Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
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LoganBert34
Apprentice Clerk
- Location
- Australia
You know, when the vote is a tossup between destroying the castle and destroying the entire mountain, its in good hands.
@BoneyM the meaning of destroying the mountain, do you mean flattening it of destroying the peak like the way our Marshall did? I think most of the people who are voting to destroy the mountain would settle for something significantly less than flattening it.
@BoneyM the meaning of destroying the mountain, do you mean flattening it of destroying the peak like the way our Marshall did? I think most of the people who are voting to destroy the mountain would settle for something significantly less than flattening it.
You could, but it wouldn't so much combine the strengths of the two plans as it hits you with both the weaknesses. You're exposed to the risks of counterspelling and Asarnil is distracted by chasing mages. And I'd actually have to do some research to try to figure out what would happen if you were trying to dispel a spell while the caster was demolished by a dragon.
This is you deciding what the goal of the siege is. There's no hidden details, there's no technicalities - it's just you making a statement of purpose. The end result of the campaign will be measured against the stated purpose of this siege and judged accordingly.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
wait for it
aaand there it is. Now you just need to step closer and you'll feel better immediately.
Or in other words, how generous of Mathilde to give to her enemies what she herself wishes for. Build a man a fire and all that.
What is Mathilde going to be doing if we choose one of the first two options? Because I can't think of anything better than that for her during this kind of battle. Or is the last option just an indicator that she'll try on her own without distracting any other assets? Because otherwise I'd definitely vote for something akin to "[X] Bla -[X] And also attempt to counter it yourself".
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
Every wizard except us has blown themselves up on this campaign somehow. If we're not on Dispel duty, we're not casting anything that risky at all; Maybe targeting lights for the counter-batteries, because we can sense when casters start up and immediately flag them before they can get their spells off.
If you think Mathilde would be the best respondent to enemy spells then vote for Mathilde. If you think someone else would be the best respondent to enemy spells then vote for them. If you think the best option is all of the above, I invite you to reconsider.
I normally really try not to handhold the vote but this is would be one of the trap options that I promised not to include, because by god don't have Mathilde trying to unravel a Dhar spell in motion and then dump either or both of a dragon or an artillery barrage into the mix unless you're tired of Mathilde being alive and intact. "Hey, if we drop mortar fire on the person defusing the bomb there's twice as much chance of the bomb no longer being a problem!"
And on a related note, there's a marked tendency I've noticed for a QM to present an either-or decision and for a significant portion of the readers to immediately grasp for the flimsiest justification for how they can have their cake and eat it too. And it's really starting to bother me.
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- Location
- Singapore
In my experience a bop on the head is usually enough to stop that each time it shows up, problem is it keeps happening. You have my sympathies.
Valkur
The True Valkyria, Valkur!
- Location
- Fólkvangr
Oh dude you need to GM a D&D 5e section. I'e done a few and it IS he'll. I' fine with bending the rules but they want to apply the rules to like certain situations. While also one uping each other in weapons and armor. Gah!
- Location
- Aotearoa
I have been assuming her wounds likely to affect rolls to counterspell, so was envisaging her as more a spotter and marker for the artillery, thinking it'd be more effective than personally attempting to counter an unknown number of enemy spellcasters. Hopefully that's reasonable/to be taken as read?
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[X] The complete destruction of the mountain that Castle Drakenhof is built upon.
[X] Leave it to the dwarven professionals.
[X] Unleash him early and often.
[X] Treat it as enemy artillery and counter-battery accordingly.
I want to rearrange a bunch of landscape because there will be tunnels and dungeons under the castle and riddling the mountain.
[X] Leave it to the dwarven professionals.
[X] Unleash him early and often.
[X] Treat it as enemy artillery and counter-battery accordingly.
I want to rearrange a bunch of landscape because there will be tunnels and dungeons under the castle and riddling the mountain.
If she's not busy elsewhere and there's a no-risk way for her to contribute, she'll do so. If there's multiple ways, there'll be a vote to cover it.
- Location
- Aotearoa
The problem with setting that as a goal as Boney said, is that destroying a mountain with cannon probably isn't an especially realistic goal... Leading to the siege being judged a failure if we run out of ammo or time.
[X] The complete destruction of the entirety of Castle Drakenhof.
[X] Leave it to the dwarven professionals.
[X] Use him to counter any non-trivial sally attempt or any other counterattack.
[X] Treat it as enemy artillery and counter-battery accordingly.
1) The goal is our wargoal. Razing the castle is ambitious and achievable, the dwarfs, if dakka remains would STILL do their best to cave in any catacombs. Leveling the mountain sounds a lot more like Mathilde is dangerously unstable to the army, if in a way that dwarfs understand. Leveling the mountain as a wargoal is unlikely to be achieved before allied forces had enough.
2) Dwarfs know all about how to properly kill a fortification with extensive underground element. Let them plan the demolitions.
3) Asarnil is best used in a counterhero role. If elite vampire or horrible basement gribbly from the dawn of time comes out Asarnil is THE best duelist.
4) Against spells we're better using our ridiculous number of cannon to counterfire than exposing the shorter ranged dragon. Whichever castle section contains a spellcaster is a priority target to begin with.
[X] Leave it to the dwarven professionals.
[X] Use him to counter any non-trivial sally attempt or any other counterattack.
[X] Treat it as enemy artillery and counter-battery accordingly.
1) The goal is our wargoal. Razing the castle is ambitious and achievable, the dwarfs, if dakka remains would STILL do their best to cave in any catacombs. Leveling the mountain sounds a lot more like Mathilde is dangerously unstable to the army, if in a way that dwarfs understand. Leveling the mountain as a wargoal is unlikely to be achieved before allied forces had enough.
2) Dwarfs know all about how to properly kill a fortification with extensive underground element. Let them plan the demolitions.
3) Asarnil is best used in a counterhero role. If elite vampire or horrible basement gribbly from the dawn of time comes out Asarnil is THE best duelist.
4) Against spells we're better using our ridiculous number of cannon to counterfire than exposing the shorter ranged dragon. Whichever castle section contains a spellcaster is a priority target to begin with.
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- Location
- Hollister
[X] The complete destruction of the entirety of Castle Drakenhof.
[X] Leave it to the dwarven professionals.
[X] Use him to counter any non-trivial sally attempt or any other counterattack.
[X] Treat it as enemy artillery and counter-battery accordingly
[X] Leave it to the dwarven professionals.
[X] Use him to counter any non-trivial sally attempt or any other counterattack.
[X] Treat it as enemy artillery and counter-battery accordingly
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] The complete destruction of the entirety of Castle Drakenhof.
[X] Leave it to the dwarven professionals.
[X] Use him to counter any non-trivial sally attempt or any other counterattack.
[X] Treat it as enemy artillery and counter-battery accordingly
[X] Leave it to the dwarven professionals.
[X] Use him to counter any non-trivial sally attempt or any other counterattack.
[X] Treat it as enemy artillery and counter-battery accordingly
Guile
Having a really great time right now
There's really no stopping a group of people from trying to win a quest, Boney. It's how they show they care.
You can try to punish people for caring about your creation incorrectly/stupidly, but I've never seen that actually work. You can't teach a constantly-shifting, faceless horde of internet people anything.
- Location
- Upon the back of the Great A'Tuin
[X] The complete destruction of the entirety of Castle Drakenhof.
[X] Leave it to the dwarven professionals.
[X] Use him to counter any non-trivial sally attempt or any other counterattack.
[X] Treat it as enemy artillery and counter-battery accordingly.
[X] Leave it to the dwarven professionals.
[X] Use him to counter any non-trivial sally attempt or any other counterattack.
[X] Treat it as enemy artillery and counter-battery accordingly.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Seems I was ninja'd.
Keep in mind that we have Dwarfs with us. If we loudly proclaim we are going to flatten the mountain they are going to hold us to it. Especially if we put them in charge. And Mathilde might not know that, so she may phrase it that way even if OOC we only wanted to decapitate and deface the mountain.
Sorry. In this case I didn't know that counterspelling a distant enemy could go so wrong for the counterspeller. I thought it was using a generic spell to disrupt the caster directly, thus dumping the Dhar backfire primarily on him.
More generally, you usually tell us that we don't need to micromanage because Mathilde is competent enough to do the obvious stuff herself. In this case I didn't know if counterspelling whenever she doesn't have anything better to do despite artillery/dragon already being on the job would be that obvious thing. Because if I'm not wrong then the spell usually has already been fired before the artillery is even turned towards that target or a dragon redirected.
After all isn't that exactly what happened in Drakenhof City? A necromancer cast something and two casters tried to counterspell, one being faster than the other. Artillery then turned the full brunt against the necromancer, but they can't very well shoot a magic bolt out of the sky.
So necromancer casts, we try to counterspell, and, fail or no, the artillery or dragon (depending on the vote) fries the necromancer seemed like the logical thing to do. After all they won't fire at him before he's cast his thing since they don't feel him doing it in the first place. And if we tell them when we feel it he'll already have cast it or we've already finished counterspelling.
But I guess I'm picturing the whole thing very wrong and actually in Warhammer battlefield spells take so long and are so flashy that you can counter by attacking with artillery before the spell has finished taking effect?
On an even more general note regarding questers trying to combine two options, I know I'm guilty of that at times. But only when in a scenario it seems wholly realistic to me to do so. If there are two guys to talk to, why not say something to both? But if you can either pay this guy or pay that guy then paying half each is obviously not an option in almost all cases. It's similar to when I complained that getting to know someone by spending a few days with them could only be done by sacrificing a whole month on the action. When I think about it I get that it's a game mechanics thing where something that gives tangible benefits like that needs a cost and actions costing the same opportunity wise is much easier to handle in the technical background. But my gut reaction is still "That doesn't make any sense. Mathilde has managed to cramp in so many crazy things into one month at other times and now visiting Wilhelmina and walking away on the same day due to her fight with her son cost us the same amount of effort?" and no matter how I try to see it from a more logical point of view it still frustrates me.
It's just that I approach quests like this on more of a "what would I do and how would the fictional world react to it" basis than on a "turn to page X if you choose this" basis, especially when you're so awesome at keeping everything consistent and seemingly remembering to keep track of all the little consequences while simultaneously writing a really immersive and captivating story. In return I will never ask why a certain crit fail managed to destroy all of a character's wounds or whatever. Abelheim died to shit luck, but I don't doubt that a skeleton unit can down a hero unit.
Edit: I should actually vote instead of just ranting
.
[X] The complete destruction of the entirety of Castle Drakenhof.
[X] Leave it to the dwarven professionals.
[X] Use him to counter any non-trivial sally attempt or any other counterattack.
[X] Treat it as enemy artillery and counter-battery accordingly.
What in case of more than one spellcaster though?
Keep in mind that we have Dwarfs with us. If we loudly proclaim we are going to flatten the mountain they are going to hold us to it. Especially if we put them in charge. And Mathilde might not know that, so she may phrase it that way even if OOC we only wanted to decapitate and deface the mountain.
Sorry. In this case I didn't know that counterspelling a distant enemy could go so wrong for the counterspeller. I thought it was using a generic spell to disrupt the caster directly, thus dumping the Dhar backfire primarily on him.
More generally, you usually tell us that we don't need to micromanage because Mathilde is competent enough to do the obvious stuff herself. In this case I didn't know if counterspelling whenever she doesn't have anything better to do despite artillery/dragon already being on the job would be that obvious thing. Because if I'm not wrong then the spell usually has already been fired before the artillery is even turned towards that target or a dragon redirected.
After all isn't that exactly what happened in Drakenhof City? A necromancer cast something and two casters tried to counterspell, one being faster than the other. Artillery then turned the full brunt against the necromancer, but they can't very well shoot a magic bolt out of the sky.
So necromancer casts, we try to counterspell, and, fail or no, the artillery or dragon (depending on the vote) fries the necromancer seemed like the logical thing to do. After all they won't fire at him before he's cast his thing since they don't feel him doing it in the first place. And if we tell them when we feel it he'll already have cast it or we've already finished counterspelling.
But I guess I'm picturing the whole thing very wrong and actually in Warhammer battlefield spells take so long and are so flashy that you can counter by attacking with artillery before the spell has finished taking effect?
On an even more general note regarding questers trying to combine two options, I know I'm guilty of that at times. But only when in a scenario it seems wholly realistic to me to do so. If there are two guys to talk to, why not say something to both? But if you can either pay this guy or pay that guy then paying half each is obviously not an option in almost all cases. It's similar to when I complained that getting to know someone by spending a few days with them could only be done by sacrificing a whole month on the action. When I think about it I get that it's a game mechanics thing where something that gives tangible benefits like that needs a cost and actions costing the same opportunity wise is much easier to handle in the technical background. But my gut reaction is still "That doesn't make any sense. Mathilde has managed to cramp in so many crazy things into one month at other times and now visiting Wilhelmina and walking away on the same day due to her fight with her son cost us the same amount of effort?" and no matter how I try to see it from a more logical point of view it still frustrates me.
It's just that I approach quests like this on more of a "what would I do and how would the fictional world react to it" basis than on a "turn to page X if you choose this" basis, especially when you're so awesome at keeping everything consistent and seemingly remembering to keep track of all the little consequences while simultaneously writing a really immersive and captivating story. In return I will never ask why a certain crit fail managed to destroy all of a character's wounds or whatever. Abelheim died to shit luck, but I don't doubt that a skeleton unit can down a hero unit.
Edit: I should actually vote instead of just ranting
.[X] The complete destruction of the entirety of Castle Drakenhof.
[X] Leave it to the dwarven professionals.
[X] Use him to counter any non-trivial sally attempt or any other counterattack.
[X] Treat it as enemy artillery and counter-battery accordingly.
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DarkLight140
Credit to Team
- Location
- Lost in my thoughts
A big part of the reason it's so widely suggested is that combining dispel with other options is something that just happened in the Drakenhof battle; Mathilde and the Patriarch stood by to dispel an incoming enemy spell, negated it, and then the dwarves did counterbattery fire to annihilate the caster. It didn't take particularly excellent rolls, it didn't appear to have any additional risk to our mages, and it worked spectacularly. Because of this, saying "why not keep doing this thing that just worked" is the intuitively obvious move for the players, and the fact that you're now ruling that dangerous to impossible is somewhat baffling.
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LoganBert34
Apprentice Clerk
- Location
- Australia
Why do you think politics in all its forms tends to be nasty and full of self inflicted delusions? Forum voting included.