Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

DarknessSmiles said:

[X] ...Seek out Shen Hu, he gave you quite a runaround, it can't hurt to make nice with a peer like him

I strongly doubt that we will face shen hu, or that anyone will face those who were in their prelim match. those fights have already largely happened, and it would be both boring to see them again and less likely to see the full capabilities of the combatants.

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Re-read the context; I was pairing up the two that won each group, not predicted matches in the round of sixteen.

PrimalShadow said:

Well, unless they want the matchup. If you recall, Sun's plan is to humiliate Cai in the tournament; having e.g. Ji Rong go up against us is consistent with that, so she'd be happy with a matchup like that. Ji Rong himself would probably be okay with it too.

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The problem is that Ji Rong losing would be... unfortunate from her perspective; and when Ling Qi and Ji Rong have clashed before... Ling Qi won. Given what else Ling Qi's accomplished (fending off and escaping Sun Liling herself, punching above her supposed cultivation level by putting Shen Hu on the ropes), that's not a matchup Sun Liling is going to want to risk. No, if she or her family has influence over the round of sixteen matchups, she'll want Ji Rong put against... mmm... possibly Han Jian, Gu Xiulan or Wen Ai (all "Cai aligned" to some extent). Someone he can crush in a one-on-one duel (note he beat Gan Guangli... with a near-peer partner's alpha-strike from ambush; and then lost said partner to someone else).

In all honesty though, while the Sun clan is definitely influencing things, I don't think it's going to be very strongly - especially at this point. While Shenhua isn't going to bother meddling, she is the closest White and might be a little irritated at anything too blatant. And while Cai Renxiang is still only heir to the Duchy, petty manipulation to embarrass her and threaten her attempts to garner power and influence might well lead to a grudge down the road.

No, I think the matches will be arranged by "how to best ensure that the ones we want get in" rather than to please one of the three Ducal clans whose scions are involved.

Now, I wouldn't be surprised to see Ling Qi vs. Ji Rong in the round of eight; that's a fight the Sect is likely going to want to exhibit - two rising stars starting from nothing after a single year at the sect - but they're going to want both to actually make it in (even if neither is going to be staying at the Sect in the long term). I agree that the three Ducal Scions and Shen Hu are also going to be on the short list.

For the last two the Sect would "want"... Han Jian is unlikely to stay in the sect (and thus, ditto Han Feng). Chu Song is a maybe, depending on what they think her potential is. Wen Ai is another unlikely to stay. Kang Zihao ditto. I don't think any of the four 'unknowns' showed much potential. Gu Xiulan is very likely going to want to stay in the Sect - and her determination is impressive.

So I'm guessing two of Gu Xiulan, Han Jian, Kang Zihao and Chu Song. Han Jian and Chu Song have shown leadership (remember, inner sect are also 'officers', in a way), while Gu Xiulan is likely to stay with the sect. Kang Zihao showed some leadership early... but it kind of fell apart on him.

The_Knowing said:

Sorry to quote you again in another post, but hasn't Shen Hu hit us?

People probably already have an idea of our tankiness.

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Shen Hu hit us once, but basically everyone who matters has semiperfect mitigation (Lu Feng and Ji Rong also had it). That doesn't show our tankiness at all from the outside. We didn't stand in the middle of his field and let him attack us again and again secure nothing he could do would scratch us.

Deadly Snark said:

Shenhua did not militarily conquer enough swathes of foreign territories to basically form her own country on the fringes of the Empire. And her destruction of the Emerald Sea Houses who stood against her, while it was brutal are still within the line of acceptable things for a lord to do to a rebellious vassal within the Empire.

Ruthless Politicians who performs utterly heartless housecleaning are far more acceptable and less of a pain for Imperial Dynasties than Conquering Generals and their network of allies. The former is still bound within the political system of the Empire. The latter can break off on their own and are thus far more of a threat that any Imperials will be watching like hawks.

Shenhua still has to climb through the internal workings of the Empire in order to fulfill her ambitions. Sun Shao can simply break away and fortify his land.

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Shenhua politcally and physically destroyed her lieges, then did the same to everyone else in the province. She also obtained the backing of the Imperial House. Sun Shao obtained the backing of the Imperial house to make a conquest in the barbarian lands, and was awarded status for doing so.

Both were outliers who went against Imperial norm and went against the political system of the empire but were so strong they could only be celebrated.

It is worth noting that people who follow Shenhua in the ES are also planning expansions in the barbarians lands to grab new territory.

Arkeus said:

Shenhua politcally and physically destroyed her lieges, then did the same to everyone else in the province. She also obtained the backing of the Imperial House. Sun Shao obtained the backing of the Imperial house to make a conquest in the barbarian lands, and was awarded status for doing so.

Both were outliers who went against Imperial norm and went against the political system of the empire but were so strong they could only be celebrated.

It is worth noting that people who follow Shenhua in the ES are also planning expansions in the barbarians lands to grab new territory.

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Yes and? My point is that Sun Shao's position is currently both stronger and more fragile than Shenhua's precisely because he has conquered new territories.

Shenhua's followers might be gunning for that, but they havent done it yet, where as Sun Shao has already ruled for a significant amount of times over his new lands. Thus Sun Shao and his family needs to watch their steps closely and need to walk a tigher tightrope than Shenhua right now.

Politically, the Imperial Dynasty is going to be focused on the Sun more than they will be on the Cai, simply because of the current situation. Could the set up change in the future? Absolutely, but that is for the future.

Deadly Snark said:

Yes and? My point is that Sun Shao's position is currently both stronger and more fragile than Shenhua's precisely because he has conquered new territories.

Shenhua's followers might be gunning for that, but they havent done it yet, where as Sun Shao has already ruled for a significant amount of times over his new lands. Thus Sun Shao and his family needs to watch their steps closely and need to walk a tigher tightrope than Shenhua right now.

Politically, the Imperial Dynasty is going to be focused on the Sun more than they will be on the Cai, simply because of the current situation. Could the set up change in the future? Absolutely, but that is for the future.

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"Conquering New territory" doesn't actually mean the Imperial Dynasty is going to look at them more than Shenhua, though?

Sun Shao might have managed to survive an attack by the Bai, but he didn't destroy them. Shenhua did destroy her liege. Between a dangerous general that's trapped far away with a deadly enemy locking them out, and Shenhua who has an actual history of destroying the one she sword fealty to, Shenhua is at least as dangerous, if not moreso.

You are looking at one thing and ignoring everything Shenhua did is not "crafter getting successful" but "Tyrant rebelling and destroying a pillar of the Empire, scourging the province of any dissenting voices, and posing themselves in a position threatening the Imperial House".

Eh, don't get too cocky here, if you had landed and gone mano-e- mano with Shen Hu in his prepared ground, he'd have had pretty good odds of womping you. His dice would have been a fair bit higher with the bonuses there, same as Ling Qi has much better dice with her mist set up. The combination of your flight and the size of your mist just countered him pretty hard.

Omniatrix said:

[X] Seek out Li Suyin, she should be getting out of her own equivalent to the prelims after all

I just...don't see the point in talking with Swamp Boi. Most of this arc has been focused on politics and maneuvering for the future and he just...doesn't really get us anything? I mean, he's kind of interesting, but if the both of us move to the Inner Sect we'll have plenty of time to talk to him regardless. A conversation with him here seems like a poor use of our time.

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It'll give us a decent chance to sound him out politically, and perhaps secure his friendship before Sun Liling has the opportunity.

A bit of a feather in our cap, if we can pull it off.

Omniatrix said:

I just...don't see the point in talking with Swamp Boi. Most of this arc has been focused on politics and maneuvering for the future and he just...doesn't really get us anything? I mean, he's kind of interesting, but if the both of us move to the Inner Sect we'll have plenty of time to talk to him regardless. A conversation with him here seems like a poor use of our time.

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It's good to make inroads with him now, since he's going to be Inner Sect with us. We have the excuse now of having had an enjoyable match with him, but if we try to talk to him in the future, it may be a bit awkward. This is honestly the best time to network with him if we want to be friends. I'm sure Cai would approve.

yrsillar said:

Eh, don't get too cocky here, if you had landed and gone mano-e- mano with Shen Hu in his prepared ground, he'd have had pretty good odds of womping you. His dice would have been a fair bit higher with the bonuses there, same as Ling Qi has much better dice with her mist set up. The combination of your flight and the size of your mist just countered him pretty hard.

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The two of us on the same side would be quite a sight, huh?

Or it would be like having two Engies on the same team in Team Fortress 2.

yrsillar said:

Eh, don't get too cocky here, if you had landed and gone mano-e- mano with Shen Hu in his prepared ground, he'd have had pretty good odds of womping you. His dice would have been a fair bit higher with the bonuses there, same as Ling Qi has much better dice with her mist set up. The combination of your flight and the size of your mist just countered him pretty hard.

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This honestly sounds like the best reason to get cocky here, entirely because our preferred ground was able to push someone else out of their preferred ground.

Thor's Twin said:

The absolute beginning of the quest.

We asked Sun if she would like to room with us and Meizhen. She declined rather harshly. We've been a thorn in her side ever since.

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If we had succeeded our resolve, we might have been able to get them to get along, being the glue that kept them together. Then we would be able to beat CRX with our much stronger trio.

yrsillar said:

Eh, don't get too cocky here, if you had landed and gone mano-e- mano with Shen Hu in his prepared ground, he'd have had pretty good odds of womping you. His dice would have been a fair bit higher with the bonuses there, same as Ling Qi has much better dice with her mist set up. The combination of your flight and the size of your mist just countered him pretty hard.

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I thought the discussion of landing was in regard to the efficiency of the Yellow Snack Pack tactic, although I'll confess I'm unclear on the qi cost and movement speed tradeoffs involved in landing periodically while chasing people down.

Rikimaru said:

If we had succeeded our resolve, we might have been able to get them to get along, being the glue that kept them together. Then we would be able to beat CRX with our much stronger trio.

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We have word of QM that one of the two would've left within a month, and Qi would've been rather miserable living with two second realm cultivators constantly snipping at each-other.

Kai Merah said:

It's good to make inroads with him now, since he's going to be Inner Sect with us. We have the excuse now of having had an enjoyable match with him, but if we try to talk to him in the future, it may be a bit awkward. This is honestly the best time to network with him if we want to be friends. I'm sure Cai would approve.

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Would she approve of Shen Hu? I don't think she would actually have much good to say about a boy that focused so much on cultivation that he missed the tournament. That is about as close to a useless hermit cultivating in a cave for hundreds of years as it is possible to get as a child in the outer sect.

Kai Merah said:

It's good to make inroads with him now, since he's going to be Inner Sect with us. We have the excuse now of having had an enjoyable match with him, but if we try to talk to him in the future, it may be a bit awkward. This is honestly the best time to network with him if we want to be friends. I'm sure Cai would approve.

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Raising Kittens said:

It'll give us a decent chance to sound him out politically, and perhaps secure his friendship before Sun Liling has the opportunity.

A bit of a feather in our cap, if we can pull it off.

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Hangwind said:

The two of us on the same side would be quite a sight, huh?

Or it would be like having two Engies on the same team in Team Fortress 2.

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Networking is the name of the game here.

And considering the circumstances, Sun Liling simply doesn't have the breathing room to meet Shen Hu herself, considering that the guy was pretty much a complete unknown to her faction until literally just now.

With Lu Feng knocked out, she wouldn't have anyone else to delegate that recruitment pitch to, either. Honestly, between Gan seeking the guy out for a match and Ling Qi giving him a good fight, I wouldn't be surprised if Shen Hu gravitated towards CRX's general circle of influence through inertia alone.

Provided we get there first.

mc2rpg said:

Would she approve of Shen Hu? I don't think she would actually have much good to say about a boy that focused so much on cultivation that he missed the tournament. That is about as close to a useless hermit cultivating in a cave for hundreds of years as it is possible to get as a child in the outer sect.

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And she's been slacking off on her cultivation. What does she know?

mc2rpg said:

Would she approve of Shen Hu? I don't think she would actually have much good to say about a boy that focused so much on cultivation that he missed the tournament. That is about as close to a useless hermit cultivating in a cave for hundreds of years as it is possible to get as a child in the outer sect.

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I don't think Ling Qi has any hard feelings towards him either though. We don't understand Su Ling's total disregard for advancement and we still like her well enough for a friend.

[X] ...Seek out Shen Hu, he gave you quite a runaround, it can't hurt to make nice with a peer like him

yrsillar said:

the techniques caster

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technique's

yrsillar said:

curning the mist around around him

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churning

yrsillar said:

that horrible song played unceasing

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unceasingly

yrsillar said:

the other guys frantic follow-up attempts

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guy's

yrsillar said:

he turned toward her a smile blooming across his pale features

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with a smile

yrsillar said:

She felt the beasts discontent

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the beast's

yrsillar said:

there was a certain inevitable beauty too it

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to it

Arkeus said:

"Conquering New territory" doesn't actually mean the Imperial Dynasty is going to look at them more than Shenhua, though?

Sun Shao might have managed to survive an attack by the Bai, but he didn't destroy them. Shenhua did destroy her liege. Between a dangerous general that's trapped far away with a deadly enemy locking them out, and Shenhua who has an actual history of destroying the one she sword fealty to, Shenhua is at least as dangerous, if not moreso.

You are looking at one thing and ignoring everything Shenhua did is not "crafter getting successful" but "Tyrant rebelling and destroying a pillar of the Empire, scourging the province of any dissenting voices, and posing themselves in a position threatening the Imperial House".

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Conquering new territory by being an incredibly potent conquering General is absolutely something that needs to be looked at more. That has always been the case. Because they are the ones with the military power to revolt en mass and do whatever the hell a conquering army does.

The Bai arent dead, but they have been crippled for the forseable future. Which was a brilliant move on Sun Shao's part. A wounded soldier is always a more of a drain of the resources than a live one, and that still applies here, though in another way. Since given the Bai's age and pedigree, the Dynasty cannot sent people to reinforce the Bai against the Sun without due cause. Given that it would be insulting the Bai, and a tip for the Sun and raise questions about how much the Emperors and Empresses can interfere in a Ducal house, even if weakened.

Meaning that currently, if an armed conflict were to break out the Sun could probably run over the Bai, and march in. Or simply reinforce their territories and watch the Bai throw themselves at their defenses futilely. And because it is on the fringes of the Empire anyways, the logistics involved that would be necessary to conquer the Sun's hell jungle core territory would be hellish, what with them having for sure dominance of the river navally speaking and again invading a Hell jungle with an evil goddes and corruption. Not only that the sheer cost in resources and the strain on the treasury and the other Provinces might just topple the Dynasty by themselves.

Shenhua is dangerous, but it would be much harder for her to pull off any armed revolt or the like when compared to Sun Shao. Simply because it would be easier for the Dynasty to gather a reprisal army to fight her logistically speaking. Maybe in the future she will be in a better position. But her current position is weaker than Sun Shao because she does not have the geography and distance stacking the deck for her,, which also means that she is politically in a more solid position right now.

Sun Shao has a stronger position because of his conquests, but a more fragile position politically speaking.

Both are dangerous. But Sun Shao can very easily pull off a Eastern Wu/Shu Han right now. While currently Shenhua's best bet if she has such ambitious would be to pull off a Sima Yi and worm her way into the confidence of the Dynasty, which is certainly possible given her abilities, and maybe she will pull that off in the future, but that will require a lot of work and set up. Where has Sun Shao has a set up that is already in place and thus much easier to pull off.

So let me be clear, I am not dismissing the danger Shenhua could pose to the Dynasty, its just that comparatively speaking Sun Shao still trumps her by far in terms of danger posed to the authority of the Empress, and that comes with cons and pros for both sides. And it doesnt pay for the Imperial Dynasty to try to take them both on at the same time, so focusing on the Sun more is currently better, even if they will also be keeping an eye on her.

yrsillar said:

"With our final match being settled at last," Ling Qi looked up, and for a moment, met the storm grey eyes of Sect Head Yuan, looking down at their arena with a faintly amused expression. "I call this first day to a close. Congratulations to all of our fine disciples who have passed through this initial crucible…"

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Ha! Just how much longer did our match last compared to the others?

[X] ...Seek out Shen Hu, he gave you quite a runaround, it can't hurt to make nice with a peer like him
We can hang out with our other friends later, this is the best time to talk to Shen Hu if we want to make a connection.

Han Jian's condition makes a fair amount of sense when you consider a) his lack of allies to support b) the amount of Qi he has tied up in Heijin atm, and c) how unsuited his arts likely are for taking on multiple opponents at once. Assuming they didn't all just pile on him that round had probably the least variance in ability between everyone there, which would've made it one hell of a free-for-all.

On the Bo16: I was wondering if we were going to be given a bye, as we put on an impressive showing here and so if they wanted to challenge us they'd have to put as against either a monster-equivalent or monster-lite, which would result in someone of high talent or birth not getting in.
However, we haven't actually comprehensively shown off our skills yet. Whilst that match was great for us, it still gave us both prep time and room to disengage, neither of which we're likely to get in a 1-on-1 duel. Like, if we'd been fighting Shen Hu alone right from the beginning it could've gone significantly differently.

I could see them putting us up against someone who seems stronger in a straight up fight than us (say, Chu Song or Ji Rong) and letting us prove comprehensively that we're worthy of the Inner Sect.

All that said this update was amazing, and I'm trying not to think too hard about how much I'd give for an interlude right about now.

yrsillar said:

Eh, don't get too cocky here, if you had landed and gone mano-e- mano with Shen Hu in his prepared ground, he'd have had pretty good odds of womping you. His dice would have been a fair bit higher with the bonuses there, same as Ling Qi has much better dice with her mist set up. The combination of your flight and the size of your mist just countered him pretty hard.

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Interesting. He would have needed something like 55~ Dice (unlike his current 30-45) to even have 40% chance to touch us, and would Also need at least 10AP and at least 7 bonus damage to even make us lose 2Qi in a turn, which I would have assumed be a bit higher than what his prepared ground could give him.

It's nice to see he can scale that high, though surprising.

Kai Merah said:

I don't think Ling Qi has any hard feelings towards him either though. We don't understand Su Ling's total disregard for advancement and we still like her well enough for a friend.

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I was referring specifically to Cai approving. She does not think well of hermits that live in caves and meditate solely to gain power with no impact on the world around them, and that is basically what Shen Hu is trying to be. He missed one tournament to cultivate more, and if there hasn't been a quest to force him to wake up I feel quite sure he would have missed a second. Shen Hu would be a great friend or ally if he had a totally different personality, but as it is he is just about the biggest waste of power we have seen so far.