentor fits best with Duckling Club, which is a huge part of why I also voted for Mentor. But I think it would be a huge stretch to say that we ever mentored Magister Johann, who was already a Magister when we met him, and AFAIK had actually been a Magister for longer than we had. We befriended him and later employed him, but somebody else already taught him how to wizard long before we ever met. He learned things from us, but he learned them the way friends learn from each other, not the way a student learns from a mentor.

There are a lot of people in the Colleges below the level of Patriarchs, and Collegiate is an inclusive bonus to interacting with all of them near as I can tell. From Apprentices up to and including Patriarchs.
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Really, the question is: Do we want Mathilde to be a person who thinks of herself as someone who's good at learning and utilising languages, or do we want Mathilde to be a person that thinks of herself as someone who works with and strengthens the bonds between wizards of different collages and traditions?

And to be honest, Mathilde already thinks of herself as both of those people. This is just emphasising one of those aspects, but that doesn't mean we're losing or diluting the other trait.

I've fallen on the side of Colligate myself, because I really enjoy the wizard scenes, and I kind of have the low key ambition of binding the collages together more tightly. How many Journeymen have experience working with wizards from other colleges? How many are able to use the college favour system to their advantage? How many die because they were alone and isolated from their peers who understand them? A lot of our best victories have been aided by support from the colleges, and I want to be able to pay that back and empower future journeymen to walk the same path as us.
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This is excellent, and I wish I had thought to say it myself. Since I've been recently reviewing Duckling Club stuff, here's a bit that I think pertains:
BoneyM said:
"The Orcs live for violence. They are very good at violence. Their two Gods are based on two different forms of violence. If they get half a chance they'll kill you and they'll enjoy doing so." You look over your shoulder, and are pleased that your students seem to be taking your words with the gravity they deserve. "Even an unexceptional Orc will be stronger than you, tougher than you, and will probably have more combat experience than you, and they only get bigger and nastier from there. It wouldn't surprise me if even with me and Johann watching over you, today will involve me having to heal what would otherwise be a fatal injury."

"But Ulgu can't-" Adela begins, and then cuts herself off.

"It can't heal, no," you say. "Nor can Hubert throw fireballs, nor can Gretel channel lightning. Each of us is part of the Colleges of Magic, and they're spoken of collectively because even though we sometimes squabble, we are allies. Once you've started to impress your betters and spread your name around, I strongly advise you take advantage of that fact. I spent every scrap of Wizardly goodwill that my campaign in Sylvania and my Magisterial graduation earned me on a little something from Panoramia's colleagues, and I'd have died somewhere between once and thrice over these past few years if I hadn't."
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Collegiate could do a lot to put us in a position to turn that "But Ulgu can't-" into something more like "oh, did you get a healing enchantment from the Jades or the Lights? I'm saving up for something myself." And that seems very worthwhile to me, even aside from the many personal and project benefits that better connections to the Colleges could bring us.
 
Fayhem said:
Collegiate could do a lot to put us in a position to turn that "But Ulgu can't-" into something more like "oh, did you get a healing enchantment from the Jades or the Lights? I'm saving up for something myself." And that seems very worthwhile to me, even aside from the many personal and project benefits that better connections to the Colleges could bring us.
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This is true, but have you considered that Dhar Insight could help turn "But Ulgu can't-" into "But Ulgu can"?

BoneyM said:
[ ] Dhar lies thick in the air. You just need a little. Just enough to give a Grey Wizard the power to heal...
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I just need a little. Just enough incentives to give a Necromancy action have a shot at winning...
 
Omegahugger said:
This is true, but have you considered that Dhar Insight could help turn "But Ulgu can't-" into "But Ulgu can"?
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You know, we don't have any proof that that would have worked.

The only healing spell in any Dhar-associated Lore I'm aware of is Invocation of Nehek, in Necromancy*. Which can only heal the Undead. I don't see any reason to think grabbing Dhar there, any amount, would have allowed Mathilde to use Ulgu to heal.

*Technically speaking, there's a healing spell in the Drucchi Lore of Dark Magic, but dealing damage to other people to heal the caster would be rather contrary to your goals in that moment
 
Mopman43 said:
You know, we don't have any proof that that would have worked.

The only healing spell in any Dhar-associated Lore I'm aware of is Invocation of Nehek, in Necromancy*. Which can only heal the Undead. I don't see any reason to think grabbing Dhar there, any amount, would have allowed Mathilde to use Ulgu to heal.

*Technically speaking, there's a healing spell in the Drucchi Lore of Dark Magic, but dealing damage to other people to heal the caster would be rather contrary to your goals in that moment
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If you can use dhar you can use any wind of magic. if you're not afraid of creating Dhar Mathilde could learn to wield Ghyran.
 
Mopman43 said:
You know, we don't have any proof that that would have worked.

The only healing spell in any Dhar-associated Lore I'm aware of is Invocation of Nehek, in Necromancy*. Which can only heal the Undead. I don't see any reason to think grabbing Dhar there, any amount, would have allowed Mathilde to use Ulgu to heal.

*Technically speaking, there's a healing spell in the Drucchi Lore of Dark Magic, but dealing damage to other people to heal the caster would be rather contrary to your goals in that moment
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Well, there's an obvious way to find out, isn't there?

It's not like Dhar doesn't also contain all of the healing winds, and most known Dhar users aren't exactly healing-type personalities.

SuperSonicSound said:
If you can use dhar you can use any wind of magic. if you're not afraid of creating Dhar Mathilde could learn to wield Ghyran.
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Unfortunately, even I have to dissuade the notion that using Dhar in the middle of the woods would grant Mathilde the neccesary mastery of Ghyran to heal, which is what healing Abel would've required.
 
SuperSonicSound said:
If you can use dhar you can use any wind of magic. if you're not afraid of creating Dhar Mathilde could learn to wield Ghyran.
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Which would have been tremendously helpful when Abelhelm was bleeding out in front of us.

I'm specifically talking about this bit.

[ ] Dhar lies thick in the air. You just need a little. Just enough to give a Grey Wizard the power to heal...
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Learning Ghyran successfully before he dies, and dealing with the Dhar, and then casting Battle Magic... would be a tall order.
 
On one side, i definitely think Dhar could be used for healing. OTOH i don't think it was feasible at that moment and it was almost 100% sure just Dhar trying to make us use more Dhar.
 
ReImagined said:
I would like to preface this post by saying I voted for both Collegiate and Polyglot. They're both excellent picks, and more wizard screentime is always good in my books.

And there's all sorts of good and practical reasons people have listed for voting Polyglot, among them ease of engaging new cultures and stealing their lore, broadening diplomatic outreach, discovering magical language insights, and increased B O O K bonuses.

But there's one pie in the sky sideproject I've not heard mentioned, and would like to make a case for now—magical word processing!

Because, as @Derpmind put it, Language is magic.



And it's been five long years since Magister Mathilde Weber tried, and failed, to create a magical dictation mechanism.



Emphasis mine. And since then we've even seen Dwarven runes manipulate text:



So I say now, the time has come! Don't let Mathilde's dream of automagical dictation stay a dream! Vote for Polyglot, and embark on a grand journey to end once and for all the tyranny of handwritten paperwork!*​
* Linguist trait not included and sold separately. Do not mimic runecraft without supervision. Failure to comply with safety regulations may lead to serious injury. We are not responsible for any improper usage of this narrative device. Idea not guaranteed to be feasible. AP expenditures not refunded. Call your local healthcare provider if you experience any of the following symptoms: Monomaniacal laughter. Excessive wiki searches. Internet forum dependency. Omake writing. Chomsky Normal Form.
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Insightful! Now ill have to change my vote again.

[X] DIPLO: Polyglot
[X] LESSON: Dhar Insight
 
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