Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

[X] Remain silent, thank her sincerely for her trust.

Yeah, no. The arguments about friends not hiding things or reciprocating Cai's 'show of trust' is bullshit. Cai started this, she pried and spied into Ling Qi's personal life and background, even if I get why. Plus she asked for Ling Qi's loyalty, and as Ling Qi pointed out in this update Ling Qi doesn't do loyalty to those she knows literally nothing about. This frankly should be Cai reciprocating for her intrusion into Ling Qi's life, understandable though it may have been it was clearly something Ling Qi didn't want people knowing about.

And for all it was clearly difficult for Cai to talk about it isn't really that much of a secret. It's certainly less damaging than her letting out that Ling Qi is/was the prostitute daughter of a street thief would be to our face.

This is literally the kind of information that we need for Cai to hit foot in the door level on Ling Qi's loyalty. It is not some kind of final capstone of great friendship.

Besides which, there are different levels of friendship, Cai is in the 'bare aquaintance who might someday be a good friend camp'. Building a friendship does not entail splurging every secret you have on someone's face the instant they tell you something even a tiny bit personal.

This can and probably will have serious consequences. Remember what Ling Qi said would happen to her if she was caught 'Banned from the market for the rest of the year at absolute minimum' and with Cai punishing us and Xiang (and let's be real here, she will) we're gonna have a lotta trouble getting access through our friends. Especially with Su Ling, Suyin or Xiulan, for whom green drugs are a pretty obvious sign they're buying for us.

Nevermind what this would do to our relationship with Li Suyin, or Su Ling or hell, even Xiulan. Xiulan's a consumate noble, and won't exactly be happy to have one of her best friends outed as a theif, nevermind the damage to her face being associated with us will cause her. And the rest of our friends. Plus the face damage we've reflected onto Meizhen (and Cai) for trusting us

Oh and let's not forget Fu Xiang, not only will we have just thrown 200 RSS away, but we've now given him motivation to fuck us and pointed him in the direction of Yan Renshu. Because the only thing better than having a powerful green intrigue master after your ass is having two of them.

Furthermore let's say we get confined like Ji Rong? Well we can kiss any chance of placing in the tournament this year goodbye, which makes us utterly dependent on Cai kindly ignoring her principles and not withdrawing her offer. So good job of cutting off the sect route entirely.

Oh and we're actually a noble now. So this might not get shrugged off the way it would if we'd been caught while still a commoner.

And if this is a test of: would you lie to me? Screw Cai. We haven't given her our loyalty yet, and asking us to screw ourselves and all our current relationships, who we are loyal to, is a terrible test. She wants an intrigue master she has to deal with that sort of thing.

If she isn't aware and we join her we can do more to protect her from people like Fu Xiang from inside her circle without screwing her opinion of people permenantly and reveal it when we have a much stronger bond and have ensured we won't get instascrewed.

PS. Damn you Fu Xiang.
 
[X] Admit to the deception about the market, apologize.

Lets be clear this is probably going to be... Turbulent.

But I think it's worth it.

Especially if we then take the next logical step and ACCEPT THE CONSEQUENCES of the action. That kind of thing speaks Deeper to Cai than literally anything else.
 
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Lets be clear this is probably going to be... Turbulent.

But I think it's worth it.
Why? It's literally screwing ourselves, our relationships with our friends and probably our friends themselves over for essentially no reason. We aren't supermegaclose to Cai in the first place.

I would literally take '[] Pledge yourelf to Cai right here and now' over the current vote, and I want to go the sect route. It's quite possibly that bad.
 
[X] Admit to the deception about the market, apologize.

Still not a fan of the Cai route, particularly as she freely admits her own issues here. This doesn't mean that those issues don't exist, or won't impede our relationship, and the sect's benefits and actual companionship are still quite good for us.

This is the option to go either way though.
 
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Ugh.

I don't know what the right choice is at the moment.

I'm starting to come around with staying silent though. Because as a 'Left Hand', we're naturally going to be doing things that she doesn't want to know about. But... Well...

Ugh.

Her remarks can easily be construed as "I know you're responsible but I'm giving you a chance to own up to it in private and thus we can resolve this in a way that doesn't cause everyone involved to lose face", or being genuine ignorant. Problematic.
 
I am not sure what to choose here.
I like the Cai route, so i think we need to get used to lying

[X] Remain silent, thank her sincerely for her trust.

i may change if i see a good argument.
 
"And I will see that they are rewarded for that," Guangli applied agreeably. Ling Qi blinked as he tossed her a small metal canteen, she caught it of course, and raised an eyebrow in question. "Playing for so long is thirsty work," he said in reply to her unasked question. "My preferred mineral water encourages the quick recovery of ones qi as well. It is the least I can do."
I don't know if anyone else caught this, but under shipping goggles?

Gan Guangli just offered Ling Qi an indirect kiss, and she accepted. And she looked away when he grinned at her! To cover up her infatuated blush, of course~~

"They are, and spirits of that sort can become a long running plague on the regions they inhabit," he answered with a frown
Piecing it together with the fact that his father, a city guard, was crippled in the line of duty, was his father attacked by a spiritual-focused spirit? And that's why he asked Ling Qi to help him with his subordinates' spiritual defense.

In more immediate terms, Gan Guangli probably has excellent spiritual defenses, if my speculation is true. Not surprising, him being defensive-specced, but if Ling Qi faces him in the tournament, we'll have to rely on our Flute +1 auto more than expected.

The city of Xiangmen was the original stronghold of Xi clan, and as such, the whole of it built into and onto the last of the great Heavenly Pillarwoods.
Oooh, what happened to the others? Is this why the Horned Lord abandoned his descendants? Because they cut down all the other remnants of his favored trees in their greed?

It's one of the curse of ruling a province so fecund, I suppose, since that was repeated again with the Hui and the spirit stone mines of the Emerald Sea.

"I do not speak to denigrate my honored Mother. I am a monster as well. Mother made it so, she has shown me the foulness and rot that infests the province, and I will see it purged. I do not find the weaving she intends to be displeasing… I merely believe that I might improve it, in time. I believe that her inhumanity will bring ruin when she finally grows bored of playing with her dolls and casts them aside. I think this, despite knowing that I dance upon her strings, knowing that I think this way because she shaped me so."
Considering her personality, Cai Renxiang all but stated she'll eventually launch a coup against her mother, didn't she? Her interlude hinted at it, but now we're only waiting for explicit confirmation that Cai Renxiang wants to rebel against her mother.

To guess at the eventual plots of the two routes this new information impacts --
The Cai route has Ling Qi investigating corruption all over the province, directed against people Cai Renxiang knows to be corrupt but doesn't have the absolute evidence for direct charges. Ling Qi might also acquire a few friends and subordinates for a spy network of sorts over the course of the work, but CRX probably will take most of the burden of gathering popular support for overthrowing the duchess.

The Sect route has Ling Qi also investigating clans and organizations around the province, since Jiao's buried Imperial idealism possibly may combine teaching Ling Qi and trolling other nobles with cleaning up corruption. Once CRX launches her coup, the Sect's Head and Elders will probably have to act against her -- feudal obligations and all, even in the face of what probably is very awful behavior from Shenhua -- and Ling Qi will have to decide whether to act against the Sect in accordance to morality or help preserve an unjust system out of loyalty to the Sect.
 
Ugh I really hate the way this vote is structured. It's the sort of total Schmuckbait that SV is primed to go right for and then act suprised it blew it in their faces and also offers Cai supporters the chance to quietly sabotage every other route.

Ugh.

I don't know what the right choice is at the moment.

I'm starting to come around with staying silent though. Because as a 'Left Hand', we're naturally going to be doing things that she doesn't want to know about. But... Well...

Ugh.

Her remarks can easily be construed as "I know you're responsible but I'm giving you a chance to own up to it in private and thus we can resolve this in a way that doesn't cause everyone involved to lose face", or being genuine ignorant. Problematic.
If this is a 'giving us a chance to own up' its a really bad one. Because that means she both knows what we did and that Fu Xiang is responsible for putting us up to it but is counting on the loyalty to her we literally just said we don't have to get us to tell her despite the problems it will cause for us and the people we just said we're actually loyal to.

EDIT: The fact SV is probably going to do it makes it even worse.

If she actually straight out said anything I'd say tell her and explain, but otherwise we're better off staying silent and revealing things when we have the ability to mitigate consequences, like being able to properly sideline Fu Xiang without having handed him 200 RSS to go find the other intrigue master on the mountain. Even if Cai kept us and chased him off that could leave us facing down both Xiang and Renshu in a doubleteam.

Plus as others have said, would you really respect Cai if she didn't punish us here? Do you think she's been faking everything she said so far? And if she punishes us even slightly in proportion to what we should expect Ling Qi is basically screwed for the tournament and from getting into the inner sect.

[X] Admit to the deception about the market, apologize.

Still not a fan of the Cai route, particularly as she freely admits her own issues here. This doesn't mean that those issues don't exist, or won't impede our relationship, and the sect's benefits and actual companionship are still quite good for us.
As far as I can see it's not unlikely that your vote will close off the sect rout due to it preventing us from advancing far enough to place in the tournament.

I should take a break from this thread. This vote is making me angry and I'm worried that we're going to totally screw Ling Qi over because 'all friendship is equal' and a revealing a minor personal fact to someone after you've already had PI's investigate their entire life means they're going to spill their guts about literally everything you didn't already get.
 
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[X] Admit to the deception about the market, apologize

honestly, I'd prefer to vote against this as I'd prefer to just keep the secret and turn down Cai later, but since the general feel of the quest seems to be of tentative acceptance of the Cai route then I'm going to have to vote this way.
If we cannot expect Cai to treat us fairly, behaving as we though was best in persuit of her goals* then there's no way in hell that we can trust her to do the same when lives are on the line. We are aiming to be a spymistress, thief or assassin, any of these will put us in these situatons again and again. Doing things that hurt her as part of paying the price of doing greater things to help.

*she fights Lilling, we help her with this exceptionally well, this brings concequences down on our head, we deal with those consequeses and owe something to one of her allies for services above and beyond expected, we pay off her ally in his requested manner
 
The proper punishment would be go to jail/stasis for a month. That's what y'all are voting for. Any less would be very much against the ideals and principles of fairness and justice Cai has continually espoused. That's what I'm expecting from a confession.
Lady Cai is an idealist, but she is also a politician. Sticking us in stasis might be just, but it is very much politically undesirable; it puts major strain on her relationship with Meizhen, and risks alienating us entirely. Certainly, if CRX is inflexibly enough to do that, she doesn't deserve our loyalty. No, I expect her to be true to her ideals, but smarter about it. I would not be surprised if she effectively fined us for the offense, perhaps heavily.
 
So do people want to be a spymaster or do they want to play a compulsively honest character?

Personally, I think that once you decide to commit a giant fucking crime you are also committed to try to get away with it. Especially when you have a partner in crime who will be screwed over if you decide to get yourself caught because you felt a moment of guilt.

ETA: Also, the idea that FAIRNESS demands that Cai let Ling Qi get away scot free with her crime is just the epitome of protagonist centered morality. Ling Qi, for her personal benefit, harmed people way more than Ji Rong ever did.
 
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Perfect Cai route resolution would probably be a harsh, but not ruinous punishement, which would be fine by me and solidify me on Cai's route. She does talk about her mother and how she'd like to be different; well, moment of truth, here.

Cai deciding to just let it slide means that she is, at very least, not all that sold on her own principles and if I were to be harsh about it, that she does not deserve loyalty of Gan and most of people surrounding her. By all signs, it is not very realistic expectation.

But If she decides that no, after all this investment it is time to not merely punish but actually totally ruin a talanted potential underling she invested a whole lot of time and effort into, then Cai route was never nothing more than pure fucking poison and I will not regret paying this much to have it openly thrown it in my face.

I would regret it if it affects sect or Gu route, which is something entirely likely, but.../shrug
 
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So do people want to be a spymaster or do they want to play a compulsively honest character?
Ling Qi isn't a spymistress? She's a thief and saboteur, not a spy. She doesn't do that kind of deceit, networking, or favor trading; she wants to be able to trust people. In the Army, she'd be like a forward scout, not a CIA-equivalent infiltrator.
 
...

...ahahaha how about that weather aren't spirit beasts just the darndest well would you look at the time- NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE!

How far away is loverboy's plot of land, exactly? I think a life on the frontier where we can Nope away from politics together sounds just lovely. On review, we don't really need all that time for consideration either, let's just elope and get started settling that far, far away land. Like right now.

You think it's a little bird with a broken wing wanting you to take care of it, but it's a spider. Made of razor glass and poison and politics and nope.

...oh goddamn it. If only she was a guy, then we wouldn't care. As is this pretty much cements things. Bleh. Why couldn't she stay stoic? Reaching out like this...

Hell, let's take her and all our friends and Nope out of this together. Xin might help!
 
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Ling Qi isn't a spymistress? She's a thief and saboteur, not a spy. She doesn't do that kind of deceit, networking, or favor trading; she wants to be able to trust people. In the Army, she'd be like a forward scout, not a CIA-equivalent infiltrator.
Spy is that kind of specialist Cai is actually looking for, tho. She was pretty straightforward about needing a not-entirely-legal-work specialist in court in future.
 
First, GAN FLEXINGTON SMOOTH OPERATOR. I'm glad he is actually capable of being a chill guy and not taking his persona super serious and able to joke about it. Gan the Man.

Second. Oh man. Ling really is a greedy girl, demanding so much from people in manner that is as subtle as an exploding bomb.

I think Ling Qi needs to stare CRX down and explain what she did to Meizhen. That she spent years scrabbling in the gutter as a pathetic animal, only concerned with survival. That her whole journey here in the Sect was to gain the strength to be able to make choices and build a home for her and her loved ones. That almost every person who she has trusted that was in a position of power over her has used that power to betray that trust (yeah, Mom was a misunderstanding but that's what started all this mess). So when she says:

[X] Admit to the deception about the market, apologize.

She hopes CRX might have a glimmer as to why Ling Qi does what she does.

We'll still probably get a face full of Justice Fist but we tried!
 
Lady Cai is an idealist, but she is also a politician. Sticking us in stasis might be just, but it is very much politically undesirable; it puts major strain on her relationship with Meizhen, and risks alienating us entirely. Certainly, if CRX is inflexibly enough to do that, she doesn't deserve our loyalty. No, I expect her to be true to her ideals, but smarter about it. I would not be surprised if she effectively fined us for the offense, perhaps heavily.
That's laughable. Ling Qi specifically ruined two peoples chances at making it into the Inner Sect which would have an incredible impact on their entire lifes, costing them months of work such that they're unlikely to be able to recreate their works in time. And the punishment for that, and notably justice tends to have the victim be compensated, you believe would be a fine?

Honestly this vote is just schmuck bait either way. We tell Cai and the voters are going to be split on the response; either she's a bitch (not really, but actions taken against the protagonist tend to be viewed this way) when she punishes us appropriately or we effectively have to be let of due to the sheer damage we caused and political costs to punishing us; which means there would be those who believe Cai is a hypocrit. And rightfully so.
 
So do people want to be a spymaster or do they want to play a compulsively honest character?

Personally, I think that once you decide to commit a giant fucking crime you are also committed to try to get away with it. Especially when you have a partner in crime who will be screwed over if you decide to get yourself caught because you felt a moment of guilt.

ETA: Also, the idea that FAIRNESS demands that Cai let Ling Qi get away scot free with her crime is just the epitome of protagonist centered morality. Ling Qi, for her personal benefit, harmed people way more than Ji Rong ever did.
Right now, we feel guilty about the heist, and feel guilty about demanding trust from CRX while lying to her face. This is a chance to atone for that guilt.

I guess the question is that the character arc we want for Ling Qi? Do we want to atone for our guilt? Or do we want to learn not to feel guilty about doing the sorts of things our talents equip us to do, even if it hurts people, and even if it means lying to our friends?
 
[X] Admit

It's a neat test of CRX, with minimal risks on our part. Hell, we can even get Green level drugs from Meizhan if we need to do being blocked from the market isn't a huge problem.

There are very few negatives to us of this action. No matter how she reacts we'll learn something about her from it.
 
[X] Admit to the deception about the market, apologize.
Might as well see what yrsillar has planned.

I would have wanted to tell her after we swore to her, because then our loyalty would have been to her and we would owe her the truth more than we owed Fu Xiang silence. I would have kept quiet if we didn't swear to her. But if it's going to happen now, oh well.
 
Bluntly, everyone who votes for 'confess' gives up *any* right to complain about inefficient actions io cultivation choices ever again.

Cai Renxiang *must* punish an act that disturbs her peace. And that probably means forfeiture of resources *and* imprisonment.

So no white room, possible loss of 20 majors and a similar number of minors.

Plus Fu is not a pal, Meizhen and Cai possibly fall out (giving Sun Liking an advantage)...
 
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