Knocking out the Forluc and the Caradysh is the most difficult part here, not a forgone conclusion like you seem to imply.

@UlseDovThur I'm going to back this up. The Forluc and Caradysh have never been weaker (well, technically the Forluc were weaker in the Lowland Collapse), but that isn't the same as knocking them out being a foregone conclusion. It might be different if you were neighbouring them, but between the distance, the home territory and the Martial Heroes, neither the Forluc or the Caradysh will go down quietly. Actually finishing off the Caradysh and the Forluc will be the most difficult part of the whole affair should you go down that path.

Edit: Like successful defying death itself is the Caradysh's whole shtick while the Forluc have built the core of their civilisation around enduring every crisis that has come their way and coming out alive even if it is by the skin of their teeth.
 
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This relies on the assumption that the Forluc will somehow be weaker after the rebellion instead of stronger. The combination of political unification and a newly bolstered undead army means that an invasion after a failed rebellion would likely go worse than simply invading them right now. Knocking out the Forluc and the Caradysh is the most difficult part here, not a forgone conclusion like you seem to imply.
First, those were hypotheticals, second I'm not saying that they, themselves, will be weaker but they won't have the support of the Forden or Fornn and their martial hero which, getting a martial hero just straight up off the board for the enemy, is a Big deal and neither will they have the support of their infrastructure as they themselves will need to destroy it to stomp them out.

I am more concerned with them having support of the subordinates than simply having more bodies to throw at us both because as we have proven we are quite adept at killing large amounts of undead but also by knocking out the subordinates we also deprive them of their Action economies.

We were able to gather an invasion force of 12 temp martial this turn because we have three subordinates who also dedicated their actions to it. If we didn't we would have only mustered 4.

I'm also not saying this will be easy but it'll be a hell of a lot easier to do now than if we waited to do so in the future after they had time to dig in.
 
For those voting to encourage the rebellion, it is the high risk, high reward option. You could crush your main two rivals if it goes well, but if it fails, you will have strengthen Galdae by removing her main source of internal opposition unrest alongside strengthen her tenuous legitimacy.

On a related note, the Forden and Fornn are already in a state of ignoring Galdae's commands and refusing to acknowledge her authority. Encouraging them to rebel would be encourage them to take up arms against her.
@UlseDovThur I'm going to back this up. The Forluc and Caradysh have never been weaker (well, technically the Forluc were weaker in the Lowland Collapse), but that isn't the same as knocking them out being a foregone conclusion. It might be different if you were neighbouring them, but between the distance, the home territory and the Martial Heroes, neither the Forluc or the Caradysh will go down quietly. Actually finishing off the Caradysh and the Forluc will be the most difficult part of the whole affair should you go down that path.

Edit: Like successful defying death itself is the Caradysh's whole shtick while the Forluc have built the core of their civilisation around enduring every crisis that has come their way and coming out alive even if it is by the skin of their teeth.
So yeah, how about we just try to grab a few Megaprojects, catch up on Infrastructure and maybe do a bit of blobbing? Leave the Forluc with their internal power struggles(active civil war or not) while we gradually shrink the effective distance.

With luck, the Forluc will either overthrow the Caradysh king, devastate the Forden/Fornn into irrelevance or get attacked by the Cernn.

That, or we might unlock options to either deny parts of the Cursed Forest to the Caradysh or project force more deeply in the future. For example through (divine?)magic, deforestation or walled forest settlements.

The slow grind wins the war.
 
So yeah, how about we just try to grab a few Megaprojects, catch up on Infrastructure and maybe do a bit of blobbing? Leave the Forluc with their internal power struggles(active civil war or not) while we gradually shrink the effective distance.

With luck, the Forluc will either overthrow the Caradysh king, devastate the Forden/Fornn into irrelevance or get attacked by the Cernn.

That, or we might unlock options to either deny parts of the Cursed Forest to the Caradysh or project force more deeply in the future. For example through (divine?)magic, deforestation or walled forest settlements.

The slow grind wins the war.
Yes. Because leaving Urth alone to plot and consolidate has worked so very well for us in the past.

*sigh* Whatever. I'm done arguing this. If you all want to just ignore this obvious and amazing opening/chance/opportunity to knock out both of our biggest rivals in one go while they're down and weak, however hard it may be, go ahead.
 
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Vote is still open.
Vote Tally : Chronicles of Nations Redux - Civ Quest Original | Page 34 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 851-914]
##### NetTally 2.2.0

Task: React

[X][React] Begin construction of the Stone Wall.
No. of Votes: 6

[X][React] Finish the work on the Sacred Forest.
No. of Votes: 5

[X][React] Encourage the Forden and Fornn to rebel against Galdae
No. of Votes: 4

[X][React] Reach out to the Zaradysh and Boarfolk nomads.
No. of Votes: 4

[X][React] Make effort to expand the military long term.
No. of Votes: 2

[X][React] Study the secrets of magic and metal.
No. of Votes: 2


Total No. of Voters: 14
 
We do not have the logistics to fight a war with the Forluch/Caradysh, nor do we know enough to judge success. We need more intel and more trading.
 
We do not have the logistics to fight a war with the Forluch/Caradysh, nor do we know enough to judge success. We need more intel and more trading.
Actually we do have the logistics. Not only did we just get the Logistics technology, we also have a settlement in the lowlands conflux to act as an excellent mid-way point for such a war. Caermyr isn't just a fantastic trading spot, it's also great as a base for attacking the lowlands from.
 
We do not have the logistics to fight a war with the Forluch/Caradysh, nor do we know enough to judge success. We need more intel and more trading.
Also Oshha didn't say that we couldn't attack them effectively because of the distance just that the distance would make it a bit more difficult.
 
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Yes. Because leaving Urth alone to plot and consolidate has worked so very well for us in the past.

*sigh* Whatever. I'm done arguing this. If you all want to just ignore this obvious and amazing opening/chance/opportunity to knock out both of our biggest rivals in one go while they're down and weak, however hard it may be, go ahead.
Because trying to kill Urth worked so well for us in the past you mean?
It kind of has, what with the Caradysh getting wrecked(but not eliminated) as usual and laying dormant for probably a couple of generations before coming back stronger than before as usual while our civ continues to expand. As usual.

That aside, Urth and his Caradysh are technically not the target. The current war-type vote is for targeting the Forluc, who have yet to actually wage war on us but whose current ruler is dodgy and probably(but not confirmed to be) Urth in disguise but might just be under Urth's control.
In terms of casus belli, the current situation is more comparable to when Brianna took over the Coltyre and rebranded them as the True Zaradysh. Specifically, the point before she drafted the entire populace and marched to war.
 
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Actually we do have the logistics. Not only did we just get the Logistics technology, we also have a settlement in the lowlands conflux to act as an excellent mid-way point for such a war. Caermyr isn't just a fantastic trading spot, it's also great as a base for attacking the lowlands from.
The Caermyr doesn't have the infraestructure to support an army big enought to wipe the Forluc and Urth easily, we have to accept that we were not prepared enought to exploit this gap, well bad for us, be better next time. Is wise to know what we have done right and wrong, let's calm down, review and prepare for the next time. Leting hot heads and jump straight at every oportunity like wolves will most likely be bad for us in the end, Urth is intelligent and we are not mindless beast, lets reflect.

We need to expand the Caermyr and make it a bastion for our operations in the lowlands, lets go in a megaproject spree and fortify our position so when the Forluc become stable again we have the upper hand. I know it can be frustraiting to let go an oportunity but now it has to many risks. The explosive route is uncertain but we can plan and try to snowball, expand so we get more actions and people, meaning more armies and more power.
 
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He's not going to be courting Zarannists when he's only just become ruler of a war-wracked country. He's going to consolidate and we have to disrupt that, and the best way of doing so is by getting his vassals to rebel.
That is an assumption about Urth, perhaps Urth already courted the Zarannists just before attacking us and the Forluc. Or perhaps the Caradysh have a Spy Organisation megaproject, and there are agents that will alert Urth so that he can interfere with our attempt. Or maybe something else.
Supporting a rebellion could work very well, but if it fails then Urth will purge the rebellious. He is ruling through impersonation, which limits the orders that he can give. If he moves too fast or too far, then the Forluc in the homeland will rebel against him.

The Caradysh are dead! We wiped them out! The final thing we have to do is beat Urth, who's currently king of the Forluc. It's the final thing we have to do and we never have to fight Urth or the Caradysh again! There's a time and place to expand and prepare but this is not that time or place. We need to attack NOW. We're in the best possible situation to attack and Urth is in the worst possible position to defend. There's not gonna be a better time to attack and end this conflict forever.
Completely incorrect.
The Forluc were still reeling from the Caradysh invasion and vast swaths of the Cursed Forest had been ravaged by the Arthwyd.
The Forluc put up a good showing with a new generation of warriors, but they had yet to properly recover and had the main focus on the Caradysh on them.
Vast : of great extent / / / Swaths : a broad strip of something
In other words; the Arthwyd ravaged large chunks of the Forest, not all of it. It likely means that we destroyed more than half of their settlements. Vast swaths is used to describe more than 10%, but less than 80% so the damage we inflicted fell somewhere between that. However many Caradysh survived, they are undoubtedly rebuilding.
The Caradysh were mainly focused on the Forluc, not us. That victorious army has returned to the Cursed Forest (except for Urth and puppets who remain with the Forluc) and are currently defending the Forest.
None of the [React] options include making another attack on the Cursed Forest, which means our next attack on the Forest will face prepared defences.

If you want to " We need to attack NOW", why are you voting for Encourage Rebellion?
We have an attack now option (appropriately called "Attack the Forluc ") so shouldn't you be voting for that?



@Oshha I think there is a typo; the update says "main focus on the Caradysh on them". I think it should be "focus of the Caradysh"

EDIT:

Let me direct you to another quest:

If we finish the Sacred Forest now, the Infrastructure passive will make more forest instead of a palisade next turn. That means if we want a free innovation, we have to spend a Secondary action building a palisade. The best thing to do is wait for a little bit. Our Megaproject policy will finish the Sacred Forest next turn automatically. Everything will be fine, all we need is a little patience.
1) It only reduces the chances of the Infrastructure passive building palisades, it doesn't stop it from building palisades.
2)That free Innovation would be nice, but not having it wouldn't cause disaster. If we don't increase our Stability before the next hit, that would be a disaster.
3)"Our Megaproject policy will finish the Sacred Forest next turn automatically" This is a very good point, but it is a small gamble. If we leave it to the policy then there are at least 15 additional years where a disaster could drop us to 0 Stability.
 
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Species of the Chalcolithic Arthwyd
Arthwydish Humans
One of the three sapient species within the Arthwyd Empire, humans make up the vast majority of the people in Arthwydish lands. While still human, the Blessing of Arthryn alongside the living conditions of the Arthwyd means that Arthwydish humans are distinct compared to other humans.

The Blessing of Arthryn leaves the Arthwydish humans as being tougher and stronger on top of having greater intelligence, but this is just one factor to what sets the Arthwyd apart from their fellow humans. Extreme management and organisation of food means that no one goes hungry, allowing the Arthwyd to reap the benefits of being well fed and avoid suffering the effects of malnutrition and starvation. Even without the Blessing of Arthryn, the food policies of the Arthwyd would result in their people being healthier and stronger than their neighbours.

Another factor is the divine magics that are commonplace amongst Arthwydish society. Combined with the enhanced endurance and toughness granted by the Blessing of Arthryn and the benefits of having a healthy, well-fed body, the divine magic of the Arthwyd allows the Arthwydish to avoid many of the injuries and illnesses that befell their neighbours. Not only are they better able to avoid catching illness or being injured, but the Arthwydish can more easily survive their wounds and ailments and recover from them while the divine magic grants them better healing than anything their neighbours can come up with.

The Arthwyd also have a distinct appearance as the most common appearance amongst the Arthwyd is one of a tall, muscular individual who has superior strength and toughness. Less common, but still common characteristics include brown hair, blue eyes and for the women, a curvy figure. The last one is a particularly noteworthy as between the Blessing of Arthryn and a proper diet, Arthwydish women not only go through puberty earlier, but the results of it are more pronounced thanks to the Blessing and being properly fed for the entirety of their lives.

Arthwydish Birdfolk
The other main sapient species within the Arthwyd, the Birdfolk make up a small minority of the population with less than one in a hundred individuals being Birdfolk. Having entered the Arthwyd as lowland refugees, the Birdfolk have flourished under the Arthwyd.

In many ways, the Birdfolk are similar to humans, but they are also distinctive different to humans. They have beaks instead of mouths and noses while their feet have talons in the place of toenails.

Another major difference is that the Birdfolk have wings sprouting from their backs, giving them six limbs compared to the four that humans have. These wings are feathered like a bird and the Birdfolk have extra chest and shoulder muscles to compensate alongside more efficient heart and lungs.

A lesser difference between Birdfolk and humans is that the former have feathers down their backs and down the sides of their arms. Beyond this, humans and Birdfolk are the same and the Birdfolk will get pregnant and give birth like humans do. That said, the Birdfolk universally have small, lean, lithe bodies to maximise their weight to muscle ratio to increase their flight ability and unlike with humans, male and female Birdfolk have no meaningful differences when it comes to height and weight.

Arthwydish Birdfolk are slightly different thanks to the Blessing of Arthryn. The Blessing of Arthryn affects their human aspects whilst having no direct impact on their nonhuman features. This results in greater human muscles, but no changes to their wing muscles and the end result of this reduces the flight ability of the Arthwydish Birdfolk as their weight is increased with nothing to compensation. The Birdfolk women in the Arthwyd have it even worse as their fuller figures result in even more weight that makes it harder for them to flight.

Yet despite the Blessing of Arthryn reducing their flight capabilities, it is accepted within the Birdfolk of the Arthwyd that the Blessing is worth that reduction in ability thanks to the other benefits that the Blessing of Arthryn provides.

Maradysh Boarfolk
The third species in the Arthwyd Empire, Boarfolk have the smallest population and cannot be found in the Arthwyd proper. Roughly two thousand Boarfolk live amongst the Maradysh, spread out across a few hundred semi-nomadic tribes.

Boarfolk are humanoid in nature and despite some similarities to humans, they are easily told apart. Boarfolk have the ears and nose of a boar alongside the mouth and eyes of a human. Whilst their teeth are the same as those of a human for the most part, Boarfolk have two tusks in the place of canines on their lower jaws.

Beyond that, Boarfolk are very muscular with thick necks and broad shoulders. Their body types are always burly and stocky, giving them something of an intimidating look thanks to their other physical features.

Supposedly created by their god, the All-Boar, Boarfolk are a very insular and religious people. Riding about on the giant dire boars that the All-Boar gifted them with, the Boarfolk live in nomadic tribes based around familial ties. The Boarfolk will stick very firmly to their traditional culture and will vigorously resist any attempts to assimilate or co-opt them.

***​

As requested by @Andres110, an info post about the species that can be found within the Arthwyd. I got the basics here and if you want more info, feel free to ask for further details.

Please point out any spelling or grammar mistakes that you spot. Please quote them in the thread and explain what you think is wrong so I know what you are referring to. Feel to ask questions for more details and information.
 
We may want to adjust the Blessing to cover birdfolk properly if we get the opportunity in the future.

Because otherwise the resulting genedrive will probably eradicate them eventually.
 
We may want to adjust the Blessing to cover birdfolk properly if we get the opportunity in the future.

Because otherwise the resulting genedrive will probably eradicate them eventually.
What do you mean? As far as I'm aware there's no big selective pressure against them that's killing them for not being able to fly better.
 
We may want to adjust the Blessing to cover birdfolk properly if we get the opportunity in the future.

Because otherwise the resulting genedrive will probably eradicate them eventually.
Given this:
Cadlon Blodwyn had proven her genius. Where she had once been looking at a revolt against her rule, Cadlon Blodwyn was now revered as one of the greatest Cadlons that the Arthwyd had seen.
I suspect Blodwyn has a good chance to receive a place in the Arthrynite pantheon after her death.

Rather than adjust the Blessing of Arthryn, I'd rather try to unlock the Blessing of Blodwyn if/when we receive another boon from the gods.
 
As I see it this basically means that unlike Humans who only get better under the blessing the Bird&Boarfolk would have their own set of buffs that don't interact with the blessing, so it's a bit more of a boost with a cost instead of being a straight upgrade.
IDK what, if anything the Boars would 'lose' in the bargain but I'd expect it to be like the difference between more HP versus more DEF, sometime roughly the same, sometimes making a difference.
 
As I see it this basically means that unlike Humans who only get better under the blessing the Bird&Boarfolk would have their own set of buffs that don't interact with the blessing, so it's a bit more of a boost with a cost instead of being a straight upgrade.

The Boarfolk may or may not already have a species-wide blessing from the All-Boar.
 
We may want to adjust the Blessing to cover birdfolk properly if we get the opportunity in the future.

Because otherwise the resulting genedrive will probably eradicate them eventually.
More that we want more diverse blessings. The Pillarman blessing is all round pretty good, but only for a primarily land bound person.
 
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