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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Smartphone said:
Honestly I feel like the tower is not going to be a huge advantage against the dragon no matter what we do.
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It is an Emperor Dragon. Nothing will be a huge advantage. These things kill armies. They sink battle fleets and level fortresses.
You want an actual counter? You tell Kragg he has a decade to make a 25 favour grade weapon, armour and talisman all tailor made for fighting dragons.

BoneyM said:
In general, it breaks down into three broad size categories: man-portable artefacts, Battle Altars, towers.
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Urge to make an airship-portable Battle Tower… rising.

[X] Plan: Skavenslayer with Artillery
You know what? Yeah, we have done the doom tower thing. This is a softball assignment. We should use it as an opportunity to experiment and branch out.
 
Andres110 said:
@picklepikkl I'd like to express a statement of disgust in reaction to the Lightning Storm element of the plan. Lightning Storm is a crap spell to use. First of all, it's not Battle Magic, which automatically disqualifies it from being useful against an Emperor dragon. Secondly, it's an AoE spell, meaning it sacrifices its ability to inflict damage on single targets in order to affect more targets - something that's wholly the opposite of what the anti-dragon tower should be going for. Urannon's Thunderbolt is a much better spell to use against the Ice Dragon.
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So, the thing is, I don't think that trying to oppose an Emperor Dragon with battle magic is wise, because it can counterspell. Battle magic blowing up in our faces seems a lot worse than non-battle magic doing so. Lightning Storm is also better against non-Dragon threats we are likely to face, like wyverns, than a giant Fuck This Thing In Particular lightning bolt. The actual plan against the Emperor Dragon specifically is "Curse it so that it is less lucky and takes more damage, then hit it with cannons".

There's no way we're gonna make a tower in a single action that has a serious chance of taking it down. But we don't need to.
BoneyM said:
If Belegar wanted Mathilde to prepare for a certain fight it'd be a longer and more detailed process, but he's asked her to contribute whatever she can as a just-in-case, and as a softball for Mathilde.
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This is a just-in-case for a low-likelihood possibility, and thread arguments have convinced me that we shouldn't overengineer it for a specific unlikely scenario when other, similar scenarios are way more likely.
 
Derpmind said:
-[X] Attempt to create anti-dragon artillery pieces, using whatever combination of engineering, enchanting, and runework you can manage to wrangle together.
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That is... very vague, given that it was recommended we provided specific rune combos for artillery pieces earlier. I'm going to throw out something with a bit more detail attached.

[X] Plan: Skavenslayer with Less Vague Artillery
-[X] MAX: Receive dictation.
-[X] JOHANN: Write a paper: Ratling Gun mechanism and countermeasures
-[X] DUCK: Spend time with Hubert to try to ensure a good relationship between him and magic, and between him and his identity as a Wizard.
-[X] EIC: Lend the services of the Hochlander, and the EIC's intelligence and contacts, to Roswita to help track down the Talabeclanders buying peat from the vampires.
-[X] Attempt to create a network of anti-air artillery emplacements, featuring runed artillery, personal/Altar scale enchanted items to provide accuracy buffs, and a small reserve of specialist runed ammunition for the hardest targets.
--[X] Suggested artillery runes: Rune of Accuracy/Flakksson's Rune of Seeking for precision, Rune of Penetrating for damage
--[X] Suggested buffs: Trial and Error, Second Portent of Amul (not necessarily at the same time)
--[X] Specialist bolts: (Master) Rune of Dragonslaying/Demonslaying, Rune of Cleaving, Rune of Striking
--[X] COIN: The Gambler
-[X] Travel to the Grey College and attend lessons there: Staff Turning
-[X] Attempt to interest a prominent and knowledgeable Runesmiths in the interaction between Runes and Vitae. (will start at the top and work your way down)
-[X] Dictate papers:
--[X] Queekish-Reikspiel Dictionary, including spoken Low Queekish
--[X] Insight on Skaven tactics and strategy
-[X] PENTHOUSE: Have a tower built atop Karag Nar
-[X] SERENITY: Write a paper: Brief observations on Eshin Sorcery

Not that I'm wedded to those particular proposals, but I think we should have something besides whatever we can wrangle together.

[X] Plan: Skavenslayer
[X] Plan Versatile
 
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picklepikkl said:
So, the thing is, I don't think that trying to oppose an Emperor Dragon with battle magic is wise, because it can counterspell. Battle magic blowing up in our faces seems a lot worse than non-battle magic doing so. Lightning Storm is also better against non-Dragon threats we are likely to face, like wyverns, than a giant Fuck This Thing In Particular lightning bolt. The actual plan against the Emperor Dragon specifically is "Curse it so that it is less lucky and takes more damage, then hit it with cannons".

There's no way we're gonna make a tower in a single action that has a serious chance of taking it down. But we don't need to.
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Counterspell only very rarely results in an explosion. The normal result is it just makes the spell fizzle out. Furthermore, the whole point of spells is that they're very useful to cast even despite the risks and downsides. I don't think the logic that we should abstain from battle magic since it might fail is good, because with that goes the assumption that battle magic as a whole has no place on the battlefield when in truth it's the magic that has most place on the battlefield.

EDIT: Enchanted items with spells loaded in them are reliable. They can be counterspelled but can't miscast, and being counterspelled is almost entirely safe.
 
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[X] Plan: Skavenslayer
[X] Plan An Opportunity
[X] Plan: Skaven Knowledge Bomb v2

Too much plans, but these supposedly make Mathilde better.
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by AzuraNyx on Jun 29, 2020 at 6:50 PM, finished with 339 posts and 64 votes.
  • [X] Plan: Skaven Knowledge Bomb
    -[X] MAX: Receive dictation.
    -[X] JOHANN: Write a paper: Ratling Gun mechanism and countermeasures
    -[X] DUCK: Spend time with Hubert to try to ensure a good relationship between him and magic, and between him and his identity as a Wizard.
    -[X] EIC: Lend the services of the Hochlander, and the EIC's intelligence and contacts, to Roswita to help track down the Talabeclanders buying peat from the vampires.
    -[X] Build a new tower with anti-dragon capabilities
    --[X] Capable of the spells Lightning Storm for direct damage, Curse for debuffing hard targets, and Second Portent of Amul to buff gunnery (see below)
    --[X] COIN: The Gambler
    -[X] Create artillery emplacements with appropriate runic augmentation to supplement the new tower
    --[X] Suggested runes: Rune of Accuracy/Flakksson's Rune of Seeking for precision, Rune of Penetrating for damage
    -[X] Attempt to interest a prominent and knowledgeable Runesmith in the interaction between Runes and Vitae. (will start at the top and work your way down)
    -[X] Dictate papers:
    --[X] Queekish-Reikspiel Dictionary, including spoken Low Queekish
    --[X] Insight on Skaven tactics and strategy
    -[X] PENTHOUSE: Have a tower built atop Karag Nar
    -[X] SERENITY: Write a paper: Brief observations on Eshin Sorcery
    [X] Plan: Skavenslayer
    -[X] MAX: Receive dictation.
    -[X] JOHANN: Write a paper: Ratling Gun mechanism and countermeasures
    -[X] DUCK: Spend time with Hubert to try to ensure a good relationship between him and magic, and between him and his identity as a Wizard.
    -[X] EIC: Lend the services of the Hochlander, and the EIC's intelligence and contacts, to Roswita to help track down the Talabeclanders buying peat from the vampires.
    -[X] Build a new tower with anti-dragon capabilities
    --[X] Capable of the spells Lightning Storm for direct damage, Curse for debuffing hard targets, and Second Portent of Amul to buff gunnery
    --[X] COIN: The Gambler
    -[X] Travel to the Grey College and attend lessons there: Staff Turning
    -[X] Attempt to interest a prominent and knowledgeable Runesmiths in the interaction between Runes and Vitae. (will start at the top and work your way down)
    -[X] Dictate papers:
    --[X] Queekish-Reikspiel Dictionary, including spoken Low Queekish
    --[X] Insight on Skaven tactics and strategy
    -[X] PENTHOUSE: Have a tower built atop Karag Nar
    -[X] SERENITY: Write a paper: Brief observations on Eshin Sorcery
    [X] Plan: Skavenslayer with Artillery
    -[X] MAX: Receive dictation.
    -[X] JOHANN: Write a paper: Ratling Gun mechanism and countermeasures
    -[X] DUCK: Spend time with Hubert to try to ensure a good relationship between him and magic, and between him and his identity as a Wizard.
    -[X] EIC: Lend the services of the Hochlander, and the EIC's intelligence and contacts, to Roswita to help track down the Talabeclanders buying peat from the vampires.
    -[X] Attempt to create anti-dragon artillery pieces, using whatever combination of engineering, enchanting, and runework you can manage to wrangle together.
    --[X] COIN: The Gambler
    -[X] Travel to the Grey College and attend lessons there: Staff Turning
    -[X] Attempt to interest a prominent and knowledgeable Runesmiths in the interaction between Runes and Vitae. (will start at the top and work your way down)
    -[X] Dictate papers:
    --[X] Queekish-Reikspiel Dictionary, including spoken Low Queekish
    --[X] Insight on Skaven tactics and strategy
    -[X] PENTHOUSE: Have a tower built atop Karag Nar
    -[X] SERENITY: Write a paper: Brief observations on Eshin Sorcery
    [X] Plan: Skaven Knowledge Bomb v2
    -[X] MAX: Receive dictation.
    -[X] JOHANN: Write a paper: Ratling Gun mechanism and countermeasures
    -[X] DUCK: Spend time with Hubert to try to ensure a good relationship between him and magic, and between him and his identity as a Wizard.
    -[X] EIC: Lend the services of the Hochlander, and the EIC's intelligence and contacts, to Roswita to help track down the Talabeclanders buying peat from the vampires.
    -[X] Create artillery emplacements with appropriate runic augmentation to supplement the new tower
    --[X] Suggested runes: Rune of Accuracy/Flakksson's Rune of Seeking for precision, Rune of Penetrating for damage
    -[X] Attempt to interest a prominent and knowledgeable Runesmith in the interaction between Runes and Vitae. (will start at the top and work your way down)
    -[X] Dictate papers:
    --[X] Queekish-Reikspiel Dictionary, including spoken Low Queekish
    --[X] Insight on Skaven tactics and strategy
    -[X] Travel to the Grey College and attend lessons there. (Staff Making, 1 College Favour)
    -[X] PENTHOUSE: Have a tower built atop Karag Nar
    --[X] Capable of the spells Lightning Storm for direct damage, Curse for debuffing hard targets, and Second Portent of Amul to buff gunnery (see above)
    --[X] COIN: The Gambler
    -[X] SERENITY: Write a paper: Brief observations on Eshin Sorcery
    [X] Plan Finishing Up Old Business Hubert Edition
    -[X] MAX: Receive dictation(Brief observations on Eshin Sorcery (MOSTLY FADED)/Queekish-Reikspiel Dictionary, including spoken Low Queekish)
    -[X] JOHANN: Write a paper: Ratling Gun mechanism and countermeasures (FADING) (can be written by Johann).
    -[X] DUCK: Spend time with Hubert to try to ensure a good relationship between him and magic, and between him and his identity as a Wizard. (NEW-ish)
    -[X] SERENITY: Write a paper: Brief observations on Eshin Sorcery (MOSTLY FADED)
    -[X] EIC: Have the Hochlander introduce a series of ciphers to the EIC to allow it to communicate internally in much greater security. (NEW)
    -[X] PENTHOUSE: Have firing platforms built around the Penthouse so that it can be defended from flyers or climbers without granting access to it.
    -[X] Write a paper: Queekish-Reikspiel Dictionary, including spoken Low Queekish
    -[X] Gain enough control of your attraction to smoke and gases to have it collect away from your face.
    -[X] Investigate how the Vitae reacts to a power stone.
    -[X] Build a new tower with anti-dragon capabilities (specify Dwarven Rune or College spell it would be based on; does not cost favour).
    --[X] A combination of Second Portent of Amul, Curse, and Lightning Storm, along with Wrath and Ruin if one of the Runelords could see to aligning the powers.
    -[X] The Gambler: specify an action this will apply to.
    --[X] Anti-Dragon tower
    [X] Plan An Opportunity
    - [X] MAX: Write a paper: Queekish-Reikspiel Dictionary, including spoken Low Queekish (Half Completed)
    - [X] JOHANN: Write a paper: Ratling Gun mechanism and countermeasures (FADING)
    - [X] DUCK: Panoramia's about ready to test for Magister, but she's putting it off because she doesn't have a lot of free time to prepare. Work with her to help make the most of every spare minute.
    - [X] Lend the services of the Hochlander, and the EIC's intelligence and contacts, to Roswita to help track down the Talabeclanders buying peat from the vampires.
    - [X] PENTHOUSE: Add security measures to your Penthouse to prevent forcible entry.
    - [X] SERENITY: Insight on Skaven tactics and strategy (TIMELESS)
    - [X] Build a new tower with anti-dragon capabilities (Consult with College of Heaven wizards to see if any have an 'Anti-Air Tower Of DOOM!' or similar blueprint lying around they don't have the funds for. Otherwise: Roiling Skies, Urannon's Thunderbolt, Chain Lightning.)
    - [X] Travel to the Grey College and attend lessons there. (Staff Making, 1 College Favour)
    - [X] Attempt to interest a prominent and knowledgeable Runesmiths in the interaction between Runes and Vitae. (will start at the top and work your way down)
    - [X] Try to see through Pall of Darkness with your improved magical senses.
    - [X] The Gambler: Runesmith AV research.
    [X] Plan Finishing Up Old Business
    -[X] MAX: Receive dictation(Brief observations on Eshin Sorcery (MOSTLY FADED)/Queekish-Reikspiel Dictionary, including spoken Low Queekish)
    -[X] JOHANN: Write a paper: Ratling Gun mechanism and countermeasures (FADING) (can be written by Johann).
    -[X] DUCK: Panoramia's about ready to test for Magister, but she's putting it off because she doesn't have a lot of free time to prepare. Work with her to help make the most of every spare minute.
    -[X] SERENITY: Write a paper: Brief observations on Eshin Sorcery (MOSTLY FADED)
    -[X] EIC: Have the Hochlander introduce a series of ciphers to the EIC to allow it to communicate internally in much greater security. (NEW)
    -[X] PENTHOUSE: Have firing platforms built around the Penthouse so that it can be defended from flyers or climbers without granting access to it.
    -[X] Write a paper: Queekish-Reikspiel Dictionary, including spoken Low Queekish
    -[X] Gain enough control of your attraction to smoke and gases to have it collect away from your face.
    -[X] Investigate how the Vitae reacts to a power stone.
    -[X] Build a new tower with anti-dragon capabilities (specify Dwarven Rune or College spell it would be based on; does not cost favour).
    --[X] A combination of Second Portent of Amul, Curse, and Lightning Storm, along with Wrath and Ruin if one of the Runelords could see to aligning the powers.
    -[X] The Gambler: specify an action this will apply to.
    --[X] Anti-Dragon tower
    [X] Plan: Skaven Knowledge Missile Launcher
    -[X] MAX: Receive dictation.
    -[X] JOHANN: Write a paper: Ratling Gun mechanism and countermeasures
    -[X] DUCK: Spend time with Hubert to try to ensure a good relationship between him and magic, and between him and his identity as a Wizard.
    -[X] EIC: Lend the services of the Hochlander, and the EIC's intelligence and contacts, to Roswita to help track down the Talabeclanders buying peat from the vampires.
    -[X] Meet with high ranking Light, Amethyst and Celestial Wizards to propose a collaboration on a "thing on wheels" designed to shoot Ice Dragons (among other dragons and large airborne things) out of the sky and is usable by non-wizards. Emphasize the potentially available budget and the results of the last such collaboration.
    -[X] Collaborate on the project. Suggest the spells Lightning Storm, Curse and Second Portent of Amul and the Runes of Accuracy, Flakksson's Seeking and Penetrating, but be open to other ideas.
    --[X] COIN: The Gambler
    -[X] Attempt to interest a prominent and knowledgeable Runesmith in the interaction between Runes and Vitae. (will start at the top and work your way down)
    -[X] Dictate papers:
    --[X] Queekish-Reikspiel Dictionary, including spoken Low Queekish
    --[X] Insight on Skaven tactics and strategy
    -[X] PENTHOUSE:
    -[X] SERENITY: Write a paper: Brief observations on Eshin Sorcery
    [X] Plan: Skaven Knowledge Bomb w/Panoramia
    -[X] MAX: Receive dictation.
    -[X] JOHANN: Write a paper: Ratling Gun mechanism and countermeasures
    -[X] DUCK: Panoramia's about ready to test for Magister, but she's putting it off because she doesn't have a lot of free time to prepare. Work with her to help make the most of every spare minute.
    -[X] EIC: Lend the services of the Hochlander, and the EIC's intelligence and contacts, to Roswita to help track down the Talabeclanders buying peat from the vampires.
    -[X] Build a new tower with anti-dragon capabilities
    --[X] Capable of the spells Lightning Storm for direct damage, Curse for debuffing hard targets, and Second Portent of Amul to buff gunnery (see below)
    --[X] COIN: The Gambler
    -[X] Create artillery emplacements with appropriate runic augmentation to supplement the new tower
    -[X] Attempt to interest a prominent and knowledgeable Runesmiths in the interaction between Runes and Vitae. (will start at the top and work your way down)
    -[X] Dictate papers:
    --[X] Queekish-Reikspiel Dictionary, including spoken Low Queekish
    --[X] Insight on Skaven tactics and strategy
    -[X] PENTHOUSE: Have a tower built atop Karag Nar
    -[X] SERENITY: Write a paper: Brief observations on Eshin Sorcery
    [X]Plan moving on (Dragon needs fill in)
    -[X] MAX: Receive dictation: specify which. Must be taken with a 'dictate' action.
    --[X] Queekish-Reikspiel Dictionary, including spoken Low Queekish
    -[X] Serenity dictate Queekish-Reikspiel Dictionary, including spoken Low Queekish
    -[X] JOHANN: Write a paper: specify which.
    --[X] Ratling Gun mechanism and countermeasures (FADING) (can be written by Johann)
    -[X]DUCK: Work with Panoramia to try to implement the Waaaghsoak Mushrooms as an aid to spellcasting.
    -[X]EIC: Completely and over management of the EIC intelligence apparatus to the Hochlander. Will remove this section from future turns and regain the half-turn invested in it.
    -[X]Attempt to interest a young Runesmith with ambition and flexibility in the interaction between Runes and Vitae. (will give a selection of candidates)
    --[X]Gambler
    --[X]Move EIC half action to AV
    -[X] Build a new tower with anti-dragon capabilities (specify Dwarven Rune or College spell it would be based on; does not cost favour).
    -[X]Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Try to create them.
    -[X] Eshin Sorcerer paper
    [X] Plan All Out Research
    -[X] MAX: Study an artefact:
    -[X] JOHANN: Have him teach Adela what he knows of engineering.
    -[X] DUCK: Panoramia's about ready to test for Magister, but she's putting it off because she doesn't have a lot of free time to prepare. Work with her to help make the most of every spare minute.
    -[X] EIC: Lend the services of the Hochlander, and the EIC's intelligence and contacts, to Roswita to help track down the Talabeclanders buying peat from the vampires. (NEW)
    -[X] ACTION 1: Current Task: Create and design an Anti-Air weapon and ask Gotri for help, but add enchantments to the bolts to make it able to target and hurt a dragon. This would be Smoke And Mirrors to teleport the bolt right next to the target after firing, then maybe Shadow Knives to deal damage,
    -[X] ACTION 2: Study an artefact: Ranald's Coin
    --[X]Gambler
    -[X] ACTION 3: Using what you've learned of how it reacts to Runes, create new means of storing and moving the Vitae in complete safety. (NEW)
    -[X] ACTION 4: Attempt to interest a prominent and knowledgeable Runesmiths in the interaction between Runes and Vitae. (will start at the top and work your way down)
    -[X] PENTHOUSE: Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
    -[X] SERENITY: Queekish-Reikspiel Dictionary, including spoken Low Queekish (Half Completed)
    -[X] COIN: The Gambler: Studying Ranald's Coin
    [x] Attempt to establish diplomatic relations with the Ice Dragon of Karag Zilfin with the ultimate goal of forming a mutual defense pact. The ultimate defense against a marauding dragon is a bigger badder
    [X] Plan: Skavenslayer with Less Vague Artillery
    -[X] MAX: Receive dictation.
    -[X] JOHANN: Write a paper: Ratling Gun mechanism and countermeasures
    -[X] DUCK: Spend time with Hubert to try to ensure a good relationship between him and magic, and between him and his identity as a Wizard.
    -[X] EIC: Lend the services of the Hochlander, and the EIC's intelligence and contacts, to Roswita to help track down the Talabeclanders buying peat from the vampires.
    -[X] Attempt to create a network of anti-air artillery emplacements, featuring runed artillery, personal/Altar scale enchanted items to provide accuracy buffs, and a small reserve of specialist runed ammunition for the hardest targets.
    --[X] Suggested artillery runes: Rune of Accuracy/Flakksson's Rune of Seeking for precision, Rune of Penetrating for damage
    --[X] Suggested buffs: Trial and Error, Second Portent of Amul (not necessarily at the same time)
    --[X] Specialist bolts: (Master) Rune of Dragonslaying/Demonslaying, Rune of Cleaving, Rune of Striking
    --[X] COIN: The Gambler
    -[X] Travel to the Grey College and attend lessons there: Staff Turning
    -[X] Attempt to interest a prominent and knowledgeable Runesmiths in the interaction between Runes and Vitae. (will start at the top and work your way down)
    -[X] Dictate papers:
    --[X] Queekish-Reikspiel Dictionary, including spoken Low Queekish
    --[X] Insight on Skaven tactics and strategy
    -[X] PENTHOUSE: Have a tower built atop Karag Nar
    -[X] SERENITY: Write a paper: Brief observations on Eshin Sorcery
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Is it possible to do a duel style setup like being able to switch between the lightning bolt to hit big tough opponets and the lightning storm to hit groups of smaller opponents?
 
It should be noted that Plan Skaven Knowledge Bomb v2 is an illegal plan by Word of Boney, and that I no longer support Skaven Knowledge Bomb but have moved on to Skavenslayer.
Andres110 said:
Counterspell only very rarely results in an explosion. The normal result is it just makes the spell fizzle out. Furthermore, the whole point of spells is that they're very useful to cast even despite the risks and downsides. I don't think the logic that we should abstain from battle magic since it might fail is good, because with that goes the assumption that battle magic as a whole has no place on the battlefield when in truth it's the magic that has most place on the battlefield.

EDIT: Enchanted items with spells loaded in them are reliable. They can be counterspelled but can't miscast, and being counterspelled is almost entirely safe.
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Interesting. Well, if you want to make an alternative plan which swaps out Lightning Storm for the spell you mentioned, or which has both available, I'll approval vote for it to give it a chance to get off the ground.
 
Approval voting:

[X] Plan: Skavenslayer
[X] Plan: Skavenslayer with Artillery
[X] Plan: Skavenslayer with Less Vague Artillery

I am fine with any of these (or with a Skavenslayer variant that uses Battle Magic as @Andres110 proposed) winning.
 
I feel like making a delivery mechanism for the Brass orb would be a better countermeasure and would take less work to make.
 
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