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Chronicles of Nations Redux - Civ Quest

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Andres110 said:
I'm pretty sure that the first megaproject started takes priority.
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So still pretty sure this is the case, but it's a moot point. We get a penalty if we don't continue on a megaproject we've started and the Megaproject policy will do what it can do avoid that penalty. If we were to start Stone Wall next turn, the policy is still guaranteed to do Sacred Forest because otherwise we'd get hit with the penalty.
 
Andres110 said:
So still pretty sure this is the case, but it's a moot point. We get a penalty if we don't continue on a megaproject we've started and the Megaproject policy will do what it can do avoid that penalty. If we were to start Stone Wall next turn, the policy is still guaranteed to do Sacred Forest because otherwise we'd get hit with the penalty.
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Oshha said:
Qeqre said:
By the way @Oshha , will there be any penalties to the Sacred Forest megaproject if we don't make any progress on it during the reaction turn?
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I'm going to say no because it was done by the Passive Policy. If it was initiated by player action then yes.
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Provincial policy is not player action. Provincial policy is policy.

As such, the penalty for not continuing on the Sacred Forest might not be applicable.
 
Vote is still open.
Vote Tally : Chronicles of Nations Redux - Civ Quest Original | Page 34 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 851-902]
##### NetTally 2.2.0

Task: React

[X][React] Encourage the Forden and Fornn to rebel against Galdae
No. of Votes: 6
[X] 10ebbor10
[X] Andres110
[X] Kiba
[X] Qeqre
[X] sunrise
[X] UlseDovThur

[X][React] Finish the work on the Sacred Forest.
No. of Votes: 6
[X] Random Member
[X] Chrestomanci
[X] demonthese2211
[X] HanEmpire
[X] NoxOfUmbra
[X] Qeqre

[X][React] Begin construction of the Stone Wall.
No. of Votes: 4
[X] NoxOfUmbra
[X] Chrestomanci
[X] HanEmpire
[X] Qeqre

[X][React] Reach out to the Zaradysh and Boarfolk nomads.
No. of Votes: 3
[X] Random Member
[X] nat_401
[X] veekie

[X][React] Make effort to expand the military long term.
No. of Votes: 2
[X] NoxOfUmbra
[X] Chrestomanci

[X][React] Study the secrets of magic and metal.
No. of Votes: 2
[X] NoxOfUmbra
[X] Chrestomanci


Total No. of Voters: 13
 
Ok. Guys. Doing the Sacred Forest is not a priority right now. It will be done during the main turn by the Province Action. And even if for some mystical reason it's not we have three whole turns to do it before the quest runs out.

Taking advantage of the Forlucs/Caradyshs weakness however is Extremely time sensitive. Like, "get this done ASAP" sensitive.
 
[X][React] Reach out to the Zaradysh and Boarfolk nomads.

I think encouraging revolt is far too risky as of now. If the revolters do win, then we get the Caradysh crushed and an ally among the Forluc, sure. If they lose though, Urth will be legitimized, the Caradysh will have replenished their army with wights, and this could all be blamed on us. It's far too risky for me personally.

Instead, I would advocate creating allies among those who remain that aren't the Forluc/Caradysh. Heavy Cav would absolutely dominate the Forluc in the lowlands plains, and doing this would leave Urth without the boost to legitimacy they would get otherwise if the revolt failed.
 
Raichu1972 said:
[X][React] Reach out to the Zaradysh and Boarfolk nomads.

I think encouraging revolt is far too risky as of now. If the revolters do win, then we get the Caradysh crushed and an ally among the Forluc, sure. If they lose though, Urth will be legitimized, the Caradysh will have replenished their army with wights, and this could all be blamed on us. It's far too risky for me personally.

Instead, I would advocate creating allies among those who remain that aren't the Forluc/Caradysh. Heavy Cav would absolutely dominate the Forluc in the lowlands plains, and doing this would leave Urth without the boost to legitimacy they would get otherwise if the revolt failed.
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All trying to gain allies elsewhere will do is give Urth Time to rebuild the caradysh and Forluc. Trying to get their help is going to be a multi turn thing. Even if the rebellion fails it will deny them of two subordinates and a martial hero.

The sooner we hit them the better. Their military's are severely reduced by our invasion of the forest and the Caradyshs invasion of the Forluc. If we wait even two turns all that damage will be repaired and our opening will be gone making the future war so much harder than it needs to be.
 
For those voting to encourage the rebellion, it is the high risk, high reward option. You could crush your main two rivals if it goes well, but if it fails, you will have strengthen Galdae by removing her main source of internal opposition unrest alongside strengthen her tenuous legitimacy.

On a related note, the Forden and Fornn are already in a state of ignoring Galdae's commands and refusing to acknowledge her authority. Encouraging them to rebel would be encourage them to take up arms against her.
 
Oshha said:
Furthermore, while the Forluc in their homeland had been really to accept Galdae as their new ruler, the returning Farke lacked support in both the Forden the Fornn. Opposition to Farke Galdae and the Caradysh were rally in the Forden around a local champion called Gredan and the Fornn were outright refusing to obey Farke Galdae.
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I think this is supposed to be ready @Oshha

Also possibly missing an and here.
Raichu1972 said:
I think encouraging revolt is far too risky as of now. If the revolters do win, then we get the Caradysh crushed and an ally among the Forluc, sure. If they lose though, Urth will be legitimized, the Caradysh will have replenished their army with wights, and this could all be blamed on us. It's far too risky for me personally.
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What's to say the Forden/Fornn won't revolt anyway?

For that matter, what's to say Caradysh/Forluc historians won't cast the blame on us?

...and now I'm thinking we probably have better shit to do. Retracting my vote for inciting rebellion.

Edit: :ninja:
 
UlseDovThur said:
All trying to gain allies elsewhere will do is give Urth Time to rebuild the caradysh and Forluc. Trying to get their help is going to be a multi turn thing. Even if the rebellion fails it will deny them of two subordinates and a martial hero.

The sooner we hit them the better. Their military's are severely reduced by our invasion of the forest and the Caradyshs invasion of the Forluc. If we wait even two turns all that damage will be repaired and our opening will be gone making the future war so much harder than it needs to be.
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There is an option to attack them you know, and it's not the one that incites rebellion.

If there was a way to encite rebellion while joining the Forden, I would be down for it in a heart beat. As it is now though, all they are likely to do is to get themselves killed.
 
Oshha said:
Fixed. Thanks for pointing those out.



Spend your actions in the upcoming Main Turn doing that.
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Isn't there some time that passes between mid turns and main turns? I remember it being at least a few years.
By then it's entirely possible that the vassals have already been crushed, which still makes it too risky for me.
 
Raichu1972 said:
There is an option to attack them you know, and it's not the one that incites rebellion.

If there was a way to encite rebellion while joining the Forden, I would be down for it in a heart beat. As it is now though, all they are likely to do is to get themselves killed.
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We could just attack the Forluc and hope it triggers the Forden and Fornn to also rebel? Of course, there's always the risk that we accidentally drive them into Urth's hands instead....
 
Raichu1972 said:
There is an option to attack them you know, and it's not the one that incites rebellion.

If there was a way to encite rebellion while joining the Forden, I would be down for it in a heart beat. As it is now though, all they are likely to do is to get themselves killed.
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Ok, let's list this out;
Option 1: we don't incite rebellion and wait to attack until next turn. This gives Urth, sly bastard that he is, time to rebuild and to calm the unrest in his subordinates so that when we attack next turn there's a good chance that the Forden and Fornn join him against us along with their martial hero. Worst option.

Option 2: we don't incite rebellion and we attack right now. This prevents him from rebuilding and calming unrest but it also stops us from launching a full scale invasion as we just use the Mid-Turn Action instead of all of our Main turn actions and it will give him the chance to at least try and use us, the foreign invaders, to rally the Forden and Fornn against us. They might also join us but it's highly doubtful. They'll probably just sit it out.

Option 3: We incite rebellion and wait to attack until next turn. Either the rebellion wins and we win or it fails and denies him his two subordinates and a martial hero while also preventing him from spending time rebuilding. At worst it gives him a bit of a boost to his wight numbers and solidifies him politically. This also buys us time to use our main turn actions for a full scale invasion and letting us also refill our martial stat.
 
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UlseDovThur said:
Option 2: we don't incite rebellion and we attack right now. This prevents him from rebuilding and calming unrest but it also stops us from launching a full scale invasion as we just use the Mid-Turn Action instead of all of our Main turn actions and it will give him the chance to at least try and use us, the foreign invaders, to rally the Forden and Fornn against us. They might also join us but it's highly doubtful. They'll probably just sit it out.
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It might also get our hero and army killed and captured.
 
If the Forden + hero don't oppose Urth and the Arthwyd don't take actions that involve Urth, wouldn't Urth's bonuses drop down to 50%?

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Instead of Rushing them, we could just Boom. Bet on the combined Arthrynite factions' ability to grow stronger faster than Urth's minions.

The Maradysh entered this turn as a 3-action faction after all. And the Caermyr:
Oshha said:
Caermyr had much greater success as it reached out to the neighbours. Reaching out to the local barbarian tribes around them, the Arthwydish trading outpost found lowlanders very eager to open trade and diplomatic relations with Caermyr. Food, security and riches were enough to entice many of the tribes into voluntarily entering Caermyr's umbrella.
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seem to be integrating the faction-less descendants of the failed Zarannist states that collapsed during the drought. The villages involved are probably small, but that might change if our religious trade post was disseminating the teachings of Arthryn.

Mind, we might want to switch to a triple Infrastructure policy and spam-settle a fourth province(while filling out Sunrise Bay) if we do this. Policies stronk.

Optional: claim the Stone Wall megaproject bonus while the Forluc are busy dealing with their vassals+devastation. This could swing the military balance of power in our favour long enough for us to start snowballing right and proper.
 
Qeqre said:
And the Caermyr:
seem to be integrating the faction-less descendants of the failed Zarannist states that collapsed during the drought. The villages involved are probably small, but that might change if our religious trade post was disseminating the teachings of Arthryn.
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Please note that when it says local, it means very local as it is only some of the villages within the same province province as Caermyr. It isn't far reaching the lowlands and it is only being done very locally to great success.
 
Qeqre said:
If the Forden + hero don't oppose Urth and the Arthwyd don't take actions that involve Urth, wouldn't Urth's bonuses drop down to 50%?

-------

Instead of Rushing them, we could just Boom. Bet on the combined Arthrynite factions' ability to grow stronger faster than Urth's minions.

The Maradysh entered this turn as a 3-action faction after all. And the Caermyr:

seem to be integrating the faction-less descendants of the failed Zarannist states that collapsed during the drought. The villages involved are probably small, but that might change if our religious trade post was disseminating the teachings of Arthryn.

Mind, we might want to switch to a triple Infrastructure policy and spam-settle a fourth province(while filling out Sunrise Bay) if we do this. Policies stronk.

Optional: claim the Stone Wall megaproject bonus while the Forluc are busy dealing with their vassals+devastation. This could swing the military balance of power in our favour long enough for us to start snowballing right and proper.
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I guess that would be;
Option 4: don't incite rebellion and don't attack next turn. With this we would try and out scale and out build them while their busy with internal problems so as to gain an advantageous position over them.

I'm not sure why we would do this when we are already in such a position with their military's gutted and infrastructure damaged with rebellious subordinates while our military is in fine shape, recently bloodied and our infrastructure completely untouched and pristine. All we need to do is capitalize on their current weakness.

Remember that even if our invasion doesn't go well, even if we're actually forced out and get our asses handed to us we'll still be doing more damage to them then they'll be doing to us. We'll be fighting on their turf so whatever is damaged will be theirs and all we have to do is try again. Remember how we fought the Zaradysh? We just outlasted them. Because whatever happens to our military the Arthwyd as a whole will be basically uneffected thanks to our wholely professional army.

Even if they really anchor down and roll like Gods we can simply grind them down in a war of attrition until we can get a breakthrough. Hell its literally what we just did to the Caradysh. We just focused on killing as many of them as possible and didn't bother with actually taking territory and after a while they just ran out of bodies to throw at us.
 
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Oshha said:
Please note that when it says local, it means very local as it is only some of the villages within the same province province as Caermyr. It isn't far reaching the lowlands and it is only being done very locally to great success.
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If they had been branching to other provinces, I would've expected a mention of the Zaradysh given how they are adjacent to one another.

It's still a bit of a Raradysh situation. One that could spread as more villages find success under the Pax Arthryn.
 
Also, as a thought for consideration. Say we don't incite rebellion and we invade and knock the Forluc and Caradysh out and the Forden and Fornn didn't get involved. What happens after? Odds are the Forden and Fornn fight over what's left or one falls in behind the other and not long after we have Forluc 2: Electric Boogaloo.

Now say we do incite rebellion, it fails, and the Forden and Fornn collapse. Then we invade and knock out the Forluc and Caradysh. There won't be any faction ready to pickup what's left after the fact. Which means we won't have a serious rival in the area anymore and we can be almost garunteed to be left in peace for a good long while.
 
UlseDovThur said:
Also, as a thought for consideration. Say we don't incite rebellion and we invade and knock the Forluc and Caradysh out and the Forden and Fornn didn't get involved. What happens after? Odds are the Forden and Fornn fight over what's left or one falls in behind the other and not long after we have Forluc 2: Electric Boogaloo.

Now say we do incite rebellion, it fails, and the Forden and Fornn collapse. Then we invade and knock out the Forluc and Caradysh. There won't be any faction ready to pickup what's left after the fact. Which means we won't have a serious rival in the area anymore and we can be almost garunteed to be left in peace for a good long while.
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This relies on the assumption that the Forluc will somehow be weaker after the rebellion instead of stronger. The combination of political unification and a newly bolstered undead army means that an invasion after a failed rebellion would likely go worse than simply invading them right now. Knocking out the Forluc and the Caradysh is the most difficult part here, not a forgone conclusion like you seem to imply.
 
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