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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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tapkomet said:
From a meta perspective, I don't think Boney would have set all this stuff up if he didn't expect us to interact with it in at least some way.
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From a meta perspective, BoneyM lets the dice decide, and sometimes the dice say life just sucks (R.I.P. Gotrek).

He is also more than willing to give us enough rope to hang ourselves with. Just because it's there doesn't mean we are supposed to stick our heads in it.
 
BoneyM said:
Apart from his 'normal' horns, he has a sort of large frill around his head that could be bone or could be hair so matted as to become solid. It gives him a very distinctive silhouette.
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Did she hear this distinct description from her master Regimand or does she also know it from anywhere else?

BoneyM said:
There's not a lot of options for 'highly distortive Chaos creature' that's mostly man-shaped and isn't a Daemon.
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In the Chaos Wastes? Childhood homes bite people here. This could be literally anything.

Less fastidiously, does Mathilde know of any other Chaos creatures with reality-distorting effects that she'd be able to tell apart from this one? For all she knows this is how such effects always look and the infamous Cor-Dum is just the only one people know about.

Also, what makes her know that this isn't a daemon that happens to be formed like a Beastman-thingamagog?

BoneyM said:
IIRC I did a d3 where a 1 was the sun and moons, 2 was the Chaos Gods, and 3 was the Winds.
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That doesn't seem like any tilting at all. So I guess I just got lucky.


Oh and I forgot to add one question to my question list:

You said that the scene in front of Mathilde doesn't seem like an illusion to her. But did the disguised Slayers seem like an illusion to her? How would Mathilde even recognize an illusion if it is crafted well enough?

How does this whole scene look to her if she goes full Windsight and studies it in detail? Including "Morghur" himself and what's left of Karak Dum. Is it all just mostly brown watercolor splotches?
 
...you know, it occurs to me that it's going to suck super hard if the Goblet turns out to be in the possession of one of the tribes that are currently picking a fight with Morghur.
 
[x] THEORY: The Dwarves of Karag Dum did something to burn away the taint of Chaos, much as your Belt of the Unshackled Mountain does, but on a far grander scale. Perhaps it had an effect on the Beastmen here, Cor-Dum included.
[x] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
[x] ACTION: Gain more information.
[x] THEORY: Karag Dum has somehow tricked or compelled Morghur to fight the Kurgan tribes.
[x] ACTION: Turn back
 
[X] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.

[X] ACTION: Gain more information.
 
Klaus said:
From a meta perspective, BoneyM lets the dice decide, and sometimes the dice say life just sucks (R.I.P. Gotrek).

He is also more than willing to give us enough rope to hang ourselves with. Just because it's there doesn't mean we are supposed to stick our heads in it.
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Eh, that doesn't really work because Boney set the options to begin with. I suspect all of them would be at least mildly entertaining.
 
Folks, I have to say that I really think this illusion stuff is going down the wrong path.

Why would Borek act like that if it was all a clever trick? If it's a runesmith in a mask, why isn't someone from Karag Dum coming out right now to say hello?
 
Rafin said:
You said that the scene in front of Mathilde doesn't seem like an illusion to her. But did the disguised Slayers seem like an illusion to her? How would Mathilde even recognize an illusion if it is crafted well enough?
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I don't mean to be rude, and feel free to tell me if you feel I'm out of line, but this info was in the battle of high pass update itself. You should probably review that before you just ask the QM to re describe it.
BoneyM said:
But underneath all that is magic, only some of which is dedicated to the bevy of temptations that bombard you, and it's shockingly familiar. A tapestry of Ulgu dedicated to misdirection and illusion, too much for the only effect to be a difficulty in counting their numbers. You try to focus, unpick the tangled web of familiar magics woven by alien minds
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[X] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.

[X] ACTION: Gain more information.
 
Strange9 said:
And I made a whole effortpost in response :V.
Specifically, see point B below.
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For point 1, I don't understand how you can think that trading with the Chaos Dwarves briefly would be anywhere near as bad as mutating their Runesmith or pretending to be a beastman to get other Beastmen to fight on their behalf? It seems intuitive to me that the latter would be much, much worse.

For point 6, BoneyM has said that it is possible that a Runesmith could achieve the effect, though Mathilde doesn't know. Meanwhile, it is not possible for Morghur to not passively mutate everything around him into awfulness.

The Runesmith "praying" to a fake herdstone would seem an obvious example of how incredibly shameful this would be. If you are asking why they would do such a thing, it's to convince the other beastmen to defend it like they would a real herdstone, i.e. with their lives.

For point 2 - A separate defence to keep out Dhar would explain this. More importantly, it doesn't contradict the theory, in the way that Borek's actions contradict other theories. Your preferred theory doesn't answer this, either?

For point 3, I have no idea why this is hot, but neither does any other theory, to my knowledge? If there is a theory going around, does that part actually contradict the "fake Morghur" theory?

Point 4 is trivially explained as just being the bones of the tribes who attacked, and were defeated by the "tricked" beastmen herd.
 
[x] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.

[X] THEORY: The Dwarves of Karag Dum did something to burn away the taint of Chaos, much as your Belt of the Unshackled Mountain does, but on a far grander scale. Perhaps it had an effect on the Beastmen here, Cor-Dum included.

[x] ACTION: Investigate further.

[X] ACTION: Wait for at least two days and see if Karag Dum sends out an emissary. Borek will report back, and perhaps someone inside will feel less ashamed than he does.
 
BoneyM said:
Depends on the environment. Here where there's a constant drain on all ambient magics, probably not.
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Awwwww yeah. I know i should probably wait till the next update but might as well ask.

Would examining the skulls and bones of the dead kurgan in the area be viable as an action or is this something Mathilda can just look at skellies and see if they have any dhar preety quickly?

This would perhaps put more validity in the dhar burning idea rune.
 
Briefvoice said:
Folks, I have to say that I really think this illusion stuff is going down the wrong path.

Why would Borek act like that if it was all a clever trick? If it's a runesmith in a mask, why isn't someone from Karag Dum coming out right now to say hello?
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Because they're ashamed that they're dressing up like beastmen and pretending that the Karak is a herdstone? Like, can you imagine how incredibly shameful dwarves would find that? It's extremely out there by human standards.

And that's before considering if it's a costume, and not deliberate mutations to create the disguise.
 
tapkomet said:
Eh, that doesn't really work because Boney set the options to begin with. I suspect all of them would be at least mildly entertaining.
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BoneyM said:
[ ] Go even further. Wrest control of the dead and turn them against the enemy. Their greatest tool shall be their unmaking.
[ ] A book of necromancy, a newly-dead body. This doesn't need to be the end of Abelhelm. Raise him, and not in the clumsy way of the fumblers you're facing: you can make him a body superior to that of the living.
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Yep. Nothing suspicious here, folks. Nothing could possibly go wrong.
 
Rafin said:
Did she hear this distinct description from her master Regimand or does she also know it from anywhere else?
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That or absorbed it at some point during lessons as an Apprentice or stories as a child. He's one of the most feared things that go bump in the night.

Rafin said:
In the Chaos Wastes? Childhood homes bite people here. This could be literally anything.

Less fastidiously, does Mathilde know of any other Chaos creatures with reality-distorting effects that she'd be able to tell apart from this one? For all she knows this is how such effects always look and the infamous Cor-Dum is just the only one people know about.
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The thing about the possibility of other similar beings that people don't know about it, is that Mathilde is one of those people that wouldn't know about it.

Rafin said:
Also, what makes her know that this isn't a daemon that happens to be formed like a Beastman-thingamagog?
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She can tell a Daemon when she sees a Daemon.

Rafin said:
That doesn't seem like any tilting at all. So I guess I just got lucky.
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Compared to 1d15 for the 1-2-4-8?

Rafin said:
You said that the scene in front of Mathilde doesn't seem like an illusion to her. But did the disguised Slayers seem like an illusion to her? How would Mathilde even recognize an illusion if it is crafted well enough?
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This seems circular. The definition of a well-crafted illusion here is one that Mathilde wouldn't be able to recognize. And there's no Daemonic warband lead by a Higher Daemon here, so there's nothing to distract her from an active illusion, which she was still able to spot and attempted to unravel before being distracted.

Rafin said:
How does this whole scene look to her if she goes full Windsight and studies it in detail? Including "Morghur" himself and what's left of Karak Dum. Is it all just mostly brown watercolor splotches?
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An utter kaleidoscope. Everything is saturated here.

Raydom said:
Awwwww yeah. I know i should probably wait till the next update but might as well ask.

Would examining the skulls and bones of the dead kurgan in the area be viable as an action or is this something Mathilda can just look at skellies and see if they have any dhar preety quickly?

This would perhaps put more validity in the dhar burning idea rune.
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It could be a course of action if circumstances allow for investigation after the Council meeting.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
For point 1, I don't understand how you can think that trading with the Chaos Dwarves briefly would be anywhere near as bad as mutating their Runesmith or pretending to be a beastman to get other Beastmen to fight on their behalf? It seems intuitive to me that the latter would be much, much worse.

For point 6, BoneyM has said that it is possible that a Runesmith could achieve the effect, though Mathilde doesn't know. Meanwhile, it is not possible for Morghur to not passively mutate everything around him into awfulness.

The Runesmith "praying" to a fake herdstone would seem an obvious example of how incredibly shameful this would be. If you are asking why they would do such a thing, it's to convince the other beastmen to defend it like they would a real herdstone, i.e. with their lives.

For point 2 - A separate defence to keep out Dhar would explain this. More importantly, it doesn't contradict the theory, in the way that Borek's actions contradict other theories. Your preferred theory doesn't answer this, either?

For point 3, I have no idea why this is hot, but neither does any other theory, to my knowledge? If there is a theory going around, does that part actually contradict the "fake Morghur" theory?

Point 4 is trivially explained as just being the bones of the tribes who attacked, and were defeated by the "tricked" beastmen herd.
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For point 1, I think we'll have to agree to disagree? My intuition is that the Chaos Dwarves would be worse -- but we're both just relying on intuition here, so there's not much more to say.
RE: 6, the praying thing is what I meant. It just naively seem impossible to get a Runesmith or Runelord to do it -- it's like a slaaneshi slayer, but somehow worse, and you have to get a magical Priest (as all Runesmiths are priests of Thungni) to do it.
RE: 2 & 3: My preferred theory [ELGI] assumes that Dum basically carved out a bubble (semi-Vlag style) and the Hold is basically somewhere else. This explains the disappearance of the mountain range, where the forest came from, and the crater (assuming the effect is spherical). The problem with the Runesmith in disguise theory, here, is that it doesn't provide a way that the Runesmiths actually could do any of that.
Re: 4: yeah that one was a typo on my part, mb!
 
We know from Chaos Dwarves, that enslaving demons is a possibility. We have, from our Runic Belt, an example of high scale anti-chaos runes in action, effects that match with the local environment

We know the Local Tribes have lost favor with chaos. We know they view attacking the mountain as a method to regain that favor.
"All are welcome against the Dum" he said.
Beastmen are attracted to herdstones, corrupted waystones. The Karak is removing dhar. The Karack has giant waystone, *that purifies dhar*

Two holds within the grip of chaos. One within the very realm of demons, the other at its gates.....
 
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