Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

F0lkL0re said:

Hey @Simon_Jester why do you have transferring resources to InOps in your plan? because we did that in Q2.

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My guess would be, to get it done ahead of schedule because we need to do it twice more.

[X] Plan Levitating Up To Boston

[X] Plan Attempting to Have Both Industrial Projects

[X] Plan Attempting to Have Both Industrial Projects
The only problem I have with this plan is not having PMM.

So i will also vote for
[X] Plan: Clear Your Plate (With a Shot of Tiberium)

Even if it doesn't have Island.
From my point of view all the other plans have weird priorities in infrastructure (either too much on archologies or refits) and/or tiberium (no tiberium spike) and sometimes in military.

Edit :
Shadow having done some modification I approve so I add his Plan :
[X] Plan Levitating Up To Boston

While i think that seven dice on a space station is too much and that at least two of these dice should go to a bay like the spaceport bay i think this plan is still the best.
[X] Plan Levitating Up To Boston

[X] Plan Levitating Up To Boston
[X] Plan Portals, Repulsors and Projects
[X] Plan Portals and Processors and Mad Science:
[X]Plan Repulsors are space spending
[X] Plan Portals and Processors and Island Life

[X] Plan Levitating Up To Boston
[X] Plan Light on Labor
[X] Plan Repulsorplates Tiberium Spikes and Islands oh my
[X] Plan Attempting to Have Both Industrial Projects
[X] Plan Portals and Processors and Mad Science:
[X]Plan Repulsors are space spending

Yet another comparison:

Plan Levitating Up To Boston vs Plan Repulsorplates Tiberium Spikes and Islands oh my








Ultimately though, I think that both plans are more or less fine as is, and we'll be well positioned in Q1.

[X]Plan Repulsors are space spending

Also, @Ithillid has requested I do some rollin'....

Sigh... I can never remember. Is it nod then gdi or gdi then nod?

So we either did very well or they killed another one.

Unless this has nothing to do with assassinations and is a election roll or something.

[X] Plan Repulsorplates Tiberium Spikes and Islands oh my

[X] Plan Repulsorplates Tiberium Spikes and Islands oh my

So, looking at the frontrunners, as of when I started writing this, and noting that I haven't read any of the other commentary yet...

With 22 votes,
F0lkL0re 's Plan Repulsorplates Tiberium Spikes and Islands oh my

With 21 votes (including mine),
_Shadows_ ' Plan Levitating Up To Boston .

With 18+2 votes,
My Plan Attempting to Have Both Industrial Projects, which for some reason counts Khop and Devilblackbook's votes separately

Huh. Damn near neck and neck.

Major points of difference:

Infrastructure
F0lkl0re has four dice on arcologies and one on shuttles. By contrast, I have three dice on arcologies, one on shuttles, and one on fortress towns; Shadows has three dice on arcologies and two on housing refits. My own feeling is that three dice on arcologies (88% chance of success) is enough, and that pushing the housing refits aggressively may cause some bad feeling among the public, because it looks like most of the people who live in the old commieblocks these days are at least comfortable there. Personally, I oppose forcing them to move and demolishing their commieblocks right before Election Day. Finishing the arcologies first and doing the refits second will, I personally think, help soften the blow. But that's me.

Heavy Industry
I have three Free dice on Heavy Industry for a total of eight dice, balanced with 2/4/2 on fusion/repulsorplates/North Boston, respectively. F0lkl0re likewise has eight dice, balanced 2/3/3. Shadows took five Free dice for Heavy Industry, balancing them 2/4/4. My plan is, plain and simple, the least pushy on North Boston, but ties for Shadows on repulsorplate progress.

My hope is to get the project mostly done this quarter and have a relatively easy time being sure to finish it next quarter. On the other hand, the cost is that we're a die or two farther from finishing North Boston, though I confidently hope that with my plan we could catch up in 2064Q1. There's a real advantage, I think to doing most of the dice for a project in the first turn, then figuring out "so, will we need two, three, or four to finish this" in the second turn depending on how lucky the first roll was. The fewer dice you roll up front, the more "swing" there is in the possible results for the second turn, making it harder to assign dice confidently in my opinion.

Agriculture
I have one die on mechanization to finish it and five dice on reforestation. F0lkl0re has one die on mechanization, four dice on reforestation, and one die on spider cotton. Shadows has six dice on reforestation and an AA die on the mechanization project, easily enough to give an 89% chance of completion. Personally, if you think one of these is significantly better than another, go for it. I don't feel a huge difference.

Tiberium
All three frontrunners agree to spend two dice on Enhanced Harvest Tiberium Spikes, for the pure research and hopes of improving inhibitor technology if nothing else, and possibly also finding ways to "vacuum up" deep tiberium deposits by pulling them towards the surface.

Shadows and F0lkl0re mostly agree on the rest, splitting the remaining five Tiberium dice between refinery refits, coordinated abatement, and vein mining. Well, in F0lkl0re's case just the first two, giving a 3/2/0 split. In Shadows' case, it's a 2/2/1 split, so there's some vein mining.

My plan is the odd one out here. I skip the refinery refits entirely and work with two dice on Red Zone Containment Lines on the grounds that I want both the Red Zone abatement and the +RpT. I also peel away one of the dice everyone else allocates to coordnated abatement, and thus have two dice for vein mining. This balance of actions produces a higher likelihood of getting more income, and probably works out about the same for purposes of Red Zone abatement, but continues to move a bit gradually on the Coordinated Abatement project, which I feel is something best done slowly over time.

Orbital
Significant differences here. Shadows and F0lkl0re spend a full die on Columbia and are nearly certain to finish it. I put Erewhon on it and have only a 57% chance of completion- the way I see it, there's no need to push extra-hard to just throw ourselves over the line into Political Support overflow if Shala won't be done until 2064Q1 anyway, as it most likely will not.

I have five dice on Shala, for no more than a 1% chance of completion. F0lkl0re has 5+AA dice and estimates a 4% chance (I think he's wrong and it's 9%). Shadows goes in a bit more aggressively with a 6+AA dice lineup and expects a 62% chance of phase completion; my math has it at 47%.

Shadows' plan pushing Shala so hard makes it make more sense to put a full die on Columbia, because we'd feel really silly if Shala finished this turn and Columbia didn't. Quite respectable. My one point of fretting is that that's about the same level of Shala investment that started to get us pushback for rushing construction on Columbia... and we don't have the hospital bay yet.

Speaking of which, Shadows puts 1+E dice into the hospital bay, with an estimated 39% chance of completion (I think she's lowballing here, I make it out to be 82%). F0lkl0re and I put two dice into it, for a 98% chance of completion. Given my estimate of Shadows' chance of success, this is a very respectable part of her plan, if you ask me. Good enough.

Because F0lkl0re and I both have more dice left over NOT working on the core stations and less investment in Heavy Industry, we invest in the spaceport bay as well, to the tune of 2+E dice (he says 12%, I call it 17%) for him and 3 dice (I say 42%) for me. This is a significant difference in the plans. Basically, Shadows has a reasonable chance of finishing both core stations by surging Shala harder than we do, while F0lkl0re is likely to finish only Columbia with Shala waiting until next turn, and I have close to 50/50 on Columbia but am confident of finishing both stations next turn. The tradeoff is that Shadows doesn't start the spaceport bay, while F0lk0ore and I make major progress on it. But there are good reasons to take that approach.

Services
Shadows, F0lkl0re, and me all come CLOSE to agreeing on a 2/1/1 split of dice on portals/library enhancement/university updates. The only difference is that I swap in an AA die on the universities (literally one point from autocompletion) and use the freed-up Services die to make a bit more progress on Cosmetic Biosculpting.

Military
Okay, LOT of differences here. I'm just going to list projects by numbers of dice, first:


Compressing the list to the points of difference simplifies matters a bit.

Me
2 Island Class Assault Ship Deployment
1 Stealth Disruptor Deployment
1 Unmanned Support Ground Vehicle Deployment

Shadows
1 Governor A Development
1 Island Class Assault Ship Deployment
1 Modular Rapid Assembly Prototype Factory
1 Transorbital Fighter Development

F0lkl0re
1 Binary Propellant Exploration (Tech)
1 Transorbital Fighter Development (Platform)
1 Island-Class Assault Ship Deployment
1 Unmanned Support Ground Vehicle Deployment

Personally, I prefer to consolidate on deployment and want to push the Island rollout to make sure the rug doesn't get yanked out from under us by the Navy if there's something passive-aggressive going on here. Also, I'm hoping to test prototype stealth disruptors in action at Karachi if possible, still; that's a potentially transformational tech we've been leaving on the table for a long time. This guides my decisions. The way I see it, the transorbital fighter development project won't lead to deployment for at least a few more turns, and the other developments in general are just not super-urgent issues that I would prioritize over deployment over existing major techs.

Bureaucracy
F0lkl0re has an AA die on Columbia, a 'consoom' trade deal with Nod, and the powerful -10 Capital Goods Predictive Modeling action. Shadows has two AA dice, one on Shala and one on farm mechanization. I have an AA die on the universities, cash to InOps, and the same trade deal as F0lkl0re.

One side effect of the interactions in Shadows' plan is that we're more likely to wind up over our Political Support cap in 2064Q1. She's nearly certain to bring in +10 Political Support from Columbia and has around a 50/50 chance of bringing in +20 more from Shala, but only 'flares off' -10 on the enhanced spikes. F0lkl0re and me spend -15 Political Support because of the trade deal being factored in, and are relatively less likely to bring in the big blobs of points from the stations.

Derpmind said:

Let's say we have to do this project and three more before Portals get where we want them to be. That's four projects total. If we take 4 turns to slowly complete each Portal project, then that's 16 turns total to do them all. (Plus the fixed amount of waiting times between being given each project.) Whereas if we prioritize working on Portals and take 2 turns to do each, that'll be only 8 turns total - an entire 2 years faster. Since it is a victory condition and we're racing the end of the world here, I'd say that makes reducing the wait for functional Portals more important than anything else.

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To be fair, even if we get portals usable, it's going to take a tremendous amount of other infrastructure to turn them into a viable win condition, given how power-hungry they clearly are.

Nottheunmaker said:

I sort of agree? All the other Shala bays are better, for sure. But we've got seven bays, so we can have one of everything. Unless there's particular bays you want two of? Because I made my thoughts on that known, but nobody seemed interested. And I don't know which bays we even can get more of.

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I'm sorry, I don't respond to literally everything, but to sum up:

Personally, unless it turns out to be an important "part of this complete breakfast" for purposes of hitting our population target, I'd rather have two of something actually agricultural than one habitat bay. I don't know which thing I want, but it's definitely going to be one of them. Species preservation, maybe, for instance. Not sure.

Nottheunmaker said:

I get that, but I'd rather just get the most out of each dice.

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Well, this is one of those natural points of disagreement. Sometimes, completing something on time matters and a small-to-medium risk of wasting a die is accepted as part of the cost of doing business. Sometimes, only efficiency matters and projects take as long as they take. In this case, well, I've already said my piece; it's a matter of whether the hospital bay is urgently needed or not.

Rakuhn said:

Anyways, last night I did the math on moving free dice from Fusion to Bergen next turn.

Even if we took a maximalist (and unrealistic) position on what next gen fusion could look like, it's not worth it.

Basically, it'd cost ~12 Energy. A maximalist next gen Fusion (which again, is unrealistic) could get us +13 Energy per phase, but it still takes ~2.5 dice per Fusion phase. So that's a net loss to accelerate next gen fusion by half a turn.
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That said, while it's not worthwhile to shift Free Dice to LCI to accelerate next gen Fusion, once Bergen 5 is within range of completing it may be worthwhile to hold off on Fusion investment for a turn or two.

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Ehhh. I'm pretty skeptical of the idea that it's going to improve things by enough to matter much. A one-turn pause in building fusion plants so we can push ahead to get a few more Energy points per phase that much sooner doesn't feel very impressive.

And honestly I'm not even sure we get a third-generation fusion design with Bergen Phase 5. I don't remember the QM saying anything about it, and Bergen Phase 5 doesn't seem to me to be so radically much more productive than what we had when we designed the second-generation plants that I expect "leaps and bounds" improvements in capabilities from integrating more superconductors into the design, even if there are such designs to be had. I don't think we're going to get any big jumps until we've had a few years to gather more operating experience with the second generation plants and/or build up an STU surplus large enough that people can seriously consider using it in ways that drastically enhance performance... and reaching that point would likely also take a few years.

Rakuhn said:

So, Karachi prep thoughts for Q1 and Q2.

Infra. 10 dice available.
[ ] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 3)
A final and most significant step, prioritizing even more leopards for the suborbital role will make it so that GDI can establish a regular network of flights, and create efficiencies of scale rather than brute forcing the problem. While there are significant limits imposed by the turnaround time of a leopard class fusioncraft, there are also significant advantages.
(Progress 27/150: 25 resources per die) (+8 Logistics)
-Critical. We want that last bit of interconnection.

[ ] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 7)
The last pair of Fortress Town waves will focus heavily on preparing a more rigid defensive line, albeit one that is in many cases tens or hundreds of kilometers deep. Positioned to dominate the surrounding areas, these towns are intended to provide the base for future bands of defensive fortifications.
(Progress 93/250: 20 resources per die) (+4 Housing)
-High. We want to be able to sandbag Nod if they decide to counterinvade while we're busy with the Shah.

[ ] Rail Network Construction Campaigns (Phase 6)
Further work on the rail networks will be focused primarily on preparing the ground for exploitation of the interior, especially in light of the pushes into the Red Zones and creating new environs for Initiative exploitation.
-Med. More rails mean more opportunity to act and react, and make it easier to get people and goods where they need to be. And if we're going to be facing strategic strikes, then logistics becomes even more critical.

[ ] Emergency Caloric Reclamation Processor Installations (Phase 2)
With a first wave of Caloric Reclamation Processors built and deployed, a second wave will not be too difficult. However, it is likely to result in political pushback, especially without further expansions to strategic food stockpiles.
(Progress 31/70: 10 resources per die) (+5 Food in reserve) (-5 Political Support)
-Low. I think a lot of our assets from the first wave will be deployed directly to Karachi. Building a second phase to allow us to maintain the mobility would be nice, but not a good investment compared to more YZ FT, or Rail Networks. I could see a single die being put in it in Q2, depending on what the CoS are on the other Infra phases.

HI. 10 dice available.
Already handled by DAE and Distributed HI departments. Just need to continue plodding away at Fusion.

LCI. 8 dice available.
Partly handled by our Distributed Consumer Gooods department. Department of Distributed Manufacturers is too little, too late.

Agri. 12 dice available.
[ ] Strategic Food Stockpile Construction (Phase 5)
While localized caches are useful, more central positioning and expansion of existing larger stockpiles will be critical for allowing GDI to centralize refugee populations and continue to offer key services.
(Progress 78/170: 10 resources per die) (+2 Food in Reserve, -3 Food)
-High. The key here isn't the food reserve, it's the narrative benefit from being able to handle refugee populations. We'll hopefully be getting a lot of refugees immigrating due to Karachi. And we might end up with internally displaced refugees if the Shah is successful. It does help that this will be something that we'll need to handle future tiberium mutation anyways, so it's not solely a short term benefit. If we get confirmation that more phases will continue to help with refugee processing, I think it'd be worth further investment beyond phase 5.


Tiberium. 14 dice available.
[ ] Coordinated Abatement Programs (Phase 2) (Updated)
While certainly not an easy thing, and with significant security risks to large detachments of Initiative troops, the coordinated abatement projects have been of significant value to the warlords that are participating; they are more willing to both put their own resources in, and do more to dissuade the radical side of the Brotherhood from interfering.
(Progress 88/180: 25 resources per die) (+3 Red Zone Abatement)
-Critical. There are some indications that finishing this will make it less likely for the Bannerjees/Bintang/Yao to interfere.

[ ] IHG Tiberium Processing Plants (Stage 1)
Building a first wave of Improved Hewlett Gardener plants will noticeably increase GDI's supply of Stable Trans-Uranic materials. While significantly more expensive to operate, especially as the last of the kinks in the process are worked out, the wonder materials are enough of a priority to make this worthwhile.
(Progress 0/150: 35 resources per die) (+450 processing capacity) (-4 Energy, -3 Logistics)
-Med. Mostly to be able to reroute tiberium away from the battle zone, but also nice to increase our processing redundancy.

[ ] Improved Tiberium Containment Facilities Construction (Phase 2)
While there is some significant amount of reserve capacity, it is something where more will very rarely hurt, either as a stopgap to allow GDI to build new capacity, or to mitigate damages from Brotherhood or alien attack. It is, however, not an immediate priority, and more investing in precautions against a future that may not come.
(Progress 11/90: 20 resources per die) (+500 Tiberium Reserve)
-Low. I'd rather just get more of the above.

Orbital. 14 dice available.
I don't think any of the bays will have an impact on the war.

Services. 8 dice available.
[ ] Autodoc Systems Deployment
While currently politically complicated and psychologically difficult, the autodoc systems represent the potential for a significant increase in GDI's ability to process injuries. Broadly speaking, these are only going to be found in some of the largest and most capable medical facilities, especially those specialized in wound care, and other forms of traumatic injury. Even so, pushing them out will make people nervous, and give politicians opposed to the Treasury ammunition.
(Progress 0/280: 30 resources per die) (+4 Health, +6 Emergency Health, -3 Capital Goods, -3 Energy) (-5 Political Support)
-Critical. Not just for our troops, or for refugees, but having this in place will make our medical system far more resilient to strategic weapons.

[ ] Regional Hospital Expansions (Phase 2)
While currently, there are few real needs for further expansion in the health sector, the Initiative's population is likely to continue aging, and with the diseases of the old, time of response is critical, as is increasing the automation levels to deal with what is likely to be a sharp decrease in workforce availability in the coming decades.
(Progress 85/270: 25 resources per die) (+4 Health) (-1 Energy, -1 Capital Goods, -1 Labor)
-High. As we saw during the last war, our medical system is going to be put under heavy strain by combat losses and refugees.

Military. 14 dice available.
Most of these won't be deployed in time for the operation.

[ ] ASAT Defense System (Phase 5)
With the final station of the current pattern deployed, it is high time for diversification. Kinetics, lasers, and tactical ion cannons, among other options, are the future of the global network of missile interception platforms, ones that will be more resilient than ever against the threats of the Brotherhood of Nod, and beyond that, act as a defensive screen against further extraterrestrial invasion. (Station)
(Progress 41/425: 20 resources per die)
-Low. More defense against strategic exchange, but I'm not sure it'll have a significant impact given the 4 phases of ASAT and SADN we've already done, and it's a very expensive project.

edit:
It looks like we might actually have Q1, Q2, and Q3 to prepare. So add 50% dice availability.

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Hmmmm. Some very interesting thoughts here! Some very interesting exercises in lateral thinking, and frankly quite insightful. You're making connections I hadn't made about how some of these projects fit together.

Other perks of my plan: it leaves us with a very respectable reserve, so that we can give InOps their ration in Q1 without even remotely infringing on our ability to do things like Portals.

[X] Plan Repulsorplates Tiberium Spikes and Islands oh my

[X] Plan Repulsorplates Tiberium Spikes and Islands oh my

It's not looking like a major issue on this vote, but I'm wondering what the motivation behind inferno gel is - it doesn't seem that useful. Tank warfare is likely headed towards extinction anyway, heretical as that is for C&C.

I do agree that we should try to take care of the plans that are timing out. I still find it kind of disappointing that we never built High Orbit Ion Cannons, now that we know Jupiter is enemy territory.

I'd like to see mass deployment of inhibitors before the end of this plan, it's really been sitting neglected and could have hidden benefits.

Strunkriidiisk said:

Personally, if we're taking up extra -Labour projects going into a crunch, I'd prefer to do repulsorplate factories instead. That's more future-proof than the Islands are.

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Well, I'm actually doing both- at this point, the general vibe of the thread is such that I don't really consider repulsorplates optional.

But yeah, I'm going to be careful from here out about projects that involve -Labor and aren't Plan requirements, beyond ones I'm very, very big on.

Lightwhispers said:

Plan Attempting to Have Both Industrial Projects
-3 dice on Arcologies seems better than 4 dice - 88% chance of completion seems sufficient to me. Not sure fortress towns are needed, but the added defensive depth might help if Krukov gets froggy.
-2/4/2 seems a workable distribution for HI - it gets started on North Boston, while still putting more into Repulsorplates to ensure probable completion next turn.
-I'm not sure about putting 2 dice on Vein Mines - we can probably get by with 1, but 2 doesn't really risk overrunning into completing Stage 11, so it's okay.
-I feel better about overcompletion on the main stations than the bays, so I'm dubious about putting just Erewhon on Columbia.
-I don't like putting 2 dice on Islands- they're not urgent, and we have a chance of completion on 1 die.
-If we don't do PMM, the funds transfer to InOps isn't a terrible idea, but we might want to swap RZ Containment to Deep Red Glacier Mining if we do that.

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In regards to those comments:
1) I think we want to actually build the Phase 7 and possibly Phase 8 fortress towns before we go for Karachi, if practical. This consolidates our defensive frontiers and means we have more ability to redeploy mobile assets to support Karachi (e.g. fighter jets in BZ-4 and BZ-18 can be spending more time ready to counter al-Isfahani's bomber raids and less time swooshing around looking for random light vehicle incursions on the frontier).

2) Okay.

3) Uh... thanks, I think. Personally I think we can't really afford to stop doing vein mining at the moment; there's just too much more +RpT required for the Plan commitments. Chugging along at 1-2 dice per turn until the Doruma analyses make it clear that doing so is unnecessary seems like a good idea to me, especially now that Red Zone MARVs are no longer providing much +RpT

4) The reason I'm putting Erewhon on Columbia is because I don't actually mind waiting until 2064Q1 to finish it in a worst-case scenario, because I don't expect Shala to be finished anyway. Shadows takes the opposite task and kind of rush-job pushes Shala to get a decent completion chance this turn, which in turn makes it more worthwhile to put a full die on Columbia.

5) Again, I'm worried someone will yank the rug out from under us if the project isn't complete. I don't think the chance of completion on one die is high enough to matter; a 12% chance of wasting a die just isn't enough to frighten me.

6) The InOps thing? I think we'll have enough money; it'll be fine. Especially since I don't really plan to need to spend more than one die on portals next turn.

aledeth said:

@Simon_Jester I remember you wondering what the new mobile refinery MARVs would do/cost, and it looks like they are already designed for us, no extra project required. Check the RZ MARV section if you missed them.

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Already found out, participated in the discussion. Cool to see, hoping to do that later in the plan.

F0lkL0re said:

Hey @Simon_Jester why do you have transferring resources to InOps in your plan? because we did that in Q2.

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Lightwhispers said:

My guess would be, to get it done ahead of schedule because we need to do it twice more.

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This.

DarianAmell said:

The only problem I have with this plan is not having PMM.

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Personally I feel like the impact of Natural 1's is overblown a bit, and feel that it adds flavor to the game alongside the Natural 100s. So I don't really feel like the project's worth -10 Capital Goods until we have such a big Capital Goods surplus that it hardly matters. +25 is getting close to where I start considering it, but we don't really have any more big Capital Goods sources coming down the road except for little helpings until 2065, so I'm feeling cautious.

MSH said:

I do agree that we should try to take care of the plans that are timing out. I still find it kind of disappointing that we never built High Orbit Ion Cannons, now that we know Jupiter is enemy territory.

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I'm hoping we get an analogous project with ASAT Phase 5, which apparently unlocks some of our "deploy more orbital defenses" options. It's one of the things I'd really like to do with Military dice left over from Plan commitments if I can.

I'd like to see mass deployment of inhibitors before the end of this plan, it's really been sitting neglected and could have hidden benefits.

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We can hopefully squeeze a few more in. Lately, we've been building them, and also we've been trying to prioritize running up enough of an Energy surplus that losing a phase of old fusion plants isn't a serious setback. Complicates matters.

Simon_Jester said:

4) The reason I'm putting Erewhon on Columbia is because I don't actually mind waiting until 2064Q1 to finish it in a worst-case scenario, because I don't expect Shala to be finished anyway. Shadows takes the opposite task and kind of rush-job pushes Shala to get a decent completion chance this turn, which in turn makes it more worthwhile to put a full die on Columbia.

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Yeah. I have mine set up like this because I think there is a fundamental difference between shock laboring the first three phases of a station (which was our Columbia kerfuffle) and doing a final press when the majority of the station is already complete. I don't think we are terribly likely to run into huge issues with casualties and whatnot for the simple reason that the station is already 4/5ths done, with, presumably, onboard medical facilities having been somewhere in there, and a full hospital half built (and being rapidly finished) nearby if there is an issue.

Shadows said:

Yeah. I have mine set up like this because I think there is a fundamental difference between shock laboring the first three phases of a station (which was our Columbia kerfuffle) and doing a final press when the majority of the station is already complete. I don't think we are terribly likely to run into huge issues with casualties and whatnot for the simple reason that the station is already 4/5ths done, with, presumably, onboard medical facilities having been somewhere in there, and a full hospital half built (and being rapidly finished) nearby if there is an issue.

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Ehh, I'm not sure the medical facilities onboard are anything more than rudimentary at this point.

But I see what you're getting at. There's a reason I voted for your plan. Several of them, even.

Simon_Jester said:

F0lkl0re has 5+AA dice and estimates a 4% chance (I think he's wrong and it's 9%).

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I forgot to check over the numbers for orbital after the update so your probably right there.

Simon_Jester said:

F0lkl0re has an AA die on Columbia

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Urgh yeah I need to correct that since that die is actual on Shala.

Simon_Jester said:

I don't remember the QM saying anything about it,

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The only thing I remember the QM saying about finishing Bergan is that it will result in EM artillery and the proliferation of handheld railguns.

MSH said:

heretical

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[Clutches rosette and whispers] "Heresy!"

Simon_Jester said:

This.

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I would need to go back to when we made the deal with InOps to be sure but I'm half certain that the deal is for 60RPT a year with any more given in said year being a welcomed bonus rather then 4 sets of 60RPT in total.

Simon_Jester said:

Ehh, I'm not sure the medical facilities onboard are anything more than rudimentary at this point.

But I see what you're getting at. There's a reason I voted for your plan. Several of them, even.

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Yeah, I got you.

Note to all: I moved the AA dice off of AgMech and onto University Updates, and took the full dice that was on that and put it on Cosmetic Biosculpting. AgMech received a full dice from Reforestation, which still has an 84% chance to complete.

F0lkL0re said:

I would need to go back to when we made the deal with InOps to be sure but I'm half certain that the deal is for 60RPT a year with any more given in said year being a welcomed bonus rather then 4 sets of 60RPT in total.

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No, I totally am doing this as "a welcome bonus" where I throw them their money faster than they wanted it, because I don't really think we need it and hope that them getting it will help.

I'm confident we can afford it for a variety of reasons, but I've already written a novella or so worth on the discussion already so I'll let that go unless anyone's actually interested in why I think so.

One big way I hope it'll help is that InOps is responsible for monitoring and vetting the refugees, so if we expand their budget maybe we'll be able to see them working in a wider variety of industries or getting cleared to do cool stuff faster.

I do think we want to finish Columbia this turn. Let's take an extreme example, assuming that nothing finishes in orbital this turn and everything is one die away from completion next turn. So:
-1 die Shala
-1 die Columbia
-1 die Spaceports
-1 die Hospitals

That would leave us with 3 orbital dice that we'd have to put into lunar mining, or into Shala bays, neither of which seem to be a priority compared to, or all that helpful for, our Orbital goal?

"Worst" case scenario, only Columbia wouldn't have completed, and we'd have 6 orbital dice in that situation.

Simon_Jester said:

I'd rather have two of something actually agricultural than one habitat bay.

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The description does say it will probably help food production.

Ithillid said:

and even with Shala's high level of automation, more hands have almost always increased farm outputs.

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And with farmers potentially losing jobs because of mechanization, they could go to Shala with its demand for competent farmers. Shrug.

MSH said:

It's not looking like a major issue on this vote, but I'm wondering what the motivation behind inferno gel is - it doesn't seem that useful.

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There are a couple reasons.

It burn political points which we are about to overflow on.

It will most likely unlock a munitions project which we need as many as possible for the department of munitions to chew through.

And it's a captured nod tech analysis. We don't really know what we might get out of it. Most likely a improved weapon or something similar but we don't know for sure and have gotten surprised in the past. A recovered enemy weapon tech is where t-glass came from after all.