It's more likely that we will have a liquid tiberium refinery in most BZs, just to keep the transport lines short.
...Oh. You assumed I meant one and only one facility in the entire world. As opposed to just an abstract "we found a liquid tiberium deposit, there are no others within a fifty mile radius, do we really want to build a new processing rig or will we transport it to the plant 200 miles away from here" thing.
 
Most liquid tiberium we run into is, as far as I know, in Red Zone harvesting operations. While with Vein Mines that is certainly an option, there is a reason we do not have RZ tiberium processing projects.

I suspect that reason is the cost of keeping RZ tiberium processing running without exploding.

It's more likely that we will have a liquid tiberium refinery in most BZs, just to keep the transport lines short.

There's implications that the result is notably more immediately useful and thus would produce a relatively high amount of R for the amount of liquid tiberium shoved in, but yes, I agree that the core benefit of this development is having a way to get rid of liquid tiberium that isn't as likely to result in massive craters and losing entire continents to Red Zones.

We'll still need a safe way to tap and drain liquid tiberium sources. Although strictly speaking we should have those already. The mountain that exploded was just unlucky in part because nobody had noticed the impending liquid tiberium deposit about to be broken into.

Keep in mind that the tech does not mention liquid tiberium production. Processing, yes, production, no.
The tech doesn't mention liquid tiberium production because we already have that technology? We use it to fill our liquid-tiberium power-booster capsules, but we also have had this technology since the 2030s. Liquid-tiberium production is not something we need fancy xenotech for, because we're already doing it. The notion that spent Liquid-T capsules are being piled up somewhere as their unstable slurry slowly degrades and we can do absolutely nothing to dispose of it is pretty hair-raising, but it's also absolutely unsupported.
 
...Oh. You assumed I meant one and only one facility in the entire world. As opposed to just an abstract "we found a liquid tiberium deposit, there are no others within a fifty mile radius, do we really want to build a new processing rig or will we transport it to the plant 200 miles away from here" thing.

Points at the Saar, Chicago and Medina complexes.

Well, it seemed reasonable that could've happened. We've definitely had 'massive tiberium processing facilities' projects before. They house about half our tiberium processing capacity.

The tech doesn't mention liquid tiberium production because we already have that technology? We use it to fill our liquid-tiberium power-booster capsules, but we also have had this technology since the 2030s. Liquid-tiberium production is not something we need fancy xenotech for, because we're already doing it. The notion that spent Liquid-T capsules are being piled up somewhere as their unstable slurry slowly degrades and we can do absolutely nothing to dispose of it is pretty hair-raising, but it's also absolutely unsupported.

AFAIK liquid tiberium is dumped into tiberium patches for crystallizing of the liquid tiberium so it can be harvested and shoved into the standard refining system.
 
And you want to use that as a justification for doing liquid tiberium refining in a Red Zone.
I don't recall saying anything of the sort.
I was refuting your statement that we don't refine in red zones due to "the cost of keeping RZ tiberium processing running without exploding".
If a cut down refinery can be strapped to the back of a MARV and operated in a RZ, this is clearly not the case.

You also don't appear to understand why that refinery has shit efficiencies and lots of nasty toxic waste. That is because it is the APK process, which is optimised for STU production, and Nod not caring about dumping toxic waste on Tib fields.
That is also not a valid argument against refining in a Red Zone.

We have two situations:
BZ vein mines finding pockets of liquid tib:
These seem to be quite widely spread, so trying to move the volatile material to a central processing facility is an unnecessary risk, especially as this would be through a BZ.
For this one, I'm thinking a portable refinery that sets up on the surface, and pumps up small amounts at a time for processing. If the pocket is ~1km down, then it should be fairly easy to keep the processing amounts small enough that an explosion in the refinery can't reach the pocket.

Surface deposits of liquid tib found in RZ operations:
Not sure what we are doing with what we are finding at the moment. Possibly just leaving most of it in place? How does that work when we convert the zone to blue??
Deposits likely too small to make in-situ refining worth doing, so transporting these back to the local hub or harvester base for refining is a better option. (Something off to the side of the base, of course.)
Sure we could transport into a blue zone to a central facility for refining. But why???
 
I don't recall saying anything of the sort.
I was refuting your statement that we don't refine in red zones due to "the cost of keeping RZ tiberium processing running without exploding".
If a cut down refinery can be strapped to the back of a MARV and operated in a RZ, this is clearly not the case.

You also don't appear to understand why that refinery has shit efficiencies and lots of nasty toxic waste. That is because it is the APK process, which is optimised for STU production, and Nod not caring about dumping toxic waste on Tib fields.
That is also not a valid argument against refining in a Red Zone.

We have two situations:
BZ vein mines finding pockets of liquid tib:
These seem to be quite widely spread, so trying to move the volatile material to a central processing facility is an unnecessary risk, especially as this would be through a BZ.
For this one, I'm thinking a portable refinery that sets up on the surface, and pumps up small amounts at a time for processing. If the pocket is ~1km down, then it should be fairly easy to keep the processing amounts small enough that an explosion in the refinery can't reach the pocket.

Surface deposits of liquid tib found in RZ operations:
Not sure what we are doing with what we are finding at the moment. Possibly just leaving most of it in place? How does that work when we convert the zone to blue??
Deposits likely too small to make in-situ refining worth doing, so transporting these back to the local hub or harvester base for refining is a better option. (Something off to the side of the base, of course.)
Sure we could transport into a blue zone to a central facility for refining. But why???

Apologies, wrong punctuation, it was intended as a question, not a statement.

Yes, APK is optimized for STU production at the cost of other traits. However, the stripped down APK the refinery model MARVs operating in the Red Zones may get is noted to be not as efficient as a full and proper APK setup and comes with more complications. It also, notably, does not handle noteworthy quantities of liquid tiberium in its process.

My worry with establishing Red Zone liquid tiberium refining is that we probably will end up with fairly large supplies of liquid tiberium in a Red Zone, exposed to ion storms and Nod attacks if we do that. I'd much rather run large numbers of small batches of liquid tiberium out of the Red Zones and into secured if isolated Blue Zone areas where GDI can leverage its ability to build large refineries to process liquid tiberium with the most minimal chance of explosions and toxic waste products possible. Even if it means a net negative in resources produced.
 
Don't think that it's going to be possible to run them near any Red zone right now especially with the vein mine explosion having everyone scared.
 
Apologies, wrong punctuation, it was intended as a question, not a statement.
Ugh. I do that all the time. XD
Sometimes I'm missing half the word as well, which is really confusing when I've dropped off the "n't" from "does" or similar. -_-

My worry with establishing Red Zone liquid tiberium refining is that we probably will end up with fairly large supplies of liquid tiberium in a Red Zone, exposed to ion storms and Nod attacks if we do that. I'd much rather run large numbers of small batches of liquid tiberium out of the Red Zones and into secured if isolated Blue Zone areas where GDI can leverage its ability to build large refineries to process liquid tiberium with the most minimal chance of explosions and toxic waste products possible. Even if it means a net negative in resources produced.
The thing is: The liquid tib is already there. Red Zone are full of liquid tib.
Building a refinery inside a RZ doesn't increase the amount there, but it does give us a way to dispose of it.
Not stockpiling dangerously high amounts of it at the refinery should be easy to do, as it involves not picking the stuff up.
The alternative of transporting large amounts of this stuff into Blue Zones is not going to be popular, and it makes the situation less safe. A liquid tib explosion in a RZ is far less of a problem than the same happening in a BZ.
We also have Ion Collector technology, so building an ion storm safe(r) zone for the refinery is possible.
 
I don't recall saying anything of the sort.
I was refuting your statement that we don't refine in red zones due to "the cost of keeping RZ tiberium processing running without exploding".
If a cut down refinery can be strapped to the back of a MARV and operated in a RZ, this is clearly not the case.

You also don't appear to understand why that refinery has shit efficiencies and lots of nasty toxic waste. That is because it is the APK process, which is optimised for STU production, and Nod not caring about dumping toxic waste on Tib fields.
That is also not a valid argument against refining in a Red Zone.
You're making some unjustified assumptions here.

I don't think we can assume that our MARV-mobile refineries are inefficient and produce waste purely because they optionally choose to use the APK process. Consider that GDI had no idea how to build a MARV-sized refinery until now, despite having its own refinery processes, both the Tib War III version and the Hewlett-Granger process. If GDI knew how to downsize those processes into something that would fit on a MARV, they might not have chosen to do so, but they'd at least have mentioned it and considered it. No, I think that MARV-scale mobile refining may be simply impossible using most known processes, at least with our current technology. After all, even the Visitors seem to make use of actual buildings for their refineries, rather than integrating them into mobile units, and even as we reverse-engineer Visitor tech, we're building platforms that are much cruder and bulkier than their Visitor counterparts.

And by extension, the liquid tiberium refining process in particular may or may not be something that could be made portable. It could be a unit the size of a pack of cards, or it could be a unit the size of a skyscraper. We do not, and cannot, know until the technology is fully developed.

The assumption that liquid tiberium refining capability can be made reasonably portable isn't something we can count on.

So you're proposing that it's an "unnecessary risk" to move liquid tiberium any great distance to the processing center. But on the contrary, it may be entirely necessary to do so, since even GDI can't afford to build, say, an entire major refinery complex just to process each individual tiny sample of liquid tiberium wherever it is found.
 
And by extension, the liquid tiberium refining process in particular may or may not be something that could be made portable. It could be a unit the size of a pack of cards, or it could be a unit the size of a skyscraper. We do not, and cannot, know until the technology is fully developed.

The assumption that liquid tiberium refining capability can be made reasonably portable isn't something we can count on.

So you're proposing that it's an "unnecessary risk" to move liquid tiberium any great distance to the processing center. But on the contrary, it may be entirely necessary to do so, since even GDI can't afford to build, say, an entire major refinery complex just to process each individual tiny sample of liquid tiberium wherever it is found.
Is there any point to this crap?

Why can I not make optimist assumptions about what might be possible?
Does this not happen all the time with orbital and portal projects?

What does it matter if it turns out not to be possible straight away? Have I locked in any spending with my speculation?

Are you just trolling?
 
Is there any point to this crap?

Why can I not make optimist assumptions about what might be possible?
Does this not happen all the time with orbital and portal projects?

What does it matter if it turns out not to be possible straight away? Have I locked in any spending with my speculation?

Are you just trolling?
Because you're telling other people "no, A is a bad idea, B is better" based on sheer speculation.

I don't mind someone saying "wouldn't it be great if the liquid tiberium processing unit was the size of a pack of cards and we could just move them around to where the liquid T is?" Yes, that would be great.

But you opened with "yeah, we're totally going to do this, get out of the silo mentality" while conveying a lot of certainty.

I'm not trolling. I genuinely do have issues with people who talk about their own opinions and speculations about what may happen in the game, as if those speculations were established fact.
 
heres an idea for latter on in the quest that might be useful.
we have that anti-gravity plating and the tiberian harvisting tentacle right.
we could latter on design a marv that utilizes both so that they don't have to touch the ground unless the absolutly need to.

we could even use the anti-gravity plating to design new Reclamator Hubs that can be mobile, they don't need to be fast because the purpose of them being mobile is that they don't need to be torn down and reconstructed when the marvs start getting to the point that there would be no reason for going to the hubs at all due to the distance.
 
heres an idea for latter on in the quest that might be useful.
we have that anti-gravity plating and the tiberian harvisting tentacle right.
we could latter on design a marv that utilizes both so that they don't have to touch the ground unless the absolutly need to.

we could even use the anti-gravity plating to design new Reclamator Hubs that can be mobile, they don't need to be fast because the purpose of them being mobile is that they don't need to be torn down and reconstructed when the marvs start getting to the point that there would be no reason for going to the hubs at all due to the distance.

Hover harvesters are probably going to be up for consideration in the near-ish future, if not MARVs. We can start producing hover trucks on a large enough scale to impact global logistics with the 2nd generation factories, so we can probably manage a harvester's worth of mass by the 3rd generation. Or just strap together a few 2nd generation truck chassis until they can hold a harvesting rig. The reduced maintenance tempo of being able to fly over Tiberium will presumably help significantly, and once some xenotech refineries are set up the STU cost should be affordable.
 
heres an idea for latter on in the quest that might be useful.
we have that anti-gravity plating and the tiberian harvisting tentacle right.
we could latter on design a marv that utilizes both so that they don't have to touch the ground unless the absolutly need to.

we could even use the anti-gravity plating to design new Reclamator Hubs that can be mobile, they don't need to be fast because the purpose of them being mobile is that they don't need to be torn down and reconstructed when the marvs start getting to the point that there would be no reason for going to the hubs at all due to the distance.
People have already discussed this idea in the past- hover tentacle harvesters and hover MARVs. It's a good idea, and one we've been looking forward to for quite a while.
 
Ugh. I do that all the time. XD
Sometimes I'm missing half the word as well, which is really confusing when I've dropped off the "n't" from "does" or similar. -_-

Yes, it's really annoying. And you only catch it at least half an hour later, and often only days. Because the brain knows what should be there and fills in.

The thing is: The liquid tib is already there. Red Zone are full of liquid tib.
Building a refinery inside a RZ doesn't increase the amount there, but it does give us a way to dispose of it.
Not stockpiling dangerously high amounts of it at the refinery should be easy to do, as it involves not picking the stuff up.
The alternative of transporting large amounts of this stuff into Blue Zones is not going to be popular, and it makes the situation less safe. A liquid tib explosion in a RZ is far less of a problem than the same happening in a BZ.
We also have Ion Collector technology, so building an ion storm safe(r) zone for the refinery is possible.

I hadn't considered the ion collector technology angle, but even with that.... I am not confident that GDI has the willingness or ability to build and maintain a large tiberium refinery in a Red Zone dedicated to liquid tiberium processing to process the liquid tiberium locally produced.

I must, however, disagree with the idea that a liquid tiberium explosion is not a problem in an RZ relative to a BZ.

Because liquid tiberium explosions tend to propagate, hard, through tiberium itself. The Temple Prime explosion blew up a good chunk of Europe in no small part because the liquid tiberium bomb in the temple could sympathetically trigger a massive tiberium glacier right outside. The bomb Boyle delivers at the end of the GDI campaign in Tiberium Wars as an option is, if used, responsible for basically blowing up a rather sizable part of Italy. Even the Australian Yellow Zone detonation that caused the Australian Red Zone detonated, AFAIK, tiberium deposits in the region. And in Red Zones it would be at best impractical to build a refinery far enough away to prevent sympathetic detonation.

Blue Zones are actually the best places to have a liquid tiberium bomb go off because both the chance of causing a sympathetic detonation of a tiberium vein is much smaller and if such a vein is destroyed, the likely area of effect is much smaller.

Still not good, but better than the alternative.

It's not, however, only ion strikes that worry me. Nod can pull silly buggers too, there's a reason I would prefer a lot of convoys carrying small loads. Sure, it's a security nightmare, but if something goes wrong, it probably won't go that badly wrong.
 
So, fortunately the wonderful Derpmind built the spreadsheet behind the Probability Array to pretty easily change over to 2d50s, so here is what this turn looks like using 2d50s:

Infrastructure 5 dice +27
-[] Blue Zone Arcologies (Stage 5) 29/450 5 dice 75R 37%, 6 dice 90R 89%, 7 dice 105R 100%
-[] Blue Zone Arcologies (Stage 5+6) 29/900 10 dice 150R 12%, 11 dice 165R 51%, 12 dice 180R 87%, 13 dice 195R 98%
-[] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 7) 93/250 2 dice 40R 69%, 3 dice 60R 100%
-[] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 7+8) 93/475 4 dice 80R 9%, 5 dice 100R 69%, 6 dice 120R 98%
-[] Rail Network Construction Campaigns (Phase 6) 108/245 1 die 15R 1%, 2 dice 30R 88%, 3 dice 45R 100%
-[] Rail Network Construction Campaigns (Phase 6+7) 108/490 4 dice 60R 9%, 5 dice 75R 69%, 6 dice 90R 98%

-[] Karachi Planned City (Phase 1) 0/50 1 die 20R 100%
-[] Karachi Planned City (Phase 1+2) 0/150 1 die 20R 1%, 2 dice 40R 94%
-[] Karachi Planned City (Phase 1+2+3) 0/345 3 dice 60R 5%, 4 dice 80R 77%, 5 dice 100R 100%
-[] Karachi Planned City (Phase 1+2+3+4) 0/735 7 dice 140R 5%, 8 dice 160R 50%, 9 dice 180R 93%
-[] Karachi Planned City (Phase 1+2+3+4) w/5 Infra dice 0/795 8 dice 160R 15%, 9 dice 180R 69%, 10 dice 200R 97%
-[] Karachi Planned City (Phase 1+2+3+4+5) 0/1515 15 dice 300R 3%

-[] Emergency Caloric Reclamation Processor Installations (Phase 2) 31/70 1 die 10R 100%
-[] Postwar Housing Refits (Phase 2) 33/150 1 die 10R 14%, 2 dice 20R 97%
-[] Postwar Housing Refits (Phase 2+3) 33/300 3 dice 30R 31%, 4 dice 40R 93%
-[] Advanced Tunnel Borer Development (New) 0/80 1 die 15R 80%, 2 dice 30R 100%
-[] Offshore Tiberium Harvester Stations (Phase 4) (New) 0/150 2 dice 40R 76%, 3 dice 60R 100%
Heavy Industry 5 dice +34
-[] U Series Alloy Foundries (Phase 6) 68/455 4 dice 160R 22%, 5 dice 200R 88%, 6 dice 240R 100%
-[] Second Generation Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 4) 117/270 2 dice 40R 86%, 3 dice 60R 100%
-[] Second Generation Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 4+5) 117/540 4 dice 80R 5%, 5 dice 100R 65%, 6 dice 120R 98%
-[] North Boston Chip Fabricator (Phase 5) 406/1805 15 dice 225R 9%
-[] Aberdeen Isolinear Fabricator (Phase 1) 0/90 1 die 30R 69%, 2 dice 60R 100%
-[] Aberdeen Isolinear Fabricator (Phase 1+2) 0/270 3 dice 90R 51%, 4 dice 120R 98%
-[] Aberdeen Isolinear Fabricator (Phase 1+2+3) 0/630 6 dice 180R 2%, 7 dice 210R 36%, 8 dice 240R 87%, 9 dice 270R 99%
-[] Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry (Phase 4) 143/935 8 dice 160R 5%, 9 dice 180R 43%, 10 dice 200R 87%, 11 dice 220R 99%
-[] Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry (Phase 4+5) 143/2735
-[] Microfusion Cell Laboratories 0/150 1 die 25R 1%, 2 dice 50R 94%
-[] Second Generation Repulsorplate Factories 365/525 2 dice 50R 80%, 3 dice 75R 100%
Light and Chemical Industry 4 dice +29
-[] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 4) 523/610 1 die 30R 66%, 2 dice 60R 100%
-[] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 4+5) 523/1750 14 dice 420R 12%, 15 dice 450R 44%
-[] Adaptive Cloth Factories 0/300 3 dice 45R 11%, 4 dice 60R 80%, 5 dice 75R 100%
-[] High Energy Capacitors Development (Tech) (New) 0/60 1 die 20R 98%
Agriculture 6 dice +29
-[] Reforestation Campaign Preparations (Phase 1) 737/805 1 die 5R 90%, 2 dice 10R 100%
-[] Reforestation Campaign Preparations (Phase 1+2) 737/1595 9 dice 45R 2%, 10 dice 50R 26%, 11 dice 55R 71%, 12 dice 60R 95%
-[] Blue Zone Aquaponics Bays (Phase 6) 18/125 1 die 10R 30%, 2 dice 20R 99%
-[] Blue Zone Aquaponics Bays (Phase 6+7) 18/250 2 dice 20R 2%, 3 dice 30R 74%, 4 dice 40R 100%
-[] Blue Zone Aquaponics Bays (Phase 6+7+8) 18/375 4 dice 40R 30%, 5 dice 50R 90%, 6 dice 60R 100%
-[] Vertical Farming Projects (Stage 5) 78/215 1 die 15R 1%, 2 dice 30R 91%
-[] Dairy Ranches (Phase 3) 98/180 1 die 20R 73%, 2 dice 40R 100%

-[] Spider Cotton Plantations (Phase 2) 60/160 1 die 20R 51%, 2 dice 40R 100%
-[] Spider Cotton Plantations (Phase 2+3) 60/325 3 dice 45R 56%, 4 dice 60R 99%
-[] Spider Cotton Plantations (Phase 2+3) 60/500 4 dice 60R 2%, 5 dice 75R 50%, 6 dice 90R 96%
-[] Spider Cotton Plantations (Phase 2+3+4+5) 60/685 6 dice 90R 2%, 7 dice 105R 40%, 8 dice 120R 89%, 9 dice 135R 99%

-[] Tarberry Plantations (Phase 3) 3/65 1 die 10R 97%
-[] Tarberry Plantations (Phase 3+4) 3/130 1 die 10R 11%, 2 dice 20R 98%
-[] Strategic Food Stockpile Construction (Phase 5) 78/170 1 die 10R 57%, 2 dice 20R 100%
-[] Strategic Food Stockpile Construction (Phase 5+6) 78/320 3 dice 30R 65%, 4 dice 40R 99%
-[] Strategic Food Stockpile Construction (Phase 5+6+7) 78/470 4 dice 40R 8%, 5 dice 50R 69%, 6 dice 60R 98%
-[] Laboratory Meat Deployment (Phase 1) 0/170 2 dice 30R 57%, 3 dice 45R 99%
-[] Organ Farming Programs (Tech) (New) (MS) 0/120 1 die 10R 19%, 2 dice 20R 99%
Tiberium 7 dice +39
-[] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 11) 4/165 2 dice 40R 88%, 3 dice 60R 100%
-[] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 10+11) 4/330 3 dice 60R 13%, 4 dice 80R 89%, 5 dice 100R 100%

-[] Red Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Stage 12) 29/120 1 die 25R 75%, 2 dice 50R 100%
-[] Red Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Stage 12+13) 29/235 2 dice 50R 36%, 3 dice 75R 99%
-[] Deep Red Zone Tiberium Glacier Mining (Stage 4) 0/190 2 dice 60R 57%, 3 dice 90R 100%
-[] Deep Red Zone Tiberium Glacier Mining (Stage 4+5) 0/380 4 dice 120R 46%, 5 dice 150R 97%
-[] Red Zone Containment Lines (Stage 6) 54/180 1 die 25R 17%, 2 dice 50R 99%
-[] Red Zone Containment Lines (Stage 6+7) 54/350 3 dice 75R 39%, 4 dice 100R 97%
-[] Red Zone Containment Lines (Stage 6+7+8) 54/520 4 dice 100R 1%, 5 dice 125R 50%, 6 dice 150R 96%
-[] Tiberium Glacier Mining (Stage 13) 38/165 1 die 30R 16%, 2 dice 60R 99%
-[] Tiberium Glacier Mining (Stage 13+14) 38/320 3 dice 90R 54%, 4 dice 120R 99%

-[] IHG Tiberium Processing Plants (Stage 1) 0/150 1 die 35R 1%, 2 dice 70R 94%
-[] IHG Tiberium Processing Plants (Stage 1+2) 0/340 3 dice 105R 6%, 4 dice 140R 80%, 5 dice 175R 100%
-[] Improved Hewlett Gardener Refits (Phase 3) 2/200 2 dice 70R 47%, 3 dice 105R 99%
-[] Improved Hewlett Gardener Refits (Phase 3+4) 2/400 4 dice 140R 29%, 5 dice 175R 93%
-[] Improved Hewlett Gardener Refits (Phase 3+4+5) 2/600 6 dice 210R 20%, 7 dice 245R 81%, 8 dice 280R 99%
-[] Improved Hewlett Gardener Refits (Phase 3+4+5+6) 2/800 8 dice 280R 14%, 9 dice 315R 67%, 10 dice 350R 97%
-[] Improved Hewlett Gardener Refits (Phase 3+4+5+6+7) 2/1100 11 dice 385R 9%, 12 dice 420R 49%, 13 dice 455R 88%, 14 dice 490R 99%
-[] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment (Blue Zones) 0/75 1 die 30R 92%
-[] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment (Yellow Zones) 0/100 1 die 30R 60%, 2 dice 60R 100%
-[] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment (Red Zones) 0/90 1 die 30R 76%, 2 dice 60R 100%
-[] Improved Tiberium Containment Facilities Construction (Phase 2) 11/90 1 die 20R 89%, 2 dice 40R 100%
-[] Liquid Tiberium Power Cell Deployment (Phase 3) 4/105 1 die 20R 59%, 2 dice 40R 100%
-[] Liquid Tiberium Power Cell Deployment (Phase 3+4) 4/210 2 dice 40R 36%, 3 dice 60R 99%

-[] Enhanced Harvest Tiberium Spikes 145/180 1 die 20R 100%
-[] Red Zone Energy Refits (Phase 1) 0/265 3 dice 75R 71%, 4 dice 100R 100%
-[] Red Zone Energy Refits (Phase 1+2) 0/530 5 dice 125R 8%, 6 dice 150R 69%, 7 dice 175R 98%
-[] Red Zone Energy Refits (Phase 1+2+3) 0/795 8 dice 200R 15%, 9 dice 225R 69%, 10 dice 250R 97%
-[] Forgotten Experimentation 0/260 2 dice 60R 3%, 3 dice 90R 87%, 4 dice 120R 100%
-[] Secure Yellow Zones (Phase 1) 0/300 3 dice 75R 34%, 4 dice 100R 97%
-[] Secure Yellow Zones (Phase 1+2) 0/600 6 dice 150R 19%, 7 dice 175R 80%, 8 dice 200R 99%
-[] Secure Yellow Zones (Phase 1+2+3) 0/900 9 dice 225R 11%, 10 dice 250R 59%, 11 dice 275R 94%
-[] Secure Yellow Zones (Phase 1+2+3+4) 0/1200 12 dice 300R 7%, 13 dice 325R 42%, 14 dice 350R 84%, 15 dice 375R 98%
-[] Coordinated Abatement Programs (Phase 3) 93/175 1 die 25R 86%, 2 dice 50R 100%
-[] Xenotech Tiberium Refinery Development (Tech) (New) 0/180 2 dice 70R 80%, 3 dice 105R 100%
-[] Liquid Tiberium Refining Development (Tech) (New) 0/180 2 dice 40R 80%, 3 dice 60R 100%
Orbital 7 dice +34
--GDSS Columbia Bays (4 available)--
-[] SCOP Bay 0/295 3 dice 60R 40%, 4 dice 80R 98%
-[] High Density Housing 0/295 3 dice 60R 40%, 4 dice 80R 98%
-[] Assembler Bay 0/255 2 dice 40R 2%, 3 dice 60R 80%, 4 dice 80R 100%
-[] Spaceport Bay 0/295 3 dice 60R 40%, 4 dice 80R 98%

-[] GDSS Shala (Phase 5) 868/975 1 die 20R 47%, 2 dice 40R 100%
--GDSS Shala Bays (3 available)--
-[] Experimental Crops Bay (Stage 1) 0/255 2 dice 40R 2%, 3 dice 60R 80%, 4 dice 80R 100%
-[] Experimental Crops Bay (Stage 1+2) 0/510 5 dice 100R 17%, 6 dice 120R 82%, 7 dice 140R 99%
-[] Animal Husbandry Bay 0/255 2 dice 40R 2%, 3 dice 60R 80%, 4 dice 80R 100%
-[] Species Restoration Bay (Stage 1) 0/255 2 dice 40R 2%, 3 dice 60R 80%, 4 dice 80R 100%
-[] Species Restoration Bay (Stage 1+2) 0/510 5 dice 100R 17%, 6 dice 120R 82%, 7 dice 140R 99%
-[] High Efficiency Void Crops Bay 0/210 2 dice 40R 31%, 3 dice 60R 98%

-[] Lunar Mining Projects 0/185 2 dice 40R 51%, 3 dice 60R 99%
Services 4 dice +35
-[] Advanced Electronic Video Assistant Deployment 0/200 2 dice 40R 34%, 3 dice 60R 98%
-[] Regional Hospital Expansions (Phase 2) 85/270 2 dice 50R 53%, 3 dice 75R 100%
-[] Autodoc Systems Deployment 0/280 3 dice 90R 43%, 4 dice 120R 97%
-[] Cosmetic Biosculpting (Tech) 194/345 1 die 30R 1%, 2 dice 60R 95%
-[] Durable Goods Library Improvements 0/160 2 dice 40R 82%, 3 dice 60R 100%
-[] Primitive Prototype Portal Construction (Tech) 279/400 1 die 100R 33%, 2 dice 200R 100%
-[] Civil Sensory Augmentics Development (Tech) (New) 0/120 1 die 20R 27%, 2 dice 40R 100%
-[] Civil Prosthetics Development (Tech) (New) 0/120 1 die 20R 27%, 2 dice 40R 100%
-[] Phage Engineering Development (Tech) (New) 0/40 1 die 15R 100%
-[] Biowarfare Ccountermeasures Cdevelopment (Tech) (New) 0/40 1 die 15R 100%
-[] Rage Engine Development (Tech) (New) 0/80 1 die 25R 89%, 2 dice 50R 100%
-[] Wet AI Development (Tech) (New) (MS) 0/240 2 dice 60R 7%, 3 dice 90R 91%
-[] Stasis Box Development (Tech) (New) (MS) 0/120 1 die 30R 27%, 2 dice 60R 100%
-[] Projected Hardlight Development (Tech) (New) 0/60 1 die 15R 100%
-[] Drone Control Hub Development (New) (Tech) 0/180 2 dice 40R 72%, 3 dice 60R 100%
Military 7 dice +31
-[] Department of Refits -1 Mil die -30 RpT auto
-[] Stealth Field Generator Development (Tech) (New) 0/60 1 die 15R 99%
-[] Tib Core Missile Seeker Analysis (Tech) (New) 0/60 1 die 5R 99%
-[] Initiative Laser Systems Deployment (Phase 1) 0/185 2 dice 60R 43%, 3 dice 90R 99%
-[] Initiative Laser Systems Deployment (Phase 1+2) 0/370 4 dice 120R 26%, 5 dice 150R 89%, 6 dice 180R 100%
-[] Initiative Laser Systems Deployment (Phase 1+2+3) 0/555 6 dice 180R 17%, 7 dice 210R 74%, 8 dice 240R 98%
-[] Antiradiation Munitions Deployment (Munitions) 200/265 1 die 15R 94%
-[] Electronic Countermeasures Improvements 0/500 5 dice 75R 5%, 6 dice 90R 56%, 7 dice 105R 95%
-[] ASAT Defense System (Phase 5) 41/425 4 dice 80R 31%, 5 dice 100R 93%
-[] Military Particle Beam Development 0/100 1 die 20R 55%, 2 dice 40R 100%
-[] Ferro Aluminum Armor Refits 139/295 2 dice 10R 78%, 3 dice 15R 100%
-[] Inferno Gel Development (Tech) 0/40 1 die 10R 100%
-[] Binary Propellant Exploration (Tech) 0/60 1 die 10R 99%
-[] Advanced Armor Composites (Tech) (New) 0/80 1 die 15R 85%, 2 dice 30R 100%
--MARVs--
-[] Reclamator Hub 0/250 3 dice 60R 62%, 4 dice 80R 99%
--Alt: 2 Mil 1 Tib dice 60R 71%, 2 Mil 2 Tib dice 80R 100%
-[] Reclamator Hub x2 0/500 5 dice 100R 5%, 6 dice 120R 56%, 7 dice 140R 95%
--Alt: 2 Mil 3 Tib dice 100R 14%, 2 Mil 4 Tib dice 120R 78%, 2 Mil 5 Tib dice 140R 99%
-[] Reclamator Hub BZ-1 (St. Petersburg) 39/260 2 dice 40R 8%, 3 dice 60R 87%, 4 dice 80R 100%
-[] Reclamator Hub BZ-2 (Richmond) 58/265 2 dice 40R 18%, 3 dice 60R 94%
--Zone Operations Command--
-[] Zrbite Sonic Weapons Deployment (Phase 2) 52/640 6 dice 120R 5%, 7 dice 140R 51%, 8 dice 160R 93%
-[] Advanced Articulation Systems (Tech) (New) 0/60 1 die 15R 99%
--Air Force--
-[] Orca Wingmen Drone Deployment (Phase 2) 196/215 1 die 20R 100%
-[] Ultralight Glide Munitions Deployment (Munitions) (Phase 2) 35/150 1 die 10R 21%, 2 dice 20R 99%
-[] Ultralight Glide Munitions Deployment (Munitions) (Phase 2+3) 35/300 3 dice 30R 46%, 4 dice 40R 97%
-[] NovaHawk Development 0/40 1 die 15R 100%
-[] Thunderbolt II Missile Development (Platform) (New) 0/60 1 die 15R 99%
--Space Force--
-[] Orbital Nuclear Caches 0/140 1 die 20R 3%, 2 dice 40R 96%
-[] Transorbital Fighter Deployment (New) 0/90 1 die 25R 64%, 2 dice 50R 100%
--Ground Forces--
-[] Railgun Munitions Factories (Phase 3) 150/160 1 die 10R 100%
-[] Next-Generation Armored Support Vehicles 0/80 1 die 25R 85%, 2 dice 50R 100%
-[] Next-Generation Armored Fighting Vehicles 0/80 1 die 35R 85%, 2 dice 70R 100%
-[] Ground Forces Zone Armor (Set 2) (Phase 1) 16/285 3 dice 60R 42%, 4 dice 80R 97%
-[] Ground Forces Zone Armor (Set 2) (Phase 1+2) 16/570 6 dice 120R 18%, 7 dice 140R 74%, 8 dice 160R 98%
-[] GD-3 Deployment (Phase 1) 0/180 2 dice 20R 49%, 3 dice 30R 99%
-[] GD-3 Deployment (Phase 1+2) 0/360 4 dice 40R 35%, 5 dice 50R 92%
-[] GD-3 Deployment (Phase 1+2+3) 0/540 6 dice 60R 26%, 7 dice 70R 82%, 8 dice 80R 99%
-[] GD-3 Deployment (Phase 1+2+3+4) 0/720 8 dice 80R 20%, 9 dice 90R 71%, 10 dice 100R 96%
-[] GD-3 Deployment (Phase 1+2+3+4+5) 0/900 10 dice 100R 16%, 11 dice 110R 60%, 12 dice 120R 92%
-[] Stealth Disruptor Deployment 0/160 2 dice 30R 74%, 3 dice 45R 100%
--Navy–
-[] Governor-A Deployment (Refits) 0/350 4 dice 80R 44%, 5 dice 100R 95%
-[] Island Class Assault Ship Deployment 70/135 1 die 25R 94%
-[] SSN Development Program 0/120 1 die 30R 21%, 2 dice 60R 99%
--Steel Talons--
-[] Modular Rapid Assembly Prototype Factory 102/265 2 dice 40R 71%, 3 dice 60R 100%
-[] Unmanned Support Ground Vehicle Deployment 0/240 2 dice 40R 2%, 3 dice 60R 72%, 4 dice 80R 100%
-[] Fast Twitch Myomers Development (Tech) (New) 0/60 1 die 10R 99%
-[] Phased Plasma Weapons Development (Tech) (New) 0/80 1 die 15R 85%, 2 dice 30R 100%
-[] Particle Shield Development (Tech) (New) 0/120 1 die 25R 21%, 2 dice 50R 99%
Bureaucracy 4 dice +29
-[] Administrative Assistance 2 dice auto (+1 free die this turn with no bonuses.)
-[] Transfer Funding to InOps 1 die auto
-[] Hand Off Capital Goods to Market 1 die auto
-[] Transfer funds to the General Pool 1 die auto
-[] Make Political Promises 1 die auto
-[] Long Term Systematic Planning Organization 1 die -2 free dice auto
-[] Predictive Modeling Management 1 die auto
-[] Trade Programs 1 die auto
-[] Purchasing Contracts (New) 1 die auto
 
So I'm new here.

How do I vote?
[#]Plan This Is A Plan

But replace that # with an X.

EDIT: This sort of quest votes by plan--when one wants to present a new plan, one writes it like so:

[#]Plan This Is A Plan
-[#]Section One
--[#]Item One
--[#]Item Two
--[#]Item Three
-[#]Section Two
--[#]Item One
--[#]Item Two
--[#]Item Three

But the tally program will accept just the title if you're voting for someone else's plan.
 
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Also, at the top of the thread, you should see a "thread tools v" button. Clicking it should give you the "vote tally" option, which opens a pop-up that lets you see the current plans, and how many people voted for them. You can copy/paste the first line of a plan to vote for it. Another method, although not used very often, is to vote for a person's username, which copies their vote.
 
[X]Plan attempting to invent new things
-[X]Infrastructure 5 dice 85R
--[X]Rail Network Construction Campaigns (Phase 6) 108/245 2 dice 30R 78%
--[X] Advanced Tunnel Borer Development (New) 0/80 1 die 15R 68%
--[X] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 7) 93/250 2 dice 40R 63%
-[X]Heavy Industry 5 dice +1 Free dice 140R
--[X] Second Generation Repulsorplate Factories 365/525 2 dice 50R 72%
--[X] Microfusion Cell Laboratories 0/150 2 dice 50R 85%
--[X] Second Generation Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 4) 117/270 2 dice 40R 77%
-[X]Light and Chemical Industry 4 dice 95R
--[X] High Energy Capacitors Development (Tech) (New) 0/60 1 die 20R 90%
--[X] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 4) 523/610 2 dice 60R 99%
--[X] Adaptive Cloth Factories (New) 0/300 1 Dice 15R
-[X]Agriculture 6 dice 80R
--[X] Organ Farming Programs (Tech) (New) (MS) 0/120 2 die 40R 72%
--[X] Vertical Farming Projects (Stage 5) 78/215 2 dice 30R 80%
--[X] Reforestation Campaign Preparations (Phase 1) 737/805 2 dice 10R 100%
-[X]Tiberium 7 dice +2 Free dice 245R
--[X] Enhanced Harvest Tiberium Spikes 145/180 1 die 20R 100%
--[X] Xenotech Tiberium Refinery Development (Tech) (New) 0/180 2 dice 70R 72%
--[X] Liquid Tiberium Refining Development (Tech) (New) 0/180 2 dice 40R 72%
--[X] Forgotten Experimentation 0/260 3 dice 90R 77%
--[X] Coordinated Abatement Programs (Phase 3) 93/175 1 die 25R 73%
-[X]Orbital 7 dice 140R
--[X] GDSS Shala (Phase 5) 868/975 2 dice 40R 99%;
--[X] Spaceport Bay 0/295 3 dice 60R 42%
--[X] Lunar Mining Projects 0/195 2 dice 40R 40%
-[X]Services 4 dice +3 Free dice + Erewhon 245R
--[X] Primitive Prototype Portal Construction (Tech) 279/400 1 die 100R 40%
--[X] Biowarfare Countermeasures Development (Tech) (New) 0/40 1 die 15R 100%
--[X] Projected Hardlight Development (Tech) (New) 0/60 1 die 15R 96%
--[X] Civil Sensory Augmentics Development (Tech) (New) 0/120 1 die 20R 36%
--[X] Civil Prosthetics Development (Tech) (New) 0/120 1 die 20R 36%
--[X] Regional Hospital Expansions (Phase 2) 85/270 2 dice + Erewhon 75R 51%
-[X]Military 7 dice 115R
--[X] Inferno Gel Development (Tech) 0/40 1 die 10R 100%
--[X] Binary Propellant Exploration (Tech) 0/60 1 die 10R 92%
--[X] Advanced Armor Composites (Tech) (New) 0/80 1 die 15R 72%
--[X] Orca Wingmen Drone Deployment (Phase 2) 196/215 1 die 20R 100%
--[X] Island Class Assault Ship Deployment 70/135 1 die 25R 82%
--[X] Particle Shield Development (Tech) (New) 0/120 1 die 25R 32%
--[X] Fast Twitch Myomers Development (Tech) (New) 0/60 1 die 10R 92%
-[X]Bureaucracy 4 dice 85R
--[X] Transfer Funding to InOps 1 Dice 60R
--[X] Hand Off 10Capital Goods to Market
--[X] Trade Programs Sell consumer goods
--[X] Purchasing Contracts 1 Dice
---[X] Purchase Logistics X2: -10 resources per turn
---[X] Purchase Capital Goods: -15 resources per turn
Total cost 1230R

edit: Retaining meme plan too.

[X]Plan attempting to Grill the Burrito's
-[X]Infrastructure 5 dice 85R
--[X] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 7) (93/250) 2 dice 40R 63%
--[X] Rail Network Construction Campaigns (Phase 6) 108/245 2 dice 30R 78%
--[X] Advanced Tunnel Borer Development (New) 0/80 1 die 15R 68%
-[X]Heavy industry 5 dice 110R
--[X] Second Generation Repulsorplate Factories (365/525) 2 dice 50R 72%
--[X] Second Generation Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 4) 117/270 3 dice 60R 99%
-[X]Light and Chemical Industry 4 dice 110R
--[X] High Energy Capacitors Development (Tech) (New) 0/60 1 die 20R 90%
--[X] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 4+5) 523/1750 3 Dice 90R (phase 4 completes)
-[X]Agriculture 6 dice +6 Free dice +Erewhon 160R
--[X] Reforestation Campaign Preparations (Phase 1+2) 737/1595 3 Dice 15R (phase 1 completes)
--[X] Blue Zone Aquaponics Bays (Phase 6+7) 18/250 3 dice 30R 66%
--[X] Vertical Farming Projects (Stage 5) 78/215 2 dice 30R 80%
--[X] Dairy Ranches (Phase 3) 98/180 2 dice 40R 100%
--[X] Laboratory Meat Deployment (Phase 1) 0/170 2 dice +Erewhon 45R 54%
-[X]Tiberium 7 dice 175R
--[X] Red Zone Containment Lines (Stage 6+7+8) 54/520 5 dice 125R 48%
--[X] Coordinated Abatement Programs (Phase 3) 93/175 2 dice 50R 100%
-[X]Orbital 7 dice 140R
--[X] GDSS Shala (Phase 5) 868/975 2 dice 40R 99%
--[X] Spaceport Bay 0/295 3 dice 60R 42%
--[X] Animal Husbandry Bay 0/255 2 dice 40R 8%
-[X]Services 4 dice 100R
--[X] Regional Hospital Expansions (Phase 2) 85/270 2 dice 50R 51%
--[X] Cosmetic Biosculpting (Tech) 194/345 1 die 30R 5%
--[X] Civil Prosthetics Development (Tech) (New) 0/120 1 die 20R 36%
-[X]Military 7 dice 140R
--[X] Orca Wingmen Drone Deployment (Phase 2) 196/215 1 die 20R 100%
--[X] Island-Class Assault Ship Deployment 70/135 1 die 25R 82%
--[X] Particle Shield Development (Tech) (New) 0/120 2 dice 50R 95%
--[X] Modular Rapid Assembly Prototype Factory (102/265) 1 die 20R
--[X] Advanced Armor Composites (Tech) (New) 0/80 1 die 15R 72%
--[X] Fast Twitch Myomers Development (Tech) (New) 0/60 1 die 10R 92%
-[X]Burrito 4 Dice 80R
--[X] Purchase Logistics: -5 resources per turn, +1 Logistics (Max 2)
--[X] Purchase Capital Goods: -15 resources per turn, +1 Capital Goods (Max 1)
--[X] Transfer Funding to InOps 1 die auto -60 resources per turn
--[X] Hand Off 10 Capital Goods to Market 1 die auto
 
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@Shadows
If doing predictive modelling management means that we're rolling 2d50's instead of d100's it might be worth moving a couple dice around on your plan. I think 2d50 + Erewhon has a 95.31% chance of completing Shala. If you think that's good enough then the easiest change to make would probably be put Erewhon on Shala and a free dice on the species bay.
Only other place I think 2d50's really make a difference this turn is Xenotech refining which has an 80% chance of finishing with 2 dice 4d50. If you think that's good enough then you can put a tib dice somewhere else.
 
It's not, however, only ion strikes that worry me. Nod can pull silly buggers too, there's a reason I would prefer a lot of convoys carrying small loads. Sure, it's a security nightmare, but if something goes wrong, it probably won't go that badly wrong.
Nod tend to have their main facilities located closer to red zones, which means that in many places they would get hit by the fallout from such an attack.
 
@Shadows
If doing predictive modelling management means that we're rolling 2d50's instead of d100's it might be worth moving a couple dice around on your plan. I think 2d50 + Erewhon has a 95.31% chance of completing Shala. If you think that's good enough then the easiest change to make would probably be put Erewhon on Shala and a free dice on the species bay.
Only other place I think 2d50's really make a difference this turn is Xenotech refining which has an 80% chance of finishing with 2 dice 4d50. If you think that's good enough then you can put a tib dice somewhere else.
A die on an inhibitor would be swell...
 
While i am generally against idea of a huge liquid tiberium complex untill we have a much better tech for handling it, it should be noted that since most of humanity lives in the giant arciologies mega cities and with just so few of them left there exist several miles of just empty blue zone and yellow zone areas.

Finding an empty spot to build a megacomplex shouldn't be that hard. Just the issue of liquid explosions having a huge tendency to go really big.

The visitors also seem to be using a lot of liquid tiberium in their stuff as well, which may be a solid indication that it is a lot better then solid tiberium. With the note that Kane did call them a tiberium drug cult, so it might be because they wanna insert liquid tiberium into their smoothies rather then because it's more efficient.

I do support smaller liquid tiberium facilities nearbye red zones though, because we do need to start handling it, so we can do something about all of it underground, before it properly explodes on us.
 
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