'Here lies Mathilde Weber, killed by an excess of curiosity.'
Guess all those cat jokes were more on the nose than I thought.
Guess all those cat jokes were more on the nose than I thought.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
[X] THEORY: Gor Dum is either a mutated dwarf or controlled by a dwarf, look at how he reacted to Borek.
[X] THEORY: Whatever the hell is happening, Borek seemed to still care for what Karaz Ankor thought of him and that what we are seeing is the result of his home trying their best to fufill their duties in ways the rest of dwarves probably wouldn't approve. The Corrupter seemed to recognise Borek as kin and hasn't made a move against us. I think some very careful investigation is warranted.
[X] ACTION: First, before any council is held, shout at Borek that he owes us some anwsers before he leaves and that we are ready to hear him despite whatever is happening here. If it doesn't work. Send a volunteer to try and enter the forest as Borek did : 1. If the volunteer is attacked or mutates, turn back. 2. If the volunteer is denied access but doesn't mutate or get attacked, try to ask an audience somehow : ask to the beastmen, scream to the forest, creative solutions. If no anwser, turn back. 3. If the volunteer is let though unharmed, have him come back do go investigate ourselves.
[X] THEORY: Whatever the hell is happening, Borek seemed to still care for what Karaz Ankor thought of him and that what we are seeing is the result of his home trying their best to fufill their duties in ways the rest of dwarves probably wouldn't approve. The Corrupter seemed to recognise Borek as kin and hasn't made a move against us. I think some very careful investigation is warranted.
[X] ACTION: First, before any council is held, shout at Borek that he owes us some anwsers before he leaves and that we are ready to hear him despite whatever is happening here. If it doesn't work. Send a volunteer to try and enter the forest as Borek did : 1. If the volunteer is attacked or mutates, turn back. 2. If the volunteer is denied access but doesn't mutate or get attacked, try to ask an audience somehow : ask to the beastmen, scream to the forest, creative solutions. If no anwser, turn back. 3. If the volunteer is let though unharmed, have him come back do go investigate ourselves.
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- Location
- Earth
Hey guys, remember those Plotter demons? From Karag Vlag?
[X] THEORY: Plotter Demons came out of the rift at Karag Vlag and they found and burned our cashes in front of us. We've seen neither hide nor hair of them since. I think this might be them. I've reason to believe, from my investigations around Karag Vlag, that Karag Dum, at least at its core, is still standing, and uncorrupted. Or at least, not fully corrupted. This may not be Morghur, but rather a Lord of Change or other Greater Demon of the Plotter, pretending to be him to send us away. I think the Karag may still stand, in some form, either fighting on or as a trap/test for those who come here. The shimmer and shift as Borek went certainly seems to indicate some kind of magical effect, either rune, or more likely, Sorcery or Illusion.
[X] ACTION: Very careful scouting. Both by the knights, dwarves and Mathilde. Starting with inanimate matter and other disposable stuff(like the cows) to determine where the edges-borders of the effect are and just what the hell the effect is without entering it, while the convoy digs in and readies itself to attack, from behind or from the Karag. If that doesn't lead to some clarity, more aggressive scouting may be needed. Either way, Karag Dum is still a part of the Karak Ankor, and there are ways that link them could be used by demons to hurt the whole realm, especially now that Vlag is back and the links reestablished. So while a part of me might prefer as the wise option to turn back, we cannot leave such a threat without establishing its exact nature, if only so I can bring back news of what to do to about it to King Belegar and the High King.
[X] THEORY: Plotter Demons came out of the rift at Karag Vlag and they found and burned our cashes in front of us. We've seen neither hide nor hair of them since. I think this might be them. I've reason to believe, from my investigations around Karag Vlag, that Karag Dum, at least at its core, is still standing, and uncorrupted. Or at least, not fully corrupted. This may not be Morghur, but rather a Lord of Change or other Greater Demon of the Plotter, pretending to be him to send us away. I think the Karag may still stand, in some form, either fighting on or as a trap/test for those who come here. The shimmer and shift as Borek went certainly seems to indicate some kind of magical effect, either rune, or more likely, Sorcery or Illusion.
[X] ACTION: Very careful scouting. Both by the knights, dwarves and Mathilde. Starting with inanimate matter and other disposable stuff(like the cows) to determine where the edges-borders of the effect are and just what the hell the effect is without entering it, while the convoy digs in and readies itself to attack, from behind or from the Karag. If that doesn't lead to some clarity, more aggressive scouting may be needed. Either way, Karag Dum is still a part of the Karak Ankor, and there are ways that link them could be used by demons to hurt the whole realm, especially now that Vlag is back and the links reestablished. So while a part of me might prefer as the wise option to turn back, we cannot leave such a threat without establishing its exact nature, if only so I can bring back news of what to do to about it to King Belegar and the High King.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I think we are absolutely that good an infiltrator.
Also. Everyone who is voting to ask the tribes how long Cor-Dum has been there should remember what the Yasuk Shaman said. "Dum is as it has always been."
We are in the wastes proper and time is bendable. I don't think they remember a time when Cor-Dum wasn't there.
[X] THEORY: Neither Morghur nor beastmen are what they appear to be - they are instead dwarfs of Karag Dum, who changed bodies through principles they knew but still kept their souls and minds intact. The reason for that was the need for new bodies that could survive fighting in the Wastes. "Morghur" is a member of the Royal Clan or a Runemaster that knew Borek personally, which why he made such an intimate gesture. It is possible that not all dwarfs suffered such fate, if that is the fate they suffered. Borek knew of such plan, but found it shameful and thus fell into despair when he saw it done.
[X] ACTION: The expedition was sent here to establish the fate of Karag Dum, and that fate is still not certain beyond doubt - and I know secrets that suggest it might still be on the side of sane. I do not want to leave the work half done, we do not seem to be in immediate danger and still have supplies. I suggest striking camp and securing it, while I ascertain whether these "beastmen" are indeed what they are.
@BoneyM
For Action, do you prefer a format of IC-suggestion, or something more short and clear (i.e. Mathilde: Scout the forest, Expedition: Dig in)?
[X] ACTION: The expedition was sent here to establish the fate of Karag Dum, and that fate is still not certain beyond doubt - and I know secrets that suggest it might still be on the side of sane. I do not want to leave the work half done, we do not seem to be in immediate danger and still have supplies. I suggest striking camp and securing it, while I ascertain whether these "beastmen" are indeed what they are.
@BoneyM
For Action, do you prefer a format of IC-suggestion, or something more short and clear (i.e. Mathilde: Scout the forest, Expedition: Dig in)?
The Changeling is the name of a shapeshifting Tzeentchian demon who can disguise itself as whoever it wants. It once triggered a war between Nurgle and Slaanesh by disguising itself as a demonette, stealing fruit from one of Slaanesh's gardens and dumping it in Nurgles garden. Neither god realised they were played by Tzeentch. It's a common conspiracy theory to blame unusual behaviour as the Changeling in disguise and fucking things up.
- Location
- Toronto, Ontario(occasionally)
WinterLantern
Smoked bird
- Location
- North England
[X] Action - Approach Cor Dum
His warping effect isn't affecting the area around him, it is not really Morghur. Borek was allowed to pass in on his own because the group watching on the other side of the illusion recognise him as a friend.
Approach alone at first to see if they recognise us as coming with him as friendly.
His warping effect isn't affecting the area around him, it is not really Morghur. Borek was allowed to pass in on his own because the group watching on the other side of the illusion recognise him as a friend.
Approach alone at first to see if they recognise us as coming with him as friendly.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
By Line voting won't recognise anything that comes after a line or paragraph break.
- Location
- Earth
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum has somehow tricked or compelled Morghur to fight the Kurgan tribes.
[X] ACTION: Dig up some of those bones to confirm how they died.
[X] ACTION: Turn back
[] ACTION: Investigate further.
[] ACTION: Gain more information.
[] ACTION: Attempt to contact the nearby Kurgan tribes for information.
[] ACTION: Attempt closer examination of Morghur, the beastmen, and the forest.
[X] ACTION: ask Ljiljana if the artifact is with the beastmen or within the Karag
[] [Action] Scout the other fronts, ask other expedition members for what they might have happened, check with the other wizards what their expertise tell them about the magical and natural environments.
[X] ACTION: Dig up some of those bones to confirm how they died.
[X] ACTION: Turn back
[] ACTION: Investigate further.
[] ACTION: Gain more information.
[] ACTION: Attempt to contact the nearby Kurgan tribes for information.
[] ACTION: Attempt closer examination of Morghur, the beastmen, and the forest.
[X] ACTION: ask Ljiljana if the artifact is with the beastmen or within the Karag
[] [Action] Scout the other fronts, ask other expedition members for what they might have happened, check with the other wizards what their expertise tell them about the magical and natural environments.
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- Location
- Norway
You need [X] in front of the main line and -[X] in front of subsequent lines. Or everything on the [X] line.
- Location
- London
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum is fallen, and has made a pact with Morghur.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum has somehow tricked or compelled Morghur to fight the Kurgan tribes.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum has turned to forbidden arts, and Borek left in shame.
[X] ACTION: Turn back
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum has somehow tricked or compelled Morghur to fight the Kurgan tribes.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum has turned to forbidden arts, and Borek left in shame.
[X] ACTION: Turn back
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
Some of the Herdstones are literally corrupted waystones.
In lighter news! I commissioned Mathilde with dawi style braids/plats and some extra winter gear before this update went live.
This is amazing and I love it.
I can work with either.
If you've got a really chonky theory, you can call it 'guyfromtheplace1's theory' or say 'summary: words words words' and I can go to the original for more details if it's near the top when voting closes.
[ ] Action - Call out to Dum for a parley.
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SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Yes and they are corrupted in the sense they draw the winds in and make a pool of dhar around themselves what they aren't is tied into the geomantic web/ waystone network and pushing dhar through the pipes.
I'm still catching up, but my initial thought is that they're obviously bound. I don't think Dwarfs would turn themselves into beastmen to survive the ambient Dhar exposure - change, sure, but I doubt you'd end up with clones of beastmen.
Now, consider, what's the #1 problem almost every Dwarf hold has? Population.
What's a major contributing factor to birthrates for Dwarfs? Hope.
Can you imagine a more bleak situation than holding out in the midst of the Chaos Wastes?
Beastmen though? You can create a ready supply of Beastmen by staking livestock to the ground outside and leaving them to bake. If the Runesmiths found a way to bind or compel Beastmen, it might have become tenable for them to create them intentionally, and then bind them so as to save the lives of the nearly irreplaceable Dwarfs inside the hold.
It doesn't explain our friend Cor-Dum, but so far I'm personally most fond of the idea that he was killed and reborn to a Dwarfen mother and then they did... something. It would fit well with the idea that traditional runic protections and knowledge just aren't cutting it this far north. Studying him probably set them down this path to begin with? Or, he tends to be reborn in areas that already have Beastmen, so they wound up with a little Cor-Dum because they already had an artificial Beastman concentration?
The regular mook Beastmen almost certainly aren't Dwarfs though. They'd be wearing high quality armor with high quality weapons if they were. Even if they turned themselves into Beastmen, it probably wouldn't have solved the population problem to such a degree that they could afford to spend lives so easily - sending out people in ragged armor to hold the line; just doesn't make sense.
Now, consider, what's the #1 problem almost every Dwarf hold has? Population.
What's a major contributing factor to birthrates for Dwarfs? Hope.
Can you imagine a more bleak situation than holding out in the midst of the Chaos Wastes?
Beastmen though? You can create a ready supply of Beastmen by staking livestock to the ground outside and leaving them to bake. If the Runesmiths found a way to bind or compel Beastmen, it might have become tenable for them to create them intentionally, and then bind them so as to save the lives of the nearly irreplaceable Dwarfs inside the hold.
It doesn't explain our friend Cor-Dum, but so far I'm personally most fond of the idea that he was killed and reborn to a Dwarfen mother and then they did... something. It would fit well with the idea that traditional runic protections and knowledge just aren't cutting it this far north. Studying him probably set them down this path to begin with? Or, he tends to be reborn in areas that already have Beastmen, so they wound up with a little Cor-Dum because they already had an artificial Beastman concentration?
The regular mook Beastmen almost certainly aren't Dwarfs though. They'd be wearing high quality armor with high quality weapons if they were. Even if they turned themselves into Beastmen, it probably wouldn't have solved the population problem to such a degree that they could afford to spend lives so easily - sending out people in ragged armor to hold the line; just doesn't make sense.
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- Location
- Toronto, Ontario(occasionally)
I don't get it.
Does this work?
[X] THEORY: The crater and missing mountains are due to Morghur translocating or teleporting here.
-[X] THEORY: Physical signs point to Morghur having been holding the area against nomad raiders for a very long time, and history implies that he's not been seen in the old world since approximately when Karag Dum would have come under attack during the Great War against Chaos. He's been here this whole time.
-[X] THEORY: Magical signs and, less reliably, intuition about Borek, point to there being something uncorrupted in that mountain in the middle.
-[X] THEORY: Theory continued: Borek expected Morghur, Morghur favors Borek, Borek isn't chaos-aligned(he had the chance to prevent us from acting on Vlag, but he didn't, and was, in fact, happy about the result). Obvious conclusion, Morghur is aligned with Borek in some way apart from alignment to chaos.
-[X] THEORY: Less obvious conclusion: Morghur is aligned with Karag -Dum because he was a dwarf. That is to say, the first incarnation of Morghur was born a dwarf, far longer ago than merely 300 years ago. And Dwarf souls that never have the rites to send them to the underearth are ejected from the aether, and reincarnated into new bodies to live another life, over and over again. Just like Morghur is supposed to be.
-[X] THEORY: Morghur was originally a secret shame of Karag Dum, his first incarnation was a dwarf that went into the chaos wastes and was changed into what he is now. Possibly someone who followed Grimnir, then had the shame of coming back alive/having his soul corrupted by chaos down to the core so as to cause disaster when reborn, possibly someone else important to Karag Dum's history, important enough to remember rather than burying or forgetting to dull the shame.
-[X] THEORY: They have formed a pact with Morghur to defend them and probably isolate them from everything outside, but it is still uncertain whether they've actually fallen into corruption, maybe chaos dwarves now, maybe not.
[X] ACTION: either feign retreat while we secretly return to scout out the situation, or fort up while we scout out the situation. Scout to determine whether there are actually dwarves on the inside, whether they've gone over to chaos, and whether they would actually want to leave.
-[X] ACTION: Ask the local tribes to get confirmation of how long Cor-Dum has been here, and a story of how he arrived. Maybe send some Winter Wolves and Hubert(or just Hubert)somewhere to ask, Hubert knows Khazalid right? Or maybe send Johann?
- Location
- Migrating back North
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum seems to be magically connected to somewhere else. Somewhere similar to Athel Loren?
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum may have found a way to create and control beastmen.
[X] THEORY: Morghur may be the result of forbidden experimentation involving living beings.
[X] ACTION: Enlist Journeyman Cyrston's help in identifying flora.
[X] ACTION: Look for signs of magic portals or runic arrays.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum may have found a way to create and control beastmen.
[X] THEORY: Morghur may be the result of forbidden experimentation involving living beings.
[X] ACTION: Enlist Journeyman Cyrston's help in identifying flora.
[X] ACTION: Look for signs of magic portals or runic arrays.
- Location
- Argentina
The relatively normal forest also implies a lack of beastmen corruption.
Boney is the kind of people to mess with us and make this all a Wood Elf thing. It also explains the shame, the uncorrupted wayatone, the affection, and how we are going to get killed if we tell anyone about this because that's the reason Dum didn' fall.
They just pretend to be under beastmen siege
Boney is the kind of people to mess with us and make this all a Wood Elf thing. It also explains the shame, the uncorrupted wayatone, the affection, and how we are going to get killed if we tell anyone about this because that's the reason Dum didn' fall.
They just pretend to be under beastmen siege
It's still a mountain from above.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
it doesn't remotely explain the shame, Borek was willing to work with Asarnil, and there's no explanation for why the wood elves would ever work with Dwarves?
Nor does it explain the fact that the Tribes are constantly waging war on Morghur and the beastmen there, why would the wood elves sacrifice their lives to protect Dum?
The theory that Morghur has been tricked into working for Karag Dum seems a bit off. Why would Borek be all hugs and kisses (it was the dwarf version of family gestures) with him if that was the case?
If Borek was aware that Morghur had been bound it would explain his secrecy and acceptance but not the familiarity. I'd expect an attempt at avoiding him at least. An illusion of some sort seems more likely.
If Karag Dum had fallen then I'd expect Borek to at least attempt to stick an axe in Morghur so that seems unlikely too.
Well there's definitely illusions going on here somewhere. Borek definitely wouldn't let Morghur just touch him.
As for what we do now, I'd say get everyone prepared to run away while doing our best to dig up some information. We can ask the nearby tribes for information, dig up bones, ask fellow wizards about the forest, fire some cannons into the forest and if we're super crazy actually have someone enter the place.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum is under an illusion.
[X] ACTION: Gain more information.
[X] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
[X] THEORY: Things are not what they appear as at the first look. Nothing Mathilde knows allows for what they are witnessing to be the reality.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum is using a fake Morghur to make the real beastmen fight for them.
[X] ACTION: The forces should move back at least a half-days distance, find a defensible spot, and camp out for a few days to give them a chance to investigate, but no more than two-three days, the overall safety of the expedition still comes first.
[X] [Action] wait nearby and observe. It shouldn't be nearly as dangerous as it seems, and that allows us to gather additional clues.
[x] ACTION: Investigate further.
[X] THEORY: That's not Morghur. Morghur constantly changes his surroundings, Morghur does not make reality more stable near himself, Morghur does not display affection, Morghur does not not attack people, Morghur would never stay here unless he was bound, and if he was bound he'd be struggling constantly to get out. The shuddering of reality can be faked by Runesmiths if they wanted.
[X] THEORY: There's some sort of strange illusion magic going on, and it's not visible even to extremely good mage sight. Out of all known sources of magic only Dawi Runes are capable of that - so the works of Dawi Runesmiths are still in use.
If Borek was aware that Morghur had been bound it would explain his secrecy and acceptance but not the familiarity. I'd expect an attempt at avoiding him at least. An illusion of some sort seems more likely.
If Karag Dum had fallen then I'd expect Borek to at least attempt to stick an axe in Morghur so that seems unlikely too.
Well there's definitely illusions going on here somewhere. Borek definitely wouldn't let Morghur just touch him.
As for what we do now, I'd say get everyone prepared to run away while doing our best to dig up some information. We can ask the nearby tribes for information, dig up bones, ask fellow wizards about the forest, fire some cannons into the forest and if we're super crazy actually have someone enter the place.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum is under an illusion.
[X] ACTION: Gain more information.
[X] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
[X] THEORY: Things are not what they appear as at the first look. Nothing Mathilde knows allows for what they are witnessing to be the reality.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum is using a fake Morghur to make the real beastmen fight for them.
[X] ACTION: The forces should move back at least a half-days distance, find a defensible spot, and camp out for a few days to give them a chance to investigate, but no more than two-three days, the overall safety of the expedition still comes first.
[X] [Action] wait nearby and observe. It shouldn't be nearly as dangerous as it seems, and that allows us to gather additional clues.
[x] ACTION: Investigate further.
[X] THEORY: That's not Morghur. Morghur constantly changes his surroundings, Morghur does not make reality more stable near himself, Morghur does not display affection, Morghur does not not attack people, Morghur would never stay here unless he was bound, and if he was bound he'd be struggling constantly to get out. The shuddering of reality can be faked by Runesmiths if they wanted.
[X] THEORY: There's some sort of strange illusion magic going on, and it's not visible even to extremely good mage sight. Out of all known sources of magic only Dawi Runes are capable of that - so the works of Dawi Runesmiths are still in use.
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