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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Alliterate said:
Time to write a paper on Mathilde's Hierarchy of Needs.
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  1. Physiological needs- these are biological requirements for human survival, e.g. air, food, drink, shelter, clothing, warmth, sex, sleep.
    1. Mostly met we have a great tower. Although our sex life sucks. Unfortunately not a problem that money or a boon is likely to fix very well.
  2. Safety needs- protection from elements, security, order, law, stability, freedom from fear.
    1. Retaking the Krag has basically taken care of this. We likely live in one of the safest places in the world right now.
  3. Love and belongingness needs- after physiological and safety needs have been fulfilled, the third level of human needs is social and involves feelings of belongingness. The need for interpersonal relationships motivates behaviour. Examples include friendship, intimacy, trust, and acceptance, receiving and giving affection and love. Affiliating, being part of a group (family, friends, work).
    1. We are respected by our peers and basically everyone who we interact with. A random dwarf in a random hold is more likely then not to look upon us favorably.
  4. Esteem needs- which Maslow classified into two categories: (i) esteem for oneself (dignity, achievement, mastery, independence) and (ii) the desire for reputation or respect from others (e.g., status, prestige). Maslow indicated that the need for respect or reputation is most important for children and adolescents and precedes real self-esteem or dignity.
    1. Our skills are fairly great and well respected. They can be improved, but it is hard to buy more skill with money or boons. Unless there is some lore I am missing.
  5. Self-actualization needs- realizing personal potential, self-fulfillment, seeking personal growth and peak experiences. A desire "to become everything one is capable of becoming"
    1. We are nowhere close to maxing out our potential. My biggest worry is that age might be thing thing that stops that. Is there any way that the Boon could buy (ethical) immorality?
 
fictionfan said:
Self-actualization needs - realizing personal potential, self-fulfillment, seeking personal growth and peak experiences. A desire "to become everything one is capable of becoming"
  1. We are nowhere close to maxing out our potential. My biggest worry is that age might be thing thing that stops that. Is there any way that the Boon could buy immorality?
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Clearly the solution is to hole up in the College for a few years for classes and learn everything there is to learn. Then work towards Ulgu Ascension or Shallya blessings.
 
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Saidoro said:
I'm going to take a moment to recommend A Fire Upon The Deep to anyone who finds The We interesting. And relatedly to point out that if The We isn't entirely unique it could plausibly have romantic feelings towards other hives as a means of acquiring a wider range of genetic material/preventing inbreeding.
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You mean A Deepness in the Sky. That's the one with the spiderlike aliens.
 
Wait was it ever decided on whether Mathilde would actually have a love life/sexual anything. I mean I remember both husbando and romantic votes but besides that was anything concretely decided
 
For people who like giant spiders, Mother of Learning is awesome.
They have a fascinating culture and while only part of a support cast, have a notable presence in the work.

Edit: As for Mathilde, having more gold is not a bad thing. It just means we have to get more creative.

I am still holding out for starting Mathilde's own Ranaldite knight/templar order (a la Taal's Longshanks) or her own vampirehunter mercenary contractors. :D
 
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Kaida said:
Wait was it ever decided on whether Mathilde would actually have a love life/sexual anything. I mean I remember both husbando and romantic votes but besides that was anything concretely decided
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Way way back when the cast was competently different. Kind of would like to see another vote. Would not mind getting into a relationship with one of the wizards.
 
Andmeuths said:
Eh, if I was to dig into the narrative, I'd confidently say that Mathilde wants to make the world a better place, even after she is gone.

I'd also confidently say that Mathilde is zealous for Ranald.

I'd also confidently say Mathilde loves the very notion of collecting.

I'd also say Mathilde has grandoise world changing plans.

I'd say Mathilde fundamentally values the acquisition and creation of new Knowledge as an endeavor unto itself, as an act of intellectual curiosity.

I'd also say Mathilde has grand aspirations to make Institutions that make a difference to the world, just like the Institute of the Grey College saved her.

I'd say Mathilde has aspirations for the well being of Institutions - the Empire, the College, Karaz Ankor, the Eight Peaks, Stirland, but also people (Anton, Belegar, so on)

Now, it's amazing if all of these align with one another, but they don't necessarily always. Divided Loyalties.
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You could have just said that Mathilde is doing a good job at being an Avatar of the thread, instead of wasting all these words :V
 
fictionfan said:
Way way back when the cast was competently different. Kind of would like to see another vote. Would not mind getting into a relationship with one of the wizards.
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There's a lot more voters in this quest now I'm guessing compared to then so i wonder how the vote would go now because weren't both romantic votes extremely close?
 
storryeater said:
You could have just said that Mathilde is doing a good job at being an Avatar of the thread, instead of wasting all these words :V
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Yeah, but people will argue past each other otherwise, because the thread wants different things for Mathilde, without making it clear what they want for Mathilde or where they disagree on or where they agree on the principals but disagree on the details. So, I might as well lay it out explicitly how potentially divided Mathilde's loyalties are and invite anyone to object or add to it - because it does matter with questions such as : how Mathilde should use her money, of what Mathilde wants.

Let's be blunt here: all turn votes are essentially a vote of what you want to read Mathilde doing - the mandatory votes are what you always want to read Mathilde doing regardless for whatever reasons (narrative, mechanical, a sense of duty, a need for security) and the personal votes are what you want Mathilde to do for the turn. The thread voting for Mathilde to do Loremaster tells me that Mathilde values learning, knowledge, research and creating legacies with the mind (Eye of Gazul) very, very highly, though whether voters right now share the same sentiment is the other question.
 
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fictionfan said:
  1. Esteem needs
    - which Maslow classified into two categories: (i) esteem for oneself (dignity, achievement, mastery, independence) and (ii) the desire for reputation or respect from others (e.g., status, prestige). Maslow indicated that the need for respect or reputation is most important for children and adolescents and precedes real self-esteem or dignity.​
    1. Our skills are fairly great and well respected. They can be improved, but it is hard to buy more skill with money or boons. Unless there is some lore I am missing.
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Lord Magister would help with this.
 
Andmeuths said:
Yeah, but people will argue past each other otherwise, because the thread wants different things for Mathilde, without making it clear what they want for Mathilde or where they disagree on or where they agree on the principals but disagree on the details. So, I might as well lay it out explicitly how potentially divided Mathilde's loyalties are and invite anyone to object or add to it - because it does matter with questions such as : how Mathilde should use her money, of what Mathilde wants.

Let's be blunt here: all turn votes are essentially a vote of what you want to read Mathilde doing - the mandatory votes are what you always want to read Mathilde doing regardless for whatever reasons (narrative, mechanical, a sense of duty, a need for security) and the personal votes are what you want Mathilde to do for the turn. The thread voting for Mathilde to do Loremaster tells me that Mathilde values learning, knowledge, research and creating legacies with the mind (Eye of Gazul) very, very highly, though whether voters right now share the same sentiment is the other question.
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I am not sure it's learning per se that the voters are after. If you remember, it was a very contentious vote whether we will become a steward or a loremaster.

Hell, marshal route had an ok showing as well, iirc.

Speaking as one of those who voted for Loremaster, it was a mixture of offering most interesting options (bunch of mystery boxes being par for the course for a loremaster) and Mathilde being a genuinely good and versatile candidate for the job, the first human loremaster in history to boot.
 
Horium said:
I am not sure it's learning per se that the voters are after. If you remember, it was a very contentious vote whether we will become a steward or a loremaster.

Hell, marshal route had an ok showing as well, iirc.

Speaking as one of those who voted for Loremaster, it was a mixture of offering most interesting options (bunch of mystery boxes being par for the course for a loremaster) and Mathilde being a genuinely good and versatile candidate for the job, the first human loremaster in history to boot.
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I think that it is a very flexible role also helped. We can basically do anything as part of it. Makes us a much freer agent.
 
fictionfan said:
I guess. Status gains tend to be a never ending treadmill. Also not something that you can really buy with money or Boon. Also it would be a waste for the purpose if it was.
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We explicitly can get lord Magister with a boon. Namely our Great Deed. There's just no real point, because we'll get it anyway conventionally.
 
fictionfan said:
  1. Physiological needs- these are biological requirements for human survival, e.g. air, food, drink, shelter, clothing, warmth, sex, sleep.
    1. Mostly met we have a great tower. Although our sex life sucks. Unfortunately not a problem that money or a boon is likely to fix very well.
  2. Safety needs- protection from elements, security, order, law, stability, freedom from fear.
    1. Retaking the Krag has basically taken care of this. We likely live in one of the safest places in the world right now.
  3. Love and belongingness needs- after physiological and safety needs have been fulfilled, the third level of human needs is social and involves feelings of belongingness. The need for interpersonal relationships motivates behaviour. Examples include friendship, intimacy, trust, and acceptance, receiving and giving affection and love. Affiliating, being part of a group (family, friends, work).
    1. We are respected by our peers and basically everyone who we interact with. A random dwarf in a random hold is more likely then not to look upon us favorably.
  4. Esteem needs- which Maslow classified into two categories: (i) esteem for oneself (dignity, achievement, mastery, independence) and (ii) the desire for reputation or respect from others (e.g., status, prestige). Maslow indicated that the need for respect or reputation is most important for children and adolescents and precedes real self-esteem or dignity.
    1. Our skills are fairly great and well respected. They can be improved, but it is hard to buy more skill with money or boons. Unless there is some lore I am missing.
  5. Self-actualization needs- realizing personal potential, self-fulfillment, seeking personal growth and peak experiences. A desire "to become everything one is capable of becoming"
    1. We are nowhere close to maxing out our potential. My biggest worry is that age might be thing thing that stops that. Is there any way that the Boon could buy (ethical) immorality?
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Quick thoughts:

1. Physiological Needs
- We passed up on sex-life when we passed on Anton's proposal.
- Does Mathilde really need a sex-life? I guess her romance collection suggest yes, but some might disagree.
- Clearly if we want to romance one of the Wizards, we need to consistently spend socials with them. I'm not against dating one of the Wizards and seeing how it turns out, just for a nice change of scenery, never mind the date fails. Mathilde hasn't even started on the dating scene yet, the closest was helping Johann with the pups in the past few years.

2. Safety Needs
- This is actually known by a different name: Quest enders.
- What can kill Mathilde in the Eight Peaks?
- Basically Death in Battle (botched assassinations) or freak experimental (unmodified nat 1 in dangerous experiments)
- Also, the Bursar coming down on our case, if we overstep ourselves
- Dhar Exposure.
- We are going to need another level of rooms, with the explosive range and firing range. There is still more room to improve to reduce our chances of dying in experiments.


3. Love and belongingness needs
- More than fulfilled I think, if you are talking about good enough.
- It could be better though - who is Mathilde's family?

4. Esteem needs
- There are still many useful skills to buy from the college. The only problem is the sheer lack of time.
- Reputation is barely an issue at the current moment. Mathilde is on the up.

5.Self-actualization needs
- Clearly, there are two things we need:
- A longer lifespan
- More AP efficiency, because we have so little time compared to the things we want to do and we don't have the lifespan of an Elf or even Dwarf to take our time to do then.
- Literally, the path to self-actualization IMO is Mathilde working to increase the efficiency of the usage of her time. It doesn't matter what you think Mathilde aims for, since the bottleneck is always time - not money, not reputation, not access (in the Empire and Karaz Ankor). And of course, patience, which the thread has issues with.

Conclusion: Any purchase (no matter how it's paid for) that helps Mathilde with her time is invaluable from her perspective. Any purchase. She needs manhours. Lots of Manhours.

Does anyone disagree with me that the one real thing Mathilde needs regardless of what she actually wants or even values, is time and efficiency with her time? Because almost everything she conceivably could want she can eventually get, if she has enough time/manhours to do so. Shame Speed of Light to brain meat is an act of suicide.

Yes, even resurrecting Abelheim. She just needs to shake loose the time... and be willing to live with the consequences to her sanity and safety such an action would bring.


@BoneyM Would hiring a Perpetual apprentice from the College to act as lab technician/research assistant (doing the grunt acquisition works of normal materials like insects, helping to set up the experiments, cleaning up after the experiments, storing samples, taking written results to the printers to be backed up. so on and so forth) help Mathilde conduct more experiments with her limited time? And if so, by how much? I'm asking partly because it seems to me that things like as complex as the Waystone Collab really needs Mathilde to be able to cover more ground in the same amount of time, so I was wondering how much a Perpetual Apprentice RA alone would help in the efficiency of research actions.

Would Lord Magister status make hiring staff from the Colleges to do grunt research foot work cheaper?
 
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