Remove ads

Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

Reader mode
mmgaballah said:
I object , the army wants new gear now not in another 15 years , our tanks are already better than what Nod has to offer so the next gen is gonna be even better so their isn't enough return for us to waste more time to make them even better by waiting more , third our tanks while good are long in the teeth so best replace them now while we have the advantage rather than later when they are obsolete and at a disadvantage , forth its gonna take a long time to build and refit the needed factories and even longer for those factories to produce the needed tanks so the sooner we get started the better rather than do the same mistake as we did with the navy , we can still give them all the new stuff later via upgrades and their is always the generation of tanks after this once we get mass effect tech to stuff in all the toys
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I literally already addressed this in the post you quoted, it's a *1 turn* delay, that is 3 months, as in 1/60th of "15 years", and the shields and armor are a transformative improvement in survivability. Also, if you'd actually finished reading my post you'd know that shields cannot be easily integrated as an upgrade by Word of QM; not including them from the start is penny-wise and pound-foolish. With the Navy the issue was that we waited like two years for Wingman Drones and the escort carriers themselves took 2 more years each to build, this is not remotely the same magnitude of delay. If the Army really wanted them so goddamn badly that a 3-month delay is unacceptable then they could have slapped a High Priority tag on the projects, as the Air Force has done with Novahawks; they haven't, so I feel fairly safe in assuming that the projects aren't so urgent as to demand we drop everything to get them done as soon as possible.
 
Last edited:
There is also "Very High Priority" tag, and a number of "Do this or start losing some PS" tags of various intensities, up to "Do this. We are no longer asking."

The dissatisfaction of the military is a fairly broad spectrum.
 
Prospalz said:
There is also "Very High Priority" tag, and a number of "Do this or start losing some PS" tags of various intensities, up to "Do this. We are no longer asking."

The dissatisfaction of the military is a fairly broad spectrum.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Pretty much.
And while Navy tends to be less direct in their demands, including removing projects from the docket with sometimes minimal warnings, Army and Air Force were actually pretty good in making their preferences very clear up to and including using extreme political pressure.
And I am pretty sure they would agree that installing fully new armor materials and far better shields is worth a bit of a delay, because if they would have wanted something right now and damn the consequences, we really would know about it.
 
Last edited:
I really like both of the leading plans but I will have to go with New Age because it has Inferno Gel on it. As much I like open hand, I will not let IF bullshit stand in the way of getting that thing done

[x] Plan New Age of Refining
 
So what plan puts the most into space? Again, I really want to hedge my bets.
 
Hunter531 said:
The Open Hand has never, to my knowledge, denied that some of them and their associates have done horrible things during the war. Both sides have. Open Hand is about forgiving said actions in order to move towards a brighter future. Plus, there's not a whole lot of reason to actually argue against the banning of Inferno Gel. Not unless you're a far fringe member of IF, and the danger for mainstream politicians of being tainted by association means those arguments don't spread beyond said fringe
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This sort of moral equivocating is at best useless, and at worst liable to get your ass kicked if someone seriously argued this in character. The greatest of GDI's crimes can be attributed to neglect, arrogance, and ignorance. The greatest of NOD's crimes stem from aiding and abetting the worst mass murderer in human history. The Outback Tiberium blast, CABAL, the World Altering Missile, the Sarajevo Tiberium Blast, the Scrin, nuking GDI during the Scrin invasion etc.

GDI doesn't want inferno gel to incinerate apartments like NOD does. It doesn't want Inferno Gel as a terror weapon. It wants Inferno Gel because incendiaries have proven incredibly effective against vehicles and material ever since the Finns fought the Soviets. Equating GDI's intended use to Blackhand shocktroops spreading terror as they march through a city is going to be incredibly offensive to the vast majority of GDI. Most of whom probably know people who've lost someone to NOD's 'cleansing fire'. Former instigators of terror preaching against it doesn't signal forgiveness even if that's the intent, it signals insincerity.

Hunter531 said:
Unless Nod suddenly starts using large amounts of automated vehicles, any use of Inferno Gel by GDI will involve people dying horrifically painful deaths. That's not something that can be dodged around.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
NOD already used automated weapon carriers in the Mantis AA drone by TW3. With further drone tech development, population losses, and Scrin tech they're almost certainly going to use more automation. And in the scenario where a tank does get hit by incendiaries, it's more likely for them to suffocate from the air being consumed by the fire than they are to just cook. Yes, it's a poor way to go, so is radiation poisoning from braking radiation from an ion cannon going off or a plasma warhead. So is being crippled and blinded because there's so many lasers in the battle space (I'm pretty sure blinding lasers are explicitly war crimes irl). Let me be fully blunt, we've taken the time after the war to develop weapons like zrbite sonic equipment, and they've tended to pivot towards biologically engineered potentially sapient slave races to fight and die for them. Every single warlord is essentially a war criminal of the highest order profiting off the industrialized misery of engineered sapients who possibly don't even have the context to conceive of freedom, peace, and a long and happy life.

I don't care about the inferno gel on its own, I dislike the controversy blinding us to the far greater moral perils of some of our other choices, like pretty much anything we do to work with the twins. As far as I'm concerned, Open Hand deciding to make an issue out of this doesn't really speak well of this as NOD literally invents new crimes against humanity in the background.
 
Last edited:
I'm making a heavy push for developing platforms and the transformative technologies that they need. The ground forces have been screaming that the current Predator tanks, Mammoth tanks, and Guardian APCs have been out of date for an entire generation now. The air force has also said that their workhorse fighter is out of date too, with Nod an entire generation ahead with the new Banshee fighters.

But then there's a problem with the new armor composites and particle shield devs that have not been developed and aren't likely to be just refit into the vehicles. I'd like to solve that issue by concurrently developing particle shields and new armor simultaneously with the new platforms. We've seen in the past that concurrent tech and platform devs will allow for the techs to be put into the platforms. So that's what I'm doing to prevent the platforms from being pushed off.

I really want to stress that our next gen platforms have been heavily delayed and Nod is starting to outclass us there. We've been doing a lot of weapon tech development that is only a bandaid for keeping our last generation tanks and fighters competitive and I think that hurts us in the long term. And it takes time to build up a working amount of next gen vehicles, the factories take time to churn out the numbers. We need to start working on platforms for now for the next conflict before it's too late.

There is a down side to this plan though, and that's delaying weapon development like biprop, stealth disruptor, tib seeker, particle cannons, etc (all important technologies) for one turn. Those are techs that can be refit easily into the next gen platforms.

And finally, I'd like to push for Lunar Mines! We are going to need those resources already on the moon for any future moon habitation there. Not to mention the extra resources from a non-ZOCOM stressing source. I'm taking the opportunity to do them now while we are slightly bottlenecked by Shala's completion, while not neglecting the species restoration bay.

[X] Plan Platforms Platforms Platforms!
-[X] Infrastructure (5/5 Dice, +27 bonus, 95R)
--[X] Advanced Tunnel Borer Development (Tech) (0/80) 15R, 1D
--[X] Offshore Tiberium Harvester Stations (Phase 4) (0/150) 40R, 2D
--[X] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 7) (93/250) 40R, 2D
-[X] Heavy Industry (5/5 Dice + 3 FD + Erewhon, +34 bonus, 170R)
--[X] North Boston Chip Fabricator (Phase 5) (406/1805) 50R, 3D+E
--[X] Second Generation Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 3) (117/275) 40R, 2D, 77%
--[X] Aberdeen Isolinear Fabricator (Phase 1) (0/90) 30R, 1D, 60%
--[X] Second Generation Repulsorplate Factories (365/525) 50R, 2D, 72%
-[X] Light Industry (4/4 Dice, +24 bonus, 110R)
--[X] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 4) (523/610) 90R, 3D
--[X] High Energy Capacitors Development (Tech) (0/60) 20R, 1D
-[X] Agriculture (6/6 Dice, +29 bonus, 40R)
--[X] Reforestation Campaign Preparations (Phase 1) (737/805) 20R, 4D
--[X] Strategic Food Stockpile Construction (Phase 5) (78/170) 20R, 2D
-[X] Tiberium (7/7 Dice, +39 bonus, 210R)
--[X] Enhanced Harvest Tiberium Spikes (Platform) (145/180) 20R, -5PS , 1D, 100%
--[X] Coordinated Abatement Programs (Phase 3) (93/175) 25R, 1D, 73%
--[X] Xenotech Tiberium Refinery Development (Tech) (0/180) 70R, 2D, 73%
--[X] Liquid Tiberium Refining Development (Tech) (New) (0/180) 40R, 2D, 72%
--[X] Forgotten Experimentation (Tech) (0/260) 30R, 1D
-[X] Orbital (7/7 dice + 2 FD, +34 bonus, 180R)
--[X] Spaceport Bay (0/295) 80R, 2D
--[X] Species Restoration Bay (0/255) 20R, 3D
--[X] GDSS Shala (868/975) 40R, 2D
--[X] Lunar Mining Projects (0/195) 40R, 2D, 40%
-[X] Services (4/4 Dice, +32 bonus, 170R)
--[X] Primitive Prototype Portal Construction (Tech) (279/400) 100R, 1D
--[X] Cosmetic Biosculpting (184/345) 30R, 1D
--[X] Civil Sensory Augmentics Development (Tech) (120) 20R, 1D
--[X] Drone Control Hub Development (New) (Tech) (0/180) 20R, 1D
-[X] Military (7/7 dice, 1 FD, 1 AA, +31 bonus, 185 R)
--[X] Particle Shield Development (Tech) (New) (0/120) 1 die 25R 32%
--[X] Advanced Armor Composites (0/80) 15R, 1D, 72%
--[X] NovaHawk Development (High Priority), (0/40), 15R, 1D
--[X] Next Generation Armored Support Vehicles (Platform), (0/80), 25R, 1D
--[X] Orca Wingmen Drone Deployment (Phase 2) (186/215) 20R, 1AA
--[X] Governor-A Deployment (Refits) (0/350) 40R, 2D
--[X] Island-Class Assault Ship Deployment (70/135) 25R, 1D
--[X] Modular Rapid Assembly Prototype Factory (102/265) 20R, 1D
-[X] Bureaucracy (4/4 Dice, +29 bonus)
--[X] Predictive Modeling Management (-10 Capital Goods)
--[X] Make Political Promises
--[X] Developmentalists: Complete Xenotech Refining Development and have at least 500 processing capacity using the resulting method before 2066 Q1. Complete Liquid Tiberium Fabrication Development before 2066 Q1.
---[X] Open Hand: Do not complete Inferno Gel Development (-1 SCIENCE Meter, -5 PS)
---[X] Tiberium Department: Complete Xenotech Tiberium Refinery Development before 2065 Q1 (Waiting GM for approval)
---[X] Socialists: Complete 2 of: Cosmetic Biosculpting, Civil Sensory Augmentics Development, Civil Prosthetics Development, Phage Engineering Development, before 2066 Q1
---[X] Reclamation: Affirm commitment to Reforestation Campaign Preparations (Waiting GM for approval)
--[X] Administrative Assistance (Military)

Total cost: 1160R
 
@Shadows Any chance you'd be willing to start the Department of Refits with of one of the dice on the Governor-A refit project? We've got 3 different refit projects now in Military so I think it's just more dice efficient now to do that, and it even contributes to the Governors.
 
aledeth said:
@Shadows Any chance you'd be willing to start the Department of Refits with of one of the dice on the Governor-A refit project? We've got 3 different refit projects now in Military so I think it's just more dice efficient now to do that, and it even contributes to the Governors.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I dunno, I think that would need to be a thread thing. Would folks be interested in us losing ~80 progress on Gov-As this turn in favor of ~90 progress on 3 different refit projects starting next turn? I don't personally much care. I just know (most) folks are loathe to give up dice.
 
AntiSanity said:
But then there's a problem with the new armor composites and particle shield devs that have not been developed and aren't likely to be just refit into the vehicles. I'd like to solve that issue by concurrently developing particle shields and new armor simultaneously with the new platforms. We've seen in the past that concurrent tech and platform devs will allow for the techs to be put into the platforms. So that's what I'm doing to prevent the platforms from being pushed off.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Those previous cases were only when the tech finished development the same turn, I believe. Your plan significantly risks the platforms getting developed without shields nor alien armor.
 
Shadows said:
I dunno, I think that would need to be a thread thing. Would folks be interested in us losing ~80 progress on Gov-As this turn in favor of ~90 progress on 3 different refit projects starting next turn? I don't personally much care. I just know (most) folks are loathe to give up dice.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I see several plans going for it, but totally fair to want group input.

[x] Plan Chippin' In
 
I really don't see the point in deciding whether or not to use Inferno Gel based on whether it makes you icky or not. Because, well, what's the difference between burned to death and killed in seconds at most from the many Ion, Laser, and other Incendiary weapons we have? For all of them it kills at the same speed, the effects are similar enough if different in method, and the person they are used on is dead all the same. All of those weapons are illegal and using them a war crime in the real world (Treaties about not militarizing space and general Incendiary weapons and while lasers like NOD and GDI use aren't directly mentioned afaik would still be banned from other treaties) but because the real world doesn't have Sci-Fi laser weapons or Ion cannons using them is fine here? Why bother moralizing the Inferno Gel but not the others?

If there are other projects that are more impactful that can be done instead of Inferno Geland choosing not to do it I don't mind and if you just don't like Infernal Gel regardless that's just a happy coincidence as far as I'm concerned but if the primary reason to not do Inferno Gel is because you don't like it and that it would be a war crime IRL why not share that complaint with every other weapon GDI regularly use that would also classify as a War Crime?

I know that this is a minor thing that isn't a big deal for most of the thread but seeing it come up near every time Inferno Gel comes up has annoyed me.
 
Regarding inferno - I think it's worth pointing out that it goes away Q3 and it's currently only Q1. Plan Chippin in kicks the can down the road one last time, but it doesn't block it off that I can see.

It'll be easier for it to win next turn, when we've already done something about this crazy glut of (tech) projects.
 
Last edited:
Shadows said:
Would folks be interested in us losing ~80 progress on Gov-As this turn in favor of ~90 progress on 3 different refit projects starting next turn?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Eh, personally for me, not this turn. We've still got some shiny tech and platforms that we're probably going to do over the next few turns, and I view the Gov-A refits as a higher priority than the other two refit projects.
 
[X] Plan Give Me Science!

Edit: switched vote from New Age of Refining to Give Me Science!
 
Last edited:
Shadows said:
I dunno, I think that would need to be a thread thing. Would folks be interested in us losing ~80 progress on Gov-As this turn in favor of ~90 progress on 3 different refit projects starting next turn? I don't personally much care. I just know (most) folks are loathe to give up dice.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm fine with waiting. That said, I think that the munitions department applied the turn it was activated for all ready-to-deploy munitions projects (i.e. ones that already had been developed).
 
Shadows said:
I dunno, I think that would need to be a thread thing. Would folks be interested in us losing ~80 progress on Gov-As this turn in favor of ~90 progress on 3 different refit projects starting next turn? I don't personally much care. I just know (most) folks are loathe to give up dice.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm flexible. Governor-A is going to be a multiple-turn project anyway.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top