we will also need to be careful, we dont want to end up being like great britan in the revolutionary war, making our enemies decide dealing with us would be worth working with their enemies,( they reallly should have exploited the north vs south that was already surfacing, as evidenced by the constitution).

Edit: We would do better supporting the preisthood, which is gonna be far from simple and would require both getting them to accept help and not tank their influence.
 
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They will most likely be upset. The Caradysh are part of their empire and being the proud, elitist supremacists that they are, the Forluc wouldn't tolerate foreigners invading their empire even if they don't like the part of the empire that is being invaded. It is the principle of the thing.
God fuckin (intense grumbling) damn arrogant sods. *sigh* if that's the case it looks like we're in this for the long game then. If we attack the caradysh that'll just give Urth the perfect chance to solidify the Forluc behind his puppet which, until now, I was fine with seeing as last update it seemed that they were already nominally doing that.

But with the revelation that Nalnir seems not so keen on the idea I would rather give him time to clean house of the puppet on the throne and it's supporters.

That means we're in this for the long game.

[X] [Mega] In response to the Evalynite Walls being devoted to her name, Evalyn grants her Blessing to the Arthwyd. (Gain the Blessing of Evalyn)

[X] [SEC] Change up to two Passive Policies
-[X] Agriculture -> Infrastructure
-[X] Expansion -> Infrastructure

[X] [MAIN] Train Sacred Warriors

Right now we have a huge backlog of infrastructure. Like, Massive. Seeing as we don't have any immediate problems I'd like to start making a dent in it. We also have no use of the Agriculture passive and the expansion one is a bit of a waste as it only does half of the work of a SEC action. Yeah it's free but if there's one thing I'm not worried about it's our stats. Better to use our actions as effectively as possible.

Also no real point to doing the Temple project ourselves as the Province Action will do that for us after it finishes the forest this turn.
 
God damn it, if we hadn't finished the stone wall so soon we would've gotten a free innovation this turn. Now we have to wait two turns for the policy to build the walls.
 
[X] [Mega] The completion of the Evalynite Walls results in the Catclaws and Cateyes reassessing how they defend the Arthwyd. (Upgrade the Sacred Defence Value)
[X] [Mega] In response to the Evalynite Walls being devoted to her name, Evalyn grants her Blessing to the Arthwyd. (Gain the Blessing of Evalyn)

[X] [MAIN] More Farming.

[X] [SEC] More Messengers.
[X] [SEC] Change up to two Passive Policies
-[X] Agriculture -> Infrastructure
-[X] Expansion -> Infrastructure
 
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[X] [Mega] In response to the Evalynite Walls being devoted to her name, Evalyn grants her Blessing to the Arthwyd. (Gain the Blessing of Evalyn)
 
Guys please stop voting to switch out Expansion policy. The GM has explicitly said twice that we need Expansion policy to keep up with our population growth. If we switch it out we'll face overpopulation.
 
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Yeah, the idea of ceasing expansion whilst in a baby boom doesn't seem well thought out to me.
 
[X] [Mega] The completion of the Evalynite Walls results in the Catclaws and Cateyes reassessing how they defend the Arthwyd. (Upgrade the Sacred Defence Value)
[X] [Mega] In response to the Evalynite Walls being devoted to her name, Evalyn grants her Blessing to the Arthwyd. (Gain the Blessing of Evalyn)

[X] [MAIN] Train Sacred Warriors
[X] [SEC] Trade Expedition = Forden

So, while we have settled into a relatively cold war, we really need to be considering how we will proceed. I can see four primary ways (although there are certainly others)

1) Take advantage of the fact that the Forluc priesthood hates the undead and focus our attacks on the Caradysh, hopefully either making the Forluc devolve into civil war or otherwise be unable to assist.
2) Make friends with the Forden/Fornn and use their autonomous state to break them away from the Forluc and towards us.
3) Make use of an otherwise unavailable third party (like the nomads) to surprise the Caraluc with numbers and take advantage of their dis-unified state.
4) Play the long game, ignore them all, and start trying to beef up (I would really prefer not to do this)

To this effect, I support the megaproject results that will effect our military strength, which either an improvement in doctrine or the blessing of Evalyn (who was one of our most renowned war leaders) are likely to do.

I believe that the increase in perma martial is almost mandatory considering the current situation, so Main Sacred Warriors is locked in for me. For our secondary, I would prefer to in some way take advantage of the Forluc's state of disunity by taking away some of their vassals. Either one is fine, but I just chose the Forden because iirc they had a Heroic Martial chilling out. Sacred Forest will continue to be worked on (and possibly finish) through our province action.

1) Sadly this doesn't look like a viable option as Oshha pointed out if we attack a nominal portion of their empire, even if they really don't like that portion, they'll attack us for it as a matter of principle. Wish we could.

2) I really don't see this happening. While they are very upset with the current management that's all they're mad about. Once the puppet is gone and they've cleared themselves of Caradysh influence they'll have on issues with the Forluc. They are Forluc in everything but name. Culturally, religiously, everything.

3) We could do this now that we have the time to do so, yeah.

4) Only real viable option. Gotta wait until the Forluc descend into internal conflict so we can attack the Caradysh while they're busy. I'm not happy about it but it is what it is.

Guys please stop voting to switch out Expansion policy. The GM has explicitly said twice that we need Expansion policy to keep up with our population growth. If we switch it out we'll face overpopulation.
If we didn't place settlements down manually then yeah we would need the policy. But we can place them ourselves so we just need to watch for that and place one down every couple of turns. We'll probably get a heads up if the population density starts to become an issue like we did before when the idea first cropped up.

Right now I just prefer being more efficient with our Actions.
 
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If we didn't place settlements down manually then yeah we would need the policy. But we can place them ourselves so we just need to watch for that and place one down every couple of turns. We'll probably get a heads up if the population density starts to become an issue like we did before when the idea first cropped up.

Right now I just prefer being more efficient with our Actions.
Passive policies are ideal for doing actions we want done continuously in the background, thus letting us save the more dynamic normal actions to exploit opportunities and deal with new problems. If we take off Expansion policy, we'll not only lose an absolutely enormous amount of stats in the long term, we'll also take a sharp cut in our ability to manage our civilisation by essentially sacrificing a sixth of our actions.
 
Vote is still open.
Vote Tally : Chronicles of Nations Redux - Civ Quest Original | Page 39 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 970-980]
##### NetTally 2.2.0

[X] MAIN] More Farming.
No. of Votes: 1



——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: Mega

[X][Mega] In response to the Evalynite Walls being devoted to her name, Evalyn grants her Blessing to the Arthwyd. (Gain the Blessing of Evalyn)
No. of Votes: 6

[X][Mega] The completion of the Evalynite Walls results in the Catclaws and Cateyes reassessing how they defend the Arthwyd. (Upgrade the Sacred Defence Value)
No. of Votes: 3



——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: MAIN

[X][MAIN] Train Sacred Warriors
No. of Votes: 3



——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: SEC

[X][SEC] Change up to two Passive Policies
-[X] Agriculture -> Infrastructure
-[X] Expansion -> Infrastructure
No. of Votes: 2

[X][SEC] Trade Expedition = Forden
No. of Votes: 2

[X][SEC] More Messengers.
No. of Votes: 1


Total No. of Voters: 6
 
Passive policies are ideal for doing actions we want done continuously in the background, thus letting us save the more dynamic normal actions to exploit opportunities and deal with new problems. If we take off Expansion policy, we'll not only lose an absolutely enormous amount of stats in the long term, we'll also take a sharp cut in our ability to manage our civilisation by essentially sacrificing a sixth of our actions.
This is patently false. We can settle more land as a SEC action every couple of turns. It's the exact same thing. It's also more efficient as the passive settle policy only does .5 settling a turn which is half of what a SEC action does. The infrastructure passive however does the same amount of work as a SEC action. By doing this we save/gain a whole action every two turns in comparison.

Moreover by doing it ourselves we can be selective about where we settle rather than leaving it up to the policy which might simply settle further in an area we already have a Province in rather than expanding into a new area.
 
This is patently false.
Nothing I said was objectively wrong, so I'd appreciate it if you pointed out what you thought was.

On action efficiency, your assessment can only be correct if we spend normal actions on infrastructure, which we don't. Furthermore you still haven't addressed the rather important point that your plan will require a sixth of our actions to expansion and thus reduce the actions we use to deal with crises and exploit opportunities by a sixth.

Edit: It doesn't help that your vote plan is a prime example of the irresponsibility of your idea. Not a single action to settling land because we're building up to handle a crisis. The action and stat cost of dealing with crises will screw us if we have to spend both on background work.

Edit:
[X]Raichu1972

Urth is so vexing. If it wasn't for him we could do the Temple right now no problem. Gotta stay focused on him, though. We know what happens if we leave him alone. At least we denied him the walls' megaproject bonus. Would've made things a lot harder for us.
 
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Plan:Raichu1972
[X] [MAIN] Train Sacred Warriors
[X] [SEC] Trade Expedition = Forden
* Necessary increase in permanent Marital
*Indirectly attempting to weaken Urth by trying to break away a subordinate

Plan: Caradysh delenda est
[X] [MAIN] Train Sacred Warriors
[X] [SEC] Change up to two Passive Policies
-[X] Agriculture -> Expansion
-[X] Trade -> War (Caradysh)
* Necessary increase in permanent Marital
* Doubling our current settlement progress
*One Sec War Party will not do much damage, but it will place pressure on Urth




[X] [Mega] The completion of the Evalynite Walls results in the Arthwyd being reassured and reducing worries. (Gain +2 Stability)
[X] [Mega] The completion of the Evalynite Walls results in the Catclaws and Cateyes reassessing how they defend the Arthwyd. (Upgrade the Sacred Defence Value)
 
[X] [Mega] The completion of the Evalynite Walls results in the Catclaws and Cateyes reassessing how they defend the Arthwyd. (Upgrade the Sacred Defence Value)
[X] [Mega] In response to the Evalynite Walls being devoted to her name, Evalyn grants her Blessing to the Arthwyd. (Gain the Blessing of Evalyn)

Value or Blessing are what I'd prefer as a reward over a tech tempo advantage, a (mortal) Hero or some Stab.

[X] [SEC] Study Magic.
[X] [SEC] Study Metal.
[X] [SEC] Study Nature.

That said, Urth had a tech advantage over us in the previous war and we have a societal bonus to innovation. Even if we don't take tech as our reward, we don't want our opponents to get too much of a tech advantage. Magic or Metal might combo well with a MAIN Sacred Warriors action(or possibly each other, enchanted bronze anybody?), Magic or Nature might combo well with Southern trade, MAIN farming or the Sacred Forest being planted in the background.

Ideally, I'd like 1-2 Study action(s) this turn, but don't really care which.

[X] [MAIN] More Farming.
[X] [SEC] Settle Land = (Sunrise Bay)

I'd like to expand our Econ pool a bit more before we MAIN Train Sacrd Warriors. Mainly because I hope to rush either Eastern Rock River or Northern Sunset Plains to 6/15 so we can unlock a 4th action and quickly follow up on the wall spam.
2) Make friends with the Forden/Fornn and use their autonomous state to break them away from the Forluc and towards us.
Destabilizing the Forluc vassals in the aftermath of a war against the Caradysh.

From a certain point of view(distorted by time), this is what we did to the Fornn and Fordysh.
Guys please stop voting to switch out Expansion policy. The GM has explicitly said twice that we need Expansion policy to keep up with our population growth. If we switch it out we'll face overpopulation.
This is patently false. We can settle more land as a SEC action every couple of turns. It's the exact same thing. It's also more efficient as the passive settle policy only does .5 settling a turn which is half of what a SEC action does. The infrastructure passive however does the same amount of work as a SEC action. By doing this we save/gain a whole action every two turns in comparison.

Moreover by doing it ourselves we can be selective about where we settle rather than leaving it up to the policy which might simply settle further in an area we already have a Province in rather than expanding into a new area.
These statements are fair.

[X] [SEC] Change up to two Passive Policies
-[X] Agriculture -> Infrastructure
-[X] Trade -> Infrastructure
-[X] Expansion -> Infrastructure

I don't care which mix of these wins. Even failing to swap out Agriculture could give us the Econ to spam more settlements(thereby giving us a lower degree of urban density, deepening our Econ/Mystic pools and getting more actions/policies sooner). And SEC trade at least lets us choose who to trade with instead of relying on chance.
 
[X] [Mega] In response to the Evalynite Walls being devoted to her name, Evalyn grants her Blessing to the Arthwyd. (Gain the Blessing of Evalyn)
[X] [Mega] The completion of the Evalynite Walls results in the Catclaws and Cateyes reassessing how they defend the Arthwyd. (Upgrade the Sacred Defence Value)
[X] [MAIN] Train Sacred Warriors
[X] [SEC] Trade Expedition = Forden
 
-[X] Trade -> Infrastructure
Trade is too important to swap out. It's how we get information on the outside world and it's constantly improving our relations with our neighbours - two very important things. Those trade expeditions also give us chances to get technologies from the wider world, just like when Caermyr started trading with people and got us cattle, sheep, and painkillers.

And no, we won't trade as much with others without the Trade policy. We are absolutely not going to vote for Sec Trade Expedition every turn, it's just not going to happen.
 
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[X] [Mega] In response to the Evalynite Walls being devoted to her name, Evalyn grants her Blessing to the Arthwyd. (Gain the Blessing of Evalyn)
[X] [Mega] The completion of the Evalynite Walls results in the Catclaws and Cateyes reassessing how they defend the Arthwyd. (Upgrade the Sacred Defence Value)
[X] [MAIN] Train Sacred Warriors
[X] [SEC] Trade Expedition = Forden
 
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