Insofar as they understand altruism. Which, by any proper definition in the English language, they do not.
IC, they are paternalistic and mistake this for altruism.
Chronicles of Nations Redux - Civ Quest
- Thread starter Oshha
- Start date
- Original
IC, they are paternalistic and mistake this for altruism.
- Location
- United States
Plus, if this is consistent from the situation pre reboot, Arthryn is a concept Goddess anyways, which means that her power isn't based on her worshippers but instead on the concept of the Arthwyd people themselves.
So she has no personal motivation towards obtaining greater population beyond altruism as well.
I guess you could quibble on the word choice, but the end point is that this isn't a calculated move IC to burgeon the population.
- Location
- Australia
Alright, let's stop using the word altruism to satisfy your standards. The Arthwyd still want to help people for the sake of wanting to help people, and want to convert them in majority part because they think conversion will help them a lot. Call that whatever damn word you want, but that's a value the Arthwyd should have and it's a value that Venerate will entrench.
HanEmpire
Delicious
The two are not mutually exclusive. The Arthwyd practice paternalistic altruism in that they have found a successful form of society that ensures no one goes hungry, and freely give teachings and aid to others that come to them in need.
I don't know why you're so hung up on this point. The Arthwyd don't go to others' lands and force them to convert to Arthwyd ways as imperialists would do. What's the issue?
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- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
If you want to continue this discussion, I'm going to politely request you to provide your definition of altruism and paternalism because you are clearly operating on a different definition of those terms to the other posters in this debate.
Arthryn is a still a Concept Goddess.
1 : unselfish regard for or devotion to the welfare of others
2. the principle or practice of unselfish concern for or devotion to the welfare of others (opposed to egoism).
3 Altruism is when we act to promote someone else's welfare, even at a risk or cost to ourselves.
4 the attitude of caring about others and doing acts that help them although you do not get anything by doing those acts:
5 The word altruism literally means "other-ism"; and it is the philosophy of doing things purely for the benefit of others, without expecting to get anything out of it yourself.
My issue is that Altruism is an antonym to Egoism* - which is morality as derived from the pursuit of one's own self interests - and that the helping of others not being to one's own benefit(if not actively detrimental to one's self) is an actual part of the definition of Altruism.
Saying that something is beneficial to one's self and asserting that it is still Altruistic is like saying that a red thing is indeed red but also blue.
As Cadlon, Bronwyn is representing the Arthwyd(and possibly the Maradysh due to the circumstances of their vassalage IIRC). The Arthwyd get something out of it, this makes it stop being a truly altruistic act from the position of head of the Arthwyd state. The Goddess Arthryn gets a more secure concept due to there being more people belonging to the concept, this makes it stop being a purely altruistic act on her part, because the concept of the Arthwyd people is harder to destroy.
It's similar to how people started unironically using the word literally to describe things that were figurative until it started to stick. The end result is a redundant amount of words to describe figuratives and vagueness over whether or not something that is described as literal is actually literal.
Sorry if I'm being anal about this.
*not to be confused with Egotism - the overstressing of one's own self worth.
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- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Regardless of the terminology used to describe it, the Arthwyd wish to help the lowlanders by expending their own food supplies and welcoming a bunch of outsiders into their homes because they believe to be the right thing to do. Getting the refugees to assimilate and convert is encouraged by the Arthwyd because they believe their way of life is the best way of doing things and they want to help the refugees become a part of that.
1. Literally religious devotion to the welfare of others - In full
2. Practice of devotion to the welfare of others. - In full
3. Promoting someone else's welfare at COST to ourselves, but without significant risk due to economy disparity. - In full
4. As we do get something this automatically fails. Furthermore this definition if used strictly is rather unlikely to occur in a real environment
5. As we IC wise do not care if we get something out of it this is still partially met, we would do it even if we got nothing.
2. Practice of devotion to the welfare of others. - In full
3. Promoting someone else's welfare at COST to ourselves, but without significant risk due to economy disparity. - In full
4. As we do get something this automatically fails. Furthermore this definition if used strictly is rather unlikely to occur in a real environment
5. As we IC wise do not care if we get something out of it this is still partially met, we would do it even if we got nothing.
HanEmpire
Delicious
You're essentially saying that we should keep the word "altruism" reserved for charity givers who are also emotionless automatons that stay unrecognized at all times. If they don't do that then they'll receive positive recognition, and that means they get advantageous things; from the outside they'll get adoration/loyalty/worship, and from within they'll feel self-satisfaction and happiness. According to your definitions that means they're egoistic and thus selfish, regardless of intent.
That's a ridiculous wordplay. Why have positive descriptors at all if you're going to rationalize it all away?
And I accept that i's done out of compassion, that they think it's the right thing to do and that it is in line with their beliefs.
I just reject the term Altruism in this context, beyond the nearest term in the Arthwyd language being a different(yet outwardly similar) concept.
Purists do actually regard the emotional Helper's High that motivates people who help others as a form of Hedonism(and therefore a form of Egoism and subsequently not Altruistic) and argue that actual altruism is something very difficult to do as a result. And recognition ties into concepts like Karma and Enlightened Self-Interest. The latter of which being a descriptor for seemingly altruistic actions that are ultimately rooted in selfishness.
I've been drawing the line at tangible benefits, like the labour value of a sudden injection of people(represented by a +4 Temp Econ). I am saying that choosing to help them by going into their lands and advertising our lands as being amazing safe lands of plenty has clear tangible benefits to us. Particularly in the context of there being a way to help them that doesn't help us to the same extent as the [Refugees - Advertise] option does in the form of a trade mission. As the frequency of diplomatic contact with other civs tends to deteriorate over time if not actively maintained(while integrated people still have kids and population is tracked in the background).
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By the way @Oshha , will there be any penalties to the Sacred Forest megaproject if we don't make any progress on it during the reaction turn?
Why are you guys discussing the word "altruism"? It doesn't exist in real life, everything we do, we do it because of internal motivators.
Geeze, if Arthryn thinks converting people is good for them, I don't know if I would say that's selfish, but it's egocentric.
But does it matter? Selfishness and altruism aren't mutually exclussive things, most people do good because it makes them feel good. Instead of arguing wheter it is "selfish" or not, you should actually explain why is it a bad thing for the Arthwyd to be going at it this way.
And in regards to helping the biggest number of people, is it worth it if it makes things harder for us? I'm sure we can deal with whatever comes at us, but one must always think of the future, how bad it would be to have less stability if something happens? a war, bad dice throws, bad climate, etc?
If we take care of ourselves, we'll have the ability to help a lot of people in the long term; but that won't be the case if we selflessly give as much as we can everytime.
Geeze, if Arthryn thinks converting people is good for them, I don't know if I would say that's selfish, but it's egocentric.
But does it matter? Selfishness and altruism aren't mutually exclussive things, most people do good because it makes them feel good. Instead of arguing wheter it is "selfish" or not, you should actually explain why is it a bad thing for the Arthwyd to be going at it this way.
And in regards to helping the biggest number of people, is it worth it if it makes things harder for us? I'm sure we can deal with whatever comes at us, but one must always think of the future, how bad it would be to have less stability if something happens? a war, bad dice throws, bad climate, etc?
If we take care of ourselves, we'll have the ability to help a lot of people in the long term; but that won't be the case if we selflessly give as much as we can everytime.
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'm going to say no because it was done by the Passive Policy. If it was initiated by player action then yes.
1. Not including the "Unselfish" part.
2. Not including the "Unselfish" part.
3. It is, by your own admission, neither a risk or cost to ourselves due to economic disparity.
4. We are indeed getting something. And not a small something. Therefore it does fail.
5. We do not IC wise care, this is true. This does not mean we meet the definition.
They are. They actually are. Altruism is, by definition, antithetical to selfishness.
This is what I meant when I compared it to people who use "Literally" to describe figuratives and how it affects the understanding of the word Literally.
Except that's not how people use that word. I'm sure that while most people know of the notion of altruism as an ideal; when we use it on a daily basis, we're actually refering to selfish altruism (what's good for the group, is good for the individual).
Edit: but yeah, re-reading, I see that you're annoyed because Andres said "Literally", that's understandable. I just don't care as much as I do with: what's the issue with paternalism?
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Not related to the current topic, but I find the contrast in our military between this and the Paths of Civilization quest interesting. Our military is near exclusively elites, further emphasized by just how small our territory is. In Paths of Civilization, well, the levy army wound up becoming a terrifying sight, becoming expys of china.
If the thread is any indication? Most people do not appear to know the actual definition of altruism. As there seems to be a general rejection of the definition even after I provided one from multiple sources.
The actual term for your "Selfish Altruism"(whereby one serves oneself by helping others with the expectation that it will eventually loop back to you) is Enlightened Self-interest.* And while there are
But this goes back to my comparison with the word Literally. If you start using the word to describe its antonym, the term becomes muddled or even meaningless. [Thing A] = Not[Thing B] + [Thing B] = 1-1 = 0.
If Yes is also No, and War is also Peace, what does saying No War mean?
*Which is a term I suspect you may have heard before and might have applied in contexts similar to the ones in which you've heard it being used but which - given that you pegged the concept with the contradictory term of selfish altruism - I also suspect you probably did not look up the definition for if you have heard it before.
- Location
- Pennslyvania
- Pronouns
- She/They
Altruism is often thought of and described as doing something good or nice with no expectations of rewards. Regardless of whether they also benefit, the difference is usually agreed upon to be the difference between something like enlightened self interest and altruism. Intent Matters. And what the Arthwyd are doing is done without any expectation of reward, and sacrificing large amounts of resources for no guaranteed output, IC. I'd call that altruism.
The definition of... Enlightened Self-interest? No, I haven't. I've seen the concept being used in a Quora answer for a dude that was asking about why should one pay taxes. It wasn't something I was looking for, I just came across it thanks to google, while I was trying to decypher the concept of loving somebody for no reason, so I forgot the name quickly, but the concept stayed with me cause it reminded me of some things I've read before about the evolution of altruism.
You're right. That's a bad thing to do. I'm sorry for trying to say both things are the same. But the point I was trying to make is that even if you're right and the Arthwyd aren't being altruistic, it doesn't matter because nobody is.
What matters is not that they aren't being altruistic, but what they are being instead. What is it, and why is it bad?
The "but that's not really altruism" is when we identify how something has an actual benefit to ourselves. And that matters.
Essentially? The concept of Altruism(as either the frontier or the ideal of helping others without self-interest) drives us to to further our understanding of what types of prosocial behaviours are good, how they are good and why they are good.
Paternalism makes the argument that the negatives of some individuals imposing restrictions on others are outweighed by the positive impact such an intervention or restriction can have on the quality of life of the individual that is being restricted - as with parents who see to it that their kids are housed, fed and educated(or with barbarian refugees who are offered shelter, fed, protected, gainfully employed and made beholden to the laws and social norms of Arthwyd society). It's why I consider paternalism(good or bad) is a fairly good fit in this situation.
But if you want a general catch-all term for helping others? How about Benevolent? Or Kind? Or Charitable?
What is it that made these terms fall out of fashion to a point where we are eroding the nuance of Altruism?
1105 AG - Haven in the North
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] [Maradysh] Send a lot of food along with weapons and shields along priests and priestesses. (-2 Temp Econ, -1 Temp Martial, -1 Temp Mystic)
[X] [Refugees] Advertise the lands of the Arthwyd as a place of food and safe haven. (-1 Stability, Small Chance of Stability Loss, -1 Temp Martial, +4 Temp Econ next Main Turn)
[X] [MAIN] Venerate the Goddesses
[X] [SEC] Study Nature.
Merntir = [SEC] Study Metal, [SEC] Settle Land = Southern North Coast Plains.
Maradysh = [SEC] Settle Land = Lower North Green River, [SEC] More Fishing.
As the lack of rain became the norm and lowlanders began to flee north in hopes of finding sanctuary, Cadlon Bronwyn made the decision to actively encourage the lowlanders to seek safety amongst the Arthwyd. The foundations had already been lain by the Caradysh for reasons unknown to the Arthwyd and the Arthwyd just had to send a few packs of Cateyes to provide confirmation of the stories from the Arthwyd themselves.
The endeavour proved successful, almost too successful. What was a trickle of families and loners fleeing north ended up as thousands of desperate people making their way up the Green River. It was far more than what the Arthwyd were expecting, but it was not more than they could handle nor was it was unwelcome.
The oldest tales spoke about such things, of Arthryn accepting in a rival tribe for no reason other than it being the right thing, the same tribe that would contain the man who gave Arthryn her daughter Wyrn. The Merntir in the north had been outsiders and enemies until the Arthwyd had generously let them join the light of Arthryn's teachings following a barbaric war. The Maradysh had become increasing civilised over generations as the Arthwyd slowly, but steadily showed the barbarians the way of proper civilisation.
Yet bringing so many barbarians into the Arthwyd wasn't without its difficulties. As expected, the lowlanders had a very different way of doing things and the fact it was expected didn't migrate the difficulties.
The main difficulty is the selfishness of the lowlanders with the refugees looking out for themselves and their bloodkin over the community. Combined with a tendency to consider being stronger to be a good reason to oppress those weaker than you, many of the lowlanders struggle to understand of the idea of everyone being equally important regardless of strength or weakness.
The worst part is the slaves. Many groups fleeing the lowlands have brought that slaves with them. While the slaves are welcomed in alongside their masters, it is made quite clear that the Arthwyd considered their status to be unacceptable and that the slaves would remain free amongst the Arthwyd. There were more than a few incidents where the barbarians got firmly told that their slaves were now free men and woman.
Yet despite the difficulties, the Arthwyd had plenty to win over their new members. Food and security were currently very scarce in the lowlands so when Arthwyd lived up to the tales by providing free food, free housing and protection from harm, the vast majority of refugees were willingly to do what their new neighbours wanted of them. While many weren't happy with what was being requested of them, the feeling of security and safety was enough to tolerate the ways of the Arthwyd.
For their part, the Arthwyd made extra efforts to integrate the refugees into their way of life. Cadlon Bronwyn put the resources of the Arthwyd government behind especially honouring Arthryn and her Daughters with a focus on helping the newcomers adapt to Arthryn's ways and the priesthood fully supported her in this regard. With both the priesthood and the Cadlon throwing their weight behind the endeavour, the refugees were all taught what Arthryn and her Daughters were about and the ways of the Arthwyd, the chosen people of Arthryn. All of them understand how to fit into Arthwyd and live amongst them and with the food and homes being provided, most of the refugees choose to abandon their barbaric lowlander ways in favour of embracing the civilised ways of the Arthwyd.
That wasn't to say that the refugees abandoned all of their old ways and most ended up blending the trappings of the lowlands with the Arthwyd way of life. So long as it didn't cause trouble and didn't violate the teachings of Arthryn, those overseeing the integration were content to let things be. The refugees had already caused enough disruption to the Arthwyd already and nobody was eager for more instability on top on the current disorder.
The Arthwyd weren't the only ones seeing disruption as the result of outsiders. While the Maradysh had eagerly welcomed the food and weapons, they were less eager about the priests and priestesses that came with them. While a few villages listened, most rejected the teachings that the Arthrynites brought with them. At least they did until the drought dragged on to their detriment.
Things didn't get worse, but they didn't get any better either. Rain continued to only come on the rare occasion and there was now an entire generation that never knew the plentiful rains of the past. The Maradysh attempted to get around the poor harvest and lack of game by turning to fishing in the Green River, but even then they failed to bring in the food that they wanted.
With things getting worse for them and the Arthwyd seemingly enduring without any difficulties despite thousands of lowlanders flocking to their lands, the majority of the Maradysh decided that these priests and priestesses may have a point and might be worth listening to.
The continuation of the drought had its own response from the Arthwyd. While the Merntir turned to the study of metal after their attempts at studying magic resulted in a hell gate, the Arthwyd turned to the study of nature. Cadlon Bronwyn was eager to know what caused the lack of rain so she could then find a way to stop it and to that end, she devoted the Arthwyd's resources to the matter.
To the disappointment of Cadlon Bronwyn and the frustration of many, the studies failed. Some blamed the disruption caused by the refugees and how much of the Arthwyd's resources were being used to integrated the lowlanders, but the majority argued that the Arthwyd just lacked the knowledge to understand what was causing the lack of rain.
Everyone knew that there was hardly any rain compared to before and the Cateyes and the priesthood could study the world as it currently stood, but they had nothing to compare it to. They lack any detailed knowledge of what the world was like when the rains regularly came and were unable to say what had changed between now and then.
Cadlon Bronwyn didn't want to consider it a complete waste, but as seasons went by, she became increasingly disinterested in the reports that failed to provide any meaningful information to the situation. What the Cadlon found to be far more interesting was the information on the lowlands that the refugees provided. Knowledge on what happened down there was sparse and while they got limited second-hand information from the lowlanders, it was better than anything that the Arthwyd had previously gotten.
The situation in the lowlands is unpleasant for the Arthwyd even if most of the problems will be long term in nature. The Forluc were ascendant and mostly likely are ascendant. Rising out of what the lowlands called the Great Collapse as the strongest power, the Forluc have only strengthened themselves since.
Located in the centre of the lowlands, the Forluc control either side of a major river from when it comes out of the Cursed Forest to when it ends at a really large lake in the centre of the lowlands, the largest lake short of the ocean itself. The Forluc have leveraged their river to have firm control over all of their territory.
All in all, most of the Arthwyd leadership find the Forluc to be rather disturbing, like a reflection of the Arthwyd if they were barbarians and uncivilised. The Forluc are a mighty nation with sacred warriors and the chosen people of their deity, but where the Arthwyd prefer peace and farming, the Forluc desire war and plunder. The Arthwyd consider everyone to be equal and are welcoming to outsiders thanks to the teachings of Arthryn while Nalnir tells the Forluc to look down on outsiders and that they are superior to everyone else.
The Forluc even have their own equivalents of Evalyn Boarslayer and Gwynlyn the Wise. King Graden kept the Forluc intact at their current capital during the Lowland Collapse just as the Boarslayer saved the Arthwyd and both of them were the first singular rulers of their peoples, reforming their people from a theocracy into a monarchy.
Queen Prade was the granddaughter of Graden and the third monarch of the Forluc. Ruling about the same time at Gwynlyn did, Prade is the main factor behind the current Forluc Empire. A beautiful and charismatic ruler, she convinced many of the Forluc's neighbours to submit to the rule of the Forluc. Chiefs and other rulers were convinced to give up their independent in exchange for personal benefits for themselves and their families whilst the lives of the average lowlander went unchanged. Those who resisted found their villages looted and plundered by raiding parties, the spoils divided up as rewards for those who willingly submitted to the Forluc. Prade was also able to exploit the weird lowlander obsession with blood ties as the Zaradysh and Coltyre chiefs were able to marry their sons and daughters to the daughters and sons of the prominent Forluc families, somehow strengthening relations between them by doing this.
From what the refugees have to say, these tactics are a historic thing as while tales remain, the Forluc acting like this ended with Prade's death three or four generations ago. But the damage was already done. Queen Prade was able to split off half of the Zaradysh and Coltyre and from what the refugees have to say, those halves are now the stronger halves.
Almost all of the refugees come from either the Zaradysh or the Coltyre. The former live to the west of the Green River in the northern lowlands while the latter live on the eastern side. The Coltyre were doing somewhat well before the drought as while they were no match for the Forluc Empire, they had decent numbers and major rivers between them and the Forluc Empire. The Zaradysh were in a worse position with no inherent barriers between them and the Forluc to their south. In hopes of fending off the Forluc advance, the Zaradysh had aligned themselves with the Caradysh, but any hope of a coalition stopping the Forluc was dashed when Arthwyd ransacked the Cursed Forest and a plague outbreak devastated the Zaradysh.
To the south of the Forluc, accurate information is hard to come by. It is known that Queen Prade didn't limit her tactics to the lowlanders north of her and the Forluc have more subordinates to the south. But the matter appears to be a bit more complicated as these barbarians to the far south were apparently in a civil war when Queen Prade convinced the half closest to the Forluc to submit to the Forluc in exchange for support. The Arthwyd haven't been able to get a handle on the exact politics, but the refugees do provide enough to know that there are complexities to it that remain unknown to the Arthwyd.
Overall, the lowlands are in bad shape. The Zaradysh are gutted and unable to put up meaningful resistance for the next few generations whilst the lands south of the Forluc were invaded and devastated by accursed Boarfolk a generation before the drought. The Coltyre are scrapping by but have been weakened for at least the next generation by this drought while the Forluc getting by like the Arthwyd are even if their subordinates are suffering.
The future of the lowlands isn't good for the Arthwyd. The Forluc are going strong whilst all of their rivals have been left too weak to resist them if the drought ends. Conquest of the lowlands by the Forluc is almost a certainty at this point and it has those in the know worried. Many fear that these conquering barbarians won't be content with the lowlands and will attempt to make their way north with the Caradysh to the west and the Boarfolk to the east. The Maradysh should be sufficient at stopping any invasions via the Green River long enough for reinforcements to arrive, but the remaining settlements around Rockbay are walled up just in case the Forluc come via Rock River instead.
Of course, the future Forluc dominance of the south isn't the only problem from the lowlands that the Arthwyd have to deal with. The refugees have been integrating into proper society nicely, but it has brought a problem to the notice of the Cadlon and her advisors. The Arthwyd have spent the last several generations filling out their existing settlements rather than building new ones. Whilst this has been migrated with some new villages in the Greenbay area, the Arthwyd are looking at the possibilities of not having enough space for everyone in a generation or two.
Matters aren't helped by the fact that even more refugees are making their way north as the drought drags on and tales of the Arthwyd's food and safety spreads. Whilst the priesthood is eager to continue helping the refugees, some of the village elders have been making noises that the previous ones were disruptive enough and with space beginning to run low, it might be a good idea to turn back new more lowlanders seeking safe haven in the Arthwyd or at least some of them.
More lowlanders are making their way along the Green River to seek haven with the Arthwyd. What do the Arthwyd do?
[] [Refugees] Deny the lowlanders entry into Arthwydish lands. (???)
[] [Refugees] Accept some of the lowlanders seeking refuge in the north. (Small Chance of Stability Loss, +1 Temp Econ next Mid Turn)
[] [Refugees] Accept some of the lowlanders seeking refuge and send the rest to the Merntir. (Medium Chance of Stability Loss, -1 Temp Diplo, +1 Temp Econ next Mid Turn)
[] [Refugees] Accept all of the lowlanders seeking refuge in the north. (Large Chance of Stability Loss, +2 Temp Econ next Mid Turn)
The drought continues, the previous refugees have been rather disruptive, space is beginning to run low and even more refugees are arriving. What does Cadlon Bronwyn devote the resources of the Arthwyd to?
[] [React] Building more villages to fit everyone and to deal with the population problem before it becomes a crisis.
[] [React] Organise more festivals and rituals to reassure the Arthwyd and help integrate the lowlanders into Arthwyd society.
[] [React] Continue efforts to study nature in order to figure out this drought and how to bring back the rains.
[] [React] Switch from studying nature to studying magic to find a way to stop the drought with the magic of the Goddesses.
I'm writing this the morning after I finished writing the update so I may have missed a few things. With the tied vote, I ended going for Advertise as the winning option for, well, I'll admit that I can't actually recall why I broke the tie in its favour, but it was broken in favour of Advertise by me.
Anyway, you got poor rolls this turn with only the rolls for integrating the refugees getting above fifty. Looking back it, only integrating the refugees went well. You failed to get anything out of the Study Nature action, but fortunately you can't crit fail an innovation roll. You did badly on Stability with losing the extra possible point of stability and failed to get any back from Venerating. You did do a very good job of integrating the refugees however so while most of them are not fully assimilated, they are all assimilated enough not to cause further disruption to Arthwyd society despite the instability caused by integrating them.
You also have more refugees coming in thanks to a lack of improvement in the lowlands and more people getting desperate enough to try their chances amongst the Arthwyd. You can turn them away if you don't want further disruption, but you don't know the consequences of doing so. You don't have the option to advertise this time around, but that is because you have already done so to the best of your ability.
Bronwyn also uncovered a brewing crisis as the Arthwyd have a high population, but haven't been expanding. As a result, you are densely populated and if you don't make more room for that population, you are looking at becoming overpopulated. This would become a Minor Crisis which would become a Major Crisis if still left unaddressed, but you sort of solved this problem when you switched to an Expansion Passive Policy. It isn't solved mind you, but it is on the path of being resolved without player input.
In other news, you finally got a view of just what is going on in the lowlands. The Forluc are ascendant and this drought has actually ended up benefiting them as while it isn't good for them, it is far worse for their neighbours. Unless some disaster strikes the Forluc, they are looking at near-total dominance over the known lowlands once the drought ends. This means interesting things in the future, but those things aren't necessarily good or bad.
Please point out any spelling or grammar mistakes that you spot. Please quote them in the thread and explain what you think is wrong so I know what you are referring to. Feel to ask questions for more details and information.
[X] [Refugees] Advertise the lands of the Arthwyd as a place of food and safe haven. (-1 Stability, Small Chance of Stability Loss, -1 Temp Martial, +4 Temp Econ next Main Turn)
[X] [MAIN] Venerate the Goddesses
[X] [SEC] Study Nature.
Merntir = [SEC] Study Metal, [SEC] Settle Land = Southern North Coast Plains.
Maradysh = [SEC] Settle Land = Lower North Green River, [SEC] More Fishing.
As the lack of rain became the norm and lowlanders began to flee north in hopes of finding sanctuary, Cadlon Bronwyn made the decision to actively encourage the lowlanders to seek safety amongst the Arthwyd. The foundations had already been lain by the Caradysh for reasons unknown to the Arthwyd and the Arthwyd just had to send a few packs of Cateyes to provide confirmation of the stories from the Arthwyd themselves.
The endeavour proved successful, almost too successful. What was a trickle of families and loners fleeing north ended up as thousands of desperate people making their way up the Green River. It was far more than what the Arthwyd were expecting, but it was not more than they could handle nor was it was unwelcome.
The oldest tales spoke about such things, of Arthryn accepting in a rival tribe for no reason other than it being the right thing, the same tribe that would contain the man who gave Arthryn her daughter Wyrn. The Merntir in the north had been outsiders and enemies until the Arthwyd had generously let them join the light of Arthryn's teachings following a barbaric war. The Maradysh had become increasing civilised over generations as the Arthwyd slowly, but steadily showed the barbarians the way of proper civilisation.
Yet bringing so many barbarians into the Arthwyd wasn't without its difficulties. As expected, the lowlanders had a very different way of doing things and the fact it was expected didn't migrate the difficulties.
The main difficulty is the selfishness of the lowlanders with the refugees looking out for themselves and their bloodkin over the community. Combined with a tendency to consider being stronger to be a good reason to oppress those weaker than you, many of the lowlanders struggle to understand of the idea of everyone being equally important regardless of strength or weakness.
The worst part is the slaves. Many groups fleeing the lowlands have brought that slaves with them. While the slaves are welcomed in alongside their masters, it is made quite clear that the Arthwyd considered their status to be unacceptable and that the slaves would remain free amongst the Arthwyd. There were more than a few incidents where the barbarians got firmly told that their slaves were now free men and woman.
Yet despite the difficulties, the Arthwyd had plenty to win over their new members. Food and security were currently very scarce in the lowlands so when Arthwyd lived up to the tales by providing free food, free housing and protection from harm, the vast majority of refugees were willingly to do what their new neighbours wanted of them. While many weren't happy with what was being requested of them, the feeling of security and safety was enough to tolerate the ways of the Arthwyd.
For their part, the Arthwyd made extra efforts to integrate the refugees into their way of life. Cadlon Bronwyn put the resources of the Arthwyd government behind especially honouring Arthryn and her Daughters with a focus on helping the newcomers adapt to Arthryn's ways and the priesthood fully supported her in this regard. With both the priesthood and the Cadlon throwing their weight behind the endeavour, the refugees were all taught what Arthryn and her Daughters were about and the ways of the Arthwyd, the chosen people of Arthryn. All of them understand how to fit into Arthwyd and live amongst them and with the food and homes being provided, most of the refugees choose to abandon their barbaric lowlander ways in favour of embracing the civilised ways of the Arthwyd.
That wasn't to say that the refugees abandoned all of their old ways and most ended up blending the trappings of the lowlands with the Arthwyd way of life. So long as it didn't cause trouble and didn't violate the teachings of Arthryn, those overseeing the integration were content to let things be. The refugees had already caused enough disruption to the Arthwyd already and nobody was eager for more instability on top on the current disorder.
The Arthwyd weren't the only ones seeing disruption as the result of outsiders. While the Maradysh had eagerly welcomed the food and weapons, they were less eager about the priests and priestesses that came with them. While a few villages listened, most rejected the teachings that the Arthrynites brought with them. At least they did until the drought dragged on to their detriment.
Things didn't get worse, but they didn't get any better either. Rain continued to only come on the rare occasion and there was now an entire generation that never knew the plentiful rains of the past. The Maradysh attempted to get around the poor harvest and lack of game by turning to fishing in the Green River, but even then they failed to bring in the food that they wanted.
With things getting worse for them and the Arthwyd seemingly enduring without any difficulties despite thousands of lowlanders flocking to their lands, the majority of the Maradysh decided that these priests and priestesses may have a point and might be worth listening to.
The continuation of the drought had its own response from the Arthwyd. While the Merntir turned to the study of metal after their attempts at studying magic resulted in a hell gate, the Arthwyd turned to the study of nature. Cadlon Bronwyn was eager to know what caused the lack of rain so she could then find a way to stop it and to that end, she devoted the Arthwyd's resources to the matter.
To the disappointment of Cadlon Bronwyn and the frustration of many, the studies failed. Some blamed the disruption caused by the refugees and how much of the Arthwyd's resources were being used to integrated the lowlanders, but the majority argued that the Arthwyd just lacked the knowledge to understand what was causing the lack of rain.
Everyone knew that there was hardly any rain compared to before and the Cateyes and the priesthood could study the world as it currently stood, but they had nothing to compare it to. They lack any detailed knowledge of what the world was like when the rains regularly came and were unable to say what had changed between now and then.
Cadlon Bronwyn didn't want to consider it a complete waste, but as seasons went by, she became increasingly disinterested in the reports that failed to provide any meaningful information to the situation. What the Cadlon found to be far more interesting was the information on the lowlands that the refugees provided. Knowledge on what happened down there was sparse and while they got limited second-hand information from the lowlanders, it was better than anything that the Arthwyd had previously gotten.
The situation in the lowlands is unpleasant for the Arthwyd even if most of the problems will be long term in nature. The Forluc were ascendant and mostly likely are ascendant. Rising out of what the lowlands called the Great Collapse as the strongest power, the Forluc have only strengthened themselves since.
Located in the centre of the lowlands, the Forluc control either side of a major river from when it comes out of the Cursed Forest to when it ends at a really large lake in the centre of the lowlands, the largest lake short of the ocean itself. The Forluc have leveraged their river to have firm control over all of their territory.
All in all, most of the Arthwyd leadership find the Forluc to be rather disturbing, like a reflection of the Arthwyd if they were barbarians and uncivilised. The Forluc are a mighty nation with sacred warriors and the chosen people of their deity, but where the Arthwyd prefer peace and farming, the Forluc desire war and plunder. The Arthwyd consider everyone to be equal and are welcoming to outsiders thanks to the teachings of Arthryn while Nalnir tells the Forluc to look down on outsiders and that they are superior to everyone else.
The Forluc even have their own equivalents of Evalyn Boarslayer and Gwynlyn the Wise. King Graden kept the Forluc intact at their current capital during the Lowland Collapse just as the Boarslayer saved the Arthwyd and both of them were the first singular rulers of their peoples, reforming their people from a theocracy into a monarchy.
Queen Prade was the granddaughter of Graden and the third monarch of the Forluc. Ruling about the same time at Gwynlyn did, Prade is the main factor behind the current Forluc Empire. A beautiful and charismatic ruler, she convinced many of the Forluc's neighbours to submit to the rule of the Forluc. Chiefs and other rulers were convinced to give up their independent in exchange for personal benefits for themselves and their families whilst the lives of the average lowlander went unchanged. Those who resisted found their villages looted and plundered by raiding parties, the spoils divided up as rewards for those who willingly submitted to the Forluc. Prade was also able to exploit the weird lowlander obsession with blood ties as the Zaradysh and Coltyre chiefs were able to marry their sons and daughters to the daughters and sons of the prominent Forluc families, somehow strengthening relations between them by doing this.
From what the refugees have to say, these tactics are a historic thing as while tales remain, the Forluc acting like this ended with Prade's death three or four generations ago. But the damage was already done. Queen Prade was able to split off half of the Zaradysh and Coltyre and from what the refugees have to say, those halves are now the stronger halves.
Almost all of the refugees come from either the Zaradysh or the Coltyre. The former live to the west of the Green River in the northern lowlands while the latter live on the eastern side. The Coltyre were doing somewhat well before the drought as while they were no match for the Forluc Empire, they had decent numbers and major rivers between them and the Forluc Empire. The Zaradysh were in a worse position with no inherent barriers between them and the Forluc to their south. In hopes of fending off the Forluc advance, the Zaradysh had aligned themselves with the Caradysh, but any hope of a coalition stopping the Forluc was dashed when Arthwyd ransacked the Cursed Forest and a plague outbreak devastated the Zaradysh.
To the south of the Forluc, accurate information is hard to come by. It is known that Queen Prade didn't limit her tactics to the lowlanders north of her and the Forluc have more subordinates to the south. But the matter appears to be a bit more complicated as these barbarians to the far south were apparently in a civil war when Queen Prade convinced the half closest to the Forluc to submit to the Forluc in exchange for support. The Arthwyd haven't been able to get a handle on the exact politics, but the refugees do provide enough to know that there are complexities to it that remain unknown to the Arthwyd.
Overall, the lowlands are in bad shape. The Zaradysh are gutted and unable to put up meaningful resistance for the next few generations whilst the lands south of the Forluc were invaded and devastated by accursed Boarfolk a generation before the drought. The Coltyre are scrapping by but have been weakened for at least the next generation by this drought while the Forluc getting by like the Arthwyd are even if their subordinates are suffering.
The future of the lowlands isn't good for the Arthwyd. The Forluc are going strong whilst all of their rivals have been left too weak to resist them if the drought ends. Conquest of the lowlands by the Forluc is almost a certainty at this point and it has those in the know worried. Many fear that these conquering barbarians won't be content with the lowlands and will attempt to make their way north with the Caradysh to the west and the Boarfolk to the east. The Maradysh should be sufficient at stopping any invasions via the Green River long enough for reinforcements to arrive, but the remaining settlements around Rockbay are walled up just in case the Forluc come via Rock River instead.
Of course, the future Forluc dominance of the south isn't the only problem from the lowlands that the Arthwyd have to deal with. The refugees have been integrating into proper society nicely, but it has brought a problem to the notice of the Cadlon and her advisors. The Arthwyd have spent the last several generations filling out their existing settlements rather than building new ones. Whilst this has been migrated with some new villages in the Greenbay area, the Arthwyd are looking at the possibilities of not having enough space for everyone in a generation or two.
Matters aren't helped by the fact that even more refugees are making their way north as the drought drags on and tales of the Arthwyd's food and safety spreads. Whilst the priesthood is eager to continue helping the refugees, some of the village elders have been making noises that the previous ones were disruptive enough and with space beginning to run low, it might be a good idea to turn back new more lowlanders seeking safe haven in the Arthwyd or at least some of them.
More lowlanders are making their way along the Green River to seek haven with the Arthwyd. What do the Arthwyd do?
[] [Refugees] Deny the lowlanders entry into Arthwydish lands. (???)
[] [Refugees] Accept some of the lowlanders seeking refuge in the north. (Small Chance of Stability Loss, +1 Temp Econ next Mid Turn)
[] [Refugees] Accept some of the lowlanders seeking refuge and send the rest to the Merntir. (Medium Chance of Stability Loss, -1 Temp Diplo, +1 Temp Econ next Mid Turn)
[] [Refugees] Accept all of the lowlanders seeking refuge in the north. (Large Chance of Stability Loss, +2 Temp Econ next Mid Turn)
The drought continues, the previous refugees have been rather disruptive, space is beginning to run low and even more refugees are arriving. What does Cadlon Bronwyn devote the resources of the Arthwyd to?
[] [React] Building more villages to fit everyone and to deal with the population problem before it becomes a crisis.
[] [React] Organise more festivals and rituals to reassure the Arthwyd and help integrate the lowlanders into Arthwyd society.
[] [React] Continue efforts to study nature in order to figure out this drought and how to bring back the rains.
[] [React] Switch from studying nature to studying magic to find a way to stop the drought with the magic of the Goddesses.
***
Priests (4) = Mood: Concerned, Ability: Add faction power to Stability or Legitimacy Rolls, Objective: Accept more refugees, Success/Failure: +1 Stability/-
Elders (3) = Mood: Happy, Ability: Add half of their faction power to another faction, Objective: Improve the Stability of the Arthwyd, Success/Failure: +1 Temp Econ/-1 Temp Econ
Warriors (5 (6)) = Mood: Pleased, Ability: Add half of faction power to Martial, Objective: Build the Stone Wall in 4 Turns, Success/Failure: Free Martial Innovation/-
Farmers (1) = Mood: Worried, Ability: Add half of faction power to Econ, Objective: Found more settlements, Success/Failure: +1 Temp Econ/-
Crafters (1) = Mood: Happy, Ability: Add half of faction power to Culture, Objective: Study Metal, Success/Failure: +1 Temp Econ/-
Elders (3) = Mood: Happy, Ability: Add half of their faction power to another faction, Objective: Improve the Stability of the Arthwyd, Success/Failure: +1 Temp Econ/-1 Temp Econ
Warriors (5 (6)) = Mood: Pleased, Ability: Add half of faction power to Martial, Objective: Build the Stone Wall in 4 Turns, Success/Failure: Free Martial Innovation/-
Farmers (1) = Mood: Worried, Ability: Add half of faction power to Econ, Objective: Found more settlements, Success/Failure: +1 Temp Econ/-
Crafters (1) = Mood: Happy, Ability: Add half of faction power to Culture, Objective: Study Metal, Success/Failure: +1 Temp Econ/-
***
I'm writing this the morning after I finished writing the update so I may have missed a few things. With the tied vote, I ended going for Advertise as the winning option for, well, I'll admit that I can't actually recall why I broke the tie in its favour, but it was broken in favour of Advertise by me.
Anyway, you got poor rolls this turn with only the rolls for integrating the refugees getting above fifty. Looking back it, only integrating the refugees went well. You failed to get anything out of the Study Nature action, but fortunately you can't crit fail an innovation roll. You did badly on Stability with losing the extra possible point of stability and failed to get any back from Venerating. You did do a very good job of integrating the refugees however so while most of them are not fully assimilated, they are all assimilated enough not to cause further disruption to Arthwyd society despite the instability caused by integrating them.
You also have more refugees coming in thanks to a lack of improvement in the lowlands and more people getting desperate enough to try their chances amongst the Arthwyd. You can turn them away if you don't want further disruption, but you don't know the consequences of doing so. You don't have the option to advertise this time around, but that is because you have already done so to the best of your ability.
Bronwyn also uncovered a brewing crisis as the Arthwyd have a high population, but haven't been expanding. As a result, you are densely populated and if you don't make more room for that population, you are looking at becoming overpopulated. This would become a Minor Crisis which would become a Major Crisis if still left unaddressed, but you sort of solved this problem when you switched to an Expansion Passive Policy. It isn't solved mind you, but it is on the path of being resolved without player input.
In other news, you finally got a view of just what is going on in the lowlands. The Forluc are ascendant and this drought has actually ended up benefiting them as while it isn't good for them, it is far worse for their neighbours. Unless some disaster strikes the Forluc, they are looking at near-total dominance over the known lowlands once the drought ends. This means interesting things in the future, but those things aren't necessarily good or bad.
Please point out any spelling or grammar mistakes that you spot. Please quote them in the thread and explain what you think is wrong so I know what you are referring to. Feel to ask questions for more details and information.
The Arthwyd
Early Ancient Theocratic Elective Monarchy
Upper Centralization Limit: 8
Lower Centralization Limit: -2
Admin Strain Free Provinces: 4
Penalty Accumulation: Additional +2 Lower Centralisation required per 1 Province
Player Actions: 2 Secondary Actions +1 Secondary Action per 2 Provinces
Province Actions: 1 Secondary Action per 2 Provinces
Passive Policies: 1 +1 per 2 Provinces.
Subordinates: 1
Special: -1 Temp Econ Damage per a Province
Special: Free Subordinate Slot for Subordinates that share the same religion per a point of Legitimacy.
Special: Monarchs are more likely to be competent.
Early Ancient Palace Economy
Temp Econ Damage: Event, -1 per 1 Centralisation.
Wealth Generation: 1 per Dominant.
Passive Policies: 1 +1 per 2 Provinces.
Additional Actions: None
Special: Negative Centralisation or lower than Minimum Centralisation will lead to collapse.
Special: Increased polity size will raise the level of Minimum Centralisation required.
Stats
Diplo: 2 (2)
Econ: 14 (6)
Martial: 6 (4)
Mystic: 1 (1)
Culture: 1 (3)
Tech: 0 (0)
Wealth: 0 (0)
Legitimacy: 4/3
Stability: 1/3
Centralisation: 4
Hierarchy: 3
Prestige: 18
Statuses
Great Drought: No Temp Econ regeneration, -1D6 Temp Econ each turn.
Diplomatic Relations
Your opinion/Their opinion/Frequency of Contact
Boarfolk Nomads = Evil/Unknown/None
Caradysh = Ultimate Evil/Angry/Very Limited
Coltyre = Unknown/Unknown/None
Forluc = Unknown/Unknown/None
-Fordysh = Unknown/Unknown/None
-Forfolk = Unknown/Unknown/None
Zaradysh = Enslaving Raiders/War/Minor Raids
Subordinates
Type/Loyalty/Dependence
Maradysh = Vassal/High/Low
Merntir = Religious Vassal/Very High/Very Low
Values & Legacies
Agricultural Innovators: +1 Temp Econ to Farming actions.
Ancient Centre of Civilisation (Great Bay): Extra Innovation Roll at the start of each turn,
Chosen of Arthryn: Gain +1 to all Innovation Rolls.
Rush Builders: Extended Projects take less actions, but each action is more expensive.
Completed Megaprojects
Technologies
Early Ancient Theocratic Elective Monarchy
Upper Centralization Limit: 8
Lower Centralization Limit: -2
Admin Strain Free Provinces: 4
Penalty Accumulation: Additional +2 Lower Centralisation required per 1 Province
Player Actions: 2 Secondary Actions +1 Secondary Action per 2 Provinces
Province Actions: 1 Secondary Action per 2 Provinces
Passive Policies: 1 +1 per 2 Provinces.
Subordinates: 1
Special: -1 Temp Econ Damage per a Province
Special: Free Subordinate Slot for Subordinates that share the same religion per a point of Legitimacy.
Special: Monarchs are more likely to be competent.
Early Ancient Palace Economy
Temp Econ Damage: Event, -1 per 1 Centralisation.
Wealth Generation: 1 per Dominant.
Passive Policies: 1 +1 per 2 Provinces.
Additional Actions: None
Special: Negative Centralisation or lower than Minimum Centralisation will lead to collapse.
Special: Increased polity size will raise the level of Minimum Centralisation required.
Stats
Diplo: 2 (2)
Econ: 14 (6)
Martial: 6 (4)
Mystic: 1 (1)
Culture: 1 (3)
Tech: 0 (0)
Wealth: 0 (0)
Legitimacy: 4/3
Stability: 1/3
Centralisation: 4
Hierarchy: 3
Prestige: 18
Statuses
Great Drought: No Temp Econ regeneration, -1D6 Temp Econ each turn.
Diplomatic Relations
Your opinion/Their opinion/Frequency of Contact
Boarfolk Nomads = Evil/Unknown/None
Caradysh = Ultimate Evil/Angry/Very Limited
Coltyre = Unknown/Unknown/None
Forluc = Unknown/Unknown/None
-Fordysh = Unknown/Unknown/None
-Forfolk = Unknown/Unknown/None
Zaradysh = Enslaving Raiders/War/Minor Raids
Subordinates
Type/Loyalty/Dependence
Maradysh = Vassal/High/Low
Merntir = Religious Vassal/Very High/Very Low
Values & Legacies
Agricultural Innovators: +1 Temp Econ to Farming actions.
Ancient Centre of Civilisation (Great Bay): Extra Innovation Roll at the start of each turn,
Chosen of Arthryn: Gain +1 to all Innovation Rolls.
Rush Builders: Extended Projects take less actions, but each action is more expensive.
Communal Mandate
As per the words of the goddess, loyalty and kindness to one's people is of the highest importance and even when times are tough or when it is not personally beneficial, one should stick by their community.
Pros: Reduced Internal Discontent, Increased Resistance to Foreign Intrigue,
Cons: Increase stability loss from taking actions which harm the People,
Born Equal
While the choices of a person and the world around them can make a person greater or lesser, everyone is born equal to each other.
Pros: Decreased social stratification,
Cons: Decreased social stratification,
Sacred Defence
The People do not abandon their own for it is their sacred duty to protect each other. They stand by their neighbours and community through thick and thin and do not yield when it comes to protecting their fellows for that is their duty as commanded by the goddesses.
Pros: Increased Unity during times of crisis, Sacred Warriors, Increased loyalty from religious subordinates,
Cons: Legitimacy loss when abandoning members of the People to harm and danger, increased Legitimacy loss when the threat is from those with conflicting beliefs,
As per the words of the goddess, loyalty and kindness to one's people is of the highest importance and even when times are tough or when it is not personally beneficial, one should stick by their community.
Pros: Reduced Internal Discontent, Increased Resistance to Foreign Intrigue,
Cons: Increase stability loss from taking actions which harm the People,
Born Equal
While the choices of a person and the world around them can make a person greater or lesser, everyone is born equal to each other.
Pros: Decreased social stratification,
Cons: Decreased social stratification,
Sacred Defence
The People do not abandon their own for it is their sacred duty to protect each other. They stand by their neighbours and community through thick and thin and do not yield when it comes to protecting their fellows for that is their duty as commanded by the goddesses.
Pros: Increased Unity during times of crisis, Sacred Warriors, Increased loyalty from religious subordinates,
Cons: Legitimacy loss when abandoning members of the People to harm and danger, increased Legitimacy loss when the threat is from those with conflicting beliefs,
Completed Megaprojects
Extended Sunrise Mountain Passage
A grand pathway through the Sunrise Mountains, this passage was carved out over generations with hard work and divine aid. Now it stands completing, forging a safe route overland between the Arthwyd in the south and the Merntir in the north.
Effects: +1 Temp Mysticism whenever a travel-based infrastructure project is completed,
A grand pathway through the Sunrise Mountains, this passage was carved out over generations with hard work and divine aid. Now it stands completing, forging a safe route overland between the Arthwyd in the south and the Merntir in the north.
Effects: +1 Temp Mysticism whenever a travel-based infrastructure project is completed,
Technologies
Carts
Straw/Reed Rope
Wheel
Wicker
Agriculture
Basic Fertiliser (Primitive Compost & Manure)
Basic Irrigation
Primitive Concept of Growth Energy
Two-Field Crop Rotation
Construction
Surveying
Fishing & Boats
Canoes
Fishing Nets
Rafts
Sails (Rafts)
Walnut Oil
Waterproofing
Hunting
Baits
Materials
Bone
Fired Bricks
Native Copper
Native Gold
Silver
Tin
Stone
Wood
Medicine
Dosage
Herbalism
Painkillers
Poisons
Metallurgy
Kilns
Lead Smelting
Silver Smelting
Tin Smelting
Straw/Reed Rope
Wheel
Wicker
Agriculture
Basic Fertiliser (Primitive Compost & Manure)
Basic Irrigation
Primitive Concept of Growth Energy
Two-Field Crop Rotation
Construction
Surveying
Fishing & Boats
Canoes
Fishing Nets
Rafts
Sails (Rafts)
Walnut Oil
Waterproofing
Hunting
Baits
Materials
Bone
Fired Bricks
Native Copper
Native Gold
Silver
Tin
Stone
Wood
Medicine
Dosage
Herbalism
Painkillers
Poisons
Metallurgy
Kilns
Lead Smelting
Silver Smelting
Tin Smelting
Administration
Cuneiform
Stone Record Keeping
Tally Marks
Arts
Earthenware Pottery
Stone Carvings
Vocal Storytelling
Diplomacy
Expeditions
Gifting
Immigrants
Negotiations
Refugees
Trade
Leadership
Big Man
Cadlons
Elders
Elections
Local Leadership Delegation
Priests
Religion
Priests
Sacred Animals
Shrines
Tribute
Cuneiform
Stone Record Keeping
Tally Marks
Arts
Earthenware Pottery
Stone Carvings
Vocal Storytelling
Diplomacy
Expeditions
Gifting
Immigrants
Negotiations
Refugees
Trade
Leadership
Big Man
Cadlons
Elders
Elections
Local Leadership Delegation
Priests
Religion
Priests
Sacred Animals
Shrines
Tribute
Defences
Palisade
Personal Protection
Hide Shields
Wicker Shields
Wood Shields
Organisation
Dedicated Scouts
Hunting Groups
Sacred Warriors
Theory
Ambush Tactics
Shield Walls
Weapons
Bows & Arrows
Divine Magic
Javelins
Maces
Slings
Spears
Palisade
Personal Protection
Hide Shields
Wicker Shields
Wood Shields
Organisation
Dedicated Scouts
Hunting Groups
Sacred Warriors
Theory
Ambush Tactics
Shield Walls
Weapons
Bows & Arrows
Divine Magic
Javelins
Maces
Slings
Spears
General
Divine Magic
All-Seerist Divine Magic
Future Seeing (Crude Limited)
Guided Attacks (Limited)
Increased Accuracy (Basic)
Scrying (Limited)
Truth Detecting (Basic)
Arthrynite Divine Magic
Stone Manipulation (Limited)
Trait Self-Boosting (Basic)
Ymarnite Divine Magic
Increased Weapon Skill (Basic)
Wound Healing (Basic)
Divine Magic
All-Seerist Divine Magic
Future Seeing (Crude Limited)
Guided Attacks (Limited)
Increased Accuracy (Basic)
Scrying (Limited)
Truth Detecting (Basic)
Arthrynite Divine Magic
Stone Manipulation (Limited)
Trait Self-Boosting (Basic)
Ymarnite Divine Magic
Increased Weapon Skill (Basic)
Wound Healing (Basic)
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- Location
- Australia
We definitely have to take in at least some refugees. That faction reward from the priests is amazing. The real questions are how many to let in and whether to venerate or build a settlement. We risk crime and plague with overcrowding, but letting in everyone would both save a bunch of people from slavery, starvation, and barbarism, and best of all it might upgrade a value (or at the very least make progress to an upgrade), maybe even give us a legacy. A new settlement would let us fit in all the extra people no problem, but it also leaves a whole bunch of lowlanders who haven't been properly integrated, and it means we'll have no chance of 3/3 stability, and greater odds of staying at 1 Stability.
- Location
- Australia
@Oshha I'm not sure if write ins are a thing here or how they work, but I do have an idea for how to deal with this situation.
Firstly, we accept some of the refugees, but we don't reject the rest. Instead, we send them to the Maradysh, who have space, a bunch of our priests, and high Loyalty to us. They accomodate the rest of the refugees and integrate them. At the same time, we send them more food so as not to stretch their supplies or anything.
We'd basically be doing a lesser version of what we did this main turn: accept refugees (but less than last time), an action (instead of two actions), and send aid (no weapons, possibly no priests.)
This plan might set back our efforts to civilise the Maradysh's culture a bit, but they're a work in progress anyway so if that does happen it just costs us a bit of time. On the other hand, helping and integrating refugees like we are may make the Maradysh culturally closer to us, which would be a positive thing.
Firstly, we accept some of the refugees, but we don't reject the rest. Instead, we send them to the Maradysh, who have space, a bunch of our priests, and high Loyalty to us. They accomodate the rest of the refugees and integrate them. At the same time, we send them more food so as not to stretch their supplies or anything.
We'd basically be doing a lesser version of what we did this main turn: accept refugees (but less than last time), an action (instead of two actions), and send aid (no weapons, possibly no priests.)
This plan might set back our efforts to civilise the Maradysh's culture a bit, but they're a work in progress anyway so if that does happen it just costs us a bit of time. On the other hand, helping and integrating refugees like we are may make the Maradysh culturally closer to us, which would be a positive thing.
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- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The latter as Bronwyn and the priesthood consider the former to be a very bad way of integrating the lowlanders into Arthwyd society.
Write-ins aren't allowed, but I can be persuaded to aid new vote options.
In this case, it could work in theory if it wasn't for the Maradysh. The Maradysh have no desire to take in the refugees and their attitude is very much "Screw you, I've got mine" towards outsiders like the refugees as they still retain their xenophobia Value. They don't mind sending them along to the Arthwyd because the Arthwyd are a bunch of wierdos who do wierdo things, but they don't want to accept any refugees, not even for payment.