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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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veekie said:
-Not meddling further with Van Hal's religious beliefs since we're not really suited to any of the other angles than conversion to Ranald, and well...thread decided thats not good.
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The only other productive way I can think of (as someone else mentioned) is finding just the right (local) Sigmarite Priest to talk van Hal through it. Or finding someone to find the right priest.
 
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Money makes the world go round. If we have funds, all other option could possibly be reopened in the future, and it give flexibily on how we want to react to future mischief or if we need to redirect funds to other threats.
 
Alliterate said:
@BoneyM some plans are making assumptions, so I'd like to check if we are reading this right?
[ ] The documents of the Stirlandian League will allow you to rebuild the north-south trade network with speed and efficiency.
-more likely to increase Stirland's per-turn income (faster)?

[ ] The assets of the Stirlandian League will be a huge boost to Stirland's coffers.
-more likely to result in a larger one-time windfall, but not boost the regular income?
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Correct in both regards.

Guile said:
Oh, and... what do we do with Discretionary Income left over, if we're not embezzling? Do we just roll it over to next turn?
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Yes, you've accumulated quite a bit so far, though purchasing the townhouse consumed some of it.
 
Alliterate said:
The only other productive way I can think of (as someone else mentioned) is finding just the right (local) Sigmarite Priest to talk van Hal through it. Or finding someone to find the right priest.
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Hmm. Or we could talk to him about Ranald. Not with a view to conversion, but about our personal relationship with him. We don't need a hierarchy of priests with a Theogonist at the top telling us how to worship.

...

So instead of a Communist Witch Hunter Elector Count, we'll have a Lutheran one.
 
Mr.rodent said:
Yeah let's ...not expand the thieves guild.

If this was a major place of wealth such as nuln or one of the other provinces, then sure, why not. It gives us more Intel and a spy network.

But our province is fairly poor, and making the criminals more organized is bad. Seriously you don't want criminals being organized, it's how crime lords control and have monopolies on territories and governments.

Because while some may be in ranalds favour and do the whole Robin hood thing, the vast majority are criminals out of necessity and aren't averse to violent crime.

Or worse, they want democracy and to end the nobility. Which is a big no no
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veekie said:
The point being that crime exists, and organized crime exists because it outcompetes rival forms of crimes. Better to have the crime organized under US than by literally anyone else. We don't have the level of law enforcement needed to actually go crime free. So we take it under our control, limit the damage, and put the funds into our black ops budget


And its the ONE network we know is vampire free.
In the wake of the League's destruction, smuggling is going to skyrocket as the former league channels reroute to taxed routes, driving a crime wave. We're better off riding it, because SOMEONE will.
And well, we really want to know what people smuggle.
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I support organizing the crime now, partially because it was mentioned that organized crime tends to push out the gribbles, plots and cults that otherwise occupy the underworld. Partially beacuse Veekie has a point.

Also Mr.rodent, Ranald has multiple aspects, each with different scripture, most people don't worship all of them.

Also a tanget on the subject of democracy and government in Warhammer:
I also disapprove of most forms of democracy in this context, because populism is insufficiently stable to be ideal in Warhammer. I'm not actually a fan of rule by blood either, but trying to rule by choosing the most competent becomes obstructively bueareucratic or politically corrupt within a few generations(not to say that rule by blood isn't pollitically corrupt) without some really clear metric of who's the best.
I would actually be more favorably incined towards a socialist revolution in this setting than a democratic one, as a means to address class inequality.
Or some kind of sane compromise between noble families, elected officials, and military officers chosen for competence.
Or some kind of insane system where leaders are chosen based on vetted individuals winning duels or small-unit combat's to the death, and advisors are chosen for competence and experience in their area of expertise.
 
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Alliterate said:
The only other productive way I can think of (as someone else mentioned) is finding just the right (local) Sigmarite Priest to talk van Hal through it. Or finding someone to find the right priest.
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We don't really know any priests though. Just Kasmir and the Ranaldites.

Hence a hands off approach, because Sigmarite(or Ulrican) priests generally speaking do not like:
-Wizards
-Spies

Also for those considering Morr, keep in mind that Morr is not a particularly active god. His only point of alignment with Van Hal is the hatred of undead.
Shallya is out for anyone wielding a Runefang.

So currently my entire plan on the religious matters is to do our job very effectively, and be a trusted friend, so we don't stress him further.
LoganBert34 said:
Money makes the world go round. If we have funds, all other option could possibly be reopened in the future, and it give flexibily on how we want to react to future mischief or if we need to redirect funds to other threats.
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Keep in mind that where long term funds are concerned the best is really taking the documents to restart the route immediately(with taxes).

Asset seizure is less lucrative than it seems(though I dare say there's probably a couple years worth of budget in there), since these guys are merchants. Most of their wealth goes into getting more wealth, so you have non-liquidatable funds.

Their documents on the other hand should contain things like:
-Regional demand maps - Critical to any trade route, as this info is held closely in secret by most merchants.

-Regional contacts and routes - Consider the Haunted Hills. WHF is not a happy place to be a trader in, and where these point out are the safe and reliable routes. We want to know where the roads often wash out after seasonal storms, where theres relatively few gribblies, etc.

-Asset listings. Wagons, boats, stables, warehouses. These things exist and are hard to seize and replace, but are integral to functioning. *Channels RL job in logistics support* Wilhelmina would BADLY want these before they scuttle the records and get repossessed by whoever got away before we got them. Paper after all, burns.

Oh and a little bonus for us. Their documents and ledgers would also show us where their wealth is flowing toward. Not as good as interrogations of key persons, but theres a pattern to nail the backer down in there.
 
DarkLight140 said:
Hm.

Ultimately, once the Stirlandian League is destroyed, I'm not sure if I care about catching the old spymaster or his cronies. We've got a lot of stuff to do and while it's tempting to think "but surely he'll hit back", I suspect that's just paranoia. The idea behind hitting back is being able to regain one's old position by destroying the enemy, which is just never going to happen as long as Van Hal is in charge and with the entire military and legal might of Stirland on his side. I think it's much more likely that they'll take their money and run. Letting them get away sucks, but we need a healthy and prosperous Stirland more than we need to take vengeance on those who have damaged it.

From that premise, either assets or documents are the highest priority, depending upon whether we want a larger one-time boost or a larger +income/turn sooner. I am inclined to say that we want income/turn; if we give Van Hal a huge influx of cash he'll immediately spend it all and the economy will have a much harder time recovering to replace those funds, but making the economy return to a healthy state faster which means not only does he make more money, he'll also become more popular as Elector Count because everyone on all levels will start benefiting from the new state of things and know that he was responsible.

Aside from that, the mirror catch box+Ranald is basically mandatory, but nothing else is on fire so I'm inclined to throw ourselves wholeheartedly into training and socialization. We're already working with Wilhelmina professionally this turn, so let's swing a training action with Gustav- apparently our exciting tales of magical infiltrators impressed the rest of the council so we're in a good position to capitalize on that by trying to make a friendship out of training activities. Better to get in on the ground floor with him if possible than to go after Schultz or Kasmir and play catch-up.

We could investigate Julia's background but I'm inclined to say that we got a solid interview roll, her background is partially confirmed already via Anton and generally being a high-profile person. Instead, we should throw our free social action at her to learn more while also building a closer rapport with her- because we want our lieutenant to like and trust us personally. A snooping action would be more likely to catch any already existing flaws in her (chaos cultist, etc.) but much less likely to build personal loyalty, and building personal loyalty to the head spy amongst the spies is important. We want Julia's opinion of us to be 10/10 (even if it's unlikely to ever quite reach there).

Aside from that, we haven't learned a single new shadow spell yet and Take No Heed should be both relatively easy to learn and invaluable when running around doing shady things. It's important to change this "not studying magic" trend and while I'm all in favor of studying enchantment or spellbinding, learning actual spells takes priority over that in my mind- for now, at least.

Our discretionary income is feeling squeezed while our personal income is not, so we can cut down on the embezzlement for the moment and pay our student loans out of our actual pay.


[x] Plan Documents and Training
-[x] The documents of the Stirlandian League will allow you to rebuild the north-south trade network with speed and efficiency.
-[x] Practice, Practice, Practice: Having been thrown into the deep end of imperial politics, it would probably be a good idea to brush up on your skills and internalize the lessons you've learned (choose which trait; can be taken multiple times; will be more effective if you've used the trait a lot lately).
--[x] Learning (Overwork)
--[x] Intrigue
-[x] Combat Training: You're virtually surrounded by armed warriors of various sorts. See if you can convince one to teach you (choose who).
--[x] Gustav is well-known for his ability with cavalry, and as it happens you're very good with the Shadowsteed spell. See if he can teach you a few things about mounted combat to give you experience and training that matches your magical skills.
-[x] Personally construct the Mirrorcatch Box. Though being around that many mirrors for that long makes you antsy, there's nobody else you can trust with the task. (expense paid for by Van Hal)
--[x] Ranald's Blessing
-[x] As a Journeywoman, the path to Magister is marked by mastering more than the two shadow spells you already know. Send to the Grey Order for the basics and work on figuring out one of the others.
--[x] Take No Heed
-[x] Free Time: Now well-established in Wurtbad, you can spend some time in your scant off hours getting to know someone better. Pick one character. (no action required)
--[x] Julia
-[x] Change embezzlement
--[x] Change to no embezzlement.
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[x] Plan Documents and Training

Hmm. I think I would rather have Dispel than Take No Heed in general, what with it being a fundamental skill of all wizards. Then again, we aren't a battle wizard and the two enemy magic users we've crossed paths with have very much been the spooky-action-at-a-distance types. Hopefully we can find the actions to finish off the Lesser and Petty Magics lists before we need to confront them more directly (Dispel and Silence would be great, there).
 
[X] Plan Finding Faith

-[X] The leaders of the Stirlandian League need to be rounded up so you can question them regarding their former patron.
-[X] Practice, Practice, Practice: Having been thrown into the deep end of imperial politics, it would probably be a good idea to brush up on your skills and internalize the lessons you've learned (choose which trait; can be taken multiple times; will be more effective if you've used the trait a lot lately).
--[X] Intrigue
-[X] Practice, Practice, Practice: Having been thrown into the deep end of imperial politics, it would probably be a good idea to brush up on your skills and internalize the lessons you've learned (choose which trait; can be taken multiple times; will be more effective if you've used the trait a lot lately).
--[X] Learning
-[X] Personally construct the Mirrorcatch Box. Though being around that many mirrors for that long makes you antsy, there's nobody else you can trust with the task. (expense paid for by Van Hal) (NEW)
-[X] A Crisis of Faith: Van Hal's ongoing alienation with the Sigmarite faith is worrying. Maybe there's something you can do? (write in)
--[X] Use our connections to seek out a local holy man of Sigmar that fits Van Hal's personality, and set up a meeting between the two. Someone who has also seen his share of horrors of the Night and could do no more than feel impotent rage at the crumbling Sigmarite influence under the previous Elector Count, but whose faith and principles are still strong as steel.
--[X] Ranald's Blessing
-[X] Free Time:
--[X] Get to know Julia better.

This is my best try for dealing with the crisis of faith situation. If he can't rely on anyone around him for this crisis, then we have to at least try and find someone who he can rely on.

Also has going after the League leadership, as I think they'll be the best source of information in any case, and we can also persecute them once we've rounded them up. In addition, with us suggesting to Van Hal that our predecessor is also part of the ledger theft conspiracy, we kind of have to follow through on our view and prioritise going after him, and the League is probably the best lead we've got at the moment.
 
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veekie said:
Well, our boss has a nice hobby at least.
*Marks down on list of gifts: Tinkertech*

Option analysis:
[ ] The leaders of the Stirlandian League need to be rounded up so you can question them regarding their former patron.

THis would be the Backtrace option. Useful for intel, but I'm pretty sure we've given them enough lead time that their patron would have cutouts.

[ ] Rounding up as many of the individual members of the League as possible will make it clear that nobody can engage in this sort of behaviour without facing eventual consequences.

Making an example. Doesn't really work.

[ ] Though Van Hal didn't mention it, you could work with authorities in Talabecland and Averland to help them do their own purges parallel to yours. They'd likely be grateful, but it will come at the expense of your activities in Stirland.

Diplomatic route. However, we don't actually know what THEY think of the whole thing so it's prone to backfire.

[ ] The documents of the Stirlandian League will allow you to rebuild the north-south trade network with speed and efficiency.

Stewardship route. This is the link with Wilhemina, and most likely the most lucrative one long term.

[ ] The assets of the Stirlandian League will be a huge boost to Stirland's coffers.

Their material funds. This is a one shot boost in resources, but as per the update we are fine for immediate expenses. What we need is cash flow, not treasury.

[X] Plan Bless The Snake
-[X] The documents of the Stirlandian League will allow you to rebuild the north-south trade network with speed and efficiency.
-[X] Practice, Practice, Practice: Having been thrown into the deep end of imperial politics, it would probably be a good idea to brush up on your skills and internalize the lessons you've learned (choose which trait; can be taken multiple times; will be more effective if you've used the trait a lot lately).
--[X] Intrigue
-[X] Practice, Practice, Practice: Having been thrown into the deep end of imperial politics, it would probably be a good idea to brush up on your skills and internalize the lessons you've learned (choose which trait; can be taken multiple times; will be more effective if you've used the trait a lot lately).
--[X] Learning
-[X] You've got a handle on most of the Petty and Minor magics, but some still elude you. Dispel in particular could have come in very handy recently. Time to round up the rest of them. (NEW)
-[X] Personally construct the Mirrorcatch Box. Though being around that many mirrors for that long makes you antsy, there's nobody else you can trust with the task. (expense paid for by Van Hal) (NEW)
--[X] Ranald's Blessing


6/6-8

Main difference points from the other plans:
-The League doesn't need the Blessing. We have the ledgers, we have Wilhelmina double teaming.

-As per our economy:

We need income, we have enough budget for Right Now, but we need cashflow to pay for everything. Hence, focus on their documents so we don't leave Wilhemina needing to build a nation-spanning trade route from scratch

-We DO want to bless the mirrorcatch box. Getting rid of the snake is going to be risky due to working with mirrors. We want Ranald looking out for us so the snake doesn't bite us during construction.

-Not meddling further with Van Hal's religious beliefs since we're not really suited to any of the other angles than conversion to Ranald, and well...thread decided thats not good.

-Also given our magical ability capping out the Petty Magics, the next step will require higher Learning. We also need better Intrigue to keep up with our job.
--Fortunately we've done a shitload of Learning and Intrigue rolls last turn. We have a good bonus to make it work.
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Who are you free-action friending? I think Julia is a good idea.

And decided against the Thieves guild?

Re. van Hal's faith, maybe we could talk to him about Ranald. Not with a view to conversion, but about our personal relationship with him. We don't need a hierarchy of priests. OTOH, that might just disillusion him more about the temporal Cult of Sigmar.
 
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thatguy said:
I support organizing the crime now, partially because it was mentioned that organized crime tends to push out the gribbles, plots and cults that otherwise occupy the underworld. Partially beacuse Veekie has a point.

Also Mr.rodent, Ranald has multiple aspects, each with different scripture, most people don't worship all of them.

Also a tanget on the subject of democracy and government in Warhammer:
I also disapprove of most forms of democracy in this context, because populism is insufficiently stable to be ideal in Warhammer. I'm not actually a fan of rule by blood either, but trying to rule by choosing the most competent becomes obstructively bueareucratic or politically corrupt within a few generations without some really clear metric of who's the best.
I would actually be more favorably incined towards a socialist revolution in this setting than a democratic one, as a means to address class inequality.
Or some kind of sane compromise between noble families, elected officials, and military officers chosen for competence.
Or some kind of insane system where leaders are chosen based on vetted individuals winning duels or small-unit combat's to the death, and advisors are chosen for competence and experience in their area of expertise.
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Yeah, just that Ranald doesn't actually BACK Democracy(so much as Democratic agitators often share goals with Ranald the Protector).

That's because well, the problem of nobles not upholding their part of the social contract demands that the nobles be replaced, which then naturally leads to democracy, whose leading argument after all, is that when you can choose to remove your leaders they won't abuse you.

As such, it depends a lot on the area. In Stirland where theres a permanent bloodsucker threat? Ranald is fine(ish). The nobles are either protecting the people(and thus fulfilling his domain), or they are vampires/vampire minions and thus should be gotten rid of anyway.
In other provinces, not so much.

That said I want the Blessing on the Mirror Box, so I'm pushing the Thieves expansion back a turn. Really want blessing on it to go well. We don't want to accidentally boost crime, so much as take it over!
 
Alliterate said:
Who are you free-action friending? I think Julia is a good idea.

And decided against the Thieves guild?

Re. Van Hal's faith, maybe we could talk to him about Ranald. Not with a view to conversion, but about our personal relationship with him. We don't need a hierarchy of priests. OTOH, that might just disillusion him more about the temporal Cult of Sigmar.
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Ah, missed the friend thing, but Julia is a good idea. Adding that.

Thieves guild on the backburner because I want the Blessing on it

As for Van Hal's faith...thread already decided against telling him about it. Not very interested in fighting an endless war over that. Just trust him to work through it on his own, and keep a close eye out.
 
Ranald the Protector's connection to democracy is a matter of history, rather than any true religious link to the concept. His strongest and most public backers are in the pseudo-democracy of Marienburg, and democratic rabble-rousers usually find common cause with Robin Hood Ranaldian types in the criminal underworld. You could easily connect him instead with a feudal system with a stronger tradition of noblesse oblige, or with any other political system where the protection and freedom of the common folk is enshrined in law or tradition.
 
Added the free time Julia to my plan as well, makes sense as she's our first lieutenant and potential replacement.
 
Democracy in warhammer seems kind of dangerous since people that vote could be brought in to a chaos cults agenda or party without even knowing leading to bad things future on
 
>People debating over how to solve a crisis of faith
>not taking notes from CKII proper and recommending your lord seals himself away to live off bread and water for weeks on end in order to study the holy texts and consult his conscience

It's like you people have never heard of asceticism and its benefits for the soul before.

On that note, I'm gonna scroll around the plans and edit one in here.

*Edit* I like this one

[X] Plan Bless The Snake
 
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Atam the Ork said:
Democracy in warhammer seems kind of dangerous since people that vote could be brought in to a chaos cults agenda or party without even knowing leading to bad things future on
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Same can be said for most systems. Though at least feudal systems are easier to monitor the weak points on.

But its unrelated to us, since Ranald doesn't really care what government system you use along long as it takes care of the common man.
 
Alliterate said:
Hmm. Or we could talk to him about Ranald. Not with a view to conversion, but about our personal relationship with him. We don't need a hierarchy of priests with a Theogonist at the top telling us how to worship.

...

So instead of a Communist Witch Hunter Elector Count, we'll have a Lutheran one.
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Lutheran? Admittedly "Elector Count declares his support for splinter cult of the Church of Sigmar that thinks the Grand Theogonist is an asshole" isn't exactly "Elector Count falls to chaos" in terms of severity for an Imperial crisis, but it's still pretty bad.


 
Alliterate said:
Shyishkebabs- are they? Do we really know that? When we specified that box, Mathilde/we were guessing. I don't recall anything saying we'd cut them off from the Winds completely. So... absorption, mixing, Dhar. Still a risk?

Like, do we in effect have a Waystone Box sitting in Eagle Castle? @BoneyM

In some ways, the safest thing to do would be put them back in the pure Shyish-barrow till we get round to them. Something to do with our Greatsword squad. :)
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@BoneyM I don't think I missed a reply- what do we know/Mathilde think about this?

What are her chances of spotting Dhar forming just by taking a look with Witch sight?
 
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