- Location
- Castle
[X] Alectai
Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Fantasy
Ling Qi is merely ok at stealth and also merely ok at attacking from stealth. In other words, going stealth has a decent chance of failure in exchange for a mediocre payout. Others have posted the math several times suggesting that even if everything goes right and Ling Qi lands a max damage backstab with One With Shadow she would then be in a worse strategic position than if she just dropped Zhengui and popped mist ASAP.
- Location
- California
[x] Set up and Stick in
- Location
- Florida
[X] Alectai
I'm just gonna directly proxy you to keep my life simple.
- Location
- Malaysia
I don't understand this part. Under your best case scenario, Ling Qi is still going to engage Chu Song eventually after getting fully buffed, giving the opponent to fully buff up as well. How do you intend to win if Ling Qi keeps running? Are you thinking that Ling Qi is constantly hidden while FVM is up or something because I don't think it works that way.
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Nolrai
weak to fangs
- Location
- Porltand
[X] Turtle Fortress: Express Zhengui and work together to reinforce your position, stacking defenses and area-of-effect debuffs to make ourselves unassailable. If we can sustain an inviolable core, Chu Song will only weaken over time, letting us take her down at our leisure.
[x] Set up and Stick in
[x] Set up and Stick in
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
My concern, as I've stated repeatedly, is the possibility that she has some kind of ability to stop us from setting it up, or aggressively dispel it as we set it up.
By the time we've gotten FVM fully spooled up, we win, because Chu Song's elemental spread isn't one that's particularly good at sustain, and equipment only goes so far to fix that. And with Traveller's End engaged, she doesn't have anything that can dispel anymore, even if she has a super consumable or something.
Waiting until we have that up before moving in plays to our advantage, and either way, it's probably more expensive for her to chase us then it is for us to retreat.
And both of the major plans opposed utterly dismiss the risk involved in letting Chu Song have the initative, they both straight up ignore her outside of common sense "Try to dodge" in favor of just setting up and ignoring her own assaults, assuming she can't hurt us despite having an elemental spread that's all about being a quick draw cruise missile.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I'm not married to the idea of stealth here. What I refuse to do is just not even attempt to reclaim the tactical initiative, and to assume our superiority will let it fall into our laps as we do our normal thing. To not even attempt to side step the cruise missile instead of just take it on the chin and assume everything will be fine.
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This is outright deceptive.
Ling Qi's stealth is to the extent where she walked into a Green cultivator's base and only got detected when she tried to steal the item which was literally nailed down.
She was stealthy enough to hide from a Green cultivator with perception arts equipped while at Yellow, though Sun Liling's Blood advantage from having landed a hit won through, it was by fairly close margins and she still needed her spirit to buff her.
She was stealthy enough to steal fruits from a Green spirit beast and to pass through a house without the powerful house spirit realizing where she was in it.
Calling her bad at stealth is a complete farce, when we know that even Green opponents equipped with tracking arts had difficulty with it at Yellow. Now that she's at Green anyone short of a Monster would be hard pressed to locate her.
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- Location
- Malaysia
Under his best case scenario, there's no ambush at all so focusing on that is leading everyone to argue in circles. He's ambushing only if stealth fails so it's arguable how effective that can be.
- Location
- London, 1935. August.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Turtle Fortress: Express Zhengui and work together to reinforce your position, stacking defenses and area-of-effect debuffs to make ourselves unassailable. If we can sustain an inviolable core, Chu Song will only weaken over time, letting us take her down at our leisure.
[x] Set up and Stick in
[x] Set up and Stick in
[x] Set up and Stick in
I am kind of enamored with the idea of just not using stealth or PLR in the elimination rounds to hopefully get Sun Liling to switch out her best perception art for a lesser one in order to fit more face punching into her build.
Then we drop the festival and laugh.
Not sure if it is in any way a plausible or possible strategy, but it would be hilarious if it worked.
I am kind of enamored with the idea of just not using stealth or PLR in the elimination rounds to hopefully get Sun Liling to switch out her best perception art for a lesser one in order to fit more face punching into her build.
Then we drop the festival and laugh.
Not sure if it is in any way a plausible or possible strategy, but it would be hilarious if it worked.
If Chu Song were asleep I would be very optimistic about our chances to sneak past her.
If we were trying to sneak into Chu Song's house and she didn't know we were coming I would also feel good about it.
Deploying stealth in combat while starting in plain view of our opponent is a whole different beast.
Diomedea
A piece of the continent
- Location
- The interblag
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Turtle Fortress: Express Zhengui and work together to reinforce your position, stacking defenses and area-of-effect debuffs to make ourselves unassailable. If we can sustain an inviolable core, Chu Song will only weaken over time, letting us take her down at our leisure.
[x] Set up and Stick in
[X] Plan Untethered
[x] Set up and Stick in
[X] Plan Untethered
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- Location
- Somewhere
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[X] Turtle Fortress: Express Zhengui and work together to reinforce your position, stacking defenses and area-of-effect debuffs to make ourselves unassailable. If we can sustain an inviolable core, Chu Song will only weaken over time, letting us take her down at our leisure.
[x] Set up and Stick in
[x] Set up and Stick in
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
So, we never actually escaped from Sun Liling on that mountain I guess?
Well, news to me.
You can't be fucking serious. Your entire plan is running away.
Like how the fuck do you get that setting up the mist is letting Chu have the initiative while running away is not.
Also stop fucking ignoring all the posts that prove that your plan is mechanically inferior. It's not only rude but bad faith debating.
- Location
- Malaysia
You're assuming that she has a way of disrupting FVM or cancelling it as we're casting it. If this is true, surely she would also be able to disrupt or cancel One With Shadow? You seem terrified of how much damage she could do before we have FVM up but she could also do that damage on the turn that we are casting OWS, whether stealth succeeds it not...
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
I'm Not.
Because standing right in front of her and trying to damage race her is playing her game.
She doesn't have perfect knowledge of her surroundings at all time for heaven's sake. The whole point of my plan is to attempt to get distance so we can set up when we're not trying to damage race a cruise missile.
It's not FVM's first step I'm worried about, it's the steps that come afterwards. Because FVM doesn't become self-sustaining until Traveller's End hits--which is on the third turn we start setting it up, so all she has to do is stop us from playing for a moment and the song ends prematurely, and we have to start from scratch. All she needs to do to achieve that is pop whatever her interrupt is on the second turn and she has a full free turn to focus on damaging us instead of interrupting.
FVM explicitly can't be held longer if it's interrupted by enemy action. That's the big thing I'm worried about, because then we have to start from scratch every time she stops us before the third round where we have Traveller's End up and it becomes self-sustaining.
Something that requires one round to start and tries to get distance seems much more likely to work out then something that requires three turns of us playing music before it becomes independent of our actions.
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zamin
The Watcher in the Dark
[X] Alectai
[X] Plan Untethered
I see that this is turning into Cai vote 2.0, complete with people talking past each other and accusing their opponents of bad faith debating. I'm just going to drop my vote and leave the thread until yrs posts the next update.
[X] Plan Untethered
I see that this is turning into Cai vote 2.0, complete with people talking past each other and accusing their opponents of bad faith debating. I'm just going to drop my vote and leave the thread until yrs posts the next update.
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Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
- France
This is sadly not the case. Ling Qi is good at specific aspects of stealth when prepared and geared for stealth operations. Doing so greatly dimnish our combat ability, needs the right environment, and is not fully applicable to combat. For example, we gain another 5 dice to bypass formations, which greatly helps for infiltration but not so much for combat.
Our stealth in a scenario like the one of this plan for the fight should be between 28 dice or 25 dice + 3 autos. When we are infiltrating, our stealth is 31 dice +3 autos +5 against formations, so usually 36 dice +3 autos.
Not only that, but when infiltrating guards around do not have their perception techs activated by default, which should be a +4 for them. So, in practice, our infiltration dice has 15 dice or 12+3 autos more than the stealth for the above scenario. furthermore, our stealth was excellent for late yellow. It's still good for early green, but less so.
For reference, Ling Qi with her very low investment in perception, has 27 perception dice... so can see stealthed Ling Qi (when she is using one with shadow) fairly regularly.
So yes, Saying our stealth without using FVM is mediocre to bad in combat scenario is neither deceptive nor a farce. Calling it good, in fact, is a farce.
Indeed, we didn't escape her through our own stealth...
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[X] Set up and Stick in
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Huh, I guess we've been playing a dream all this time then, that she was attacking us constantly and we never got a moment's rest.
Rather then what actually seems to have happened which is "Sun Liling knew roughly where we were thanks to her blood tracking, but she had to call Dhatri to smoke us out, and couldn't pinpoint our exact position once we broke contact after surviving the dance"
But according to you, that never actually happened, she was meleeing us constantly until we were pounded into submission because she was always right on top of us, and the efforts to gain stealth were futile.
What we found there is that our stealth was good enough to defeat a tracking specced person with two stages and a Realm on us. Not good enough to do it well enough to shake her, but enough that she couldn't passively do it and had to exert her actual effort to reacquire us once we broke contact.
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