- Location
- The United States
- Pronouns
- He/They
Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Fantasy
- Location
- The Temple of the Winds
I agree, presented as it was, the vote was pretty much finished the moment the update was posted.
- Location
- scrabbling
I sort of want to make a list of 'Vote Structures that Control the Voter' now.
- Location
- Fabulously Rainbow Ireland
Ahahahaha you serious? A colorful way of stating she wants to get rid of corruption in the province is demonstrating she's "unhinged"?
I hate to be harsh, but you should refresh your memory of those events, here I'll do it for you
"QM gives straightforward morality test of either killing an innocent for power you need or not compromising your ideals. Stupid voters make a write-in to kill themselves because they're "oh so smart" and think they figured out an AWESOME third option but fail and die because they stabbed themselves in the soul with a soul-killing weapon and then get mad at the TOTALLY UNFORESEEABLE consequences"
So not at all similar to this situation.
- Location
- Brazil, Minas gerais
[X] Admit to the deception about the market, apologize
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
[X] Admit to the deception about the market, apologize
Either way, this could backfire on us. But since we've got one Omake commitment to massaging the results, that helps. I think we can still get one more?
But yeah, this is a rough choice. Either choice could backfire if done wrongly. I'm not against making amends to these people--after all, it was a shitty thing we did and we wouldn't have done if not obligated to do so.
Either way, this could backfire on us. But since we've got one Omake commitment to massaging the results, that helps. I think we can still get one more?
But yeah, this is a rough choice. Either choice could backfire if done wrongly. I'm not against making amends to these people--after all, it was a shitty thing we did and we wouldn't have done if not obligated to do so.
Last edited:
[X] Remain silent, thank her sincerely for her trust.
- Location
- scrabbling
"Here's my nugget of truth, Cai: I lied to you."
"So how can I trust you after that?"
"lol I dunno my conscience felt bad but now that you know that I was willing to commit a crime and then frame a schmuck we're besties right?"
"So how can I trust you after that?"
"lol I dunno my conscience felt bad but now that you know that I was willing to commit a crime and then frame a schmuck we're besties right?"
- Location
- scrabbling
we haven't concluded the 'investigation' but we have already planted the evidence for the framing. it's like 'criminal conspiracy to commit a crime: the crimining'
and you can't just say 'oh but we don't tell her that truth, that's a shade too far' when a confessing-Ling Qi's already compulsively honest about implicating herself
Last edited:
It doesn't matter until we - or whathisnameKabuto - actually try to say, publically, "This guy did it".
- Location
- scrabbling
It DOES matter. If I intend to murder someone but blurt out to the police that I'm ordering this hydrochloric acid under my neighbor's name (for dissolving the body), then I still get charged, and more than that, I'm still just as bad a person—just less competent.
Last edited:
Given that confessing will completely fuck over our relationship with Li Suyin at minimum? No.
Well let's see. QM gives straightforward IQ test of either confessing to inspector Javert that they are a thief and screwing over their friends, contacts and 9 months of ingame work with the character finally climbing out of poverty and getting friends because he has a tragic backstory guys, don't you want to hug him?. Or not telling him and losing nothing. That's it, no innocent life hanging in the balance, no risk to anyone.
Stupid voters pick the first option because they're 'oh so smart' and think 'the power of friendship' is all you need. Then get mad at the TOTALLY UNFOSEEABLE consequences of screwing up 9 months of work and their relationships with all their friends.
An omake is literally ONE SUCCESS on a social roll against a probably high penalty of "I am justice". It is not a "get out of consequences free" card.
If we could make it up to them without quite possibly totally screwing ourselves over then that would be one thing. But the main arguments for telling Cai seem to be: 'NAKAMA', 'We can test Cai! This totally can't backfire massively guys!' and 'she knows but is a total hypocrite about the loyalty issues she know's we're facing despite the fact that being straightforward would solve things much more easily' or some combination therof.
EDIT: Now I really am gonna leave the thread before I do or say something I'll really regret.
Last edited:
- Location
- scrabbling
I don't even think she knows. The reason we're having this conversation is because she's terrible enough at intrigue to offload the work to FX and LQ. Either she's such a good liar that she's been giving a false impression of being a bad liar, or she doesn't know.
Except nobody is murdered? Which is good? That analogy doesn't make sense.
Rude.
[X] Admit to the deception about the market, apologize.
I want to get closer to Xin. Ferreting a secret and telling one seem like it would get us closer to the new moon and thus Xin.
Ok, so this is tricky.
So, generally this would be the kind of situation where plausible deniability is important. Actually knowing what Ling Qi and Fu Xiang got up to would be exactly the kind of thing that most leaders would desperately not want to know, because it creates massive problems for them. They'd rather quietly stay in ignorance.
The problem here is two-fold. Firstly: is Cai that sort of person? Second: we have already arguably gotten her involved. By framing someone like that, if Cai lets things go ahead an injustice will be committed under her authority. This, as others have noted, tramples all over her ideals and the rule of law. This isn't something she could just stay ignorant of and let everyone move on past - it directly undermines everything she's trying to do.
But what about trust? This is a difficult thing. Firstly, I would not frame "trust" as trusting her to let us get away with this. That would be blatant corruption, and strongly against everything we've seen from her. And, frankly, for all the people who say "if she does anything then we know we can't work with her", I'd say that that's ridiculous. We are the ones who created the problem here. We didn't have to do Fu Xiang's favor like this. We could have said that undermining her order and justice like that was unacceptable, and offered to do something else. We didn't. Working with her just entails taking responsibility for our actions, accepting whatever punishment comes our way, and never doing shit like this again. That's hardly a dealbreaker. Hell, having a boss who actually pushes us to be a better person is arguably something Ling Qi would like - it's better than our other role-models (Meizhen and Xiulan).
To those who say "she wants us to be a spy, things like this are expected" I disagree. There are a lot of things we can do that aren't trampling all over her justice. Gathering intel, acquiring politically awkward blackmail, acquiring evidence of crimes so justice can be delivered, scouting, sabotaging enemies in war... This are all things our sneaky skillset is helpful for. They are not anti-justice in the same way that breaking the law and framing people so that they are unjustly punished is.
THAT BEING SAID. Do I think that confessing is the right idea? That's more tricky. Confessing makes life very difficult for everyone. It would likely have serious long term consequences for our relationship with Fu Xiang that could cause us a lot of trouble. Long term, minor crimes done in the Outer Sect aren't anything anyone will really care about later. They're only an issue right now. Confessing doesn't help anyone it is important to note. It is purely a manifestation of Ling Qi feeling guilty, and not wanting to lie to Cai at all. Telling the truth, however, doesn't help Cai, doesn't help Ling Qi, and doesn't help Fu Xiang. It's bad for everyone. Of course, one could readily label that an excuse to take the easy route out, and this would not be invalid.
Confessing gives us Ling Qi taking responsibility for her actions, and paying penance in order to cleanse her conscience. Then, perhaps, we can move on and strive to be better in the future (though with a lot of people pissed at us, and a lot of political trouble for Team Cai, and ... yeah).
This might just be taking the easy route out, but I would prefer Ling Qi to a) stay silent, and b) reciprocate by sharing why she wants to be a better person, and what she's done in the past that she doesn't want to do again. And to feel really guilty about this whole mess and endeavor to be a much better person in the future.
We have hinted at our ideals in our past conversations with her - our dislike of the behaviour of cultivators in the outer sect, and our support for her goals - but we haven't really opened up about why we support her to her. We've only really obliquely discussed our feelings about our past in that recent conversation with Meizhen. I would argue that this is the ideal time to open up about to Cai about why we want to be a better person, and why we've supported her against the arguments of Sun Liling and Chu Song. If this whole scene is about us establishing mutual trust and a more personal connection, then sharing our feelings here is, I would argue, what we should be doing.
@yrsillar if we don't confess here, will it result in the conversation just ending without us reciprocating to Cai at all? Because that doesn't really feel right.
So, generally this would be the kind of situation where plausible deniability is important. Actually knowing what Ling Qi and Fu Xiang got up to would be exactly the kind of thing that most leaders would desperately not want to know, because it creates massive problems for them. They'd rather quietly stay in ignorance.
The problem here is two-fold. Firstly: is Cai that sort of person? Second: we have already arguably gotten her involved. By framing someone like that, if Cai lets things go ahead an injustice will be committed under her authority. This, as others have noted, tramples all over her ideals and the rule of law. This isn't something she could just stay ignorant of and let everyone move on past - it directly undermines everything she's trying to do.
But what about trust? This is a difficult thing. Firstly, I would not frame "trust" as trusting her to let us get away with this. That would be blatant corruption, and strongly against everything we've seen from her. And, frankly, for all the people who say "if she does anything then we know we can't work with her", I'd say that that's ridiculous. We are the ones who created the problem here. We didn't have to do Fu Xiang's favor like this. We could have said that undermining her order and justice like that was unacceptable, and offered to do something else. We didn't. Working with her just entails taking responsibility for our actions, accepting whatever punishment comes our way, and never doing shit like this again. That's hardly a dealbreaker. Hell, having a boss who actually pushes us to be a better person is arguably something Ling Qi would like - it's better than our other role-models (Meizhen and Xiulan).
To those who say "she wants us to be a spy, things like this are expected" I disagree. There are a lot of things we can do that aren't trampling all over her justice. Gathering intel, acquiring politically awkward blackmail, acquiring evidence of crimes so justice can be delivered, scouting, sabotaging enemies in war... This are all things our sneaky skillset is helpful for. They are not anti-justice in the same way that breaking the law and framing people so that they are unjustly punished is.
THAT BEING SAID. Do I think that confessing is the right idea? That's more tricky. Confessing makes life very difficult for everyone. It would likely have serious long term consequences for our relationship with Fu Xiang that could cause us a lot of trouble. Long term, minor crimes done in the Outer Sect aren't anything anyone will really care about later. They're only an issue right now. Confessing doesn't help anyone it is important to note. It is purely a manifestation of Ling Qi feeling guilty, and not wanting to lie to Cai at all. Telling the truth, however, doesn't help Cai, doesn't help Ling Qi, and doesn't help Fu Xiang. It's bad for everyone. Of course, one could readily label that an excuse to take the easy route out, and this would not be invalid.
Confessing gives us Ling Qi taking responsibility for her actions, and paying penance in order to cleanse her conscience. Then, perhaps, we can move on and strive to be better in the future (though with a lot of people pissed at us, and a lot of political trouble for Team Cai, and ... yeah).
This might just be taking the easy route out, but I would prefer Ling Qi to a) stay silent, and b) reciprocate by sharing why she wants to be a better person, and what she's done in the past that she doesn't want to do again. And to feel really guilty about this whole mess and endeavor to be a much better person in the future.
We have hinted at our ideals in our past conversations with her - our dislike of the behaviour of cultivators in the outer sect, and our support for her goals - but we haven't really opened up about why we support her to her. We've only really obliquely discussed our feelings about our past in that recent conversation with Meizhen. I would argue that this is the ideal time to open up about to Cai about why we want to be a better person, and why we've supported her against the arguments of Sun Liling and Chu Song. If this whole scene is about us establishing mutual trust and a more personal connection, then sharing our feelings here is, I would argue, what we should be doing.
@yrsillar if we don't confess here, will it result in the conversation just ending without us reciprocating to Cai at all? Because that doesn't really feel right.
- Location
- scrabbling
I'm still just as guilty of planning out the framing, and even of doing most of the steps involved. Unless you seriously want to argue that intent doesn't matter in criminal law...
Fair enough. But the silly comparison didn't really help the point you were trying to make.
Aaaand now I am off to read NN.
- Location
- Here
[X] Admit to the deception about the market, apologize.
Attempted or conspiracy to commit murder generally has less punishment than if you actually commit the murder especially if you confess before the act. It's still really bad but again in your analogy you are voluntarily confessing to the crime which does become a mitigating factor.