Who Needs Harmony?: An MLP Empire Quest
- Thread starter Questor
- Start date
- Location
- Darkness
[X] Bear Any Burden
Paying them would just encourage them not only pull this again but give the worst of them enough political clout to stage a coup. A better idea would be to take the pirate island. We would have to do it regardless and if we bring the ringleader(s) head(s) for a more formal visit it will prove our point about being serious and hurt them financially with a decrease in new slaves.
Paying them would just encourage them not only pull this again but give the worst of them enough political clout to stage a coup. A better idea would be to take the pirate island. We would have to do it regardless and if we bring the ringleader(s) head(s) for a more formal visit it will prove our point about being serious and hurt them financially with a decrease in new slaves.
[X] Bear Any Burden
Guys, if we pay them money, what does that say to our allies? To our FAMILY? Remember, OUR DAUGHTER was a slave, until she was freed from her owner. Paying money to slavers doesn't solve the problem, they will just use it to pay for more merc's and pirate raids to get more slaves.
Keep the money, throw the asshole they sent to negotiate with us out on his ear, then spend the money on intrigue actions and expanding the navy/army. Or we could cripple them with a more robust and powerful economy, which could be more easily gained with that money. It wouldn't be hard to do any of this, they have no idea who they are dealing with. Just don't give in to their unreasonable demands and insults, that's not what a good ruler does in this situation.
My advice for the next few turns: Push the yaks to unify in the face of this new threat and ally with them. Work with them to get access to that mountain with the anti-magic metal inside it. Invest in the black knights (obviously). Expand our navy again if possible. CRUSH THOSE PIRATES! Build up defences on the crystal protectorate border. Build up our economy as best as possible (maybe look into those flying machines?). Infiltrate the fuck out of maretonia with our spies. Wreck maretonia's economy and stability with said spies (civil war anyone?).
We have so many options to screw them over. They are overly dependant on slavery to keep functioning, so there is plenty of ways to ruin them without helping them by giving them a lot of our money.
EDIT: Also, remember this: They are asking for OVER HALF of our money that we have in our treasury. It's extremely STUPID to give them that money because it could cripple us in the short term, as they use it to build up stronger. DON'T GIVE THEM THE MONEY!
Guys, if we pay them money, what does that say to our allies? To our FAMILY? Remember, OUR DAUGHTER was a slave, until she was freed from her owner. Paying money to slavers doesn't solve the problem, they will just use it to pay for more merc's and pirate raids to get more slaves.
Keep the money, throw the asshole they sent to negotiate with us out on his ear, then spend the money on intrigue actions and expanding the navy/army. Or we could cripple them with a more robust and powerful economy, which could be more easily gained with that money. It wouldn't be hard to do any of this, they have no idea who they are dealing with. Just don't give in to their unreasonable demands and insults, that's not what a good ruler does in this situation.
My advice for the next few turns: Push the yaks to unify in the face of this new threat and ally with them. Work with them to get access to that mountain with the anti-magic metal inside it. Invest in the black knights (obviously). Expand our navy again if possible. CRUSH THOSE PIRATES! Build up defences on the crystal protectorate border. Build up our economy as best as possible (maybe look into those flying machines?). Infiltrate the fuck out of maretonia with our spies. Wreck maretonia's economy and stability with said spies (civil war anyone?).
We have so many options to screw them over. They are overly dependant on slavery to keep functioning, so there is plenty of ways to ruin them without helping them by giving them a lot of our money.
EDIT: Also, remember this: They are asking for OVER HALF of our money that we have in our treasury. It's extremely STUPID to give them that money because it could cripple us in the short term, as they use it to build up stronger. DON'T GIVE THEM THE MONEY!
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- Location
- Ohio
They don't have any laws about slave wellbeing, right?
There would be pragmatic laws as they are not Sparta, which is faint praise.
Slaves take time, money, and effort from start to finish, and long-lived species could even be heirlooms. (are you going to break your ten grand vase?) Not to mention a slave master would be angry if his neighbor came by and abused their slaves.
In some ways it is worse and some ways better than Sombra.
Better as starvation rations and body pits would be detrimental to the free people in terms of sanitation, land-usage, and resources.
Worse in that slaves could be conditioned from birth, for generations, to be afraid of freedom, to not comprehend how horrible it is someone will want them, if sucessful, to have many children to suffer the same way.
But what I am saying is that it is the bare minimum needed for a "sane" slave master to make their property last till payday. Keyword being sane, as I am sure you can do what you want to your slave, just not your neighbors.
(maybe it varies per province, but I am trying to show some horror that might be missed under anger. And I am sure the gm writi g knows more on this nation than me as he wrote it. )
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Asmodemus
Subversive Element
We're hoping they'll spend it on rebellion against their queen who is centralizing power within the monarchy, especially with us egging them on somehow.
Or at least I am.
- Location
- Sweden
[X] Bear Any Burden
Asmodemus
Subversive Element
Queen Mareia is centralizing power, upsetting her nobles but keeping the upper hand in things.
Suddenly an issue comes about where some other kingdom's subjects got enslaved and they want them back. She tells the nobles to give them up, nobles refuse, blatantly disrespecting her authority with that move but making reasonable sounding demands of wanting reparations for them.. at outrageous prices.
So she decides to toss it up to the foreigners.
It's an outrageous sum so they'll not pay, being insulted by the idiot she sent, they'll be an outside threat that she can point to to keep control going.
Except what happens if we do pay?
Those rebellious nobles get basically a small kingdom's worth of gold handed to them, an extreme windfall. And gold is power, power tends to want more power.
And the queen has been centralizing power within herself instead of the nobility.
If he had rebellious nobles the coin would be going to instead, yes.
Suddenly an issue comes about where some other kingdom's subjects got enslaved and they want them back. She tells the nobles to give them up, nobles refuse, blatantly disrespecting her authority with that move but making reasonable sounding demands of wanting reparations for them.. at outrageous prices.
So she decides to toss it up to the foreigners.
It's an outrageous sum so they'll not pay, being insulted by the idiot she sent, they'll be an outside threat that she can point to to keep control going.
Except what happens if we do pay?
Those rebellious nobles get basically a small kingdom's worth of gold handed to them, an extreme windfall. And gold is power, power tends to want more power.
And the queen has been centralizing power within herself instead of the nobility.
If he had rebellious nobles the coin would be going to instead, yes.
- Location
- MN
she only changed her tune when we proved that we know they had our people and at first was playing dumb. I honestly think she doesn't care about whether or not she has our people in chains, she's just dealing with so much internal issues that the last thing she wants is for an outside party to start causing problems so she was more then willing to give them back once we made it clear to her we know they had them. I mean it sounds like the queen has been trying to gather more power for herself for awhile now and the nobles are using us as an excuse to try and take some of their power back. Hell I'd be willing to bet that short of massing troops on the boarder they probably don't give a flying fig about us other then using us as a tool to push forward their own political goals.
I say use this schism and help it grow into a full blown civil war between the nobles and the crown and let them wear each other out while we deal with the pirates and recover from the recent war we just fought.
Asmodemus
Subversive Element
I naturally agree with this. It's why I'm voting to pay. Because a lot of coin to the rebellious nobles is a problem for her, that she can't just take away. An infusion of funding into the heart of a precarious situation, and money does ever make things more tense.
I think the talks need to be stalled for a while we deal with the pirates and build up transport capacity, possibly with captured pirate vessels. These nobles are too arrogant to believe a war would be forced and they won't spend money on war in the mean time.
Make him meet with the families of those inslaved for example 'to show the cost of slavery'. Also has the benefit of spurring negatitive sentiment about the Maretonian Aristo's in the populous and gives a firmer support for another war despite the previous one being barely finished. Afterwards remind him we have a list of all the slave holders and that if it comes to War as the ones responsible for it all of their estates and holding will be priority targets to leave in ruin. And if any of the named slaves dies or is tortured, well just leave that threat hanging. You could also in principle agree to the price and then demand compensation for loss of work, disruption of trade and government projects caused by the lose to equal or higher value. Confusing him to your priorities would also be useful.
While the pirates are being dealt with there can also be the foundations laid for a slave revolt and some slaves freed that can provide maps and other intelligence to make campaigning smoother.
This War has the potential to be the most dangerous yet with motivated magic users, weather controllers and vast numbers of 'Expendable' troops that need removed from the equation to stop the advance being bogged down. That's going to need a lot of prep.
[X] Stall the talks for build up/propeganda time
-[X] If not possible: Bear Any Burden
Make him meet with the families of those inslaved for example 'to show the cost of slavery'. Also has the benefit of spurring negatitive sentiment about the Maretonian Aristo's in the populous and gives a firmer support for another war despite the previous one being barely finished. Afterwards remind him we have a list of all the slave holders and that if it comes to War as the ones responsible for it all of their estates and holding will be priority targets to leave in ruin. And if any of the named slaves dies or is tortured, well just leave that threat hanging. You could also in principle agree to the price and then demand compensation for loss of work, disruption of trade and government projects caused by the lose to equal or higher value. Confusing him to your priorities would also be useful.
While the pirates are being dealt with there can also be the foundations laid for a slave revolt and some slaves freed that can provide maps and other intelligence to make campaigning smoother.
This War has the potential to be the most dangerous yet with motivated magic users, weather controllers and vast numbers of 'Expendable' troops that need removed from the equation to stop the advance being bogged down. That's going to need a lot of prep.
[X] Stall the talks for build up/propeganda time
-[X] If not possible: Bear Any Burden
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- Location
- Germany
[X] Bear Any Burden
- Location
- Nova Scotia, Canada
[X] Bear Any Burden
This option is not an immediate declaration of war so we can still start prepping for it instead of going straight to fighting. I'd say we expel the emissary without further negotiations and then on our next turn we focus on defenses in the Crystal Protectorate and building up our navy. Then we destroy the pirates, evacuate all the slaves there and either raze it or claim it as a combined naval base for our empire and our allies.
For intrigue actions I think we should use that list of griffon slave owners and have our spies watch to see how the griffon slaves are treated. If they are kept as pets our spies do nothing. If they're mistreated then the owner is assassinated. If the griffon dies then we assassinate the owner and all his or her family.
I'd also like to see us setup an underground railroad effort with help from the abolitionists to start getting slaves freed. We can use that as major propaganda to really undermine their economy when the war starts. Also it will probably seriously hurt their morale if they are using janissary units (slave soldiers) and they see former slaves being welcomed and treated as equals in our empire.
Lastly an enemy with a powerful noble caste and easy access to magic probably means they have a good understanding of curses and assassination spells and experience using them so we should up the personal defenses of ourselves, our family and our advisers.
This option is not an immediate declaration of war so we can still start prepping for it instead of going straight to fighting. I'd say we expel the emissary without further negotiations and then on our next turn we focus on defenses in the Crystal Protectorate and building up our navy. Then we destroy the pirates, evacuate all the slaves there and either raze it or claim it as a combined naval base for our empire and our allies.
For intrigue actions I think we should use that list of griffon slave owners and have our spies watch to see how the griffon slaves are treated. If they are kept as pets our spies do nothing. If they're mistreated then the owner is assassinated. If the griffon dies then we assassinate the owner and all his or her family.
I'd also like to see us setup an underground railroad effort with help from the abolitionists to start getting slaves freed. We can use that as major propaganda to really undermine their economy when the war starts. Also it will probably seriously hurt their morale if they are using janissary units (slave soldiers) and they see former slaves being welcomed and treated as equals in our empire.
Lastly an enemy with a powerful noble caste and easy access to magic probably means they have a good understanding of curses and assassination spells and experience using them so we should up the personal defenses of ourselves, our family and our advisers.
- Location
- Ohio
Sombra had no want or need of money with labor already a depleting resource for him. It would be strange for the evil darkness thing to suddenly smile and offer us his drones after totally wrecking him.
I get what you are saying, bit it is funny to think about it in certain ways.
- Location
- Italy
Let's be fair: we don't know if they have any Sombra/Twilight/Starlight/Starswirl level unicorn battle mage.
Also while Sombra was very strong, he was also an INCREDIBLY SHITTY tactician. If we fight them, they'll be a lot harder to defeat than Sombra.
The difference now is that we don't have to kill them to the last, and their slaves could possibly be persuaded to help and rebel.
I think we should simply let him go. Something like
"You are no longer welcome here. You are no longer my guest, or under my protection. I will not pay for something you have no right on.
Leave and go back to your people, before I do something I might not regret. If you won't give us back our people, we'll get them back another way.
And when that day comes, if even one of them is dead...well, do remember we KNOW exactly who bought them. And we don't forget"
Ok, I'm very sorry I have to be that man but... There MUST be a max value we're willing to put on any individual life. 5000 is more than 3/4 than our yearly income. A few dozen people are not worth that much, sad as it is to say.
If we could be SURE this was a one time thing I might even be inclined to pay, just to avoid the thousands of deaths that come with any war... Except we'd be indirectly acknowledging their right to own our people,and we'd be directly funding their government. Even worse, their WORST nobles!
Think how much they can expand and upgrade their army with that much money, and how many more lives would likely be lost in the coming war.
A few dozen people are not worth that. It's horrible and callous, but it's the truth.
We're the emperor, and we need to think of the long term, big scale consequences of our actions.
It's also an horrible precedent to set.
We've lost THOUSANDS of people in our past wars because we judged the reason we fought for worth the blood price.
To be certain nothing like this ever happens again, to assure the freedom of every citizen of our empire, to keep the faith of our people in us, to maintain our reputations (and yes, reputation IS important) we can't pay.
Hopefully we can weaken them enough with intrigue, maybe even cause a civil war/slave uprising... But we can't coexist with them as they are.
And I'm sure Koryu will agree with me.
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Punchweasel
Maverick Weasel
- Location
- Central Illinois, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Him
[X] Bear Any Burden
- Location
- Germany
[X] Bear Any Burden
I strongly disagree with the people who want to "burn Maretonia to the ground", while completely forgetting that far more innocents would suffer from war than are currently enslaved.
The average Maretonian soldier isn't a noble who owns slaves, yet they'd be the ones who would pay with their life. The average earth pony slave did nothing wrong, yet they'd be the ones worked to exhaustion.
Don't dehumanize/deponify your enemies just because they were raised to think of slavery as normal. They're still people.
War, war never changes. So let's not unleash that horror unless we absolutely have to.
I fully support intrigue actions to assassinate the slave-holders, though, preferably by having Ravensburg's agents swap with a slave before killing their 'masters' so that we have plausible deniability. As a bonus, the same nobles probably include unicorn battle-mages which we would eliminate before Maretonia could field them against us.
I strongly disagree with the people who want to "burn Maretonia to the ground", while completely forgetting that far more innocents would suffer from war than are currently enslaved.
The average Maretonian soldier isn't a noble who owns slaves, yet they'd be the ones who would pay with their life. The average earth pony slave did nothing wrong, yet they'd be the ones worked to exhaustion.
Don't dehumanize/deponify your enemies just because they were raised to think of slavery as normal. They're still people.
War, war never changes. So let's not unleash that horror unless we absolutely have to.
I fully support intrigue actions to assassinate the slave-holders, though, preferably by having Ravensburg's agents swap with a slave before killing their 'masters' so that we have plausible deniability. As a bonus, the same nobles probably include unicorn battle-mages which we would eliminate before Maretonia could field them against us.
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- Location
- Italy
Well, their battlemages might get some oricalchum and black steel as well.
I agree.
Our winning condition is NOT to burn Maretonia to the ground, any more than it was "destroy Aquileia" or "kill all crystal ponies" in the past
We have a few objectives. In order of importance
1)get our people back
2)make sure no more will ever get taken from us. This might actually be MORE important than 1)
3)have slavery abolished in Maretonia, possibly by inciting a slave uprising/helping the abolitionists/having the strongest "pro-slavery" voices murdered.
4) if completely abolishing slavery is too hard to do right now, modifying the istitution would be...acceptable in the short term. By that I mean giving the slaves more rights, and a way for them to free themselves. Maybe reducing the ways one can actually BECOME a slave, or make it temporary. (I mean, TEMPORARY slavery for debt or horrible crimes is not as bad as "born a slave, died a slave" for example).
And of course we have to coordinate with Neighpon and upgrade/expand our army in case it's necessary to fight. We also need to study more countermeasures to unicorn and Pegasus magic.
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