'I don't really know exactly what happened, but my interpretation of the magical signs in the moment was that Mork's presence was weakened, although the consequences of that or for how long are unknown to me.'
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
'I don't really know exactly what happened, but my interpretation of the magical signs in the moment was that Mork's presence was weakened, although the consequences of that or for how long are unknown to me.'
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Also, people have been saying that Mork pounding his own side was a product of our work.
That's in no way guaranteed.
It may have been in the form of a Fist, but that spell, the Foot of Gork, works thatcway. Roll bad on the D6, and you get your own side pounded (well, more specifically he opposing player chooses where the foot comes down).
Gork and Mork are as happy to scrap with their boyz as they iz wit da udder gits.
We are simply in no way able to extrapolate any accurate information from this weakening of Mork for reasons explicitly given by the GM, and have equally explicit confirmation that telling of the Warboss' killing and destruction of the Idol as sufficient to get across the general idea even without being explicit as to why the Greenskins went wild.
That's in no way guaranteed.
It may have been in the form of a Fist, but that spell, the Foot of Gork, works thatcway. Roll bad on the D6, and you get your own side pounded (well, more specifically he opposing player chooses where the foot comes down).
Gork and Mork are as happy to scrap with their boyz as they iz wit da udder gits.
We are simply in no way able to extrapolate any accurate information from this weakening of Mork for reasons explicitly given by the GM, and have equally explicit confirmation that telling of the Warboss' killing and destruction of the Idol as sufficient to get across the general idea even without being explicit as to why the Greenskins went wild.
- Location
- Germany
My motto for a war campaign is: When in doubt, tell your commander everything that might be important.
A war is not the right place to be overly secretive with your allies.
Easier to be direct and say at the Council. 'There are more details I need to discuss with some of you but they involve magical matters and secrets of the College that I am not at liberty to discuss at this time.' A Runelord would completely understand that. They know all about guild secrets. As do the other dwarves. As do, frankly, the humans, and they won't want to know about magic.
This isn't suspicious, and won't offend anyone. It's a wizard's job, particularly a Grey Wizards job, to traffic in secret, just as it is all dwarven guild members, which IC the Colleges are modelled on.
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- Location
- some computer lab
But I don't think there were many shamans at that battle
The roll was called [Mork's intervention?: 26.]
No, it's easier to be direct and say it to belegar and Kragg first. Makes far more sense to talk to Belegar and Kragg first. Ask them how much to reveal at the Council. And then we report that much at the council.
This way, we don't run the risk of them going "... Okay, so why did you not report the Mork thing at the Council? Why draw attention to the existence of some secret report you needed to make?"
EDIT: Of course, frankly all of this feels like its an ungainly addition to the vote. A bit that we started arguing over, and debate the fine points of, when actually it would just come off as weird in-universe in application... Like, you know, tripping over yourself in the open air when you didn't need to at all. Just... Awkward. Blah.
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Because it's expected and normal for a Grey Wizard to have secret things to report. She'd mention it so that if other people are brought into the circle of trust later, they won't be surprised or offended. It's also not drawing attention to a secret any more than everything technical to do with magic is secret, and that's something everyone in the room will approve of.
And they would never ask 'why didn't you mention the Mork thing at the Council' if we mentioned guild secrets. They're dwarves. If anyone in the world would understand that you keep secrets about things related to magic, it's them.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
And of course, even putting aside the whole fact that we cannot accurately extrapolate any wider effects from this, any sort of "strategic implications" are irrelevant because it would require leaders of other Dwarf throngs to risk life and honor to find out what if any of a million possible things might have happened on the say so of an Umgi mage.
I mean seriously, what are they supposed to do, launch attacks on stolen Dwarfholds because of the nebulous statement that "Mork is weakened" according to a single person, nevermind an Umgi.
If we were a typical leader in a CKII quest and we saw on the rumor mill that a single mage is claiming an enemy god was weakened, we sure as fuck wouldn't say "now is the time to retake so and so from those damn Greenskins!"
I mean seriously, what are they supposed to do, launch attacks on stolen Dwarfholds because of the nebulous statement that "Mork is weakened" according to a single person, nevermind an Umgi.
If we were a typical leader in a CKII quest and we saw on the rumor mill that a single mage is claiming an enemy god was weakened, we sure as fuck wouldn't say "now is the time to retake so and so from those damn Greenskins!"
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We've no idea what information gathering methods they have or magical detection runes or similar that they can use. We know almost nothing about their high level magical capabilities, as we just saw when Kragg unleashed the Anvil of Power. We don't know what we don't know. Maybe they can't do anything to verify or exploit the information, but it's tremendously arrogant to assume that without even giving them the chance.
Undead-Spaceman
Skeleton Supreme
- Location
- Somewhere in Orbit
The whiskey report is just ridiculous. Your trying to make a compromise where there doesn't need to be one. We killed a Shaman Warboss and stopped an Idol in the making. Telling anyone we weakened Mork is pointless, what are they even gonna do about it? How does that help anyone? The Expedition will keep doing what it's doing and at most, maybe notice a lack Greenskin magic or an usual amount of infighting but otherwise it doesn't make a difference.
Bringing up Ranald just makes it even more confusing. I'm honestly not sure any of these Dwarfs even know or care who Ranald is let alone why empowering him would be a good thing. The few humans here might know about Ranald and they probably won't care for it.
Bringing up Ranald just makes it even more confusing. I'm honestly not sure any of these Dwarfs even know or care who Ranald is let alone why empowering him would be a good thing. The few humans here might know about Ranald and they probably won't care for it.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's also tremendously arrogant to assume a somewhat racist, proud civilization known for being exceedingly cautious with new things will act to confirm the words of a childlish manling playing with dangerous powers because she says a god of their terrible enemy they've learned to never underestimate is weakened.
And it's fully in their rights to dismiss the information we share with them. That though, is their choice. We're not ordering them to act on the information. We're sharing it so they can make the decision, because we trust them to know better than us what their own capabilities are.
All of that is potentially an excuse for why, after you do it, it could be accepted by people as an explanation. Why weird things/actions can be explained. ((Although I'd argue that our straightforwardness and stuff, in our dealings with the Dwarfs, has been why they have been on good relationships with us. Not-acting-like-a-shady-Grey-Wizard, when we give our reports and talk to them, is one reason we've been doing well. Ergo, falling onto the "expected habits of a sneaky spy" suddenly is... eh.))
And anyway. None of that, however, is a reason to do it.
You've explained how we can successfully make excuses for the action, and blame it on Grey Wizard-ness. (Though the more we invoke weird spy stuff, the more shifty we seem, so.) But why?
Also: still easier to tell Belegar first, before the Council, and then see if we need to keep any of that shit back.
Rather than going to the council and being mysterious and mentioning that there's weird secrets to talk about.
- Location
- Brazil
See here is the thing, why would we tell them in the first place ? You seen to be treating Dwarven secrecy as if it was selective when is more than often absolute, if it shouldn't be told to the war council them it shouldn't be told to them.
- Location
- Brazil
Can I ask if you think Mathilde will suddenly act as if she's an utter idiot with no experience or training in intrigue, politics, or military matters?
If one of these very, very minor variations on precisely how we tell the members of the Council who need to know is sensible, then that should be what Mathilde automatically does. We don't need to micromanage every last tiny details of her actions.
Dwarves don't deny runes exist or even hide what they basically do. They just refuse to explain how they're made. They're all about selective secrecy.
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@BoneyM clarified that talking about Mork doesn't mean mentioning the Chaos Dorfs.
- Location
- Brazil
@Garlak The Whiskey Report has us having a word with Belegar after the Council, and if that weren't already clear, the plan itself is called whiskey report for a reason.
Guys, revealing we were the linchpin for actually wounding the Orc Gods is like revealing that we shot Hitler in the balls. Not something you just let go.
Thing is, it also calls on much attention from everyone, and raises big questions.
Revealing it to the most discreet people around, and who coincidentally are also the ones most enthused by it, while also revealing how we did it as to back up our claim, nearly bypasses most issues with it while retaining most benefits.
Guys, revealing we were the linchpin for actually wounding the Orc Gods is like revealing that we shot Hitler in the balls. Not something you just let go.
Thing is, it also calls on much attention from everyone, and raises big questions.
Revealing it to the most discreet people around, and who coincidentally are also the ones most enthused by it, while also revealing how we did it as to back up our claim, nearly bypasses most issues with it while retaining most benefits.
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TheOmnimercurial
Dragon Bard
- Location
- UK
[X] The death of the Warboss and the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol.
[X] Do a Whiskey Report: reveal the Warboss and the Idol to the Council, and have Belegar wrangle Kragg into a private room and reveal Mork and Ranald.
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.
[X] Do a Whiskey Report: reveal the Warboss and the Idol to the Council, and have Belegar wrangle Kragg into a private room and reveal Mork and Ranald.
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
This is not a "gain something or just gain nothing", this is a "gain something or lose something" decision.
Because it's a write-in, and past events, bluntly put. There have been one (or two) other instances in this quest where players decided to add a write-in speech/action to talking to Van Hal, and it ended up being weird and silly. Like asking if there'd be necromancers in Drakenhof. Or the suggestion that Undead autopsies needed Wizards. (Or before that, the thing with the clothes. Which was just sorta facepalming and mild-wince-inducing "... Why?" even a year later.) (So that's, like... three times that it happened in this quest.)
This write-in? It strikes me as like exactly that sort of thing. Where it looks innocuous but comes off as really dumb in practice. And the possibility for it going badly only comes up and exists, because it's a write-in, rather than one
So yeah. Write-ins are exactly that sort of "Why do you think this will be done dumbly?" thing because that's what can happen with awkward or unnecessary or oblivious write-ins.
((Although you also could just turn the question right back on you. Why do you think Mathilde will act like an idiot if we pick one of the presented options. Rather than doing something like checking with Belegar.))
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- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
If we're doing a meta argument...
Ranald rolled a 4. On a 5, which was a higher result, he would have gained a nascent new aspect - which is to say, a roughly 25% boost in power. (Which is being generous, since it assumes the new aspect starts out as powerful as the more established ones.)
I think it's safe to say that with the result that did happen, Ranald got boosted by less. Let's say 20%.
Ranald is a minor god in the human pantheon, who themselves are small compared to Gork and Mork. Those two are the single strongest divinities outside of the Chaos Gods.
Them "only" being 10x larger than Ranald is, again, being generous.
Ergo, at most, Gork/Mork have been weakened by ~2% - and likely significantly less than that, with the author personally providing a huge list of potential factors that would further reduce that number.
That's, frankly, negligible in the larger scale of things.
Edit: Ah, sorry about the OP alerts people. Looks like a bug with the new power given to councillors.
Ranald rolled a 4. On a 5, which was a higher result, he would have gained a nascent new aspect - which is to say, a roughly 25% boost in power. (Which is being generous, since it assumes the new aspect starts out as powerful as the more established ones.)
I think it's safe to say that with the result that did happen, Ranald got boosted by less. Let's say 20%.
Ranald is a minor god in the human pantheon, who themselves are small compared to Gork and Mork. Those two are the single strongest divinities outside of the Chaos Gods.
Them "only" being 10x larger than Ranald is, again, being generous.
Ergo, at most, Gork/Mork have been weakened by ~2% - and likely significantly less than that, with the author personally providing a huge list of potential factors that would further reduce that number.
That's, frankly, negligible in the larger scale of things.
Edit: Ah, sorry about the OP alerts people. Looks like a bug with the new power given to councillors.
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- Location
- Brazil
What the fuck? "The OP, Redshirt Army?"