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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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TotallyNotEvil said:
Even if the sword wasn't up to receiving it, I would still vote for Reforging.

Reforging is what Belegar stands for. It's what Karak Eight Peaks stands for.

And I heartily agree with his stance that the future can be salvaged, that old glories can be regained.

And making a physical symbol of his victory gives weight to his claims. A symbol is something you can rally behind, and a gromril symbol is a statement in and of itself.

This isn't "make a nice statue". It's "show the goddamn world you were right. That it can be done."

It's not remotely the same.

This fellow has been dead three thousand years and counting.

That was giving a grieving father his daughter's things.

You are voting for a random clan in a random Hold suddenly getting a gift.
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In my view, returning it to the Hold it came from also does that. Something one of the direst enemies of the dwarves stole from their dead is being returned to it's rightful owners. Moreover, it shows that Belegar isn't only concerned with K8P and his own enrichment/benefit, but also looking to make right the various wrongs done to his people, that he sees beyond immediate material benefits to doing good for the entire Karaz Ankor, healing old wounds and setting right what has been so violently torn asunder. A new hope for the Dawi.
chocolote12 said:
A statue as opposed to the sword we want.

I'm not sure how Mathilde claiming a portion wouldn't result in a sword, though.
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Like I already said: BECAUSE THE QUESTION BONEY WAS ASKED WAS PREDICATED ON IT BEING USED FOR THE SWORD. You're taking a questions that assumes the scenario your are advocating and using it as evidence that the scenario is true. It is possible, but that doesn't mean it's definite.

Edit: to put it another way, if your roommate asks you "Hey if I use all the milk in the morning, will you go buy some more?" You don't answer, "If you don't use it it, I won't have to buy it."
 
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Next time we add to our library we should get some books on spotting vampires.

Remember that time Countess Gabriella was in the same room we were and we could only determine she was a vampire because she played to all the tropes and all but admitted it. Let's not have that happen again, next time we see a vampire we'll spot it immediately and stake it.

I'm not just saying this because there's a mysterious Brettonian noblewoman without a horse hanging around.
 
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Andres110 said:
My bad.
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Not my bad, you don't just drop here with such an emotional appeal when we are on the knive edge of the vote and get way it my bad based on cofusing a skaven with a dwarf and just walk away, at least you should edit the post to clarify. Because I just know someone is going to be mislead be that.

Gingganz said:
[] [ENCHANTMENT] An item enchanted with Talk With Beast to give to the spiders (3 favors)
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We don't need to buy this now , that is going to be next turn problem and if we need it Belebro will cover the cost.
 
[x] [UNDUMGI] Francesco Caravello, Tilean ex-merchant
His devotion to safe roads is commendable.

I want the spiders to stick around, but not sure what would work best. As it is, they're not a threat, and they eat greenskins and skaven. That's something you want to encourage at any and all occasions.
 
WorldSlayer said:
Next time we add to our library we should get some books on spotting vampires.

Remember that time Countess Gabriella was in the same room we were and we could only determine she was a vampire because she played to all the tropes and all but admitted it. Let's not have that happen again, next time we see a vampire we'll spot it immediately and stake it.
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Wouldn't Windsage let us see their Dhar Vortex?
 
DocMatoi said:
[x] [UNDUMGI] Francesco Caravello, Tilean ex-merchant
His devotion to safe roads is commendable.

I want the spiders to stick around, but not sure what would work best. As it is, they're not a threat, and they eat greenskins and skaven. That's something you want to encourage at any and all occasions.
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Current thought seems to be let them hunt Skaven but guard their nests from retaliation.
 
CuttleFish2.0 said:
Like I already said: BECAUSE THE QUESTION BONEY WAS ASKED WAS PREDICATED ON IT BEING USED FOR THE SWORD. You're taking a questions that assumes the scenario your are advocating and using it as evidence that the scenario is true. It is possible, but that doesn't mean it's definite.
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Please don't shout. I'm typically fairly free with unsure language, because I don't like making direct claims, so it might not have stood out as such, but I did in fact hedge my post; I have not made any assertions as to the surety of a particular result.
 
[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a welcome addition to the multispecies community of Karak Eight Peaks.

The advantages would be substantial. Venom and web, military aid not just here but potentially elsewhere, the reputation we'd get, maybe more. Simple military aid against a single enemy strikes me as not fulfilling all the relationship potential.

[X] [ARMOUR] It should be returned to the Hold it was stolen from, to build strong ties among the Karaz Ankor.

Still my own preference. Getting good relations with the other holds would help Belegar a lot, but that's not all.
warhammerfantasy.fandom.com

Gromril

Gromril, also known as Meteoric Iron[1a][7a][11b], Star Metal[11b], Silverstone[8e][11b], Silversteel[8i] or Hammernought Armour[8e][11b], is the toughest and sturdiest metal in the Known World[8e] and is forged into the best and strongest swords, axes and plate armour.[1b][1c][7a] No weapons...
warhammerfantasy.fandom.com warhammerfantasy.fandom.com
So valuable is gromril armour, wars have fought for the mere possession of a full suit.
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Many dwarfs will want to come to K8P after they hear a full gromril suit was found so soon.
 
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Gingganz said:
TotallyNotEvil has me half-convinced on getting a 25 pt. Sword. However the leading vote is entirely lacking in flavour. If we want the sword to commemorate the taking of (a third of) Karak Eight Peaks, we should mention it.
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The GM has stated multiple times that, the less we say, the better it is.

Let the situation carry the moment. Reforging the gromril into symbols of victory will most likely involve making weapons out of them, as it's less than a full suit of armor but enough for several weapons, and the dwarves (and Belegar) are very keen on using it on useful things, and making weapons to commemorate a military victory is very common.

A victory symbol made out of gromril is a hell of a political statement. Gromril is a cultural icon of Dwarven society, and Belegar has damn near started the first ever dwarf civil war by standing up for the importance of the future, that there is a future for dawi.

"That Hold is dead three thousand years". Doesn't get more radical than that.

And all of the new holds, which extensively aided him, backed him up.

I think something to commemorate their collective victory would go over very, very well.
 
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DocMatoi said:
[x] [UNDUMGI] Francesco Caravello, Tilean ex-merchant
His devotion to safe roads is commendable.

I want the spiders to stick around, but not sure what would work best. As it is, they're not a threat, and they eat greenskins and skaven. That's something you want to encourage at any and all occasions.
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General idea for now is to support them as military allies against the Skaven. It's a little early and unfamiliar for everyone involved to go with full-on integration right now. As time goes on, we fight some battles together, we establish more regular communications, and the two sides get used to it, we can build on that to being officially part of the K8P community.
 
[X] [SPIDER] The We can be allowed to scutter off into the Underway, never to be seen again.
[X] [UNDUMGI] Francesco Caravello, Tilean ex-merchant
[X] [ARMOR] Make no recommendation.

Dwarf Gromril Armor is Dwarf business. If Belegar wants to make a statement he can do so. The Spiders on the other hand are...spiders. Sending them against the gas-warfare-capable Skaven seems cruel and too much to ask. Let them leave.
 
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Andres110 said:
[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a welcome addition to the multispecies community of Karak Eight Peaks.

The advantages would be substantial. Venom and web, military aid not just here but potentially elsewhere, the reputation we'd get, maybe more. Simple military aid against a single enemy strikes me as not fulfilling all the relationship potential.
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It's rushing the relationship though. We don't really know all that much about the spiders and they don't know all that much about us. Best not to rush for consolidation until we have a stronger relationship.

edit: Grey Wizards everywhere.
 
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@BoneyM You've said that human Old World languages are mostly mutually intelligible. Does this mean that it takes less time to learn them than Khazalid did?
 
spiritualatheist said:
Nah, it's an investment, see? Once we secure a commanding position in the Romance Novel Black Market, no one will be able to stand against us! :V
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There's that wizard that uses his library as bait for chaos hordes, and women are currently in short supply in the Karak for all races who aren't halflings. Just think of the benefit Mathilde's horde of dirty, trashy, romantic literature will create by pulling in even more suitors than the ones currently on the way.

I suppose the magical side of things could be used later as a lure to give the dwarves a nice, steady stream of enemies to fight if they run out in the eight peaks and somehow butcher the dragon in Thunder Peak.
 
Night said:
The Spiders on the other hand are...spiders. Sending them against the gas-warfare-capable Skaven seems cruel and too much to ask. Let them leave.
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They were doing just fine hunting Skaven for most of their recent history in Karak Eight Peaks.
BoneyM said:
It seems that the intelligence is distributed rather than centralized, which means that if something is to be remembered for longer than the lifetime of a single node, it needs to be told back and forth - hence, Echo, the period before the birth of the current eldest individual (or this-We). With that you're able to get at least a vague account of its origins - for as far back as it knows, it lived around and preyed upon the furred-four-legs who are usually-food, and it would relocate regularly to prevent an organized retaliation. Then one day it must have passed from the Skaven-occupied Underway to the greenskin-occupied Karag Lhune, and found that while the green-four-legs were less reliably prey, they were also less prone to organizing, so it could build up a nest/web/nursery/home to its liking without being dislodged.
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Plus, the ones that use gas warfare are Clan Skryre, who are on the opposite side of the Karak. Our neighbors are Clan Mors and Clan Moulder.
 
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[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the greenskins.
[X] [UNDUMGI] Francesco Caravello, Tilean ex-merchant
[X] [ARMOUR] It should be reforged into a worthy commemoration of the Karak's rebirth.
[X] [RUNE] 25 Favour Sword
 
WorldSlayer said:
It's rushing the relationship though. We don't really know all that much about the spiders and they don't know all that much about us. Best not to rush for consolidation until we have a stronger relationship.

edit: grey maged.
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We wouldn't be rushing anything. We're not gonna instantly fully trust and integrate them, it'll take time and multiple steps to see what we can do, and through the process we can see if there'll be a problem. If there is, we'll switch to making our max goal being allies with them. We aren't committing to anything yet, just setting goals.
 
chocolote12 said:
Please don't shout. I'm typically fairly free with unsure language, because I don't like making direct claims, so it might not have stood out as such, but I did in fact hedge my post; I have not made any assertions as to the surety of a particular result.
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I wasn't shouting, the caps were for emphasis. I think you need to reexamine how you are communicating in this thread, because, remember, this is what I responded to:
chocolote12 said:
If we reforge it, we'll get a Gromril sword.
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That's not hedging, you are literally saying if we do one thing we will get another. You have left no room in this statement for any uncertainty, you then went on to defend the claim (though you did admit it was not a guarantee, you did so in way as to imply that it was strongly suggested when it was nothing of the kind). I just think you, and to be clear others on the 25 favor Rune Weapon/Reforge side of the current debate, need to speak less conclusively about the sequence of events; it is possible that if reforge wins and the 25 favor Rune Weapon does as well the character will choose to use the gromril to make our new weapon, but they might also choose to do something else. And given that we do not know what other potential commemorations Boney has in mind, we can't really judge how likely either option is.

I don't want voters on the fence to make decisions on uncertain information without knowing that that information is uncertain. So I would appreciate if you would not speak as if things we do not know are guaranteed are.
 
[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the greenskins.
[X] [UNDUMGI] Francesco Caravello, Tilean ex-merchant
[X] [RUNE] 25 Favour Sword
[X] [LIBRARY] Imperial Texts: Extensive/Esoteric Skaven, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Greenskin Magic, Antiquarian Grey Magic (2 College Favor), Extensive Amber Magic, Extensive/Esoteric Romance Novels, Extensive/Esoteric Linguistics, Extensive Warpstone, Extensive Morr, Extensive Karaz Ankor. Dwarf Texts: Extensive Greenskin Magic, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Romance Novels, Extensive Linguistics, Extensive Daemons. Brettonian Texts: Extensive Romance Novels. Tilean Texts: Extensive Romance Novels.
[X] [ARMOUR] It should be reforged into a worthy commemoration of the Karak's rebirth.
 
[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the Skaven.
[X] [UNDUMGI] Francesco Caravello, Tilean ex-merchant
[X] [ARMOUR] Make no recommendation.
[X] [RUNE] 25 Favour Sword
[X] [LIBRARY] No purchase.
[X] [LIBRARY] Imperial Texts: Extensive/Esoteric Skaven, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Greenskin Magic, Antiquarian Grey Magic (2 College Favor), Extensive Amber Magic, Extensive/Esoteric Linguistics, Extensive Warpstone, Extensive Morr, Extensive Karaz Ankor. Dwarf Texts: Extensive Greenskin Magic, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Linguistics, Extensive Daemons
 
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[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the Skaven.
[X] [ARMOUR] It should be returned to the Hold it was stolen from, to build strong ties among the Karaz Ankor.
[X] [UNDUMGI] Francesco Caravello, Tilean ex-merchant
[X] [RUNE] 25 Favour Sword
[X] [LIBRARY] Imperial Texts: Extensive/Esoteric Skaven, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Greenskin Magic, Antiquarian Grey Magic (2 College Favor), Extensive Amber Magic, Extensive/Esoteric Romance Novels, Extensive/Esoteric Linguistics, Extensive Warpstone, Extensive Morr, Extensive Karaz Ankor. Dwarf Texts: Extensive Greenskin Magic, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Romance Novels, Extensive Linguistics, Extensive Daemons. Brettonian Texts: Extensive Romance Novels. Tilean Texts: Extensive Romance Novels.
 
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