Remove ads

Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Voting is open
Reader mode
notanautomaton said:
No, the Second Secret adds the ability to create a chain reaction. The first provides more explosive failures.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The first secret is how to actually use Dhar; not quick and barely touching it like a hot potato, but slowly and deliberately, like taut steel chains that will kill you if they snap.

The second secret is how to make them snap.
 
Guys, I understand the desire for a 25 favor sword, but for those arguing that that's the path to getting Kragg's unfair S10 rune...I really don't think so. That's his personal Mastery Rune, and it's still a dangerous prototype (only a few centuries old). I really don't think he's going to put it on a greatsword as a gift to a manling, even one he likes disapproves of less than most things.
 
A request to the thread to demonstrate interest in spending Favor to acquire Romance Novels.

A Like would be Dwarf Favor only, a Hug would be College Favor only, an Informative would be Both, and an Insightful would be "No, shut up, gold at most for Ranald's sake" :V

primemountain said:
Once you allready have a good reputation, more deeds for the lists helps, but it doesn't grow your reputation the same way greater deeds do. Kragg makes rune isn't reputation enchancing, the same way as Novice Runesmith makes rune, you know? Same principle.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The previous WoG on that is that Favor/Rep gains will remain the same, but the representative gain will be different fluff wise.

Going from 0 to 20 is a much more dramatic gain than from 50 to 70, which is much less dramatic than from 120 to 140, as an example.
 
Now, since it turns out there's no moratorium on regular votes:

[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the greenskins.
[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the Skaven.

I don't actually want them in our bed, but they're cool and we should be friends.

[X] [UNDUMGI] Oswald Oswaldson, Imperial veteran

Because someone who talks like Alex Louis Armstrong but has the trappings of the Addams Family is someone I want to know better. Also, he's Empire, unlike the other two, and can be counted on to back us on pro-Empire things.

[X] [ARMOUR] It should be worn by the first Ironbreaker of the reborn Karak Eight Peaks

Love that symbolism.

[X] [RUNE] No purchase.
[X] [RUNE] 16 Favors.

[X] [LIBRARY] Imperial Texts: Extensive/Esoteric Skaven, Extensive/Antiquarian Skaven Magic, Extensive/Antiquarian Greenskin Magic, Extensive/Esoteric Romance Novels. Dwarf Texts: Antiquarian Skaven, Antiquarian Greenskin, Extensive/Antiquarian Skaven Magic, Extensive/Antiquarian Greenskin Magic, Extensive Romance Novels. Brettonian Texts: Extensive Romance Novels.
[X] [LIBRARY] Imperial Texts: Extensive/Esoteric Skaven, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Greenskin Magic, Antiquarian Grey Magic (2 College Favor), Extensive Amber Magic, Extensive/Esoteric Romance Novels, Extensive/Esoteric Linguistics, Extensive Warpstone, Extensive Morr, Extensive Karaz Ankor. Dwarf Texts: Extensive Greenskin Magic, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Romance Novels, Extensive Linguistics, Extensive Daemons. Brettonian Texts: Extensive Romance Novels. Tilean Texts: Extensive Romance Novels.

That's a total of 2 4 College Favor and 4 8 Dwarf Favor. We can pick up Antiquarian Warptech and Antiquarian Daemons in a few turns, I figure, once we have something we need them for.

More importantly, made up for our oversight RE: Good Literature.
 
Last edited:
zxzx24 said:
So do we have to learn/invent Dhar spells just like normal magic or...?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
No. Nein! Na-ah. Do not pass Go. Put thee behind me. You Shall Not Pass!
Don't think about, don't post about, don't even ask about it. No Dhar. Not even once!

Dhar rots your brain and soul and drives you mad. It is literately why one of the Articles, One of the only ways for Witch Hunters to come after you is if they have proof you are using Dhar.

You start using Dhar you're not a Magister anymore, you're a Dark Magister and everything alive and every Order God that exsists hates you.

Just Don't.

PS: This is how we get Big Red Letters options with Vote Weighing behind them to use Dhar, just the once. Don't.
 
Last edited:
spiritualatheist said:
That kinda flies in the face of what @BoneyM has already said about the humans with the most Favor, I.e. Tobaro, though? If they value long, consistent relationships, then shouldn't we be getting a trickle of favor income just for being Court Wizard?

Unless that gets negated because of how untraditional our position is, I suppose.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Kragg the Grim certainly would have a lot of Dwarf Rep, but that doesn't fully describe how Dwarves feel about Kragg the Grim.

In the same way, the Court Wizard of Karak Eight Peaks will add a new dimension instead of just piling on top of existing flavours.
 
[X] [UNDUMGI] Francesco Caravello, Tilean ex-merchant

[x] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the Skaven.

[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the greenskins.

[X] [ARMOUR] Make no recommendation.
 
I disagree vehemently with the idea that Dhar can be in anyway controlled in a stable fashion.
BoneyM said:
Dhar is horrifically powerful, but unreliable and unstable. The First Secret of Dhar removes everything after the 'but'.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

If that were the case, why in Kroaks name wouldnt have any of the older, more magically attuned races picked it over High Magic. It doesnt seem plausible that Van Hal was the first to realize this. Unless Im mistaking your message, that seems to fly in the face of most what canon magic implies or tells us.
 
10ebbor10 said:
TBH, I don't actually want a game changer, because I like the game as it is. I don't want to turn this into Mathilde's stabs everything, all the time.

To take refuge into metaphor.

I'm saying that we don't need a hammer, because our task is not hammering nails.
You're saying that if we have a hammer, we can find more nails to hammer.
But I don't want to be hammering nails.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Mathilde's job absolutely includes killing enemies and destroying their stuff. It's been a core part of her character from the start. That's why her Martial has increased from 8 to 20. It's why she has learned four Martial skills and no Intrigue or Diplomacy skills. It's because she's the kind of Grey Wizard that takes out the symbol of her office and chops her enemies to pieces with it, not the ones that use it a metaphor about the nature of truth in polite conversation. There are Diplomat-Intrigue focused Grey WIzards, yes, those who focus all their efforts on running spy rings and being the éminence grise who manipulates things behind the scenes. That's never really been Mathilde's focus though. She's always been very keen on the war part of warhammer.
 
Last edited:
soulcake said:
I disagree vehemently with the idea that Dhar can be in anyway controlled in a stable fashion.


If that were the case, why in Kroaks name wouldnt have any of the older, more magically attuned races picked it over High Magic. It doesnt seem plausible that Van Hal was the first to realize this. Unless Im mistaking your message, that seems to fly in the face of most what canon magic implies or tells us.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It can still blow up in your face or drive you mad. The first will just be a matter of insufficient willpower or focus instead of factors outside of your control.
 
soulcake said:
I disagree vehemently with the idea that Dhar can be in anyway controlled in a stable fashion.


If that were the case, why in Kroaks name wouldnt have any of the older, more magically attuned races picked it over High Magic. It doesnt seem plausible that Van Hal was the first to realize this. Unless Im mistaking your message, that seems to fly in the face of most what canon magic implies or tells us.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Because the part where it drives you mad, corrodes your soul and makes you a sock puppet for the Chaos Gods is left out from that.

EDIT: Controlling Dhar in a stable fashion doesn't mean you don't get to suffer the effects of using Dhar.
 
Last edited:
I'm glad we didn't do any assassination on this scout. In Karag Lhune and the 2nd Karag Var infiltrations, we had an army incoming to take advantage. Note that we refrained from murdering anyone the first time we went into Var; we scouted, then came back, put the reports together and made an informed decision about where we'd do the most good at the right time. In Lhune we took the first opportunities we saw because the throng was already marching and anything we managed in the time was better than nothing. We got a nat 100 on who we sniped - 99% of the time that's Anton's schtick.
 
soulcake said:
I disagree vehemently with the idea that Dhar can be in anyway controlled in a stable fashion.


If that were the case, why in Kroaks name wouldnt have any of the older, more magically attuned races picked it over High Magic. It doesnt seem plausible that Van Hal was the first to realize this. Unless Im mistaking your message, that seems to fly in the face of most what canon magic implies or tells us.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The dark elves did, also Nagash.
 
soulcake said:
I disagree vehemently with the idea that Dhar can be in anyway controlled in a stable fashion.


If that were the case, why in Kroaks name wouldnt have any of the older, more magically attuned races picked it over High Magic. It doesnt seem plausible that Van Hal was the first to realize this. Unless Im mistaking your message, that seems to fly in the face of most what canon magic implies or tells us.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The Secret doesn't stop that every drop of Dhar warps your brain and poisons the earth around you.
 
10ebbor10 said:
TBH, I don't actually want a game changer, because I like the game as it is. I don't want to turn this into Mathilde's stabs everything, all the time.

To take refuge into metaphor.

I'm saying that we don't need a hammer, because our task is not hammering nails.
You're saying that if we have a hammer, we can find more nails to hammer.
But I don't want to be hammering nails.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I agree that a Mathlide who goes looking for opportunities to use her brand new weapon isn't ideal, but I have confidence the @BoneyM will be able to organically weave it into the story. Rather than changing what actions we take, it might change the results table for them; for example, we might have gotten an opportunity to collapse a cavern, or a Skaven fortification or what have you if we rolled well.

Alternatively, it could eliminate certain challenges entirely. If we had the sword, collapsing the gate from Grobitown into the Citadel would have been trivial. And so on and so forth.
 
I do wonder that if we get good enough at manipulating magic (probably at least another windsage upgrade away) we'd be able to use Qhaysh in some of the same ways people can use Dhar (the difficulty being not turning it into Dhar with clumsy handling); like, we'd go somewhere completely and utterly deserted then let some of the snake juice evaporate, and try and grab hold of it with ulgu before it wafts away, and then you'd presumably try either throwing it at something, or shoving it into an item.

On the subject of spiders, we should totally try and have them join a military alliance with us, at the very least; we can help facilitate communication until they are literate and understand umgi/dawi mindsets a bit better, but in exchange for that little effort they're a complete game-changer!

Edit: basically, the only circumstances I can imagine that would lead us to using Dhar spellcasting is if we were literally teleported straight into one of the hellscape regions of mallus; and those chaos marauders/dragon ogres/undead dragons were charging at us right now.
 
Last edited:
soulcake said:
If that were the case, why in Kroaks name wouldnt have any of the older, more magically attuned races picked it over High Magic. It doesnt seem plausible that Van Hal was the first to realize this. Unless Im mistaking your message, that seems to fly in the face of most what canon magic implies or tells us.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The Dark Elves do, but keep in mind that it's still corruptive and bad for everyone around you. And it's inferior to proper High Magic.
 
soulcake said:
If that were the case, why in Kroaks name wouldnt have any of the older, more magically attuned races picked it over High Magic. It doesnt seem plausible that Van Hal was the first to realize this. Unless Im mistaking your message, that seems to fly in the face of most what canon magic implies or tells us.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well, Nagash for one used it amazingly effectively and became one of, if not the, prominent wizard of Warhammer Fantasy. Furthermore, the Dark elves do use Dhar, regularly. I don't know if they've uncovered this particular secret of Dhar though.

Other than that, you need to actually start experimenting with Dhar before you can figure out this little trick. And most of the Elder races just don't bother because of the amazingly corruptive effects on everyone and everything.
 
soulcake said:
If that were the case, why in Kroaks name wouldnt have any of the older, more magically attuned races picked it over High Magic. It doesnt seem plausible that Van Hal was the first to realize this. Unless Im mistaking your message, that seems to fly in the face of most what canon magic implies or tells us.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The dark elves do.

Smart people avoid it because it's evil and will kill you anyways, by degrees, but it is very much useable.
 
soulcake said:
I disagree vehemently with the idea that Dhar can be in anyway controlled in a stable fashion.


If that were the case, why in Kroaks name wouldnt have any of the older, more magically attuned races picked it over High Magic. It doesnt seem plausible that Van Hal was the first to realize this. Unless Im mistaking your message, that seems to fly in the face of most what canon magic implies or tells us.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
What Boney ment is that it can be stable and reliable - as long as You control it perfectly. Noone is really able to. And when it happens it have the same hideous effects on body and soul. Simply put, First Secret of Dhar makes it much more tempting, effective and dangerous, while not reducing side effects in any notable way. If secret is revealed, it would be nightmare for anyone, as any two-bit magicial will become extremely powerful, while still steadily sliding into insanity.
 
Thor's Twin said:
Well, Nagash for one used it amazingly effectively and became one of, if not the, prominent wizard of Warhammer Fantasy. Furthermore, the Dark elves do use Dhar, regularly. I don't know if they've uncovered this particular secret of Dhar though.

Other than that, you need to actually start experimenting with Dhar before you can figure out this little trick. And most of the Elder races just don't bother because of the amazingly corruptive effects on everyone and everything.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

They have. The knowledge contained in this tome is a mix of Nekharan theurgy and the Dark elves Dhar techniques, or more accurately it's Dark elven Dhar techniques through the lens of Nekharan theurgy from the perspective of a what was probably a high priest of Morr.
 
soulcake said:
I disagree vehemently with the idea that Dhar can be in anyway controlled in a stable fashion.


If that were the case, why in Kroaks name wouldnt have any of the older, more magically attuned races picked it over High Magic. It doesnt seem plausible that Van Hal was the first to realize this. Unless Im mistaking your message, that seems to fly in the face of most what canon magic implies or tells us.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well, there are three Elder Races. There's the Lizardmen, who never do anything the Old Ones didn't tell them to do, and generally can't innovate. There's the Elves, who have three factions, two of which use Dhar, and one of which doesn't. And the Dwarves, who don't touch magic without a rune between it and them.

So, why don't the Asur use it? Because they rightfully believe that prolonged contact with Dhar sends you nuts. Coco for cocoa puffs. Insane. Also, they have access to Qhaysh which is just as powerful, but has absolutely no chance of exploding, doesn't require a hellscape to thrive, and is more aesthetically pleasing.


EDIT:
Alratan said:
Everyone around you that isn't an elf, anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I believe it sends Elves insane too, it just doesn't corrupt them in the same way.
 
Last edited:
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Voting is open
Remove ads
Back
Top