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Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

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BoSPaladin said:
DAE stands for Department of Alternate Energy. That generally means solar, wind, hydroelectric power. There's only so many places suitable for large large stretches of Solar panels that gets enough light, only certain areas which regularly get enough wind consistently, only so many rivers to dam.

It would be very nice to unlock more areas for that. But, it wouldn't surprise me if DAE is as good as it gets. Or, alternately, if we want better DAE we may need to build up far more cap goods production so that we can build more of our heavier fusion plants and other stoof.
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It also does fission plants, energy storage, etc.

Basically, it's doing everything that isn't fusion power but can be useful as small scale but deployed in large numbers grid hardening stuff.
 
Hey @Ithillid are we going to get a Venice planned city down the line for better management of the Mediterranean?
 
I have a stooopid proposal to make. We will alledgedly need to construct Columbia II and Shala II before we can start moon cities, but who is to say we can't build them in orbit of the moon, hmmm? Given the moon is too potatoe shaped for stable orbits too close to its surface, but I think its still an idea worth considering.
 
Do we have a Shala II incoming? I was under the impression that Shala produces way more food than we are likely to need in orbit for quite a while. If that is the case, then it would be a bit wasteful to build a second one in the short term.
 
I thought Shala was self supporting at best? It's not support to feed the people living in orbit, it's supposed to give us an idea of what we'll need to build to feed the people in orbit.
 
Nottheunmaker said:
I thought Shala was self supporting at best? It's not support to feed the people living in orbit, it's supposed to give us an idea of what we'll need to build to feed the people in orbit.
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The direct ithillid quotes from discord are "When it comes to food production, base Shala makes more than enough for everyone for even the biggest goal." and "Shala is able to feed a small fuckton", as seen below:



(Also, just from a mechanical perspective, a fully completed Shala provides +15 food and +7 consumer foods before bays, which is approximately equal to 2 phases of Vertical Farms plus a phase of Aquaponics Bays. I wouldn't be surprised if we were shipping food back down to Earth from Shala, if anything.)
 
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We have the Fusion Yard, so that might be possible. But I suspect that the distance between Earth orbit and the Moon is too far.
A Lunar city needs to be much more independent than an Earth orbit station.
In the short term, it would be much cheaper to build more stuff in Earth orbit.
 
For purposes of launching from Earth, lunar orbit is much less convenient because it takes a lot longer to get there. For purposes of launching from the moon, lunar orbit takes less time to get there, but nothing we now have on the moon is capable of providing the stations with anything that would be time-critical anyway, because the moon's sole export is piles of rocks.

There's no obvious upside except "farther out of range of notional Nod surface-to-space weapons."
 
Ithillid said:
ZOCOM still feels overstretched, and while their work is critically important, and substantially being supported by the Ground Forces Zone Armor program and technological upgrades, it is some of the hardest work GDI does. While it can continue the offensives into the Red Zones, there are still noticeable limits on what it can do.
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I worry about how we even can further support ZOCOM. Zrbite phase 2 is really expensive, and we've already done enough Zone Armor programs that more won't help ZOCOM. Maybe we should do the Infantry Recon Drones. Even if they don't seem super impactful, they're still a cheap and fast way to give them something helpful.
[ ] Postwar Housing Refits (Phase 1)
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I can't say I expected it to work this way, but it's obvious in hindsight. We're building +3 HQ Housing, but we're on net moving 2 Housing worth of people elsewhere without any HQ housing to give to them. There's really no way out of this than to just see it through, though. We can't leave this project half-finished now that we've started it.
[ ] Rail Network Construction Campaigns (Phase 5)
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Disappointingly, it doesn't seem like another phase of this will help our future RZ and glacier mining. But a Trans-American railroad would be really cool, if we abate enough RZ to make it happen.
[ ] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment

One thing that GDI has discovered is that the first generation of the inhibitors was actually marginally counterproductive. A Tiberium Accelerator has a threefold function. First, speeding the growth of Tiberium. Second, drawing subsurface Tiberium towards it. Third, they actually offer some degree of manual control over where the Tiberium spreads. By essentially plugging the thing in backwards, while it does mean that Tiberium growth was slowed, it also pushed it away, primarily down into the ground. While not a difficult thing to fix, and solutions are already in place, it is a noticeable flaw in GDI's attempts to make use of Visitor technology to combat the threat of Tiberium.
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I wonder what these solutions are? Anyways, this is yet more reason to do more Tiberium Spike research. If we can control the 2nd and 3rd functions properly, we can increase the tiberium harvested and reduce tiberium growth at the same time. Even just a way to direct where tiberium grows could be very useful in our abatement efforts all over. (Of course, we should only put one die a turn into it, just to be safe.)
[ ] Red Zone Border Offensives (Stage 4)
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This worries me. Just three dice is still described as a great struggle for ZOCOM. The deep red zone is seriously super dangerous. I don't want to put more than four dice into deep red projects next turn, because we very much can overwhelm ZOCOM again, and that wouldn't be good at all.
[ ] Transfer Funding to InOps
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DAGger teams seem like a direct answer to all the assassinations we keep getting hit by. I'm really happy to see this, and I wonder what other goodies will come out of the InOps pinata if we hit them with more funding.
[ ] Hand Off Capital Goods to Market

However, much of this first batch of capital goods is likely to get snapped up by a relatively small handful of large cooperatives, who are approaching the Initiative with an ambitious program of construction, expansions, and essentially bootstrapping to build their own technology base, and begin providing enough capital goods to begin selling back to the Initiative.
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+CGs from private industry would be very, very helpful. Even if it's just +1 CG per turn, if it doesn't take us a die to activate that makes it super worth whatever it'll cost.
 
Derpmind said:
I worry about how we even can further support ZOCOM. Zrbite phase 2 is really expensive, and we've already done enough Zone Armor programs that more won't help ZOCOM. Maybe we should do the Infantry Recon Drones. Even if they don't seem super impactful, they're still a cheap and fast way to give them something helpful.
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I'm guessing they need some of the following: repulsorplates for vehicles, apc updates that can fit zone armor (and possibly hospital vehicle updates from earlier in the quest), more zrbite weapons (like you mentioned), more recovery time or less simultaneous RZ operations, maybe the drones (given the mentions that RZ landscape likes to change around them), maybe tiberium aeva (for narrative benefits), and unmanned support vehicles.

Maybe a combo of the factory prototype and more RZ marvs too, for better just in time logistics.

Hmm, maybe even ECCM improvements could carry over somewhat to the awful signal environment caused by tiberium?
 
Derpmind said:
I can't say I expected it to work this way, but it's obvious in hindsight. We're building +3 HQ Housing, but we're on net moving 2 Housing worth of people elsewhere without any HQ housing to give to them. There's really no way out of this than to just see it through, though. We can't leave this project half-finished now that we've started it.
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Personally I'm coming around to the idea of building a phase of Arcologies.

We currently have 5 dice per turn * 9 turns = 45 Infrastructure dice over the remainder of the plan.
We are committed to doing:
-Post War Housing Refits 114/485? Progress: ~5 dice
-Karachi 0/1610? Progress, half of which probably should be done with infrastructure: ~9 dice

We probably ought to do:
-Suborbital Shuttle Service 159/380? Progress: ~3 dice (for both mechanical reasons for the high efficiency Logistics and for narrative reasons of getting a bunch of secure high alt transports)
That leaves ~28 dice remaining in Infrastructure.

The remaining projects there are:
-Blue Zone Arcologies (~6 dice per phase, one phase visible text indicates future phases likely)
-Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (~5 dice for both visible phases, text indicates these are the last two phases and will likely unlock a new project for 'future bands of defensive fortifications')
-Emergency Caloric Reclamation Processor Installations (~1 die, only phase, PS hit, food security)

Realistically we may also see future Planned cities post Karachi but even if we finish both the YZ fortresses and the ECRP that would still leave us with about 22 dice in infrastructure. Thats enough for a whole other Planned city alone, without factoring in the dice from another sector, and if Adelaide is an STU producer we may need it. Alternativly, thats enough for 3-4 phases of Arcologies.

So we could realistically afford to build a phase of Arcologies to reduce any social tension caused by the Housing Refits.
 
Derpmind said:
I worry about how we even can further support ZOCOM. Zrbite phase 2 is really expensive, and we've already done enough Zone Armor programs that more won't help ZOCOM. Maybe we should do the Infantry Recon Drones. Even if they don't seem super impactful, they're still a cheap and fast way to give them something helpful.
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Actually, IIRC ZOCOM was wanting to pivot into being Deep Red specialists. So the more we get GF zone armored, the less need there is for ZOCOM in non-Deep Red operations. So more GFZA factories means GF can expand their operations more, to the point of taking over Shallow Red operations from ZOCOM. How soon we might get to that point, I have no idea though. The desire to hand of Shallow Red ops to GF might be why ZOCOM's annoyed that GF is using them as (anti-)breakthrough forces in conventional fights instead.

I believe ZOCOM is making use of the ZEMEV (the hover ambulance) developed off gen 1 repulsor plates (which leads to a problem of generally losing more suits than people, and running low on the armor during operations). Gen 2 plates might allow for a Mk 2 and possibly a hover APC in general for them.

This worries me. Just three dice is still described as a great struggle for ZOCOM. The deep red zone is seriously super dangerous. I don't want to put more than four dice into deep red projects next turn, because we very much can overwhelm ZOCOM again, and that wouldn't be good at all.
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I feel like 1D on RZBO should probably finish that, and then we can work on BZ Inhibitors, IHG stuff, Secure YZ, etc with the rest of the dice next turn or two. Give ZOCOM a breather.

doruma1920 said:
Realistically we may also see future Planned cities post Karachi but even if we finish both the YZ fortresses and the ECRP that would still leave us with about 22 dice in infrastructure. Thats enough for a whole other Planned city alone, without factoring in the dice from another sector, and if Adelaide is an STU producer we may need it. Alternatively, that's enough for 3-4 phases of Arcologies.
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Adelaide was the shipyard city. The STU producing city was going to be over on the Amazon away from civilians with any toxic waste created in the process of pumping STUs out. IIRC.

--

Speaking of Deep Red, any chance we could get a map that shows where Deep Red is approx located in the Red Zones? Not as something regularly updated like the results maps, but a kinda one-shot "here be dragons" info map (in the vein of the MARV hub location map). Or is it a case that GDI isn't entirely sure where Deep Red is until they, uh, encounter it, beyond it being at least x kilometers into a RZ?
 
doruma1920 said:
Personally I'm coming around to the idea of building a phase of Arcologies.
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We have 13 pop in non HQ housing as of the results, we will get 9 points of HQ housing from refits and we also get 1 per turn. So 4 turns plus refits puts everyone in HQ housing. We probably want to do only 1 phase of housing a turn so that some of the displacement moves into other HQ housing (or if we do it over two turns all the pop moves into HQ housing).

Derpmind said:
I worry about how we even can further support ZOCOM. Zrbite phase 2 is really expensive, and we've already done enough Zone Armor programs that more won't help ZOCOM. Maybe we should do the Infantry Recon Drones. Even if they don't seem super impactful, they're still a cheap and fast way to give them something helpful.
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Sticking to 1 border zone offensive a turn and skipping on glaciers will probably help some though looking for more options is always useful. Also there should be some boost over time as more ground armor formations relive ZOCOM deployed in non red zone areas.


Edit
Proto Plan Revision
1135/1225 (90 rollover, bureau dice could provide 1 or 2 AA dice to drop this)

[] Proto Plan
Infra 5/5 105R +27
-[] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 7) 93/260 1 die 20R 0%
-[] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 2+3) 159/380 3 dice 75R 70%
-[] Postwar Housing Refits (Phase 1) 114/160 1 die 10R 97%
HI 5/5+3 free 260R +34
-[] U Series Alloy Foundries (Phase 5) 136/485 5 dice 200R 91%
-[] Second Generation Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 2) 263/305 3 dice 60R 100%, 11% for Phase 3
LCI 4/4 90R +29
-[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 5) 883/1100 3 dice 60R 76%
-[] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 4) 235/640 1 die 30R
Agri 6/6 30R +29
-[] Reforestation Campaign Preparations (Phase 1) 252/815 6 dice 30R 16%
Tiberium 7/7 200R +39
-[] Red Zone Border Offensives (Stage 5) 158/210 1 die 25R 100%
-[] Improved Hewlett Gardener Refits (Phase 2) 65/220 2 dice 70R 82%
-[] Enhanced Harvest Tiberium Spikes 0/180 1 die 20R 0%
-[] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment (Blue Zone 4 Southeast Arabia) 52/85 1 die 30R 100%
-[] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment (Blue Zone 9 East Australia) 59/85 1 die 30R 100%
-[] Coordinated Abatement Programs (Phase 1) 82/190 1 die 25R 47%
Orbital 7/7+1 free 180R +34
-[] GDSS Columbia (Phase 5) 643/1030 4 dice 80R 41%
-[] GDSS Shala (Phase 4) 486/520 4 dice+ Erewhon 100R 100%
Services 4/4 90R +35
-[] Regional Hospital Expansions (Phase 2) 85/275 3 dice 75R 95%
-[] University Program Updates 137/250 1 die 15R 38%
Military 7/7+2 free 180R +31
-[] Strategic Area Defense Networks (Phase 4) 125/365 3 dice 60R 65%
-[] Orca Wingmen Drone Deployment (Phase 2) 56/230 2 dice 40R 54%
-[] Shark Class Frigate Shipyards (Seattle) 0/240 3 dice 60R 65%
-[] Unmanned Support Ground Vehicle Development 0/80 1 die 20R 72%
Bureau 4/4 +29 0R
-[] ????

Free 6/6
3HI, 1 Orbital, 2 Mil

Right so some revised thoughts- 1 dice on postwar housing as we dont want to rush that, instead doing one phase over 2 turns allows us to move all the pop into HQ (+2 from arcology department and +3 from the refits), we also have the ability and funds to finish suborbital so knock that out, and for the last dice start working on YZ fortress towns to solidfy our borders and open up GZ harvesting if we want to pursue that as a low income and YZ mit source in the future.

For HI- finish phase 5 of the alloy and knock out a phase of new fusion plants which covers energy expenditure this turn and means we keep a reserve of energy in case we shift dice or have demand spikes in the future and also means we are not going to run into issues with taking 1st gen plants offline.

For LCI finish Reykjavik and start on Bergen since we have the funding for it, Reykjavik is a plan goal and a nice boost of cap goods and energy.

Agri- working on getting at least 1 phase of reforest prep done before elections, we have a small chance to finish it this turn, either way this sets us up well to try and finish the goal to have 2 phases done by the end of next year which means we are not leaving a plan goal to the last minute like the last 4 year plan.

Tib- 1 dice on border offensive to avoid stressing zocom while also progressing a plan goal, 2 dice to work on the refit plan goal (which we have 10 turns to get 6 phases down so lets roll that out over time), plus each phase improves our STU production. Finish the 2 Tib inhibitor deployment, keep coordinated abatement rolling and look into Enhanced Harvest Tib Spikes in case we can get any potential mitigation out of them perhaps for underground tib given the text of the inhibitors in the most recent results.

Orbital- We need both stations done to unlock followup stations and so full speed ahead to make sure we do not miss the plan goal, which we are getting close to halfway through the plan and are less than 25% done with the goal.

Services- Finish a plan goal and work on a labor improvement.

Mil- Try and knock out phase 4 of SADN, make a push on the Orca (plan goal) and Shark yard (last one and useful for freeing up Naval assets for Karachi) while knocking out another plan goal with a steel talon dev project.

Bureau- Need to see what new options show up as there is a lot of potential routes, we also have the free R to grab one or two AA dice.


Current Economic Issues:
Housing: +73 (13 population in low quality housing) (+1 high-quality housing per turn) (-2 housing, +3 HQ housing, +1 HQ per turn goes to 72, 9 pop in lq housing)
Energy: +20 (+5 in reserve) (-4 U Series Alloy, +19 2nd Gen Fusion, +4 Reykjavik, +2 RZ Border Offensive, -6 2 Tib Inhibitors, -1 Regional Hospital, chance for -3 from Orca, Chance for -6 from Shark yard, -2 SADN -22 from projects, +25 from projects
Logistics: +21 (-2 from military activity) (+13 suborbital shuttles)
Food: +24 (+24 backed reserve, +5 unbacked reserve) (Perennials: +1 on Q4 2063)
Health: +23 (-8 from refugees)
Capital Goods: +17 (+2 per turn from Distributed Industrial Authority) (+279 in reserve) (+8 Reykjavik, -1 Regional Hospital, chance of -1 University Program Update , chance for -1 from Orca, chance for -2 from shark yard
STUs: +6 (-1 U Series Alloy, +? from income and 1 stage of refits, -1 SADN)
Consumer Goods: +226 (+5 per turn from Private Industry) (+3 per turn from sub-departments) (+2 per turn from perennials. -1 per turn Q1 2064) (Net +9 per turn)
Labor: +29 (+3 per turn from medical care) (+2 per turn from Immigrant qualifications) (-3 per turn from private industry) (-1 per turn from other government) (Net +1) (-1 2nd Gen Fusion, -1 from Regional Hospital, chance for -1 from Orca
Tiberium‌ ‌Processing‌ ‌Capacity‌ ‌(2710/3800)‌ ‌(900 IHG)
Tiberium Reserve (0/500)
Taxation Per Turn: +120 (+15 per turn from Private Industry)
Space Mining Per Turn: +100
Maintenance Reductions: +50
Green Zone Water: +5

Plan Goals
Provide 33 Consumer Goods points from the Treasury (+2 from Shala)
Provide 3 Consumer Goods from Agriculture (+2 from Shala)
Increase Income by 550 (+15 to 35 RZ border offensive)
Increase Tiberium Processing limit by 470
Increase population in space by 17.15k (41% for 2k from Columbia, .3k from Shala)
Provide 25 Points of Red Zone Abatement (3 RZ border offensive, 47% for 2 from Coordinated Abatement)
Spend at least one die on Steel Talons projects every turn Fulfilled this turn

Projects

Complete Karachi Planned City by end of 2065
Deploy Orca Wingman Drones by end of 2065 (54% to finish this turn)
Complete North Boston Phase 5
Develop and deploy Governor-A refit
Complete at least 2 Blue Zone Inhibitors by end of 2065 (both should finish this turn)
Complete 1 of Nuuk, Reykjavik, Bergen (Reykjavik should finish this turn)
Complete all phases of Red Zone Border Offensives before 2064 (1 phase finishes this turn, ? to go)
Complete SADN Phase 4 (65% to finish)
Complete at least 4 Ground Forces Zone Armor factories
Complete all of the following projects:
Transorbital Fighter Development or follow on heavy ship development and Unmanned Support Ground Vehicle Development (USGV Dev should finish this turn)
Complete 2 phases of Reforestation Campaign Preparation (small chance of Phase 1 finishing )
Develop both Next Generation Armored and Support Vehicles by end of 2065
Complete Regional Hospital Expansions by end of 2065 (Finishes this turn)
Complete Coordinated Abatement by end of 2065 (chance of phase 1 finishing)
Complete Post War Housing Refits (Phase 1 finishes this turn, 2 more to go)

Promises to Litvinov:
Do not activate Free Dice (except for Tiberium) unless all Department Dice are active. Fulfilled
Spend no more than two free dice per turn on Military. Fulfilled
Activate Refit Department
Hand off at least 10 more points of Capital Goods to market over the course of the plan.
Complete Improved Hewlett Gardener Refits before end of plan (2nd of 7 to finish)
 
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Derpmind said:
I can't say I expected it to work this way, but it's obvious in hindsight. We're building +3 HQ Housing, but we're on net moving 2 Housing worth of people elsewhere without any HQ housing to give to them. There's really no way out of this than to just see it through, though. We can't leave this project half-finished now that we've started it.
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Well, we could slow-walk it while building a phase of arcologies on the side or something. That'd cut the impact back. And honestly, doing it slower might actually help mitigate the effects, because we wouldn't have nearly as many people being displaced.

This worries me. Just three dice is still described as a great struggle for ZOCOM. The deep red zone is seriously super dangerous. I don't want to put more than four dice into deep red projects next turn, because we very much can overwhelm ZOCOM again, and that wouldn't be good at all.
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I'm willing to dial it back to just enough to finish the border offensives and then be slower about doing the glacier mines, personally.

Derpmind said:
As Void Stalker points out above, by the time we're done with the Housing Refits, we won't have any population in LQ Housing left. And the Bureau of Arcologies is going to keep building arcology-type housing for the people who want it.
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Well, it'd be a way to do something for the grumblers.
 
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