Ace of Scarabs
Mechanoid Pilot
- Location
- Singapore
[X] Plan New Age of Refining
The problem with that argument is it just really serves to highlight the Open Hand as former NOD and makes politically attacking them trivial.No they just don't want GDI to use the same terrible weapon as they have seen firsthand how it works.
I really don't think that going from a 72% chance to a 98% chance is really worthwhile - it would give us a increased chance of success, by 26 percentage points, but at the opportunity cost of failing to complete/work on other important issues.Seems fairly solid, plus getting both Xenotech and Liquid-T refining up and running as soon as possible seems like it'll give us the biggest payoff in the long run.
While Shadows is an excellent planmaker, I do disagree with them on a single point. Specifically, I don't believe that developing Next Generation Armored Support Vehicles right now is the right choice. Particle Shields and Advanced Armor Composites both promise incredible improvements in survivability once developed, which will be crucial for the next-gen APCs and IFVs. The blurb even says:
Like, we might not jam xenotech defenses on the Guardian replacement, but at the very least the vehicle designed *specifically* to carry infantry through the heaviest concentrations of Nod firepower deserves to have these things. This is especially crucial since Ithillid has confirmed on the discord that shields *cannot* be easily refit, so we want them built in from the start:
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(which is not to say that it's impossible, but I imagine it'd be a major effort rather than something we could quickly roll out)
Similarly, while not confirmed, I imagine that rebuilding a tank with all-new armor will not be a trivial task, so I'd like to get those two techs integrated from the get-go. As such, I've created a variants of Shadows' plan which switches the NGASV die on to Particle Shields to guarantee completion this turn so that next turn we can do the devs if we so desire.
(And to be clear, this won't be a repeat of the Escort Carriers / Wingman Drones debacle where we end up waiting a half-dozen turns or whatever; the moment armor and shields finish (which will in all likelihood be next turn) we should be good to do NGASV and NGAFV, since by and large the other techs can be relatively easily included in upgrades).
[X] Plan Chippin' In and Making Sure
-[X] Infrastructure (5/5 Dice, +27 bonus, 95R)
--[X] Advanced Tunnel Borer Development 0/80 1 die 15R 68%
--[X] Offshore Tiberium Harvester Stations (Phase 4) 0/150 2 dice 40R 68%
--[X] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 7) (93/250) 2 dice 40R 63%
-[X] Heavy Industry (5/5 Dice + 3 FD, +34 bonus, 150R)
--[X] North Boston Chip Fabricator (Phase 5) (406/1805) 4 dice 60R
--[X] Second Generation Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 4) 117/270 2 dice 40R 77%
--[X] Second Generation Repulsorplate Factories (365/525) 2 dice 50R 72%
-[X] Light Industry (4/4 Dice, +24 bonus, 110R)
--[X] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 4) 523/610 3 dice 90R 100%
--[X] High Energy Capacitors Development (0/60) 1 die 20R 90%
-[X] Agriculture (6/6 Dice, +29 bonus, 40R)
--[X] Reforestation Campaign Preparations (Phase 1) (737/805) 4 dice 20R 100%
--[X] Strategic Food Stockpile Construction (Phase 5) (78/170) 1 dice 10R 53%
--[X] Organ Farming Programs (0/120) 1 dice 10R 30%
-[X] Tiberium (7 Dice, +39 bonus, 210R)
--[X] Enhanced Harvest Tiberium Spikes (145/180) 1 dice 20R 100% -5PS
--[X] Coordinated Abatement Programs (Phase 3) (93/175) 1 dice 25R 72%
--[X] Xenotech Tiberium Refinery Development (0/180) 3 dice 105R 100%
--[X] Forgotten Experimentation (0/260) 2 dice 60R 10%
-[X] Orbital (7/7 dice + 2 FD + Erewhon, +34 bonus, 180R)
--[X] Spaceport Bay (0/295) 4 dice 80R 91%
--[X] Species Restoration Bay (Stage 1) (0/255) 3+E dice 60R 71%+
--[X] GDSS Shala (868/975) 2 dice 40R 99%
-[X] Services (4/4 Dice, +32 bonus, 170R)
--[X] Primitive Prototype Portal Construction (279/400) 1 dice 100R 40%
--[X] Cosmetic Biosculpting (184/345) 1 dice 30R 5%
--[X] Civil Sensory Augmentics Development (0/120) 1 dice 20R 36%
--[X] Civil Prosthetics Development (0/120) 1 dice 20R 36%
-[X] Military (7/7 dice + 1FD + AA, +31 bonus, 175 R)
--[X] Binary Propellant Exploration (0/60) 1 dice 10R 92%
--[X] Advanced Armor Composites (0/80) 1 dice 15R 72%
--[X] Orca Wingmen Drone Deployment (Phase 2) (196/215) AA die 20R 97%
--[X] Particle Shield Development (0/120) 2 dice 50R 95%
--[X] Governor-A Deployment (Refits) (0/350) 2 dice 40R
--[X] Island-Class Assault Ship Deployment (70/135) 1 dice 25R 82%
--[X] Modular Rapid Assembly Prototype Factory (102/265) 1 die 20R
-[X] Bureaucracy (4 Dice, +29 bonus)
--[X] Predictive Modeling Management (-10 Capital Goods)
--[X] Transfer Funding to InOps (-60R)
--[X] Administrative Assistance (Military)
Yeah…it would be as if, to get a bit political and real world (sorry in advance) Free Russia was complaining about the dangers of UXOs and cluster munitions being used by Ukraine…while Russia continued to use said cluster munitions and UXOs on Ukraine Sure they have a point but is Free Russia really the best person to call that shit out?The problem with that argument is it just really serves to highlight the Open Hand as former NOD and makes politically attacking them trivial.
'Don't use Inferno Gel, we know it does terrible things to people'
'Because you and your associates used to use it on people'
Moreover, it's likely Open Hand's argument is rooted in is based off how NOD deployed Inferno Gel rather than how GDI intends to use it in largely anti material and anti-armor roles. Not even the IF is saying we should try and clear apartment blocks with the stuff. I'm not saying there's no valid reason to argue against Inferno Gel, or that we need it- I'm saying the worst people to advocate for banning it are the Open Hand. FFS I think the head of the Open Hand party is former Black Hand.
Wasn't sure if I could convince you to go for it, since IIRC on the discord you've been thinking about doing NGASV this turn for a while. Still, sorry I guess?
I mean in the Open Hand's defense they're not actively using the inferno gel themselves (given they're a political party), but given the fact the Open Hand is predicated on not being a complete ideological and religious rejection of NOD, it does seem a questionable position to stake your colors to the mast over. Even more so than if they were just former NODYeah…it would be as if, to get a bit political and real world (sorry in advance) Russia was complaining about the dangers of UXOs and cluster munitions being used by Ukraine…while they continued to use said cluster munitions and UXOs on Ukraine Sure they have a point but is Russia really the best person to call that shit out?
Missing an X here.--[ ] Xenotech Tiberium Refinery Development (Tech) (New) 0/180 2 dice 70R 72%
The Open Hand has never, to my knowledge, denied that some of them and their associates have done horrible things during the war. Both sides have. Open Hand is about forgiving said actions in order to move towards a brighter future. Plus, there's not a whole lot of reason to actually argue against the banning of Inferno Gel. Not unless you're a far fringe member of IF, and the danger for mainstream politicians of being tainted by association means those arguments don't spread beyond said fringe.'Don't use Inferno Gel, we know it does terrible things to people'
'Because you and your associates used to use it on people'
Unless Nod suddenly starts using large amounts of automated vehicles, any use of Inferno Gel by GDI will involve people dying horrifically painful deaths. That's not something that can be dodged around.Moreover, it's likely Open Hand's argument is rooted in is based off how NOD deployed Inferno Gel rather than how GDI intends to use it in largely anti material and anti-armor roles. Not even the IF is saying we should try and clear apartment blocks with the stuff. I'm not saying there's no valid reason to argue against Inferno Gel, or that we need it- I'm saying the worst people to advocate for banning it are the Open Hand. FFS I think the head of the Open Hand party is former Black Hand.
I'd say it's more like if a group of former Russian soldiers who defected in no small part because of Russia's use of UXOs and cluster munitions argued against them.Yeah…it would be as if, to get a bit political and real world (sorry in advance) Russia was complaining about the dangers of UXOs and cluster munitions being used by Ukraine…while they continued to use said cluster munitions and UXOs on Ukraine Sure they have a point but is Russia really the best person to call that shit out?
Mostly concerned with the fact that it is a low-priority low impact tech in a list full of VERY HIGH PRIORITY VERY HIGH IMPACT techs. Like shields. Or alien materials. Or (more) mobile MCVs.
Just a heads up, Shadows has edited their original plan to integrate my suggestion, so there's no longer any need to vote for this version.[X] Plan Chippin' In and Making Sure
Even for someone who dislikes perfection-trapping as much as I do, this decision makes sense.
Fixed, thanks!
no you're fineWasn't sure if I could convince you to go for it, since IIRC on the discord you've been thinking about doing NGASV this turn for a while. Still, sorry I guess?
I object , the army wants new gear now not in another 15 years , our tanks are already better than what Nod has to offer so the next gen is gonna be even better so their isn't enough return for us to waste more time to make them even better by waiting more , third our tanks while good are long in the teeth so best replace them now while we have the advantage rather than later when they are obsolete and at a disadvantage , forth its gonna take a long time to build and refit the needed factories and even longer for those factories to produce the needed tanks so the sooner we get started the better rather than do the same mistake as we did with the navy , we can still give them all the new stuff later via upgrades and their is always the generation of tanks after this once we get mass effect tech to stuff in all the toysWhile Shadows is an excellent planmaker, I do disagree with them on a single point. Specifically, I don't believe that developing Next Generation Armored Support Vehicles right now is the right choice. Particle Shields and Advanced Armor Composites both promise incredible improvements in survivability once developed, which will be crucial for the next-gen APCs and IFVs. The blurb even says: