Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

Do you and others actually think someone who's more of a bruiser is going to beat Ling Qi in a sustained buff/debuff war? Especially if LQ takes the opportunity to stall and set up an ambush first?

If we give her free actions, yes, of course. Which one with shadow does.

This is utterly baseless. We're a stealthy skirmisher build, and thus fighting like a stealthy skirmisher is not at all shameful when its how we dominated our preliminaries. We have explicit acknowledgment that our performance in the prelims met all expectations and made up for Gan's loss, so we are under no pressure to use strategies to show off in this round beyond beating the opponent.

We're facing an opponent specialized in powerful alpha strikes based on her elemental composition and past performance, so assuming our defense is solid enough to take her in her strongest point is the height of arrogance.

By contrast we already know she's not particularly amazing at mobility compared to us, that the environment allows for stealth, and that our next two opponents are going to almost certainly be packing perception arts because we ruined their day with stealth too often. This is our best opportunity to showcase our ambush ability, which if it fails due to unexpected perceptiveness AND mobility, then goes to our defenses anyway.

It doesn't matter what her elemental composition is. We are to show to be much better than her, as she is an ennemy to the Cai.

This explicitely let her show off when she really shouldn't be allowed to.

Beside if she is a peer, which she is not, hemorageing qi and actions is fucking scuicidal.
 
Our best chance of landing stealth is actually if we stand and fight. We can put up Mists of the Veil and still can make use of OWS for a +9 bonus, -7 to her perception, AND our low-light autos...

That means the viable ambush plan is to ambush in place. Not to try to break contact and hide.
 
If people don't like the Into the Shadows plan, that's fine. But could you guys at least come up with a decent alternative plan?

Complain all you like, but if you don't provide an acceptable alternative, people are just going to vote for Into the Shadows.
 
Because it's not a buff/debuff war. Stalling and setting up an ambush actually means we can't set up our good debuff/buffs, while she set up our own, and it relies on her perception sucking when we have low stealth capabilities.

It trades away our strengths (being faster than her, first strike, being tanky, being able to debuff her) for our weaknesses, and it doesn't even concentrate on any weakness of hers.
The plan says if she successfully chases us, we set up an ambush. She's probably focusing more on her movement arts to keep up than setting up a buff.
If it turns out we lose her and she decides not to chase, the plan says we set up the Mist and go ham. I'd say LQ can buff up harder than Chu Song can in that scenario.
 
I think there was my plan from a while back, but no one really commented or did anything with it, and I am rather un-attached to the thing.

[] Stone Turtle and Mist Girl
-[] Open with FVM at 120 meter radius, try to catch Chu Song and her bear inside it and then separate them with Elegy. Zhengui should dig in for an ambush with his most powerful strike against whichever of the pair finds him first, trying to them grapple after and use Ashfall. When he engages buff him up as high as we can with whatever we can, particularly TRF. Keep our distance from Chu and the Bear, avoiding her domain weapon, and keep our domain weapon away from hers. Use our domain weapon, One With Shadow and FSS to attack Chu Song in quick flash attacks using Ling Qi's ability to disengage. Be wary of dispels and stick close to Zhengui so he can heal us both. Keep PLR, the Horror in our deck and don't use them.
 
Complain all you like, but if you don't provide an acceptable alternative, people are just going to vote for Into the Shadows.

Shilling for myself here:

[X] Standard Operating Procedure
-[X] You have confidence in your abilities, but there's no harm in being a bit cautious. Maintain your distance with Sable Crescent Step as you build your mist into an inexorable tide. Zhengui's Ashfall will only make the eventual sneak attack all the more unstoppable. Once Chu Song is trapped within the Traveler's End, your Frozen Soul Serenade will snuff out any chances of victory.
 
[X] Turtle Fortress: Express Zhengui and work together to reinforce your position, stacking defenses and area-of-effect debuffs to make ourselves unassailable. If we can sustain an inviolable core, Chu Song will only weaken over time, letting us take her down at our leisure.
 
You have a *vastly* different idea of what our strengths are compared to her than I do.
I am assuming we do not know her weaknesses, so we should gamble on our own strengths instead of trying to gamble on finding the cracks in her set up. I am also assuming Ji Rong doesn't have a bruiser spirit beast, so it's the only time that Zhengui could have a traditional spirit beast vs spirit beast match.

Our best chance of landing stealth is actually if we stand and fight. We can put up Mists of the Veil and still can make use of OWS for a +9 bonus, -7 to her perception, AND our low-light autos...

That means the viable ambush plan is to ambush in place. Not to try to break contact and hide.
Also +3 auto from being in reliable low light, rather than hoping we can ambush Chu Son in one of the darker place of the forest she would totally go into if she can't perceive us.
The plan says if she successfully chases us, we set up an ambush. She's probably focusing more on her movement arts to keep up than setting up a buff.
If it turns out we lose her and she decides not to chase, the plan says we set up the Mist and go ham. I'd say LQ can buff up harder than Chu Song can in that scenario.
If she perceives us, we can't set up an ambush because she would be knowing where we are.

Movement arts are part buff, and we would be the one focusing on our stealth and movement arts to set up buff. Unless you mean "closer techs", but if she focus on her closer techs this means she is hitting us that turn, and then that's a buff too.

In practice, "ambushing her if she chase us" means a fully buffed Chu Song arriving against a Ling Qi that doesn't have any of her main buffs, because our main buffs can't be used reliably when we try to stealth.
 
I mean, even assuming that Ling Qi manages to disengage and stealth, what will she do to set up an ambush? All of her buffs are defensively focused, and Chu Song will have actions to trigger her own defensive arts. Ling Qi main workhorses have a noticeable effect (SEA or FVM) so she can't set them in secret.

The best moment to strike her is either right at the start or immediately after stealthing.
 
How about a plan where we pretend to be doing what we did in the group stage, surge forwards in a cloud of mist, encouraging her to charge us instantly, while we drop Zhengui behind us, where he hides. We then very quickly switch to retreating as she enters the mist, baiting her to run right over him. At that point he trips/stalls her, interrupting her alpha strike, and we pounce while she's over extended?
 
How about a plan where we pretend to be doing what we did in the group stage, surge forwards in a cloud of mist, encouraging her to charge us instantly, while we drop Zhengui behind us, where he hides. We then very quickly switch to retreating as she enters the mist, baiting her to run right over him. At that point he trips/stalls her, interrupting her alpha strike, and we pounce while she's over extended?
Zhengui stealth is really bad. He'd get detected by yellows. Needs more stealth training. Any plan that relies on Zhengui stealth is not feasible.
 
Zhengui stealth is really bad. He'd get detected by yellows. Needs more stealth training. Any plan that relies on Zhengui stealth is not feasible.
...Actually, that kinda works for this plan:

[] Stone Turtle and Mist Girl
-[] Open with FVM at 120 meter radius, try to catch Chu Song and her bear inside it and then separate them with Elegy. Zhengui should dig in for an ambush with his most powerful strike against whichever of the pair finds him first, trying to them grapple after and use Ashfall. When he engages buff him up as high as we can with whatever we can, particularly TRF. Keep our distance from Chu and the Bear, avoiding her domain weapon, and keep our domain weapon away from hers. Use our domain weapon, One With Shadow and FSS to attack Chu Song in quick flash attacks using Ling Qi's ability to disengage. Be wary of dispels and stick close to Zhengui so he can heal us both. Keep PLR, the Horror in our deck and don't use them.

Since it calls for him to be detected and targeted rather than us. Having him be noticed and assumed to be bad at hiding works well enough, and if they do manage to miss seeing him, we win off of their perception being horrible.
 
[X] Stone Turtle and Mist Girl
-[x] Open with FVM at 120 meter radius, try to catch Chu Song and her bear inside it and then separate them with Elegy. Zhengui should dig in for an ambush with his most powerful strike against whichever of the pair finds him first, trying to them grapple after and use Ashfall. When he engages buff him up as high as we can with whatever we can, particularly TRF. Keep our distance from Chu and the Bear, avoiding her domain weapon, and keep our domain weapon away from hers. Use our domain weapon, One With Shadow and FSS to attack Chu Song in quick flash attacks using Ling Qi's ability to disengage. Be wary of dispels and stick close to Zhengui so he can heal us both. Keep PLR, the Horror in our deck and don't use them.
 
[x] Set up and Stick in
-[x] The terrain is neutral, but you can mold it into your favor. While setting up the mists, avoid melee defensively as best you can. Once the mists stick, release Zhengui and together turn the area into a frozen ashy mire, while setting up defenses for the both of you. If Chu Song has a strong dispel, do like Heizui and make her use it to wear her down, but if she fails work towards Traveler's End. Do not get sucked into a flying sword or spirit beast duel, it's best to keep all three targets where they can be engaged together, as that is where Zhengui and your Singing Mist Blade both excel. Elegy can be used to isolate instead of distance. Fight around Zhengui so he can disrupt them, and if they take their attention off of you, slam an opponent hard. If Chu Song escapes or tries a skirmish strategy, don't waste energy chasing, but try to mislead her and get her stuck in again - unlike Shen Hu you have the advantage that she must engage you to win.


e: and my approval votes:
[X] Plan Untethered
 
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[X] Stone Turtle and Mist Girl

Im voting for this because I really want Zengui to succeed on his stealth check. It will be an absolute Horror Fest when the enemy mook sees our mini monster hiding in the mist.
 
Tentatively

[x] Set up and Stick in

Since it's better than wasting turns on stealth. OWS isn't instant and gives a 5 dice bonus only if Ling Qi hides in the targets shadow (which lands her in range of face punching even if she succeeds), while striking unseen only gives 3 dice bonus and it's all in service of landing Dispasion which only penalizes the enemies defense by four dice (the perception check doesn't trigger if the enemies are within 20 meters of Ling Qi or excluded allies).

EDIT: Adding

[X] Plan Untethered
 
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[x] Set up and Stick in
-[x] The terrain is neutral, but you can mold it into your favor. While setting up the mists, avoid melee defensively as best you can. Once the mists stick, release Zhengui and together turn the area into a frozen ashy mire, while setting up defenses for the both of you. If Chu Song has a strong dispel, do like Heizui and use it to wear her down, but if she fails work towards Traveler's End. Do not get sucked into a flying sword or spirit beast duel, it's best to keep all three targets where they can be engaged together, as that is where Zhengui and your Singing Mist Blade both excel. Elegy can be used to isolate instead of distance. Fight around Zhengui so he can disrupt them, and if they take their attention off of you, slam an opponent hard. If Chu Song escapes or tries a skirmish strategy, don't waste energy chasing, but try to mislead her and get her stuck in again - unlike Shen Hu you have the advantage that she must engage you to win.
 
[x] Set up and Stick in
-[x] The terrain is neutral, but you can mold it into your favor. While setting up the mists, avoid melee defensively as best you can. Once the mists stick, release Zhengui and together turn the area into a frozen ashy mire, while setting up defenses for the both of you. If Chu Song has a strong dispel, do like Heizui and use it to wear her down, but if she fails work towards Traveler's End. Do not get sucked into a flying sword or spirit beast duel, it's best to keep all three targets where they can be engaged together, as that is where Zhengui and your Singing Mist Blade both excel. Elegy can be used to isolate instead of distance. Fight around Zhengui so he can disrupt them, and if they take their attention off of you, slam an opponent hard. If Chu Song escapes or tries a skirmish strategy, don't waste energy chasing, but try to mislead her and get her stuck in again - unlike Shen Hu you have the advantage that she must engage you to win.

seems good
 
Work for me.

[X] Stone Turtle and Mist Girl
-[x] Open with FVM at 120 meter radius, try to catch Chu Song and her bear inside it and then separate them with Elegy. Zhengui should dig in for an ambush with his most powerful strike against whichever of the pair finds him first, trying to grapple them after and use Ashfall. When he engages buff him up as high as we can with whatever we can, particularly TRF. Keep our distance from Chu and the Bear, avoiding her domain weapon, and keep our domain weapon away from hers. Use our domain weapon, One With Shadow and FSS to attack Chu Song in quick flash attacks using Ling Qi's ability to disengage. Be wary of dispels and stick close to Zhengui so he can heal us both. Keep PLR, the Horror in our deck and don't use them.
 
[x] Set up and Stick in
-[x] The terrain is neutral, but you can mold it into your favor. While setting up the mists, avoid melee defensively as best you can. Once the mists stick, release Zhengui and together turn the area into a frozen ashy mire, while setting up defenses for the both of you. If Chu Song has a strong dispel, do like Heizui and use it to wear her down, but if she fails work towards Traveler's End. Do not get sucked into a flying sword or spirit beast duel, it's best to keep all three targets where they can be engaged together, as that is where Zhengui and your Singing Mist Blade both excel. Elegy can be used to isolate instead of distance. Fight around Zhengui so he can disrupt them, and if they take their attention off of you, slam an opponent hard. If Chu Song escapes or tries a skirmish strategy, don't waste energy chasing, but try to mislead her and get her stuck in again - unlike Shen Hu you have the advantage that she must engage you to win.
 
Gonna be honest, Stone Turtle and Mist Girl is just overcomplicated and kinda contradictory.

It wants us to somehow keep away from Chu Song while at the same time sticking close to Zhengui. It thinks we can disengage despite the movement mechanics not really supporting that and our showing against the cat man in Dark Dreams not really giving us any evidence that it's possible. It wants Zhengui to ambush people despite his stealth being completely useless. Moreover, if they're mired in the mist then this actually interferes with any potential ambush (since the perception tests disrupt movement towards us), and if we've caught them that badly we're winning anyway. Trying for sneak attacks in the mist is honestly just overcomplicating matters, since if we've landed our debuffs we already have an overwhelming dice gap. It's only really useful in the niche and unlikely case where she has like 50 s.def and poor perception, making landing FVM difficult but FSS sneak attacks possibly viable.

And let's be serious - she's not going to have anywhere near 50 s.def.

And what does "be wary of dispels" even mean? Either she has strong dispels or she doesn't. We can potentially adjust our strategy depending on this, but this plan doesn't say how. Being wary doesn't increase our dispel resist.

The basic idea of tanking up with Zhengui and mist is fine, but then it just adds too many overcomplications to this.

There isn't anything complicated to do here. And if we wanted to use stealth, we should have gotten a stealth art back in Week 47 instead of wasting our time on useless arts like AE (and before anyone says it was useful in the prelims, it honestly wasn't. If we hadn't trained AE that would have gone down in exactly the same way).
 
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Basically the Sect didn't get to show their strength at all to the audience, and everyone knows it. The Elders demonstration match is supposed to be showing off their best to advertise the Sect, and it got canceled on short notice.

Also I think Jiao might be a little bit annoyed at his fellow Elders for letting things get to this level(not that they had much choice when Sun Gramps was pressuring)
Yeah, this is DEFINITELY not in the Sect's favor. A slap on the wrist in public. Rather than showing their strength it made them look nearly insufficient.
While a mild rebuke in the short term, this actually works in the Sect's favor long-term. By rebuking them for letting all the meddling in the prelims happen, this ironically (purposefully) allows the Sect to become more independent and be more forceful in limiting outsider meddling. Basically, the Sect will much more easily be able to say 'no' and do what they want now if they can reference Cai's punishment of such meddling in the past.
 
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