- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Domesticated farm animals are their own thing, separate from trying to restore/preserve natural biospheres.
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
The way things are going, I wonder if there will even be another Director. GDI has gotten very awkward about technically being an unaccountable military dictatorship, and they might well grow out of it if the perceived need for a Director falls any further. We've already reached the point of "well, the position technically can order anything and have all of parliament arrested in the name of global security, but in practical terms would immediately start a civil war if that power were actually exercised or possibly even if it were just threatened".
If Director continues to be the form of GDI's executive, it could go either way. You get a Starbound-influenced Director in there and they're just going to give us a rubber stamp that says "SPACE AND/OR SCIENCE: YES" on it. You get an Initiative First-influiencd Director...let's hope it doesn't come to that.
I think it's hard to argue against Seo's results, occasional exploding mountain aside. It may well be having an effect on the public too - if I were trying to track the "mad science vote", Starbound's explosive growth isn't a bad sign.
- Location
- Wall Gazing
Thank you for pointing that out, yeah looks like I hadn't updated the individual counts for Processing Plants, Coordinated Abatement, and Shala.
The 2Gen Repulsor Plates are a very important development for Tiberium Refining, Orbital and Military, but it is not explicitly required for anything this plan.
Something I would like to bring up is the Labor crunch mentioned in the turn post. We currently have 1 spare Labor beyond what our Plan Goals require. The current projects, beyond our Plan goals, that require Labor are:
-Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry (Phase 4-5): 4 Labor
-2Gen Repulsor Plate Factories: 2 Labor (In Progress)
-BZ Aquaponics Bays (Phase 6-8): 3 Labor
-Dairy Ranches (Phase 3): 2 Labor
-Railgun Munitions Factories (Phase 3): 1 Labor (Munitions Department)
-GFZA (Set 2) (Phase 5-6): 4 Labor
-Island Class Assault Ship Deployment: 2 Labor (In Progress)
-Modular Rapid Assembly Prototype Factory: 1 Labor (In Progress)
Of these we are currently building the 2Gen Repulsors, the Island Class Deployment and the MRASP. Additionally the Railgun Munitions Factories will auto complete from the Munitions Department next turn. That is a total of 6 Labor beyond what our Plan goals require, meaning we will be negative on Labor by the end of the Plan unless some new Labor boosts come in.
That may be refugees from the Karachi Campaign, new medical developments, further improvements to the education system, or long term Orbital development and population growth. With the University Program complete, this calculation will change, but the degree of which remains to be seen.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
(1160+60)/1380 R budget
94+5+20+1-5-5-5 = 105 Political Support
6/6 Free dice (3 Heavy Industry, 2 Tiberium, 1+E Orbital)
[] Draft Plan Attempting to Brace for Impact
-[] Infrastructure (5/5 Dice, +27 bonus, 80 R)
--[] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 7) 93/250 (2 dice, 40 R) (63% chance)
--[] Rail Network Construction Campaigns (Phase 6) 108/245 (2 dice, 30 R) (78% chance)
--[] Emergency CRP Installations (Phase 2) 31/70 (1 die, 10 R) (100% chance) (-5 PS)
-[] Heavy Industry (5/5 Dice + 3 Free Dice, +34 bonus, 150 R)
--[] 2nd Gen. CC Fusion Plants (Phase 4) 117/270 (2 dice, 40 R) (73% chance)
--[] Second Generation Repulsorplate Factories 365/525 (2 dice, 50 R) (72% chance)
--[] North Boston Chip Fabricator (Phase 5) 406/1805 (4 dice, 60 R) (4/16.5 median)
-[] Light Industry (4/4 Dice, +29 bonus, 120 R)
--[] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 4) 523/610 (4 dice, 120 R) (100% chance) (+5 PS)
-[] Agriculture (6/6 dice, +29 bonus, 60 R)
--[] Reforestation Campaign Preparations (Phase 1) 737/805 (2 dice, 10 R) (100% chance)
--[] Strategic Food Stockpile Construction (Phase 5+6) 78/320 (2 dice, 20 R) (98% Phase 5, 5% Phase 6)
--[] Laboratory Meat Deployment (Phase 1) 0/170 (2 dice, 30 R) (54% chance)
-[] Tiberium (7/7 dice + 2 Free dice, +39 bonus, 230 R)
--[] Coordinated Abatement Programs (Phase 3) 93/175 (1 die, 25 R) (73% chance)
--[] Red Zone Containment Lines (Stage 6) 54/180 (1 die, 25 R) (29% chance)
--[] Enhanced Harvest Tiberium Spikes 145/180 (1 die, 20 R) (100% chance) (-5 PS)
--[] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 11) 4/165 (2 dice, 40 R) (78% chance)
--[] Improved Tiberium Containment Facilities Construction (Phase 2) 11/90 (1 die, 20 R) (76% chance)
---[] Having more silos means more flexibility in case of disruptions to transport and refinery infrastructure
--[] IHG Tiberium Processing Plants (Stage 1) 0/150 (2 dice, 70 R) (85% chance)
---[] We really can't count on the xenotech plants showing up before the end of the Plan
---[] And we do need to increase total processing capacity as a Plan target
---[] And building these now gives us more redundancy in case something gets nuked
--[] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment (BZ-1 Northern Europe) 0/75 (1 die, 30 R) (80% chance) (+1 PS)
-[] Orbital (7/7 Dice + 1 Free dice + EREWHON!!!, +34 bonus, 180 R)
--[] GDSS Shala (Phase 5) 868/975 (2 dice, 40 R) (99% chance) (+20 PS)
--[] Species Restoration Bay 0/255 (2+E dice, 60 R) (43% chance)
--[] Spaceport Bay 0/295 (3 dice, 60 R) (42% chance)
--[] High Density Housing Bay 0/295 (1 die, 20 R) (1/3 median)
-[] Services (4/4 Dice, +35 bonus, 190 R, -5 PS)
--[] Primitive Prototype Portal Construction 279/400 (1 die, 100 R) (40% chance)
--[] Autodoc Systems Deployment 0/280 (3 dice, 90 R) (44% chance) (-5 PS)
---[] Good for disaster response.
-[] Military (7/7 Dice + AA Die, +31 bonus, 150 R)
--[] Orca Wingmen Drone Deployment (Phase 2) 196/215 (AA die, 20 R) (97% chance)
--[] Stealth Disruptor Deployment 0/160 (2 dice, 30 R) (67% chance)
--[] Next-Generation Armored Support Vehicles 0/80 (1 die, 25 R) (72% chance)
--[] Island-Class Assault Ship Deployment 70/135 (1 die, 25 R) (82% chance)
--[] Governor-A Deployment 0/??? (1 die, 20 R) (???)
--[] Inferno Gel Development (Tech) 0/40 (1 die, 10 R) (100% chance)
--[] Modular Rapid Assembly Prototype Factory 102/265 (1 die, 20 R) (1/2 median)
---[] Forward Outlook: I hope for 2064 to be a space-navy year. Set 2 Ground Force Zone Armor also a priority. WISH there was room to cram in Zrbite guns this year, but not sure there really is.
-[] Bureaucracy (4/4 Dice, +29 bonus, -60 RpT)
--[] Administrative Assistance: Orca Wingman Drones
--[] Transfer Funding to InOps 1 die auto (-60 RpT)
--[] Predictive Modeling Management 1 die auto
This is a draft I threw together, inspired in large part by @Rakuhn 's suggestions for "hardening" projects intended to brace for Karachi (more food stockpiles to support refugees or in case places get nuked, rollout of autodocs, and so on). Other priorities include at least beginning to 'flare off' the Political Support boost we get from Shala and working on Columbia bays.
There is also a heavy tiberium push, spread among many projects, including a BZ-1 inhibitor, finishing the enhanced yield spikes, further vein mines, and construction of silos and refineries. The refineries are a Plan target; I would argue that we cannot count on xenotech refineries becoming available in time to fulfill the Plan target for refinery capacity. Furthermore, the new IHG refineries and silos will give us more flexibility and infrastructure redundancy if al-Isfahani goes nuclear in a big way during the Karachi operations.
It is my opinion that predictive modeling will be in high demand next turn, so while I have some misgivings about the project myself, I am including it out of respect for the anticipated wishes of others.
Obviously some of these projects may be supplanted by other things that become available. Most trivially, we've been directly told that Offshore Tiberium Harvesting may be coming back next turn, and if so it might replace vein mining in the queue. Any of a variety of research projects in Tiberium might replace the vein mines too.
Being able to do animal husbandry in space is fairly important, to put it mildly. In the hopefully unlikely case where we don't get a TCN option, in the long run all hope for Earth animals' survival is going to involve making sure they can cope with a space-based built environment. Cloning small numbers of animals from each of a variety of charismatic species is not going to be enough, and we're going to need to learn a lot about keeping animals healthy indefinitely in space. This is over and above the fact that an enforced vegetarian diet for all humans in space colonies is probably not desirable.
An animal husbandry bay is both about practicing animal husbandry in space and about building up our experience and expertise with space veterinary medicine and animal care in general. It wouldn't be a substitute for a species restoration bay, but we're talking about plans that already stack up three species restoration bays, or at least I am. One can readily argue that at least for now, there is more to be gained by having some diversification than by just building a fourth of something we already have three of.
The beginning of Tib War III is still less than twenty years ago; every voting-age adult in GDI territory remembers it. The strategic pressures of wartime tend to favor a strong executive, and GDI has spent enough time at war that it's going to want the option to fall back on that. Constitutional reforms that limit the power of the director, either during or outside of a state of emergency, seem likely (and may have been going on in the background already). But we're not going to see the post simply abolished.
94+5+20+1-5-5-5 = 105 Political Support
6/6 Free dice (3 Heavy Industry, 2 Tiberium, 1+E Orbital)
[] Draft Plan Attempting to Brace for Impact
-[] Infrastructure (5/5 Dice, +27 bonus, 80 R)
--[] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 7) 93/250 (2 dice, 40 R) (63% chance)
--[] Rail Network Construction Campaigns (Phase 6) 108/245 (2 dice, 30 R) (78% chance)
--[] Emergency CRP Installations (Phase 2) 31/70 (1 die, 10 R) (100% chance) (-5 PS)
-[] Heavy Industry (5/5 Dice + 3 Free Dice, +34 bonus, 150 R)
--[] 2nd Gen. CC Fusion Plants (Phase 4) 117/270 (2 dice, 40 R) (73% chance)
--[] Second Generation Repulsorplate Factories 365/525 (2 dice, 50 R) (72% chance)
--[] North Boston Chip Fabricator (Phase 5) 406/1805 (4 dice, 60 R) (4/16.5 median)
-[] Light Industry (4/4 Dice, +29 bonus, 120 R)
--[] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 4) 523/610 (4 dice, 120 R) (100% chance) (+5 PS)
-[] Agriculture (6/6 dice, +29 bonus, 60 R)
--[] Reforestation Campaign Preparations (Phase 1) 737/805 (2 dice, 10 R) (100% chance)
--[] Strategic Food Stockpile Construction (Phase 5+6) 78/320 (2 dice, 20 R) (98% Phase 5, 5% Phase 6)
--[] Laboratory Meat Deployment (Phase 1) 0/170 (2 dice, 30 R) (54% chance)
-[] Tiberium (7/7 dice + 2 Free dice, +39 bonus, 230 R)
--[] Coordinated Abatement Programs (Phase 3) 93/175 (1 die, 25 R) (73% chance)
--[] Red Zone Containment Lines (Stage 6) 54/180 (1 die, 25 R) (29% chance)
--[] Enhanced Harvest Tiberium Spikes 145/180 (1 die, 20 R) (100% chance) (-5 PS)
--[] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 11) 4/165 (2 dice, 40 R) (78% chance)
--[] Improved Tiberium Containment Facilities Construction (Phase 2) 11/90 (1 die, 20 R) (76% chance)
---[] Having more silos means more flexibility in case of disruptions to transport and refinery infrastructure
--[] IHG Tiberium Processing Plants (Stage 1) 0/150 (2 dice, 70 R) (85% chance)
---[] We really can't count on the xenotech plants showing up before the end of the Plan
---[] And we do need to increase total processing capacity as a Plan target
---[] And building these now gives us more redundancy in case something gets nuked
--[] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment (BZ-1 Northern Europe) 0/75 (1 die, 30 R) (80% chance) (+1 PS)
-[] Orbital (7/7 Dice + 1 Free dice + EREWHON!!!, +34 bonus, 180 R)
--[] GDSS Shala (Phase 5) 868/975 (2 dice, 40 R) (99% chance) (+20 PS)
--[] Species Restoration Bay 0/255 (2+E dice, 60 R) (43% chance)
--[] Spaceport Bay 0/295 (3 dice, 60 R) (42% chance)
--[] High Density Housing Bay 0/295 (1 die, 20 R) (1/3 median)
-[] Services (4/4 Dice, +35 bonus, 190 R, -5 PS)
--[] Primitive Prototype Portal Construction 279/400 (1 die, 100 R) (40% chance)
--[] Autodoc Systems Deployment 0/280 (3 dice, 90 R) (44% chance) (-5 PS)
---[] Good for disaster response.
-[] Military (7/7 Dice + AA Die, +31 bonus, 150 R)
--[] Orca Wingmen Drone Deployment (Phase 2) 196/215 (AA die, 20 R) (97% chance)
--[] Stealth Disruptor Deployment 0/160 (2 dice, 30 R) (67% chance)
--[] Next-Generation Armored Support Vehicles 0/80 (1 die, 25 R) (72% chance)
--[] Island-Class Assault Ship Deployment 70/135 (1 die, 25 R) (82% chance)
--[] Governor-A Deployment 0/??? (1 die, 20 R) (???)
--[] Inferno Gel Development (Tech) 0/40 (1 die, 10 R) (100% chance)
--[] Modular Rapid Assembly Prototype Factory 102/265 (1 die, 20 R) (1/2 median)
---[] Forward Outlook: I hope for 2064 to be a space-navy year. Set 2 Ground Force Zone Armor also a priority. WISH there was room to cram in Zrbite guns this year, but not sure there really is.
-[] Bureaucracy (4/4 Dice, +29 bonus, -60 RpT)
--[] Administrative Assistance: Orca Wingman Drones
--[] Transfer Funding to InOps 1 die auto (-60 RpT)
--[] Predictive Modeling Management 1 die auto
This is a draft I threw together, inspired in large part by @Rakuhn 's suggestions for "hardening" projects intended to brace for Karachi (more food stockpiles to support refugees or in case places get nuked, rollout of autodocs, and so on). Other priorities include at least beginning to 'flare off' the Political Support boost we get from Shala and working on Columbia bays.
There is also a heavy tiberium push, spread among many projects, including a BZ-1 inhibitor, finishing the enhanced yield spikes, further vein mines, and construction of silos and refineries. The refineries are a Plan target; I would argue that we cannot count on xenotech refineries becoming available in time to fulfill the Plan target for refinery capacity. Furthermore, the new IHG refineries and silos will give us more flexibility and infrastructure redundancy if al-Isfahani goes nuclear in a big way during the Karachi operations.
It is my opinion that predictive modeling will be in high demand next turn, so while I have some misgivings about the project myself, I am including it out of respect for the anticipated wishes of others.
Obviously some of these projects may be supplanted by other things that become available. Most trivially, we've been directly told that Offshore Tiberium Harvesting may be coming back next turn, and if so it might replace vein mining in the queue. Any of a variety of research projects in Tiberium might replace the vein mines too.
The thing is that no matter how important we consider species restoration, Shala isn't only or entirely about mashing the "restore species NOW dammit" button as hard as possible. Shala is, after all a testbed for large scale space agriculture.
Being able to do animal husbandry in space is fairly important, to put it mildly. In the hopefully unlikely case where we don't get a TCN option, in the long run all hope for Earth animals' survival is going to involve making sure they can cope with a space-based built environment. Cloning small numbers of animals from each of a variety of charismatic species is not going to be enough, and we're going to need to learn a lot about keeping animals healthy indefinitely in space. This is over and above the fact that an enforced vegetarian diet for all humans in space colonies is probably not desirable.
An animal husbandry bay is both about practicing animal husbandry in space and about building up our experience and expertise with space veterinary medicine and animal care in general. It wouldn't be a substitute for a species restoration bay, but we're talking about plans that already stack up three species restoration bays, or at least I am. One can readily argue that at least for now, there is more to be gained by having some diversification than by just building a fourth of something we already have three of.
I think we would simply see constitutional restrictions on the office of the director.
The beginning of Tib War III is still less than twenty years ago; every voting-age adult in GDI territory remembers it. The strategic pressures of wartime tend to favor a strong executive, and GDI has spent enough time at war that it's going to want the option to fall back on that. Constitutional reforms that limit the power of the director, either during or outside of a state of emergency, seem likely (and may have been going on in the background already). But we're not going to see the post simply abolished.
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Director is not a position that is likely to be banished. IIRC, the Director is selected by and from a body of top level bureaucrats right now, it's far more likely that reforms in the selection process either makes the Director a position selected by and from the legislative body, or from a direct election by the population at large.
Yes
Any experiments that will help species restoration can probably be done better by having another species restoration bay than an animal farm
I can see the argument for having animal husbandry in space, I just find species restoration more important for now.
As for 'we're talking about plans that already stack up three species restoration bays', no? I'm pretty sure the lead plan only builds 2. I want the plan that builds 3 instead of having a husbandry bay
- Location
- Queensland, Australia
Actually I'm near certain we were told here that the Advanced Materials Bay would give us either +STU or STU cost reduction projects. And if not here, then it was on the Discord as part of the firestorms that regularly sweep through there. Though again, as has been said before, if it's said on the Discord that just means it is the current predicted plan, not locked in canon like it is if it's in this thread.
However the Advanced Materials Bay as a whole was something that would increase STU usage. Just one of the side effects where more advanced materials science and materials fabrication mean you get a whole bunch of developments where you are able to spread a single unit of STUs over a wider area. Or alternatively you are able to either so greatly boost performance with existing supplies that it is worth spending more STUs for the same task despite limited quantity of them globally, or you are able to improve the performance of something to the point that what didn't get deemed worthy of augmenting with STUs now is.
An example of that being something like improved synthesis of the focusing crystals we use in our CBLs to the point where miniscule levels of infernium doping in all our military lasers gives a massive performance and so gets asked for. Even if 'true' infernium lasers are a lot more, or if also benefitting from those advancements, ridiculously more powerful and so the military still prefers those for their heavy lasers. On the other hand, we could just spread out the current quantity of STUs assigned to infernium lasers by keeping their performance the same via reducing the amount of infernium going into each 'infernium' heavy laser so the military can make more of them with needing more STUs. But which paths do you think the military would go for if we still had a bunch of STUs yet to be spent?
Income is 1300 RpT + 65R reserve, so the budget is 1365. I explained the change here.
Night_stalker
Slava Ukraini!
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Plan Having Tasted The Fruit, Nothing Shall Be Impossible For Them v2
- Location
- USA
Ehh...
That's not quite saying to do animal husbandry to help species restoration.
It's close.
But saying there could be strong synergy isn't exactly the same as saying to do it because of the potential synergy.
If he said something like doing animal husbandry would help save more species then I would agree with you that a third species restoration bay would be better.
But he was saying animal husbandry would help with dealing with animals in space, which is true as that is that bays explicit purpose, and that knowledge could potentially help species restoration, which is also true.
It's a slight distinction but more species saved was not the actual argument. Dealing with animals in space was.
Don't see any reason to do space cows tbh
[x] Plan space crops science no animals
- [x] High Efficiency Void Crops Bay x1
- [x] Habitation Bay
- [x] Species Restoration Bay x2
- [x] Experimental Crops
- [x] Core Crops Bay
[x] Plan Save the Biosphere, Do Science
- [x] Experimental Crops Bay x2
- [x] High Efficiency Void Crops Bay x1
- [x] Species Restoration Bay x3
[x] Plan space crops science no animals
- [x] High Efficiency Void Crops Bay x1
- [x] Habitation Bay
- [x] Species Restoration Bay x2
- [x] Experimental Crops
- [x] Core Crops Bay
[x] Plan Save the Biosphere, Do Science
- [x] Experimental Crops Bay x2
- [x] High Efficiency Void Crops Bay x1
- [x] Species Restoration Bay x3
Shadows
Sacred Priestess of the Benevolent Dice Gods
- Location
- USS Civilian, DDG-214
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Any veterinarian research that needs to be done in space can be done in space in a restoration bay on the exact same animals you'd put in a Husbandry bay. They, too, are parts of the same biomes we're trying to restore anyway.
You might be surprised how much of farming/ranching is integrated into the biosphere.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I should repeat for the Nth time that yes, the main purpose of an animal husbandry bay is space animal husbandry in general. Which is in my opinion a legitimate function of the station because it's an agricultural research facility, not only Biosphere 3.
And even if there's no such thing as diminishing returns for building more and more species restoration bays, then that would be a quite strong argument.
But at some point we have to recognize: there is going to be a scaling-up period. Figuring out how to restore species and stabilize artificial ecosystems is not going to be an instant process even if we build infinity space within which to do so. If we're already talking about two species restoration bays, we are not necessarily going to just automatically get "50% more of the same" by linearly adding a third, not in the early years.
And in the later years as our program hopefully expands... Well, we can build a dedicated station at that point, because we're talking about events after 2064-65.
If Shala's sole reason for existence was as a species restoration station, then that would be decisive.
And even if there's no such thing as diminishing returns for building more and more species restoration bays, then that would be a quite strong argument.
But at some point we have to recognize: there is going to be a scaling-up period. Figuring out how to restore species and stabilize artificial ecosystems is not going to be an instant process even if we build infinity space within which to do so. If we're already talking about two species restoration bays, we are not necessarily going to just automatically get "50% more of the same" by linearly adding a third, not in the early years.
And in the later years as our program hopefully expands... Well, we can build a dedicated station at that point, because we're talking about events after 2064-65.
The same people who would be pleased by us building three restoration bays instead of two will presumably expect the bays to be used on charismatic wild fauna, not farm animals.
- Location
- his hidden lair
This is being willfully obtuse. Simon isn't saying we should build the farm to better recreate the red macaw, he's saying we should build the farm because holy shit the Earth could die, and then every single restoration bay means fuck all if we don't examine how species function in space.
I don't know how to make it any clearer than the fact that every single animal humans have ever discovered has adapted to an ecosystem that is either gone or could be gone. The species restoration bay is occupied with resurrecting the dead, not in how to keep the living alive in the event of a dead world.
Shadows
Sacred Priestess of the Benevolent Dice Gods
- Location
- USS Civilian, DDG-214
- Pronouns
- She/Her
There is absolutely no reason whatsoever a restoration bay cannot fulfill that role. It is going to be part of how they function regardless.
We're not even talking about learning how to do zero g animal medicine or anything, all our space colonies are built with artificial gravity. The animal husbandry bay is pretty explicit about being a commercial ranch to grow consumer products for market consumption, backing up the concept of "a chicken" just in case the absolute worst happens is presumably already covered by somebody below our level of abstraction. Commercial livestock are going to be the absolute last thing we lose, if only because they're so otherwise useful and widespread across society already.
[X] Plan Animal Space Science
[X] Plan Having Tasted The Fruit, Nothing Shall Be Impossible For Them v2
Yeah I'm just voting for animal husbandry so spacenoids can have a bit more variety than; grain, paste and a lemon on their birthday.
Happy that we're fitting in plenty of species restoration as well!
[X] Plan Having Tasted The Fruit, Nothing Shall Be Impossible For Them v2
Yeah I'm just voting for animal husbandry so spacenoids can have a bit more variety than; grain, paste and a lemon on their birthday.
Happy that we're fitting in plenty of species restoration as well!
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Plan Having Tasted The Fruit, Nothing Shall Be Impossible For Them v2
[X] Plan Flora and Fauna
I have come around to husbandry bay
[X] Plan Flora and Fauna
I have come around to husbandry bay
Shadows
Sacred Priestess of the Benevolent Dice Gods
- Location
- USS Civilian, DDG-214
- Pronouns
- She/Her
They should be getting more variety than that already.
Yes I was being a mote theatrical.