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Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

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[x] Set up and Stick in

I'm not thrilled about holding back Zhengui until the mists stick, just in case that turns into a weird protracted thing, but it's better than the other choices I guess.

[X] Turtle Fortress: Express Zhengui and work together to reinforce your position, stacking defenses and area-of-effect debuffs to make ourselves unassailable. If we can sustain an inviolable core, Chu Song will only weaken over time, letting us take her down at our leisure.
 
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I'm voting for Shadows because I think it's the plan likeliest to keep our tankiness a secret. I also like the misdirection optics of Ling Qi apparently needing to run away from a strong facepuncher to set up her Mist of Doom and not revealing we could actually tank her hits.

Yes, we only have one stealth art. That doesn't mean our stealth is bad. Our stealth is honestly awesome. We got away from freaking Princess Sun Liling when she had a literal blood-tracker art homed in on us. I'm feeling good about our chances of breaking away from Chu Song to set up an ambush for her.
 
Kai Merah said:
I'm voting for Shadows because I think it's the plan likeliest to keep our tankiness a secret. I also like the misdirection optics of Ling Qi apparently needing to run away from a strong facepuncher to set up her Mist of Doom and not revealing we could actually tank her hits.

Yes, we only have one stealth art. That doesn't mean our stealth is bad. Our stealth is honestly awesome. We got away from freaking Princess Sun Liling when she had a literal blood-tracker art homed in on us. I'm feeling good about our chances of breaking away from Chu Song to set up an ambush for her.
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And once the ambush is sprung do what exactly?

I keep harping on this point because it's the biggest problem with the stealth tactic, it offers nothing to Ling Qi tactically. A paltry 3 dice bonus* to land Dispassion or one strike of Hoarfrost Caress isn't worth wasting so much qi on running, and after the first attack Chu Song gets in punching range while she had time to buff herself/use all her defensive arts.

The end condition here is to beat Chu Song, stealthing is only useful insofar it lets Ling Qi set an alpha strike (which she doesn't have) or setting up FVM (which would break stealth, because a giant fog cloud is noticeable).

* EDIT: 8 if Ling disengages far enough so it would also count as a first strike, but then it means Chu Song has a free reign to use her own defensive arts.
 
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[x] Set up and Stick in
-[x] The terrain is neutral, but you can mold it into your favor. While setting up the mists, avoid melee defensively as best you can. Once the mists stick, release Zhengui and together turn the area into a frozen ashy mire, while setting up defenses for the both of you. If Chu Song has a strong dispel, do like Heizui and use it to wear her down, but if she fails work towards Traveler's End. Do not get sucked into a flying sword or spirit beast duel, it's best to keep all three targets where they can be engaged together, as that is where Zhengui and your Singing Mist Blade both excel. Elegy can be used to isolate instead of distance. Fight around Zhengui so he can disrupt them, and if they take their attention off of you, slam an opponent hard. If Chu Song escapes or tries a skirmish strategy, don't waste energy chasing, but try to mislead her and get her stuck in again - unlike Shen Hu you have the advantage that she must engage you to win.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by Killer_Whale on Jul 23, 2018 at 6:18 AM, finished with 67867 posts and 60 votes.
  • [X] Once More, Into the Shadows
    -[X] Wind, Thunder, and Mountain are Elements primarily good at getting in your face and then beating you to a pulp there, they're not necessarily so good at situational awareness. Make use of One With Shadow and Grinning Crescent Dancer to fade into the darkness of the forest--using Twilight Beauty if needed to achieve Low Light early on--and deny Chu Song a target while finding a good spot, and then arrange an ambush along with Zhengui. If she decides to sit tight instead, she can accept you having as much time as you want to spool up your mist and other debuffs, and fall on her with the force of an avalanche. Be willing to summon additional help with Abyssal Exhalation if you need to set up a multiple attacker mosh pit, but keep PLR and the Horror up our sleeve at the moment.
    [X] Turtle Fortress: Express Zhengui and work together to reinforce your position, stacking defenses and area-of-effect debuffs to make ourselves unassailable. If we can sustain an inviolable core, Chu Song will only weaken over time, letting us take her down at our leisure.
    [x] Set up and Stick in
    -[x] The terrain is neutral, but you can mold it into your favor. While setting up the mists, avoid melee defensively as best you can. Once the mists stick, release Zhengui and together turn the area into a frozen ashy mire, while setting up defenses for the both of you. If Chu Song has a strong dispel, do like Heizui and use it to wear her down, but if she fails work towards Traveler's End. Do not get sucked into a flying sword or spirit beast duel, it's best to keep all three targets where they can be engaged together, as that is where Zhengui and your Singing Mist Blade both excel. Elegy can be used to isolate instead of distance. Fight around Zhengui so he can disrupt them, and if they take their attention off of you, slam an opponent hard. If Chu Song escapes or tries a skirmish strategy, don't waste energy chasing, but try to mislead her and get her stuck in again - unlike Shen Hu you have the advantage that she must engage you to win.
    [X] Stone Turtle and Mist Girl
    -[x] Open with FVM at 120 meter radius, try to catch Chu Song and her bear inside it and then separate them with Elegy. Zhengui should dig in for an ambush with his most powerful strike against whichever of the pair finds him first, trying to grapple them after and use Ashfall. When he engages buff him up as high as we can with whatever we can, particularly TRF. Keep our distance from Chu and the Bear, avoiding her domain weapon, and keep our domain weapon away from hers. Use our domain weapon, One With Shadow and FSS to attack Chu Song in quick flash attacks using Ling Qi's ability to disengage. Be wary of dispels and stick close to Zhengui so he can heal us both. Keep PLR, the Horror in our deck and don't use them.
    [X] Weathered Storm, Winter's Fury
    -[X] Chu Song will have the initiative, so we must weather her assault before beginning our own. Respond to her initial attack with Ten Ring Defense, and then prepare our defenses with Thousand Rings Unbreaking and Deepwood Vitality. Turn aside her next assault with Grinning Cresent Dancer, and begin the counter-attack with Spring's End Aria and Mists of the Vale. Zhengui's job will be to serve as our shield against Chu Song's companion while we bring our musical might to bear against Chu Song. Reserve the Horror and Phantasmagoria of Lunar Revelry unless we are loosing and they might turn the tide.
    [X] Plan Zhengui needs some experience too
    -[X] Use FSA, FZ and SCS to attack Chu Song from range and not allow her to close the gap (aka kitting)
    -[X] Buff Zhengui and then have him ambush Chu Song's Bear pet and defeat it
    -[X] Once the previous is done, Kite Chu Song over to Zhengui and switch to the flute + musical Arts to focus on helping Zhengui in his fight against a debuffed Chu Song.
    [X] Standard Operating Procedure
    -[X] You have confidence in your abilities, but there's no harm in being a bit cautious. Maintain your distance with Sable Crescent Step as you build your mist into an inexorable tide. Zhengui's Ashfall will only make the eventual sneak attack all the more unstoppable. Once Chu Song is trapped within the Traveler's End, your Frozen Soul Serenade will snuff out any chances of victory.
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[x] Set up and Stick in
-[x] The terrain is neutral, but you can mold it into your favor. While setting up the mists, avoid melee defensively as best you can. Once the mists stick, release Zhengui and together turn the area into a frozen ashy mire, while setting up defenses for the both of you. If Chu Song has a strong dispel, do like Heizui and use it to wear her down, but if she fails work towards Traveler's End. Do not get sucked into a flying sword or spirit beast duel, it's best to keep all three targets where they can be engaged together, as that is where Zhengui and your Singing Mist Blade both excel. Elegy can be used to isolate instead of distance. Fight around Zhengui so he can disrupt them, and if they take their attention off of you, slam an opponent hard. If Chu Song escapes or tries a skirmish strategy, don't waste energy chasing, but try to mislead her and get her stuck in again - unlike Shen Hu you have the advantage that she must engage you to win.
 
@yrsillar, what happens if we try to pop something like Twilight Beauty for low light here? Wouldn't the aura effectively show everyone where we are and thus actually provide a stealth malus?
 
[X] Turtle Fortress: Express Zhengui and work together to reinforce your position, stacking defenses and area-of-effect debuffs to make ourselves unassailable. If we can sustain an inviolable core, Chu Song will only weaken over time, letting us take her down at our leisure.

[x] Set up and Stick in

Let's hope a non-overly complex plan works.
Kai Merah said:
I'm voting for Shadows because I think it's the plan likeliest to keep our tankiness a secret. I also like the misdirection optics of Ling Qi apparently needing to run away from a strong facepuncher to set up her Mist of Doom and not revealing we could actually tank her hits.
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OK, let's assume you are right and that Sun Liling forgot we could tank her hits. What does not showing it off right now means, in your opinion?

Does Ji Rong have an alternate art set up because he couldn't open enough meridians but could learn the arts? does he have an alternate gear set up? I am not exactly sure what exactly Ji Rong would do now that would change things if he knew we could take hits and he doesn't already know.
 
Kai Merah said:
I'm voting for Shadows because I think it's the plan likeliest to keep our tankiness a secret. I also like the misdirection optics of Ling Qi apparently needing to run away from a strong facepuncher to set up her Mist of Doom and not revealing we could actually tank her hits.
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Why are you trying to keep it secret? This is the last match we have before fighting people who already know we have very good defenses. This is when we should be using it as a trump card, since Sun knows from experience and would have told Ji Rong.
 
Ji Rong may have heard we have good defences, but I don't think he or Sun know how good yet. Showing blatant confidence in being able to tank Chu Song's hints is an indication of how strong our defences are.

I'm assuming we stealth in order to get away far enough to start building up our doom mist. We lose stealth at that point sure, but all we really need is time to set up in peace. I'm thinking Ling Qi's fully buffed Mist and Turtle-son is much better off than whatever buffs Chu Song has, no matter how many of them she layers on her.

EDIT: Also, Ji Rong might not have an alternate art set, but he's unlikely to hit us with his strongest attack from the get go unless he believes his strongest attack is what's needed to pierce Ling Qi's defences. If he thinks we might dodge, and so he needs to conserve strength to keep trying to hit us, he won't go for alpha strike straight away.
 
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Kai Merah said:
EDIT: Also, Ji Rong might not have an alternate art set, but he's unlikely to hit us with his strongest attack from the get go unless he believes his strongest attack is what's needed to pierce Ling Qi's defences. If he thinks we might dodge, and so he needs to conserve strength to keep trying to hit us, he won't go for alpha strike straight away.
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Mmmh... but we might dodge, and we are no longer vulnerable to Alpha strikes?

I mean, if Ji Rong decides to use a tactic that actually goes against his actual abilities in a gamble to take us down quickly it's good for us, because we are no longer vulnerable to alpha strikes. So, huh, it would go down to him forgetting he has to wear us down and not count on one technique taking us down. I guess you can have an argument on how "he could decide he needs to be careful with us" instead, but I think we already established to Ji Rong he needs to take us seriously.

Ji Rong's style is such that I don't see him not trying to damage us, and I don't see him loading up on anti-stealth talismans either personality wise. It's just about him fighting us seriously, and we have seen when against GG that he is a good tactical fighter.
 
[X] Turtle Fortress: Express Zhengui and work together to reinforce your position, stacking defenses and area-of-effect debuffs to make ourselves unassailable. If we can sustain an inviolable core, Chu Song will only weaken over time, letting us take her down at our leisure.

I don't really see the need to get super complicated about things. My personal preference would be to split things up a little bit more so it's essentially Ling Qi vs Chu Song and Zhengui vs Bear Whose Name I Forgot for the spectacle of it, but this is fine too. It's a tournament fight, ambushes aren't practical. Ling Qi isn't mechanically or narratively sneaky enough to pull off luring an enemy in plain sight into an improvised ambush.

[x] Set up and Stick in
 
Kai Merah said:
EDIT: Also, Ji Rong might not have an alternate art set, but he's unlikely to hit us with his strongest attack from the get go unless he believes his strongest attack is what's needed to pierce Ling Qi's defences. If he thinks we might dodge, and so he needs to conserve strength to keep trying to hit us, he won't go for alpha strike straight away.
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But mechanically we haven't seen anything like that. The strongest attacks have the most dice, which means they're most likely to hit. And conserving qi like that would only make sense if he has shit qi reduction, in which case we're probably going to win.

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Hmm, stealthing away makes most sense if you're more worried about dispels than s.def. This is not unjustifiable, given that Chu has a dispels. Otoh, it failed back in Growing Pains, and we have waaayyy more dispel resist now. Also, losing actions due to dispels is better than losing them to misses, since dispels require her to spend an action too.

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Also, random thought: Yan probably doesn't have amazing s.def. he also probably lacks semi-perfect blocking... What if we spammed WEC after setting up FVM?

Thoughts?
 
Erebeal said:
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Also, random thought: Yan probably doesn't have amazing s.def. he also probably lacks semi-perfect blocking... What if we spammed WEC after setting up FVM?

Thoughts?
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Yan probably should have semi-perfect blocking. I mean, spamming WEC would work really well to drain him dry of Qi super quickly, but I am pretty sure most green spirit beasts are going to come with semiperfect qi blocking by default, especially a bear.

EDIT: I had never noticed Zhengui didn't have semiperfect Qi-blocking before. While we can do it for him thanks to TRD, this does mean that it's probably not a default for all spirit beasts, given how much Zhengui is about defences.
 
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Erebeal said:
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Also, random thought: Yan probably doesn't have amazing s.def. he also probably lacks semi-perfect blocking... What if we spammed WEC after setting up FVM?

Thoughts?
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I'd prefer to give Chu Song face by primarily focusing on her if possible. That doesn't mean not being generous with our debuffs, but we can be a bit more conservative with our direct damaging attacks. Zhengui should have a chance to hang out with a new budy too.
 
Arkeus said:
Mmmh... but we might dodge, and we are no longer vulnerable to Alpha strikes?

I mean, if Ji Rong decides to use a tactic that actually goes against his actual abilities in a gamble to take us down quickly it's good for us, because we are no longer vulnerable to alpha strikes. So, huh, it would go down to him forgetting he has to wear us down and not count on one technique taking us down. I guess you can have an argument on how "he could decide he needs to be careful with us" instead, but I think we already established to Ji Rong he needs to take us seriously.

Ji Rong's style is such that I don't see him not trying to damage us, and I don't see him loading up on anti-stealth talismans either personality wise. It's just about him fighting us seriously, and we have seen when against GG that he is a good tactical fighter.
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...Huh, I think I may have had a brain fart. Long day at work. I'm... not totally sure about the point I was trying to make anymore. Ji Rong not realising he has to actually punch harder to properly hit us maybe? Like, I'm picturing him having a big, strong attack that's maybe not great with the accuracy, and another more, flurry of punches style that's likelier to actually hit. I want him to keep trying for the flurry of punches for as long as possible, not realising that they're not actually damaging us much, so we have time to build our mist.
 
[X] Turtle Fortress

Meh, im switching to this one. If I cant get Turtle Monster in the Mist, then im going for one where Zengui can show off as much as possible.
 
Can someone opposing shadows explain why they feel Qi is a concern?

With our equipment literally the most we'll pay is 2 Qi on turn one and 1 per turn thereafter to reduce the light levels. and given we'll start setting up the most for attacking I don't really see that being a long term problem.

Edit. Oh wait OWS. So 3 Qi.
Oh and forgot to vote.

[X] Alectai
 
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Humbaba said:
Can someone opposing shadows explain why they feel Qi is a concern?

With our equipment literally the most we'll pay is 2 Qi on turn one and 1 per turn thereafter to reduce the light levels. and given we'll start setting up the most for attacking I don't really see that being a long term problem.

Edit. Oh wait OWS. So 3 Qi.
Oh and forgot to vote.

[X] Alectai
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a large-ish chunk of the vote is actually on the minituae of what to do at the start. Heck, in not even voting for efficiency here.

Just want Zengui to have his moment in the sun. After all, this should be his first ever battle with as close to a peer as possible.
 
[X] Turtle Fortress: Express Zhengui and work together to reinforce your position, stacking defenses and area-of-effect debuffs to make ourselves unassailable. If we can sustain an inviolable core, Chu Song will only weaken over time, letting us take her down at our leisure.

[x] Set up and Stick in
 
[x] Set up and Stick in

[X] Turtle Fortress: Express Zhengui and work together to reinforce your position, stacking defenses and area-of-effect debuffs to make ourselves unassailable. If we can sustain an inviolable core, Chu Song will only weaken over time, letting us take her down at our leisure.
 
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