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Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

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Ah. That's good, then. I'd been mentally allowing for the reduced number of Red Zone abating projects available, without allowing for the progress we made towards the goal by completing the projects. :p

Though, given that we even have STU MARV construction planned, I think it very likely we'll go for the brass ring, complete the RZ-1/RZ-3 triad, and do both inhibitors anyway... But that may just be my optimism talking.
 
Just wondering, how do people feel about building MARV hubs in the Australia RZ-8 zone? Obviously RZ-1 south would be the first new one, so we can deploy an Inhibitor there. But BZ-9 is the only Blue Zone directly bordering a Red Zone that doesn't have a MARV hub. Plus with YZ-7 pretty much existing only on paper, if we also build one in YZ-6, we can pretty much lock down the entire Australian Subcontinent, and just let it gradually turn blue as the decades go on.
 
Model DC.14F said:
Just wondering, how do people feel about building MARV hubs in the Australia RZ-8 zone? Obviously RZ-1 south would be the first new one, so we can deploy an Inhibitor there. But BZ-9 is the only Blue Zone directly bordering a Red Zone that doesn't have a MARV hub. Plus with YZ-7 pretty much existing only on paper, if we also build one in YZ-6, we can pretty much lock down the entire Australian Subcontinent, and just let it gradually turn blue as the decades go on.
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I'm supportive, though it feels like it would have more impact on global tiberium if we attacked the giant Eurasia/Africa-spanning landmass first by going after RZ 1, 2, and 3.

But if we don't do it within the scope of the Fourth Four Year Plan, we should seriously consider doing it in the Fifth (2066-69).

My own preference is to do the RZ-1 and -3 Red Zone MARV hubs first, then think carefully about whether to mount an attack on RZ-2 or RZ-8; there are pros and cons each way.
 
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I think if we do start building more MARVs we shouldn't spend more than the minimum of Military dice on them. We have so much shit we need in Military, what with them wanting effectively an entire new generation of vehicles that I don't think we should use more dice than we have to on a project that is more useful for economic and abatement purposes than it is for military purposes
 
MightbeaMimic said:
I think if we do start building more MARVs we shouldn't spend more than the minimum of Military dice on them. We have so much shit we need in Military, what with them wanting effectively an entire new generation of vehicles that I don't think we should use more dice than we have to on a project that is more useful for economic and abatement purposes than it is for military purposes
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I agree entirely. I don't really want to get the MARVs right now as we still have 6 STUs in the bank. when we get down to say 3 I'd like grab a couple of the Mediterranean MARVs(RZ1S, RZ3N, and RZ3S) via 2 mil dice and a bunch of Tib dice.
 
doruma1920 said:
I agree entirely. I don't really want to get the MARVs right now as we still have 6 STUs in the bank. when we get down to say 3 I'd like grab a couple of the Mediterranean MARVs(RZ1S, RZ3N, and RZ3S) via 2 mil dice and a bunch of Tib dice.
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Yeah, that sounds good to me. We don't actually need the MARVs until we need to either build more RZ inhibitors or we need more STUs
 
This also gives us a taste of what Nod's STU economy looks like.

Their low-efficiency refinery designs seem to be able to get +1 STU in exchange for sacrificing -20 RpT worth of other products made from tiberium.

And if we wanted to trade for STUs from the friendly Nod warlords directly, they were asking -80 RpT per unit.

Probably because they knew that in such a trade (as far as they knew at the time) they'd kind of have us over a barrel. "Charge what the traffic will bear" and all that. I'm not even mad, really; Nod has endemic poverty issues and their refinery tech can't mass-extract RpT-granting resources (such as steel, copper, and plastics) as readily as ours without producing a ton of horrific pollution or getting zorched by us from the air during and before Tib War III. We'd have effectively been paying Nod a huge premium to outsource the pollution of APK refineries into their territory rather than our own or (in the solution we've just discovered) into the Red Zones.
 
[X] Plan A Good Spread

This was my goal for Columbia anyways.

Also response post:

Ithillid said:
One of the benefits of operations in the Australian Red Zone is that the Brotherhood of Nod in the region has been utterly broken, the organization rendered down to fragmented cells armed with nothing heavier than VBIEDs. Although it would be foolish to believe that this means that local Nod forces lack sophistication, it does mean they lack in equipment, notably easing security requirements. Far more punishing is the environment. Water is a critical resource, one that, for most of the bases, has to be shipped in. Even with the Initiative's capacity to recycle water, using it again and again, there are substantial nonrecoverable losses with every day of operations. Maintaining the water supply is a significant risk and expense in this operation, as it puts a considerable demand on the supply lines that would otherwise be serviced with the base's own filters and processing. GDI's logistics arm is vast and mighty, but even it strains under the load, limiting the number of fronts and number of outposts that GDI can maintain in trying to push the line back.
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We might have options for improving this situation with Fortress Towns, Railroads and Green Zone Intensifications.

Ithillid said:
For the Brotherhood, a seventy year span of GDI air and orbital superiority has forced them to accept dirty, inefficient, and often extremely dangerous methods. A smaller amount of finished product, worse pollution contaminating the air and soil, and higher rates of industrial accidents inflicting casualties on the workers, are for most warlords and most territories simply the better option compared to the risk of ion or Firehawk strikes. On the lowest end of the spectrum are mobile refinery operations. A severely stripped down thing, a modern mobile refinery setup can be operational within an hour from a convoy of trucks, and be ready to move after shut down within two. While not always fast enough to short circuit GDI OODA loops and avoid strikes, it often is, and while they are far less efficient than GDI, or the facilities safe behind Brotherhood lines, they can operate in immediate proximity to the battlefield, and thereby substantially shorten Brotherhood operational logistics chains.
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What. No seriously what. I've lived trough the 1999 bombing campaign by NATO because of the Kosovo War and the genocide we Serbs were doing to the Albanians, it's more complicated than that, but that's not relevant to this thread and we Serbs were still the genocidal bad guys in the complicated version as well, and the idea that a prepared and willing army can be bombed into the stone age without cutting their supply lines is just ludicrous.

Then again this is NOD which, unless unified by Kane, isn't a prepared and willing army and is instead a set of Tiberium Feudal Fiefdoms.

Ithillid said:
It is the insides however, that are still unfinished. Most of the living quarters are bare, and the entire station is under-pressurized, with not enough air having been delivered this quarter to fully pressurize the station. While not insurmountably problematic – the air pressure being roughly the equivalent of two and a half kilometers above sea level – it has been unpleasant for many of the crew, not used to such thin atmospheres.
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Uh...does this autocomplete next turn?

Ithillid said:
[ ] Infantry Recon Support Drone Deployment
While the drones themselves are mostly made from off the shelf components, cheap, and simple to build at that, they still need dedicated space for production lines in light industrial districts, and integration into the military's procurement and logistics systems.
(Progress 245/160: 10 resources per die) (-1 Energy) (3 quarters to begin, 9 to complete) [88, 95]

The recon drones have begun initial production, and a few batches have even made their way out to the troops, where the drones have often been promptly massacred by the Brotherhood of Nod. While certainly not unexpected, infantry lasers being a fairly common occurrence at this point, or one of the dozens of other laser equipped platforms the Brotherhood of Nod fields, all being more than capable of hitting and killing these relatively small drones at a reasonable range, it does make them a very expendable form of reconnaissance.

"Fum?"
"Yeah?"
"Drone's dead."
"I know Sibo. It fell on my head."
"Imagine if you'd stuck your head up instead."
"No thanks, I like living more than 3 seconds."
  • [Recording of two Zone Troopers on the West African front discussing the results of the recon drone they just deployed]
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Is this a pop culture reference? And is it from the Western popular culture? Or from West African popular culture?

Rakuhn said:
[X] Plan Evacuation Prep
A bit of an addendum to my thought above, it might be worthwhile to complete Tarberries next turn to see if they'll improve our DAE. More Energy without Labor cost is becoming far more important.

Another option is several dice in Red Zone Energy Refits, or waiting for our improved Liq T tech to proc.
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We already are getting +5 Energy instead of +4 from DAE.

Daniel14541 said:
Too bad they only provide low quality housing then. We don't need more low quality housing. We have 60+ point of low quality housing already!
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Fortress Towns are not going to be built for the housing, but for the logistical and military infrastructure they are and that they enable.
 
Dmol8 said:
We might have options for improving this situation with Fortress Towns, Railroads and Green Zone Intensifications.
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Uh...does this autocomplete next turn?
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We already are getting +5 Energy instead of +4 from DAE.
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First: For note: Green Zone Intensification is gone, partially because we've run out of Green Zone.

Second: No. There's still over 50 progress to go, and usually there's only even a chance of autocompletion if there's a crit or something else which reduces the progress remaining to less than 15.

Third: The improvement to DAE was from completing Alloys Phase 5, not tarberries.
 
bigking321 said:
Huh. I didn't notice DAE going to five. That's great.

Did any other sub departments get increases or just that one?
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Just that one. It was the only one in a position where a cumulative -25% bonus to construction costs might move the needle enough to matter.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Bureau of Arcologies is managing +1.2 High Quality Housing per turn instead of +1, but for the sake of Ithillid's sanity we generally don't track such things and rightly so.
 
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Vote closed
  • Voting
    • Scheduled vote count started by Ithillid on Jun 2, 2023 at 8:34 PM, finished with 174 posts and 75 votes.
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  • Voting
    • Technically RZ MARV spam gives us 22 RZ Mitigation from all the RZ MARVs, but that would cost something like 34-35 dice (the minimal RZ mitigation strategy would take ~16). We do have enough extra space in Military and Tiberium to do it, but I don't think that is wise mostly because the other methods will give us more RpT which we need for other Plan Goals.
     
    We also have an income goal we need to hit and with RZ marvs dropping to 5RPT that is not going to help us. Worse Vein mines likely stressing some deployment forces thanks to that nat 1 shuts off that as an income route without overstressing ZOCOM. I am not going to like it but we might need to do another deep glacier. Or the last phase of U Alloy and see what sort of income boost that provides.
     
    HousePet said:
    I'm half asleep, but I think we need the Containment Lines to meet our Abatement goal.
    Happy to do both though.
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    MARV spam would be a viable alternative to the Lines, but we'd get less RpT payoff and have to spend more dice. Both of those are problematic, because we don't have unlimited Tiberium dice.

    Also, many of the STU-using projects actually consume Labor, and we're very tight for Labor right now.

    Void Stalker said:
    We also have an income goal we need to hit and with RZ marvs dropping to 5RPT that is not going to help us. Worse Vein mines likely stressing some deployment forces thanks to that nat 1 shuts off that as an income route without overstressing ZOCOM. I am not going to like it but we might need to do another deep glacier. Or the last phase of U Alloy and see what sort of income boost that provides.
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    Vein mines don't result in further ZOCOM stress because they're operating in our rear areas where conventional abatement crews (only lightly defended against Nod terrorist attacks) are handling most of the problems.

    ZOCOM stress becomes more of an issue if we're actually prevented from doing further vein mining at all, and maybe that's what you meant and I misunderstood you.

    The good news is, U-Series Alloys Phase 6 is now less of a problem for the STUs it consumes, since we now have a realistic plan to increase our supply of those relatively quickly.
     
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