I know, that "can never be cast reliably" is pretty clear.
Still, better to have it, of course only if we get out Magic up to level 8, and not use it that to need it and not have it.
Don't get me wrong, we are nowhere near close to that power, but if Hexensohn would have been there with Abel instead of us he propably would have won and Abel survived.
Is there any indication Hexensohn knew any (significant amount of) Battle Magic? He was Patriarch, you don't need to be a Battle Mage to be one, if fact it's probably a hindrance to playing the politics required. More likely a Wizard Lord. Plenty of power for Mathilde to aspire to down that route without ever bothering with volatile battle magics.
Except The Army books make it clear that you can't be a wizard lord with out being a level 3 or 4 wizard who can cast battle magic which means we need to advance up the levels all the way to the top. If battle wizard is a rank does it exist along side the rank of Also all the other media related to those members of the colleges who can cast Pit of Shades level spells shows they are eccentric not insane to the point they can not be let out in public. So I would say that the WHFRP 2nd edition book Realms of Sorcery attempts to limit the scale of magic in that game to keep people from killing army is weird when compared to or fantasy stuff because their are no human wizards who can come close to killing a full army except maybe the head of the colleges and the Supreme Patriarch and even rarely. So I would say that their should be some battle level wizards who can live life's out side of the colleges in Altdorf because they have strong will and minds. We do not even needed to use them all that much just learn a few of them. Plus we do not know what killed Jovi only that he exploded in to a conflagration of white flames that won't stop burning, so while miscast is the most likely reason he could have had his spell interfered with instead of mucking it up himself because no wizard was watching when it happened IC.
Alliterate he talked about using battle magic level spells like the Aspect of the Dread Knight when he was talking during the command meeting so I would say yes. This is the line, "There are no battle magics at play here," reports the Patriarch, "save those that we deliver." Implying that all three of the death wizards present could cast Battle Magic. Plus in all the other media related to imperial wizards shows the heads of the colleges as able to cast the highest level spells of battle level magic.
Except The Army books make it clear that you can't be a wizard lord with out being a level 3 or 4 wizard who can cast battle magic which means we need to advance up the levels all the way to the top. If battle wizard is a rank does it exist along side the rank of Also all the other media related to those members of the colleges who can cast Pit of Shades level spells shows they are eccentric not insane to the point they can not be let out in public. So I would say that the WHFRP 2nd edition book Realms of Sorcery attempts to limit the scale of magic in that game to keep people from killing army is weird when compared to or fantasy stuff because their are no human wizards who can come close to killing a full army except maybe the head of the colleges and the Supreme Patriarch and even rarely. So I would say that their should be some battle level wizards who can live life's out side of the colleges in Altdorf because they have strong will and minds. We do not even needed to use them all that much just learn a few of them. Plus we do not know what killed Jovi only that he exploded in to a conflagration of white flames that won't stop burning, so while miscast is the most likely reason he could have had his spell interfered with instead of mucking it up himself because no wizard was watching when it happened IC.
Alliterate he talked about using battle magic level spells like the Aspect of the Dread Knight when he was talking during the command meeting so I would say yes. This is the line, "There are no battle magics at play here," reports the Patriarch, "save those that we deliver." Implying that all three of the death wizards present could cast Battle Magic. Plus in all the other media related to imperial wizards shows the heads of the colleges as able to cast the highest level spells of battle level magic.
Well, we have Word Of QM on the matter, which seems to be primarily based on the RPG rather than the wargame (which makes sense to me). Learning battle magic needs demonstrated devotion to the Empire. Learning it without being sequestered as a Magical WMD needs serious string-pulling. It makes sense a M/Patriarch is capable of that string pulling (though Hexenson could have been talking about the spells his per Battle Wizards would cast).
But you don't need to be a Battle Wizard to be a Wizard Lord, in fact the vast majority aren't.
Well, we have Word Of QM on the matter, which seems to be primarily based on the RPG rather than the wargame (which makes sense to me). Learning battle magic needs demonstrated devotion to the Empire. Learning it without being sequestered as a Magical WMD needs serious string-pulling.
Sure, but that string-pulling is a thing to let the Patriarch allow you to learn Battle Magic.
Who else would make that decision?
Anyone higher than your order's Patriarch propably can't know each Wizard with th e potential to reach that power well enough to make that decision and people of lower rank are just then allowed to learn it themselves.
It would be exeptionally strange to be head of an order without knowing the highest category of spells of that order.
Not saying the Patriarch must have completly mastered Battlemagic and use it often, but he should personally know and have experienced what his subordinates are doing.
Sure, but that string-pulling is a thing to let the Patriarch allow you to learn Battle Magic.
Who else would make that decision?
Anyone higher than your order's Patriarch propably can't know each Wizard with th e potential to reach that power well enough to make that decision and people of lower rank are just then allowed to learn it themselves.
It would be exeptionally strange to be head of an order without knowing the highest category of spells of that order.
Not saying the Patriarch must have completly mastered Battlemagic and use it often, but he should personally know and have experienced what his subordinates are doing.
I don't see why, necessarily. It's a specialist path. As we've established, being a Battle Wizard is a highly restricted lifestyle for Wizards of proven loyalty as much as anything.
Highly connected and powerful Wizards can perhaps learn some Batlle Magic. The order is 'political connections first, then maybe ask for a battle magic spell' to avoid being considered a Battle Wizard, because that life sucks for a PC. A political enemy could campaign to have you treated as a Battle Wizard, citing evidence of your unreliability etc.
But... I don't think it follows that it's necessary, or even expected to know them. The Patriarch rolls out the Battle Wizard cadre when they need them.
I find it helps to think 'WMD' when reading Battle Magic, to understand how it's treated by society. You keep a damn close eye on anyone with access to them.
[*] Leave a garrison; it is now de facto Stirland, not just de jure.
-[*] Medium Garrison - 6k men, 20 cannon.
[*] Nothing has changed. We have cannon, we have dragon. Castle Drakenhof falls.
[*] Execute him publicly, in the traditional way. Burn him at the stake. (+morale)
The pyre has been set up in the open plain outside the city walls, deliberately close to the gate where so many lost their lives, with the necromancer already tied firmly to the stake and the wood stacked high around him and doused in lamp oil, and a brazier set up nearby. He had awoken, briefly, at the preparations, and passed out as the most painful of them were inflicted. No matter. He'll awaken soon enough.
Even with Army of Stirland reduced by almost half, and significant portions of what remain busy elsewhere, the crowd arrayed before you is of breathtaking size. Thousands of men gather in the fading light, summoned by the messages relayed down the ranks: the execution of a captured necromancer will be occurring, and all who wish to attend are welcome. Blood, bandages, and distant stares are the fashion of the day, and you're no exception, since the Shallyan doctors finally gathered their nerves and did their timid best to convince you to let them bind your wounds, and you didn't have the strength to resist.
The opportunity exists, you dimly recognize, to deliver some speech, to fire the crowd up with thoughts of vengeance. But at your best you are no great public speaker, and this is far from your best. You hurt, inside and out, and like the men arrayed before you, you yearn for warmth and sleep and you're not going to get anywhere near enough of either.
So you keep things as simple as possible. "This," you call out, "is a necromancer. The penalty for necromancy, as we all know, is death." You turn to the pyre, regarding the man tied atop it; his mouth is very firmly gagged and his fingers broken to prevent any last-minute spellcasting, and you can barely hear his muffled attempts at screaming from where you are as he thrashes helplessly against the bindings. "The corpses he defiled took a great many of our comrades from us. And they took the life of the Elector Count Abelhelm Van Hal." You're hugely relieved that your voice doesn't crack at that. He can take so much, you reflect, and you can only take his life once. It will have to do. "The penalty for every one of those lives taken, is death."
There are words for this, for ordering an execution; ritual and formality used by judges and witch hunters alike. Van Hal would know the words, but you don't.
So you look at the man, one of the necromancers that raised and directed the horde that had cost you and Stirland so much, and say nothing. You take the torch from the brazier, walk up to him, and hold it to the kindling. It takes barely a second to catch, and you drop the torch and back away as the flames start to climb, banishing the evening chill. You turn and regard the gathered men, whose eyes are universally locked onto the pyre as the necromancer thrashes and screams into his gag. Some few are sickened, but most watch with grim satisfaction. These men are Stirlanders, and have lived in the shadow of Sylvania their entire lives, as their parents have and as their children will. After today, Sylvania will have one less horror to inflict upon the innocent.
You turn back to the pyre, catching glimpses of the necromancer's terrified and agonized expression through the rising flames, and smile.
---
There's a thousand steps to garrisoning a town, and though no one man in the Army of Stirland can be said to know all of them, everyone knows their role and that of their direct subordinates, and that's apparently enough. Houses are turned into barracks, warehouses into hospitals, taverns into headquarters, and by midnight there's Stirlandian troops patrolling the walls, and by torchlight dwarven winches lower dwarven cannon and raise in place a score of Imperial greatcannon.
The tricky part, or so you gather, are the populace of the town hosting the troops. Even on friendly soil there's dozens of tricky little issues to be navigated, and on unfriendly soil the issues remain but with added urgency. Thankfully, it seems that the populace of this town come pre-cowed - the fanatics perished at the blades of the Army of Stirland and the cannonbolts of Zhufbar, those that remain are the regular townsfolk, who scrape what living they can from this blighted land and try to avoid the attention of whatever inhuman predator currently claims the title of their ruler. Their natural state is terrified obedience, and the martial law of an occupying force is, if anything, an improvement.
(You, of course, don't buy the 'poor victim Sylvanian' act for one minute, and instruct the officers to be left behind to be suitably cautious. The men are garrisoned together in one quarter of the town, and any of the townsfolk who try to cross into that quarter are to be given one warning before being riddled with crossbow bolts.)
There's nothing for you to do after you give the order, and that's a problem. You ache for sleep, but you don't dare stop. So you make a nuisance of yourself looking over shoulders and making sure things are getting done that are indeed getting done. You're not the only one going without sleep, but the men are resolved, the halflings are determined, the dwarfs refuse to acknowledge the hardship and the elf claims he can rest half of his brain at a time, though you're mostly sure he's just messing with you.
So at first light of dawn the remainder of the Army of Stirland marches, and with it marches the combined Throng of Zhufbar and Karak Kadrin, the Rangers of the Moot, one Knightly Order and representatives from four more, the tattered remnants of the Altdorf Regiment of Honour, and one elf atop one dragon.
---
As the morning wanes, the ultimate target of this crusade grows ever larger on the horizon. Perched atop a lonely mountain jutting out from the World's Edge mountain range, the castle starts high above the landscape and climbs higher still. Even from atop your horse, you can hear the unsure muttering in the ranks. Seen through their eyes, you can understand it. Though the castle compares unfavourably to the Imperial Palace or the Grand Cathedral in Altdorf, it easily outstrips any structure in Stirland. The winding path to the gate, and a second winding path from the enormous courtyard to the castle proper, would be a nightmare to assault. Even the most inept of defenders could hold off any number of attackers for as long as they damn well pleased.
Castle Drakenhof has stood for over a thousand years. It is older than Stirland's claim over Sylvania, older than the von Carsteins that made it their home. The soldiers of the Army of Stirland, and you'd wager the 'Elector Countess' herself, believe that to be proof that it cannot be taken by force of arms.
What they don't realize is this: that of the many things Castle Drakenhof predates, one very important milestone is the introduction of gunpowder.
You look past the worried men to the baggage train, where over one hundred blackpowder siege weapons are being pulled, push, carried, and generally manhandled (and dwarfhandled) towards Castle Drakenhof, and a grim smile returns to your face.
---
Goal:
[ ] The confirmed death of the Elector Countess.
[ ] The sacking of Castle Drakenhof.
[ ] The taking of Castle Drakenhof at least somewhat intact.
[ ] The complete destruction of the keep of Castle Drakenhof.
[ ] The complete destruction of the entirety of Castle Drakenhof.
[ ] The complete destruction of the mountain that Castle Drakenhof is built upon. [ ] The exacavation of a pit on the site where the mountain that Castle Drakenhof was built upon used to stand.
Deployment:
[ ] Leave it to the human professionals.
[ ] Leave it to the dwarven professionals.
[ ] Leave it to the halfling professionals?
[ ] Write in.
The Elf Factor:
[ ] Unleash him early and often.
[ ] Keep him in reserve for now.
[ ] Use him to counter any non-trivial sally attempt or any other counterattack.
Response to Offensive Magic:
[ ] Treat it as enemy artillery and counter-battery accordingly.
[ ] Unleash Asarnil on it.
[ ] Attempt to counter it yourself.
- For deployment, assume a circular mountain base surrounded by forest; small hills and rises can be found if desired. A throng of approx 12k dwarves can pretty much clear an arbitrary amount of forest as needed.
Looks like we have four votes to make this time around.
[X] The complete destruction of the keep of Castle Drakenhof.
[X] The complete destruction of the entirety of Castle Drakenhof.
[X] The complete destruction of the mountain that Castle Drakenhof is built upon.
Weird, it seems like I am only able to make three. How queer.
[X] The complete destruction of the mountain that Castle Drakenhof is built upon.
[X] Leave it to the dwarven professionals.
[X] Unleash him early and often.
[X] Treat it as enemy artillery and counter-battery accordingly.
[X] Plan Burn It, Maybe Sift Through The Ashes For Loot Later
-[X] The complete destruction of the keep of Castle Drakenhof.
-[X] Leave it to the dwarven professionals.
-[X] Unleash Asarnil on it.
Dwarves and halflings fire. Humans hold the line on any counterattack. Asarnil is dispatched to burn clean any Drakenhof countermagic. Mathilde can try to sub in as a second-stringer on Dispel if Asarnil's busy.
[X] The complete destruction of the entirety of Castle Drakenhof.
[X] Leave it to the dwarven professionals.
These two I feel are the easiest picks. We don't want to leave the castle intact at all (though going for the mountain is too far), and the dwarves know their stuff better than us.
[X] Use him to counter any non-trivial sally attempt or any other counterattack.
[X] Unleash Asarnil on it.
Tentatively leaning towards this. We'd be assigning Asarnil to any non-trivial counterattacks and/or magical attacks, as I'd rather our artillery focus on the castle, and as badly as the necromancer in the town did I don't want to overestimate our skills/underestimate the enemies potential magic.
[X] The complete destruction of the entirety of Castle Drakenhof.
[X] Leave it to the dwarven professionals.
[X] Use him to counter any non-trivial sally attempt or any other counterattack.
[X] Unleash Asarnil on it.
[X] The complete destruction of the keep of Castle Drakenhof.
[X] The complete destruction of the entirety of Castle Drakenhof.
[X] Leave it to the dwarven professionals.
[X] Use him to counter any non-trivial sally attempt or any other counterattack.
[X] Treat it as enemy artillery and counter-battery accordingly.
[X] Attempt to counter it yourself.
[X] The complete destruction of the entirety of Castle Drakenhof.
[X] Leave it to the dwarven professionals.
[X] Use him to counter any non-trivial sally attempt or any other counterattack.
[X] Unleash Asarnil on it.
[] The exacavation of a pit on the site where the mountain that Castle Drakenhof was built upon used to stand.
I don't understand why this option is crossed out. It worked for the blood fountain, it can work here too. Smash everything there into smithereens.
[X] The complete destruction of the mountain that Castle Drakenhof is built upon.
This should be our primary goal. Excavating for secrets, like the one that killed the Patriarch? That can be done after those secrets are reduced to splinters.
I think this is a bad choice as a goal. As much as it would be great to do so, and we should totally do it if we get the opportunity, I think we can't predictably expect it, which is what one should set goals for.
If we smash castle and sift through rubble for days and find nothing, there's no obvious way of telling if the Countess was caught in the collapse and destroyed, or caught elsewhere in the collapse and buried alive still animate, or fled in secret before collapse.
I am just stealing an earlier vote and putting it into plan format for ease of voting.
[X] Plan Destroy Drakenhof
-[X] The complete destruction of the entirety of Castle Drakenhof.
-[X] Leave it to the dwarven professionals.
-[X] Use him to counter any non-trivial sally attempt or any other counterattack.
-[X] Unleash Asarnil on it.
The dwarfs know best about cannons, I guess, so I will leave the deployment to them. Asarnil kills everything that tries to stop us from bombarding the castle to rubbish.
Doesn't the Human army have experience bombarding a mountain until it is half as big as it used to be? Pretty sure they did that against that one wellspring of blood thing. Just saying, not sure how they measure up against the Dwarves, but it can't be that bad.
[X] The complete destruction of the mountain that Castle Drakenhof is built upon.
[X] Leave it to the dwarven professionals.
[X] Use him to counter any non-trivial sally attempt or any other counterattack.
[X] Unleash Asarnil on it.
Changing to this, we have precedent for destroying a mountain with artillery fire so we know it can be done and the wiki states that there are huge catacombs beneath the castle, those need to be collapsed.
Let's not put all of our eggs in one basket guys, even a elf Prince on a dragon can fall to accidents of war, no need to look further than our elector count.
Let's keep our dragon in reserve and bombard the shit out of the castle with our artillery.
