Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
Would explain why he and Mathilde got along surprisingly well.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
-
- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Maybe it's not Morghur, not like we ever saw the thing in person, indeed the lack of and aura inclines us that way. Definitely a beastman though. Also Borek himself said almost in as many words 'we are damned, go away'. How about we listen to him and not risk life and limb just to find out precisely what sort of ink we should use on the Grudge.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Shit nevermind, pack it up and go home lads, Redshirt's cracked the case.
(This is a joke)
No the defining Characteristic of beastmen is that they are mutants with a lot of mutations usually with some kind of goat flavor. People don't pass psych tests to ascertain the morality of every goatman in the woods.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
Maybe this really isn't Morghur, but actually the offspring of Morghur and Borek! That would explain both the headpat and the lack of surprise!
The timelines don't match up at all, but this far north does that really matter?
WhiteNights
Notorious Phoneposter
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Ok. So -
Things that are very very unlikely-
Things that are very very unlikely-
- Karag Dum joining hands with Chaos
- Karag Dum all turning into beastmen
- Note - from my understanding, corruption happens from exposure to Dahr/the winds. Dahr is Magic. Dwarfs being exposed to magic will turn to stone. Without direct divine influence, they will turn to stone rather then mutate. And, honestly, if a chaos god intervenes they wouldn't turn dwarfs into generic beastmen. (can dwarfs (and elves) even turn into beastmen?)
- Karag Dum enslaving/tricking Morghur
- problem - leaves unanswered questions - how did he get there? why specifically Karag Dum? how do they control him (in thread, people said its golden age level runesmithing)
- bigger problem - the affectionate gesture to Borek.
- Spamming the Rune of Disguise -
- The beastmen are an illusion
- Shame, because it breaks the Rule of Pride, but in line with the radical runesmithing we know was happening.
- Shame because they are hiding and not fighting
- Alliance with Elves -
- possibility one - the beastmen are an illusion
- possibility two - Morghur enslaved
- this one is more likely then the other morghur enslaved theory because we know a elf-dwarf partnership might make this possible.
- Going by Borek's example, the Karag Dum dwarfs might be more capable of realpolitik, to levels Belger hasn't reached yet, but it would still cause them shame.
Guile
Having a really great time right now
Is that to become the Dwarvish Nagash, or to be bigger than Nagash?
Either way, I would like to subscribe to Radical Mathilde's Radical Plan
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Because it is not "definitely a beastman". It could absolutely be a disguised runepriest. And whatever it is, the scenario fundamentally does not make sense for both the facts we know of and "it will attack us for engaging dialogue" to be true.
I feel like I'm play Phoenix Wright over here, yelling "objection" because the crucial facts do not fit the "obvious" narrative.
Kudos to you for making a good logic puzzle though, Boney.
- Location
- Greece
... I am confuse
What is the problem with a nonchaos beastman then? Predujice?
- Pronouns
- It/They
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum is fallen, and has made a pact with Morghur.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum has somehow tricked or compelled Morghur to fight the Kurgan tribes.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum has turned to forbidden arts, and Borek left in shame.
[X] ACTION: Turn back
Only smart option.
Somethings are just better left unfucked with.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum has somehow tricked or compelled Morghur to fight the Kurgan tribes.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum has turned to forbidden arts, and Borek left in shame.
[X] ACTION: Turn back
Only smart option.
Somethings are just better left unfucked with.
- Location
- Earth
Er... maybe reread my statement?
I said that two actions can be the same in the eyes of the Karaz Ankor even if they're not the same action. How you're getting anything about Borek falling to Chaos from my quote confuses me. As an example, necromancy and treason both result in executions even if they're different actions. My position, and that of the leading theory in the vote tally, was that KD may have done something that the Karaz Ankor would consider at an equal level to falling to Chaos.
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Guile
Having a really great time right now
Two shadowsteeds.Mathilde, riding her Shadowsteed like a skateboard.
Artist's rendering of Radical Mathilde:
Sovereign Hunt
A Concentric Circle
- Location
- Bereft of Name
Gods there are so many conflicting vote options it's hilarious.
[X] Omegahugger
[x] THEORY: That's not Morghur. Morghur constantly changes his surroundings, Morghur does not make reality more stable near himself, Morghur does not display affection, Morghur does not not attack people, Morghur would never stay here unless he was bound, and if he was bound he'd be struggling constantly to get out. The shuddering of reality can be faked by Runesmiths if they wanted.
[x] ACTION: We need to verify if the situation here is stable, or if it's something that will come back to haunt the Karaz Ankor and Empire if left ignored.
[x] THEORY: Karag Dum worked with the elves to replace a section of reality with the warp, which they use to forcibly tame Cor-Dum and a herd of beastmen to use as protection against Chaos.
[x] Redshirt Army
[x] ACTION: Politely ask Morghur to be granted entrance into Karak Dum.
[x] THEORY: Morghur was reborn as a dwarf and at least partially protected by the Valayan rites, subsequently those protections were relaxed to allow him to mutate physically while retaining self-control and his dwarven identity.
[x] ACTION: Persuade the Expedition to stay put for a day while you sneak to the gates of the Karak and try to have a chat about it.
[x] THEORY: There's some sort of strange illusion magic going on, and it's not visible even to extremely good mage sight. Out of all known sources of magic only Dawi Runes are capable of that - so the works of Dawi Runesmiths are still in use.
[x] Action: Pray for guidance. In this realm reality is more malleable, perhaps our gods will be able to reach us more easily here.
[x] THEORY: The Dwarfs have control over Cor-Dum and is likely being controlled by Karak Dum's King or Leader, They are doing this to protect Dum and keep Chaos from getting hold of it, there is an ongoing siege to break this defense with a nearby source providing power to the desert to weaken the defenders.
[x] Theory: The Dwarfs have control over Cor-Dum and is likely being controlled by Karak Dum's King or Leader, They are doing this to protect the Waystone and keep the Karak Ankor safe, there is an ongoing siege to take control of the waystone with a nearby source providing power to the desert to weaken the defenders.
[x] Action: Look for the source of the desert.
[x] THEORY: That's not Morghur. Morghur constantly changes his surroundings, Morghur does not make reality more stable near himself, Morghur does not display affection, Morghur would never stay here unless he was bound, and if he was bound he'd be struggling constantly to get out. The shuddering of reality can be faked by Runesmiths if they wanted.
[x] ACTION: Demand the Runesmith in the Morghur Fursuit presents Borek so you can scream at him for not mentioning he was taking you to the Capital of Dwarven Illusion Craft. You would have brought more ink and paper.
[x] THEORY: Mathilde is confused. Greys can admit to themselves that they're confused. Just don't show it.
[x] ACTION: The cure for confusion is curiosity, and there are two other fronts attacking Dum. The rest of the Expedition should pull clear for now, though. You can catch up.
[x] THEORY: The dwarves of Karag Dum are alive and uncorrupted by Chaos, but have resorted to truly drastic measures to survive, probably undertaken by their controversial "Rune Masters", which involves having these beastmen or beastmen-appearing creatures defending the karak for the dwarves. We can assume that this is all in favour of the dwarves by Morghur's easy acceptance and non-destruction of Borek as well as Borek's mutual acceptance of the beastman. The idea of Rune Masters being critically involved is the certainty that some form of magic was used to create this whole situation, including the odd weather, and the Rune Masters' lack of corruption is supported by the lesser level of ambient dark magic in the area, even directly around Morghur himself.
[x] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
[x] THEORY: Omegahugger
[x] THEORY: Things are not what they appear as at the first look. Nothing Mathilde knows allows for what they are witnessing to be the reality.
[x] [Action] Scout the other fronts, ask other expedition members for what they might have happened, check with the other wizards what their expertise tell them about the magical and natural environments.
[x] [Theory] All we know is that it is friendly and non chaotic. That is enough for now.
[x] [Action] wait nearby and observe. It shouldn't be nearly as dangerous as it seems, and that allows us to gather additional clues.
[x] ACTION: Attempt to contact the nearby Kurgan tribes for information.
[x] ACTION: Attempt closer examination of Morghur, the beastmen, and the forest.
[x] ACTION: Investigate further.
[x] ACTION: Gain more information.
[x] THEORY: Neither Morghur nor beastmen are what they appear to be - they are instead dwarfs of Karag Dum, who changed bodies through principles they knew but still kept their souls and minds intact. The reason for that was the need for new bodies that could survive fighting in the Wastes. "Morghur" is a member of the Royal Clan or a Runemaster that knew Borek personally, which why he made such an intimate gesture. It is possible that not all dwarfs suffered such fate, if that is the fate they suffered. Borek knew of such plan, but found it shameful and thus fell into despair when he saw it done.
[x] ACTION: Expedition: Digs in; Mathilde: Investigates
[x] ACTION: Infiltrate Karag Dum to gather information.
[x] Action - Call out to Dun for a parley.
[x] THEORY: Physical signs point to Morghur having been holding the area against nomad raiders for a very long time, and history implies that he's not been seen in the old world since approximately when Karag Dum would have come under attack during the Great War against Chaos. He's been here this whole time.
[x] THEORY: Magical signs and, less reliably, intuition about Borek, point to there being something uncorrupted in that mountain in the middle.
[x] THEORY: Theory continued: Borek expected Morghur, Morghur favors Borek, Borek isn't chaos-aligned(he had the chance to prevent us from acting on Vlag, but he didn't, and was, in fact, happy about the result). Obvious conclusion, Morghur is aligned with Borek in some way apart from alignment to chaos.
[x] THEORY: Less obvious conclusion: Morghur is aligned with Karag Dum because he was a dwarf. That is to say, the first incarnation of Morghur was born a dwarf, far longer ago than merely 300 years ago. And Dwarf souls that never have the rites to send them to the underearth are ejected from the aether, and reincarnated into new bodies to live another life, over and over again. Just like Morghur is supposed to be.
[x] ACTION: Dig up some of those bones to confirm how they died.
[x] THEORY: Gor Dum is either a mutated dwarf or controlled by a dwarf, look at how he reacted to Borek.
[x] THEORY: Whatever the hell is happening, Borek seemed to still care for what Karaz Ankor thought of him and that what we are seeing is the result of his home trying their best to fufill their duties in ways the rest of dwarves probably wouldn't approve. The Corrupter seemed to recognise Borek as almost kin and hasn't made a move against us. I think some very careful investigation is warranted.
[x] ACTION: First, before any council shout at Borek that he owes us some anwsers before he leaves and that we are ready to hear him despite whatever is happening here. If it doesn't work. Send a volunteer to try and enter the forest as Borek did : 1. If the volunter is attacked or mutates turn back. 2. If the volunter is denied access but doesn't mutate or get attacked, try to ask an audience somehow : ask to the beastmen, scream to the forest, creative solutions. If no anwser, turn back. 3. If the volunter is let though unharmed, have him come back do go investigate ourselves.
[x] THEORY: When Karak Dum warned the others about Chaos, the other holds instead chose to freak out about the elven army that had just landed upon the shores of the old world. The elves were later revealed to have been chasing Cor-Dum. What if K-Dum tried to remove C-Dum so the elves would go away and the dwarves could send reinforcments up north. However, they bound the demigod to their waystone instead—possibly by accident, possibly on purpose, definitly with forbidden knowledge. They weren't able to prevent the great war in time, so they chose to double down and make Cor-Dum their protector.
[x] ACTION: Mathilde will infiltrate the hold and look for more answers. In the mean time the convoy should circle the Steam-Wagons and avoid provoking a fight they can't win. If she has not returned within 24 hours they should turn back and attempt to make their way back to civilisation to inform the Karaz Ankor, Empire and Kislev what they found.
[x] Action - Approach Cor Dum
[x] THEORY: Through either Pact, Binding or some other venue the dwarfs of Karag Dum have installed Morghur as some form of defensive guardian, supported by the fact that Morghur is treating the mountain as a giant herdstone while to my vision it is not. The confounding factor here is that the energy flowing out of Karag Dum is uncorrupted. Morghur himself would almost certainly be using it for his own ends, so it means the occupants of the hold either don't know how to use it, don't care to use it or still consider themselves part of the Karaz Ankor enough that they let the energy flow uninterrupted.
[x] ACTION: We need information. The Yusak have been in this area for long enough, they must know something of what happened. The wagons will pull back to their territory, and while they are en-route I will attempt to directly ask Morghur (From a distance, using a spell) what has become of Karag Dum. If the worst comes to worst we will already be retreating and I will be fast enough to catch up. We will figure out our further course of action once we know more.
[X] Omegahugger
[x] THEORY: That's not Morghur. Morghur constantly changes his surroundings, Morghur does not make reality more stable near himself, Morghur does not display affection, Morghur does not not attack people, Morghur would never stay here unless he was bound, and if he was bound he'd be struggling constantly to get out. The shuddering of reality can be faked by Runesmiths if they wanted.
[x] ACTION: We need to verify if the situation here is stable, or if it's something that will come back to haunt the Karaz Ankor and Empire if left ignored.
[x] THEORY: Karag Dum worked with the elves to replace a section of reality with the warp, which they use to forcibly tame Cor-Dum and a herd of beastmen to use as protection against Chaos.
[x] Redshirt Army
[x] ACTION: Politely ask Morghur to be granted entrance into Karak Dum.
[x] THEORY: Morghur was reborn as a dwarf and at least partially protected by the Valayan rites, subsequently those protections were relaxed to allow him to mutate physically while retaining self-control and his dwarven identity.
[x] ACTION: Persuade the Expedition to stay put for a day while you sneak to the gates of the Karak and try to have a chat about it.
[x] THEORY: There's some sort of strange illusion magic going on, and it's not visible even to extremely good mage sight. Out of all known sources of magic only Dawi Runes are capable of that - so the works of Dawi Runesmiths are still in use.
[x] Action: Pray for guidance. In this realm reality is more malleable, perhaps our gods will be able to reach us more easily here.
[x] THEORY: The Dwarfs have control over Cor-Dum and is likely being controlled by Karak Dum's King or Leader, They are doing this to protect Dum and keep Chaos from getting hold of it, there is an ongoing siege to break this defense with a nearby source providing power to the desert to weaken the defenders.
[x] Theory: The Dwarfs have control over Cor-Dum and is likely being controlled by Karak Dum's King or Leader, They are doing this to protect the Waystone and keep the Karak Ankor safe, there is an ongoing siege to take control of the waystone with a nearby source providing power to the desert to weaken the defenders.
[x] Action: Look for the source of the desert.
[x] THEORY: That's not Morghur. Morghur constantly changes his surroundings, Morghur does not make reality more stable near himself, Morghur does not display affection, Morghur would never stay here unless he was bound, and if he was bound he'd be struggling constantly to get out. The shuddering of reality can be faked by Runesmiths if they wanted.
[x] ACTION: Demand the Runesmith in the Morghur Fursuit presents Borek so you can scream at him for not mentioning he was taking you to the Capital of Dwarven Illusion Craft. You would have brought more ink and paper.
[x] THEORY: Mathilde is confused. Greys can admit to themselves that they're confused. Just don't show it.
[x] ACTION: The cure for confusion is curiosity, and there are two other fronts attacking Dum. The rest of the Expedition should pull clear for now, though. You can catch up.
[x] THEORY: The dwarves of Karag Dum are alive and uncorrupted by Chaos, but have resorted to truly drastic measures to survive, probably undertaken by their controversial "Rune Masters", which involves having these beastmen or beastmen-appearing creatures defending the karak for the dwarves. We can assume that this is all in favour of the dwarves by Morghur's easy acceptance and non-destruction of Borek as well as Borek's mutual acceptance of the beastman. The idea of Rune Masters being critically involved is the certainty that some form of magic was used to create this whole situation, including the odd weather, and the Rune Masters' lack of corruption is supported by the lesser level of ambient dark magic in the area, even directly around Morghur himself.
[x] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
[x] THEORY: Omegahugger
[x] THEORY: Things are not what they appear as at the first look. Nothing Mathilde knows allows for what they are witnessing to be the reality.
[x] [Action] Scout the other fronts, ask other expedition members for what they might have happened, check with the other wizards what their expertise tell them about the magical and natural environments.
[x] [Theory] All we know is that it is friendly and non chaotic. That is enough for now.
[x] [Action] wait nearby and observe. It shouldn't be nearly as dangerous as it seems, and that allows us to gather additional clues.
[x] ACTION: Attempt to contact the nearby Kurgan tribes for information.
[x] ACTION: Attempt closer examination of Morghur, the beastmen, and the forest.
[x] ACTION: Investigate further.
[x] ACTION: Gain more information.
[x] THEORY: Neither Morghur nor beastmen are what they appear to be - they are instead dwarfs of Karag Dum, who changed bodies through principles they knew but still kept their souls and minds intact. The reason for that was the need for new bodies that could survive fighting in the Wastes. "Morghur" is a member of the Royal Clan or a Runemaster that knew Borek personally, which why he made such an intimate gesture. It is possible that not all dwarfs suffered such fate, if that is the fate they suffered. Borek knew of such plan, but found it shameful and thus fell into despair when he saw it done.
[x] ACTION: Expedition: Digs in; Mathilde: Investigates
[x] ACTION: Infiltrate Karag Dum to gather information.
[x] Action - Call out to Dun for a parley.
[x] THEORY: Physical signs point to Morghur having been holding the area against nomad raiders for a very long time, and history implies that he's not been seen in the old world since approximately when Karag Dum would have come under attack during the Great War against Chaos. He's been here this whole time.
[x] THEORY: Magical signs and, less reliably, intuition about Borek, point to there being something uncorrupted in that mountain in the middle.
[x] THEORY: Theory continued: Borek expected Morghur, Morghur favors Borek, Borek isn't chaos-aligned(he had the chance to prevent us from acting on Vlag, but he didn't, and was, in fact, happy about the result). Obvious conclusion, Morghur is aligned with Borek in some way apart from alignment to chaos.
[x] THEORY: Less obvious conclusion: Morghur is aligned with Karag Dum because he was a dwarf. That is to say, the first incarnation of Morghur was born a dwarf, far longer ago than merely 300 years ago. And Dwarf souls that never have the rites to send them to the underearth are ejected from the aether, and reincarnated into new bodies to live another life, over and over again. Just like Morghur is supposed to be.
[x] ACTION: Dig up some of those bones to confirm how they died.
[x] THEORY: Gor Dum is either a mutated dwarf or controlled by a dwarf, look at how he reacted to Borek.
[x] THEORY: Whatever the hell is happening, Borek seemed to still care for what Karaz Ankor thought of him and that what we are seeing is the result of his home trying their best to fufill their duties in ways the rest of dwarves probably wouldn't approve. The Corrupter seemed to recognise Borek as almost kin and hasn't made a move against us. I think some very careful investigation is warranted.
[x] ACTION: First, before any council shout at Borek that he owes us some anwsers before he leaves and that we are ready to hear him despite whatever is happening here. If it doesn't work. Send a volunteer to try and enter the forest as Borek did : 1. If the volunter is attacked or mutates turn back. 2. If the volunter is denied access but doesn't mutate or get attacked, try to ask an audience somehow : ask to the beastmen, scream to the forest, creative solutions. If no anwser, turn back. 3. If the volunter is let though unharmed, have him come back do go investigate ourselves.
[x] THEORY: When Karak Dum warned the others about Chaos, the other holds instead chose to freak out about the elven army that had just landed upon the shores of the old world. The elves were later revealed to have been chasing Cor-Dum. What if K-Dum tried to remove C-Dum so the elves would go away and the dwarves could send reinforcments up north. However, they bound the demigod to their waystone instead—possibly by accident, possibly on purpose, definitly with forbidden knowledge. They weren't able to prevent the great war in time, so they chose to double down and make Cor-Dum their protector.
[x] ACTION: Mathilde will infiltrate the hold and look for more answers. In the mean time the convoy should circle the Steam-Wagons and avoid provoking a fight they can't win. If she has not returned within 24 hours they should turn back and attempt to make their way back to civilisation to inform the Karaz Ankor, Empire and Kislev what they found.
[x] Action - Approach Cor Dum
[x] THEORY: Through either Pact, Binding or some other venue the dwarfs of Karag Dum have installed Morghur as some form of defensive guardian, supported by the fact that Morghur is treating the mountain as a giant herdstone while to my vision it is not. The confounding factor here is that the energy flowing out of Karag Dum is uncorrupted. Morghur himself would almost certainly be using it for his own ends, so it means the occupants of the hold either don't know how to use it, don't care to use it or still consider themselves part of the Karaz Ankor enough that they let the energy flow uninterrupted.
[x] ACTION: We need information. The Yusak have been in this area for long enough, they must know something of what happened. The wagons will pull back to their territory, and while they are en-route I will attempt to directly ask Morghur (From a distance, using a spell) what has become of Karag Dum. If the worst comes to worst we will already be retreating and I will be fast enough to catch up. We will figure out our further course of action once we know more.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Okay sure, but even it that's the case it cannot be true that "Morghur" will attack Mathilde for engaging dialogue, with the facts of the case being as they are.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
borek is morghur's little pogchamp
The runepriest aura that behaves completely differently using the magic they aren't known to have.
The fact that as far as we know there is no such thing. If your theory requires the existence of previously unknown classes of beings that look very like the cannibalistic monsters as old as civilization it's going to require some very extraordinary proof and I don't think it's worth risking Mathilde's life looking for such.
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- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Boney said that the effect could be accomplished by a runesmith.
- Location
- New England, State of Confusion
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[x] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
[X] ACTION: Gain more information.
[X] ACTION: Gain more information.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
It's a definite "maybe."
Also, for those wondering where Morghur's corruptive aura is: it has seeped through the Internet into the thread, obviously.
[x] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
[x] ACTION: Gain more information.
[x] ACTION: Gain more information.
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
In the end, it doesn't even matter what happened to Dum. It doesn't matter if it's reversible. The end result is still "Karag Dum is isolated in the wastes too far from anyone to matter, fighting Chaos raiders."
"Karag Dum is lost beyond recovery" was always a valid outcome of the expedition. This doesn't mean we've failed, it just means that success isn't very enjoyable.
"Karag Dum is lost beyond recovery" was always a valid outcome of the expedition. This doesn't mean we've failed, it just means that success isn't very enjoyable.